Reality

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

Below is a very realistic team for next year. I have rounded a bit, so these numbers are not exact.

The salary cap this year is $56.7 million, and I have it staying exactly the same... though it might actually go down.

There is a very good chance Hossa, Franzen and Hudler could all be gone next year. Hossa is guaranteed to be gone. Holland has shown he is reluctant to trade away recently signed players (meaning Filppula and Lilja will probably stay), and guys like Cleary, Stuart and Rafalski (where posters will often attempt to save money) have no-trade clauses. If Babcock is asked whom he would prefer, I am sure he would pick Sammy over Hudler ten out of ten times.

7.45 Zetterberg

6.70 Datsyuk

3.00 Filppula

3.00 Samuelsson

2.80 Cleary

2.25 Holmstrom

1.60 Draper

0.90 Maltby

0.90 Abdelkader

0.80 Kopecky

0.60 Helm

0.50 McCarty/Downey

30.50

7.45 Lidstrom

6.00 Rafalski

3.75 Stuart

3.00 Kronwall

1.25 Lilja

0.90 Eriksson

0.65 Lebda/Chelios

0.50 Meech/Chelios

23.50

1.40 Osgood

0.70 Howard/Conklin

2.10

$56.1 million = 2009/10 Salary

Not a bad team, but far from what it is this year.

I would prefer to see him trade Filppula and let Sammy go in order to keep Franzen (and sign Leino), but I just have my doubts that would happen. Holland is more likely to let a free agent go than to trade a recently signed player.

I have actually been playing with this a little bit as well. It is kind of scary, and sad. It's almost too bad Lids signed a two year deal. That last year is really complicating the salary cap.

Here is my rough draft:

7.0 Zetterberg

6.7 Datsyuk

4.0 Mule

3.0 Flip

2.8 Cleary

2.25 Homer

1.6 Draper

1.5 Sammy

1.0 Leino

0.88 Matlby

0.75 Abdel

0.6 Helm

0.5 Downey/McCarty

32.58 mill

7.45 Lids

6.0 Raffie

3.75 Stuart

3.0 Kronwall

1.25 Lilja

0.9 Ericcson

0.65 Lebda

23 mill

1.42 Ozzie

.72 Howard

2.14 mill

total = 57.72

Now obviously that is a problem being over. I think some front-loading of deals could solve that and bring down some average cap hits. Maybe someone takes a one year deal so that we can pay them more after Lids retires. That would be a gamble for the player, but it could happen. Meech would have to be moved. I think we take draft pick compensation for Kopy and Huds. Wave bye to Hossa as he heads to Vancouver with Gabby.

Edited December 18, 2008 by South Dakota wings fan

[egroen 384]

Now obviously that is a problem being over. I think some front-loading of deals could solve that and bring down some average cap hits. Maybe someone takes a one year deal so that we can pay them more after Lids retires. That would be a gamble for the player, but it could happen. Meech would have to be moved. I think we take draft pick compensation for Kopy and Huds. Wave bye to Hossa as he heads to Vancouver with Gabby.

Yeah, Lidstrom on a year-to-year contract would be awful handy right now.

If Babcock got creative with Zetterberg and Franzen and tried front-loading them he might be able to get them down to those numbers. The risk is they have to be pretty long term to really give a cap benefit.

$1.5 is an absolute steal for Samuelsson, as he could get over $3 million as a free agent. I'd love to see one of Hudler or Sammy take a deal like that.

I am flat out in favor of trading Filppula for that $3 million per year relief.

[Opie 308]

How many times do I need to tell you... Sammy is not getting 3 million on this team. Holland, thankfully, isn't that ******* stupid. Sammy's not worth it.

I'm not convinced that there is ANY GM out there that stupid, but then again, Dallas did sign Avery for an obscene amount.

First off I agree 100% that Sammy does not get 3 mil in Detroit but you are playing ignorant or are blind to the happenings this offseason if you think he cannot get 3 mil. OR it is the whipping boy phenomenon striking again.

Maybe due to new economic situations things are different, but come on man, some one gave Jeff Finger 3 mil.

Slava Kozlov gets over 3 mil a year (with an average of 10 points less a year than Sammy)

Marco Sturm 3.5 mil and except for one season is pretty much on par with Sammy points wise.

Michael Ryder, who had 2 50 point seasons followed by 2 30 point seasons makes 4 mil.

Chuck Kobasew at 2.5 mil.

Kyle Calder make 2.7 mil.

I am not saying he will get 3 mil on the wings but you are being naive if you think he won't get 3 mil from some one else. He may be a product of the system but he produces. More so than Calder or Kobasew and they make 2x as much as him currently.

Look at what Edmonton threw at Penner, he could turn out to be the next Bertuzzi (I hope he does I like the kid, Maine product and all), but he could also turn out to be one hell of an expensive 3rd line checker.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Opie

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

the only reason i would be ok with letting filppula go is that it would make more than enough cap room to bring up helm and leino...which when cuts were made prior to the season starting babs said they were the 2 best players he's ever sent to the minors. what would filppula haul in for a trade though??

[Opie 308]

the only reason i would be ok with letting filppula go is that it would make more than enough cap room to bring up helm and leino...which when cuts were made prior to the season starting babs said they were the 2 best players he's ever sent to the minors. what would filppula haul in for a trade though??

Well if you are doing the trade to free up space for Helm and Leino, you don't want much in return, draft picks maybe a prospect. But if you are trying to cut cap to make room for a player, you don't want a more expensive or even remotely close to as expensive player in return.

Having said that he was the 2nd line center on the Stanley Cup champs from last year, he is proving he is an all around player who needs to polish off his game. He would command a decent return on the open market, but I don't see it happening.

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

i agree with you opie and i don't even want flip to leave...but lots of people on this site think he's quite expendable. that being said, i would let sammy, kopecky and lebda go, and have malts and cheli retire after this year and replace those guys with leino, helm, abdelkader, ericsson and kindl/pyett. there's some money saved... sign huds and franzen as well as the obvious zetterberg while retaining flip. you got a young team that's fast as hell, and possibly some cap space leftover. and the wings don't have to let more of thir prospects go like mr. quincey... as for goaltending, bring up either howard or larsson. with the other forwards up in the nhl it would give mcgrath and emmerton extra duties on grand rapids and finish developing them for the nhl. we've seen enough of the wings good prospects go in the past few years for floaters like lang and bertuzzi. matthias and fleishmann are both capable players...

[Opie 308]

i agree with you opie and i don't even want flip to leave...but lots of people on this site think he's quite expendable. that being said, i would let sammy, kopecky and lebda go, and have malts and cheli retire after this year and replace those guys with leino, helm, abdelkader, ericsson and kindl/pyett. there's some money saved... sign huds and franzen as well as the obvious zetterberg while retaining flip. you got a young team that's fast as hell, and possibly some cap space leftover. and the wings don't have to let more of thir prospects go like mr. quincey... as for goaltending, bring up either howard or larsson. with the other forwards up in the nhl it would give mcgrath and emmerton extra duties on grand rapids and finish developing them for the nhl. we've seen enough of the wings good prospects go in the past few years for floaters like lang and bertuzzi. matthias and fleishmann are both capable players...

Wow that is one of the most well thought out and worded replies to one of my posts in a long ass time!

I agree with you, the only things is I am a little greedy now and I want Hossa back. I know it is a foregone conclusion that he is gone next year, but maybe he and Z pull a Jeff Gordon (different he is part owner of the team and gets paid based off of team success) and take less money to help the team out. Who knows?

I said at the start of the season Sammy is expendable due to the maturation of Hudler Flip and Franzen, and I have been a staunch Sammy supporter on these boards, Kopecky I believe his knee is keeping him from being what he was at the end of the season.

I am really looking forward to seeing the young guys coming up soon.

My post was more of my opinion of an answer to your question not the answer or telling you what to think. Just thought I would throw my answer out there!

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

just imagine that team with hossa...

[puckbags 863]

The day Ken Holland gives Samuelsson 3mil I become a Leafs fan. Filppula getting 3mil a year is overpayment because he will gradually become worth more than the deal. Samuelsson has reached his ceiling and I think that given he's getting 1.2mil now the MAX he should get is 2mil. Make no mistake, he's playing great now... but he's not worth 3mil. Then again, I don't think Cleary is worth 2.8mil either... but his injuries have served as an excuse for now.

Why doesn't Sammy deserve 3 million? He's on pace for almost 60pts, he kills penalties, plays the pp, is good defensively. I bet if you look around the league at some other 3 million dollar players alot of gm's would gladly take Sammy over what they have now. Take the Sammy hate blinders off for a sec and do some evaluation.

[Slave 31]

quick question.. roster has to be 22 players? we dress 12 forwards, 2 goalies and 6 d each game... we have 2 guys in the pressbox usually? or just 1, i thought we just had 1 guy sitting in the box..usually meech. that would give us 21 players against the cap at all times? or we always paying 22 against the cap?

[Opie 308]

Right now in the box I believe are Cheli and Meech. But I am sure some one with their finger closer to the pulse can answer for certain.

The GDT will give you an idea.

Edit: Just checked the GDT, Cheli and Meech are the scratches.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Opie

[Slave 31]

kk thanks, and damn then my attempt at the roster for next year is .4 over the cap

it does include huds/z/franzen and leino though

[egroen 384]

Holland is NOT going to offer Sammy 3 million! Will another team be reckless enough to offer Sammy $3 mil? Probably, lots of dumb GMs out there. However, with the economy being as weak as it is, some GMs might actually *think* about their offers before being reckless.

I think it's ignorant to think Holland would offer Sammy 3 million per year. It's not gonna happen.

Your insults have been entertaining, but I am still waiting for your full roster....

[eva unit zero 271]

Holland is NOT going to offer Sammy 3 million! Will another team be reckless enough to offer Sammy $3 mil? Probably, lots of dumb GMs out there. However, with the economy being as weak as it is, some GMs might actually *think* about their offers before being reckless.

I think it's ignorant to think Holland would offer Sammy 3 million per year. It's not gonna happen.

I think you are ignorant given that the entire post you replied to was about how Holland was NOT going to pay Samuelsson that much but someone might.

[egroen 384]

I'm sorry that you feel insulted. Need a tissue?

Why does the full roster need to only be Red Wings and Grffins players only? You think Holland won't go outside of the network for the 09-10 roster? I can't predict the entire roster, just as you or anyone else can predict next years roster... I am, however, predicting that Holland won't be paying Sammy 3 million and I'm also willing to bet that Zetterberg's contract will look closer to Datsyuk contract. Even that isn't a certainty considering the bad economy. Lastly, do you know the 2010 cap yet? If so, mind sharing that information, it'd be helpful.

I hope this post didn't insult you or hurt your feelings.

Okeedokee... that was certainly a roundabout way of saying you can't put together a feasible roster.

Either way, I'm confident that Franzen, Zets and Hudler will be resigned.

You are the one who came into this thread huffing and puffing that you could do it... are you admitting to failure?

It's ok, we all make mistakes from time to time.

If Holland cares about Babcock's opinion at all, who do you think the Wings will sign - Samuelsson or Hudler?

I hope it is Hudler, but I have a feeling I am wrong... and you probably lose both of them if Franzen is somehow signed.

Your backpedaling would be embarrasing if you had the intelligence to recognize it.

And here's my prediction: the cap in 2010 will be no higher than it is now.

[eva unit zero 271]

If you are right and Holland does give Sammy $3 million, I'll eat crow. However, if Holland doesn't do what you think and doesn't sign Sammy for $3 million (like you hope he will do) will you eat crow?

I've been a hockey fan long enough to know that some/other GMs overpay players way too much... Holland has been a much smarter and conscious GM. Look at his track record. Marty Lapointe comes to mind.

I must be the minority here that thinks $3 million is too much for Sammy. To each of their own. We'll soon see how bad Holland wants Sammy

Are you even reading the posts you are replying to?

[egroen 384]

If you are right and Holland does give Sammy $3 million, I'll eat crow. However, if Holland doesn't do what you think and doesn't sign Sammy for $3 million (like you hope he will do) will you eat crow?

I've been a hockey fan long enough to know that some/other GMs overpay players way too much... Holland has been a much smarter and conscious GM. Look at his track record. Marty Lapointe comes to mind.

I must be the minority here that thinks $3 million is too much for Sammy. To each of their own. We'll soon see how bad Holland wants Sammy

How do you feel about Holland paying $2.8 million for Cleary along with a no-trade clause? Obviously you must think he is f_cking idiot right? Because Samuelsson has outperformed him... and Samuelsson is worth nowhere near that, right?

Edited December 19, 2008 by egroen

[eva unit zero 271]

As much as you read the post that you reply to. Now stop deflecting and answer the question. Will you eat crow? Trust me, I won't forget and will call you out on it when it happens.

I think Samuelsson will sign between $1.5m and $2m. I think he could command between $3-$4 as a UFA given the fact that about the only thing he can't do well is take faceoffs, but he will sign with the Wings before the end of the season.

[eva unit zero 271]

Then you and I agree. My initial thought was Holland would sign him for 1.75.

He actually read a post before replying! Wow!

[Opie 308]

Then you and I agree. My initial thought was Holland would sign him for 1.75.

Pay very careful attention,

The whole time you have been arguing and asking people to eat crow if Holland doesn't sign Sammy for 3 mil? Right?

However my first post you replied to was me saying Holland wouldn't sign him for 3 mil, BUT THAT SOME ONE ELSE WOULD!.

Then Eva tried to point that out to you, and you asked him if he would eat crow if Sammy signed for under 3 mil.

Let me explain the eating crow thing to you, that means that I (or Eva or egroen) would have had to disagreed with you at first. WE DIDN'T. We have all been saying the same thing, that Holland would be able to get Sammy at under 3 and other clubs he would go for 3+.

Your reading comprehension needs a little work.

[Opie 308]

Pay very careful attention, here is the OP (have posted it below for you), and you may go back to the first page and check and recheck and ask yourself again "Who's reading comprehension needs a little work" Lol.

I won't point out your condescending posts, Opie.

Lastly, Let's try to keep the thread on topic. Though, I see no reason to have 4 pages of a fantasy line that won't happen anyhow, it's still only polite for readers of LGW to not have to sort through off topic pissing matches.

Happy Holidays.

You quoted me and then said that Holland would not pay Sammy 3 mil. I am supposed to infer from you quoting my post that you are referring to the OP???????

Really, good job keep digging the hole deeper and deeper and keep pointing the fingers at others. 3 posters tried to tell you on multiple occasions that the post you quoted ...

First off I agree 100% that Sammy does not get 3 mil in Detroit but you are playing ignorant or are blind to the happenings this offseason if you think he cannot get 3 mil. OR it is the whipping boy phenomenon striking again.

Maybe due to new economic situations things are different, but come on man, some one gave Jeff Finger 3 mil.

Slava Kozlov gets over 3 mil a year (with an average of 10 points less a year than Sammy)

Marco Sturm 3.5 mil and except for one season is pretty much on par with Sammy points wise.

Michael Ryder, who had 2 50 point seasons followed by 2 30 point seasons makes 4 mil.

Chuck Kobasew at 2.5 mil.

Kyle Calder make 2.7 mil.

I am not saying he will get 3 mil on the wings but you are being naive if you think he won't get 3 mil from some one else. He may be a product of the system but he produces. More so than Calder or Kobasew and they make 2x as much as him currently.

Look at what Edmonton threw at Penner, he could turn out to be the next Bertuzzi (I hope he does I like the kid, Maine product and all), but he could also turn out to be one hell of an expensive 3rd line checker.

was in agreement with you!

(The bolds were added to help your comprehension.)

You will notice I started it off by agreeing with you that Holland would not pay the 3 mil!!

And here is your reply with my post quoted in it:

Holland is NOT going to offer Sammy 3 million! Will another team be reckless enough to offer Sammy $3 mil? Probably, lots of dumb GMs out there. However, with the economy being as weak as it is, some GMs might actually *think* about their offers before being reckless.

I think it's ignorant to think Holland would offer Sammy 3 million per year. It's not gonna happen.

And then Eva and Egroen were telling you that you were in fact arguing with some one who agreed with you, which is when you started the "Eating Crow" platform.

Jesus dude, follow your on fu(k1ng posts.

I am the ignorant one, yet I am the one who can follow a thread what does that make you!!

EDIT: to spell whole --> hole!

2nd Edit: No need for name calling!!

Edited December 19, 2008 by Opie

[Opie 308]

How many times do I need to tell you... Sammy is not getting 3 million on this team. Holland, thankfully, isn't that ******* stupid. Sammy's not worth it.

I'm not convinced that there is ANY GM out there that stupid, but then again, Dallas did sign Avery for an obscene amount.

Read this quote from you, this was my response.

First off I agree 100% that Sammy does not get 3 mil in Detroit but you are playing ignorant or are blind to the happenings this offseason if you think he cannot get 3 mil. OR it is the whipping boy phenomenon striking again.

Maybe due to new economic situations things are different, but come on man, some one gave Jeff Finger 3 mil.

Slava Kozlov gets over 3 mil a year (with an average of 10 points less a year than Sammy)

Marco Sturm 3.5 mil and except for one season is pretty much on par with Sammy points wise.

Michael Ryder, who had 2 50 point seasons followed by 2 30 point seasons makes 4 mil.

Chuck Kobasew at 2.5 mil.

Kyle Calder make 2.7 mil.

I am not saying he will get 3 mil on the wings but you are being naive if you think he won't get 3 mil from some one else. He may be a product of the system but he produces. More so than Calder or Kobasew and they make 2x as much as him currently.

Look at what Edmonton threw at Penner, he could turn out to be the next Bertuzzi (I hope he does I like the kid, Maine product and all), but he could also turn out to be one hell of an expensive 3rd line checker.

Click on either of the red arrows at the top of the quote and follow the thread from there.

And do me another favor slowly re-read post 80 where in fact I say the following:

Holland wouldn't sign him for 3 mil, BUT THAT SOME ONE ELSE WOULD!.

Hell in the original post I put it in bold and you still missed the n't!

It is called a contraction and it stands for WOULD NOT

The point is you were arguing with Eva and I that he would not get 3 mil from the team, we agreed with you the whole time, THAT IS WHAT YOU MISSED!

Edited December 19, 2008 by Opie

[Opie 308]

f*** it not worth it!!

For the record I never back pedaled my stance has ben throughout the thread that Sammy would go for over 3 to another team and less than 3 to the wings.

NUFF SAID!

Edited December 19, 2008 by Opie

[egroen 384]

I can see Holland signing Samuelsson for $3 million (though I hope he does not) -- he gave Cleary a no-trade clause and $2.8 million, afterall, and Samuelsson has outproduced Cleary -- add in the fact that Babcock wants to have his children, and you have to figure Sammy has some nice bargaining power.

If you think he will sign for $1.75m, fine, stranger things have happened. I am more interested in seeing opinions on a full 22/23 man roster for 2010, and how it might or might not work. What does the large hometown discount of $1.75m for Samuelsson allow you to do with the roster? If all you feel like is arguing about Samuelsson's worth and flinging insults, kindly start your own thread and let the feces fly.

Edited December 19, 2008 by egroen

[Slave 31]

Well Since I am awesome I got next years team for ya. here it is:

Forwards:

Datsyuk - 6.7

Zetterberg - 6.7 (signs 9 year deal worth 10,10,10,8,8,6,4,2,2)

Franzen - 3.4 (signs 5 year deal at 4,4,3,3,3)

Filpulla - 3

Cleary - 2.8

Homer - 2.25

Draper - 1.6

Maltby - 0.88

Helm - 0.6

Leino - 1.0

Hudler - 1.5 (signs 1 year deal till lids retires)

Kopecy - 0.5

Abdelkader - 0.75

--------------------------- 31.68

DEFENSE

Lidstrom - 7.45

Rafalski - 6.0

Stuart - 3.75

Kronwall 3.00

Lilja - 1.25

Eriksson - 0.9

Meech - .483

---------------------- 22.83

GOALIES

Osgood - 1.417

Howard - 0.72

----------------------- 2.14

TOTAL= 56.65

My math could be wrong but i think it is legit...

So what do i win?