Avery comments & suspension

[Guest Shoreline]

Are you saying 6 games wasn't severe enough? What punishment did you want to see?

At very least suspension for the season, or half the season and an entire season of being barred from talking to the media when at an NHL-related venue. Kinda like the steroids issue and leagues' half-assing something it says is detrimental, imposing mere several game bans opposed to serious consequences a la the IOC of a two year ban for first offense. That's how you send a message without being taken for a joke. So I doubt the NHL's sincerity in this manner I doubt the MLB's seriousness involving steroids. Simple as that.

[lets go pavel 2]

At very least suspension for the season, or half the season and an entire season of being barred from talking to the media when at an NHL-related venue. Kinda like the steroids issue and leagues' half-assing something it says is detrimental, imposing mere several game bans opposed to serious consequences a la the IOC of a two year ban for first offense. That's how you send a message without being taken for a joke. So I doubt the NHL's sincerity in this manner I doubt the MLB's seriousness involving steroids. Simple as that.

Why not just shoot him?

Steroids are a health risk and clearly jeopardize the very integrity of the game. Sean Avery said "sloppy seconds". I can't believe we're even comparing the two.

[esteef 2,679]

At very least suspension for the season, or half the season and an entire season of being barred from talking to the media when at an NHL-related venue. Kinda like the steroids issue and leagues' half-assing something it says is detrimental, imposing mere several game bans opposed to serious consequences a la the IOC of a two year ban for first offense. That's how you send a message without being taken for a joke. So I doubt the NHL's sincerity in this manner I doubt the MLB's seriousness involving steroids. Simple as that.

Haha! Bettman suspending a star player a full season for remarks in the media might get him some "corporate interests" knocking on his door asking him WTF?!

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

Why not just shoot him?

Steroids are a health risk and clearly jeopardize the very integrity of the game. Sean Avery said "sloppy seconds". I can't believe we're even comparing the two.

How? The player is only doing it to himself. Not hurting anyone else, is it?

And yes, shooting would be a perfect example. Maybe an intermission event.

Haha! Bettman suspending a star player a full season for remarks in the media might get him some "corporate interests" knocking on his door asking him WTF?!

esteef

*turns on esteef broken record*

Ahahah! f*** Bettman!

Edited December 15, 2008 by Shoreline

[lets go pavel 2]

How? The player is only doing it to himself. Not hurting anyone else, is it?

Uhhh, yeah, one of the main arguments against steroids and other performance enhancing drugs that have been banned are that they are a form of cheating, which obviously affects more than just the cheater.

Edited December 15, 2008 by lets go pavel

[Guest Shoreline]

Uhhh, yeah, one of the main arguments against steroids and other performance enhancing drugs that have been banned are that they are a form of cheating, which obviously affects more than just the cheater.

You sure it's just not political correctness aimed against those who simply succeed and market the game because it doesn't cater to a lifestyle some approve of? I mean, after all, it was the steroids era that brought us the 60+ home run seasons of late. Surely it can't be bad or detrimental if it brings more fans, given the incredible attention it got. Right esteef?

Edited December 15, 2008 by Shoreline

[lets go pavel 2]

You sure it's just not political correctness aimed against those who simply succeed and market the game because it doesn't cater to a lifestyle some approve of? I mean, after all, it was the steroids era that brought us the 60+ home run seasons of late. Surely it can't be bad or detrimental if it brings more fans, given the incredible attention it got. Right esteef?

If you want to debate the reasons why steroid use is banned that's a different discussion. The point is that they are banned, and they are a health risk, and Sean Avery's comments don't fall under either of those 2 categories. Comparing the 2 as if their punishments should be equivalent is ridiculous.

Noone is arguing that the attention justifies Avery's comments or makes them okay, but many of us feel that the attention this particular case has garnered reflects badly on Sean Avery but doesn't have anything to do with the game of hockey (read: not detrimental to the game), and could have brought some added excitement to at least one game.

[esteef 2,679]

You sure it's just not political correctness aimed against those who simply succeed and market the game because it doesn't cater to a lifestyle some approve of? I mean, after all, it was the steroids era that brought us the 60+ home run seasons of late. Surely it can't be bad or detrimental if it brings more fans, given the incredible attention it got. Right esteef?

Using steroids and mouthing off in the media are two entirely different things, let's keep them as such. The difference in your statement above though is the fans didn't know the steroid use was taking place until after the fact. So they didn't have the opportunity to decide to continue watching anyway, they were being duped essentially. There's nothing hiding in the background with s*** talking in the media, the fans can either accept it and continue watching, or move onto something they feel better supporting. I personally would rather watch a sport where players rile each other up through trash talking then one where some players have advantage over others through steroids.

esteef

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Feel free to read my posts, folks. No, really. They don't bite.

yeah your posts are just like shorelines. you argue with everyone. you don't try and see any ones side. what you say is right and thats that...so no..i try not to.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

How? The player is only doing it to himself. Not hurting anyone else, is it?

And yes, shooting would be a perfect example. Maybe an intermission event.

*turns on esteef broken record*

Ahahah! f*** Bettman!

yeah talk about broken record...when someone has a legit argument about the stupid thing bettman and the league did...you go to your old stand by.

[Guest Shoreline]

If you want to debate the reasons why steroid use is banned that's a different discussion. The point is that they are banned, and they are a health risk, and Sean Avery's comments don't fall under either of those 2 categories. Comparing the 2 as if their punishments should be equivalent is ridiculous.

Noone is arguing that the attention justifies Avery's comments or makes them okay, but many of us feel that the attention this particular case has garnered reflects badly on Sean Avery but doesn't have anything to do with the game of hockey (read: not detrimental to the game), and could have brought some added excitement to at least one game.

The league says it was, you and to variably go all "selective outrage" on me. This much is obvious. The health discussion isn't so much of a prominent argument against baseball as it is the "integrity" factor for what people regard as a sport. This is why they are in fact one and the same.

Using steroids and mouthing off in the media are two entirely different things, let's keep them as such. The difference in your statement above though is the fans didn't know the steroid use was taking place until after the fact. So they didn't have the opportunity to decide to continue watching anyway, they were being duped essentially. There's nothing hiding in the background with s*** talking in the media, the fans can either accept it and continue watching, or move onto something they feel better supporting. I personally would rather watch a sport where players rile each other up through trash talking then one where some players have advantage over others through steroids.

Of course you want to keep them separately. The "integrity" factor of this is not turning a sport into a sleazy s*** talking entertainment first league, because it also represents a sport where the entertainment factor is what happens on the ice, or the field. Just like the steroids problem, there's an issue that this isn't what the league wants to see the NHL portrayed as, on top of the fact that their league represent the sport of hockey on a worldly level.

Now, on the subject of the replies made to me to try and goad me away from the point I was making, if the NHL were serious about it, just like if the MLB were really serious about curtailing these "integrity" issues, they'd be showing more of a serious side.

yeah talk about broken record...when someone has a legit argument about the stupid thing bettman and the league did...you go to your old stand by.

So I take it your only contribution to this topic anymore is following me around like a lost child, right?

Edited December 15, 2008 by Shoreline

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The league says it was, you and to variably go all "selective outrage" on me. This much is obvious. The health discussion isn't so much of a prominent argument against baseball as it is the "integrity" factor for what people regard as a sport. This is why they are in fact one and the same.

Of course you want to keep them separately. The "integrity" factor of this is not turning a sport into a sleazy s*** talking entertainment first league, because it also represents a sport where the entertainment factor is what happens on the ice, or the field. Just like the steroids problem, there's an issue that this isn't what the league wants to see the NHL portrayed as, on top of the fact that their league represent the sport of hockey on a worldly level.

Now, on the subject of the replies made to me to try and goad me away from the point I was making, if the NHL were serious about it, just like if the MLB were really serious about curtailing these "integrity" issues, they'd be showing more of a serious side.

So I take it your only contribution to this topic anymore is following me around like a lost child, right?

Hey Shoreline couple of things

1. Sure, steroids and trash talking can be connected in the sense that they're detrimental to the game. But they are most definitely not one in the same. You're looking at it merely as an issue of integrity. Which is like having tunnel vision IMO. Of course its entirely subjective as to what is offensive compared to there being no doubt about steroids. Of course your argument is that the league defines what's offensive so I guess you win on that point. Furthermore, steroids is cheating and having a real world impact on the actual sporting contest. Whereas trash talking can also have real in game effects, it most certainly is not cheating. So yeah, you can connect the two in a sort of roundabout way. But it's a slim argument at best.

2. Regarding suspension for 1/2 a season or more. Is that your personal desire based on you being offended. Or is that you saying you'd be for the league not being half assed about punishment. Which I agree, they don't take things as seriously as they could, of course i'm talking about suspensions for what occurs on the ice. I only ask b/c, at remember this is just my opinion, that anybody who would be for suspending a player for 41 games or more for using derogatory, sexual language is...well, that kind of person isn't the kind of person i'd want to hang and have beers with. But it might be the kind of person I need in a pinch when I need a spare pocket protector or I lose my anal plug.

[Guest Shoreline]

1. Sure, steroids and trash talking can be connected in the sense that they're detrimental to the game. But they are most definitely not one in the same. You're looking at it merely as an issue of integrity. Which is like having tunnel vision IMO. Of course its entirely subjective as to what is offensive compared to there being no doubt about steroids. Of course your argument is that the league defines what's offensive so I guess you win on that point. Furthermore, steroids is cheating and having a real world impact on the actual sporting contest. Whereas trash talking can also have real in game effects, it most certainly is not cheating. So yeah, you can connect the two in a sort of roundabout way. But it's a slim argument at best.

I don't see how it's tunnel vision when the issue is clearly integrity. Integrity falls under steroids in the representation it has to children, the representation it has to the "sport" (or so they call it) of baseball. The Avery antics were an integrity issue because of the image it presents of the league and the sport. This is exactly one and the same. Except the outrage on case A, versus the outrage on case B.

2. Regarding suspension for 1/2 a season or more. Is that your personal desire based on you being offended. Or is that you saying you'd be for the league not being half assed about punishment. Which I agree, they don't take things as seriously as they could, of course i'm talking about suspensions for what occurs on the ice. I only ask b/c, at remember this is just my opinion, that anybody who would be for suspending a player for 41 games or more for using derogatory, sexual language is...well, that kind of person isn't the kind of person i'd want to hang and have beers with. But it might be the kind of person I need in a pinch when I need a spare pocket protector or I lose my anal plug.

If you knew my sense of humor, you'd certainly not be suggesting I was offended. The argument of the issue for me has nothing at all to do with my personal opinion on how I took Avery's comments. It's from the perspective of the league, and from the perspective of sports in general, not to mention consistency or lack thereof in how they enforce things.

[Doggy 130]

Avery hasn't been dropped by the Stars because he said "sloppy seconds". The Stars have decided not to have him back because it's not what is best for the team. The players don't want to play with him and the coach is sick of coaching him. This is a situation that has been brought about by not only his thoughtless comments to the media. No sports manager with half a brain would cultivate such a volatile environment in his locker room.

It's very important in sports management to not dwell in past mistakes. They shouldn't be forgotten but never dwelt in. The only important thing is the future. The Stars are preparing for the future and trying to turn their misfortunes around. They aren't blaming Avery for their lack of success this year. They've conceded that Sean Avery is most likely to be more of a hinderance than a help in the future.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

The league says it was, you and to variably go all "selective outrage" on me. This much is obvious. The health discussion isn't so much of a prominent argument against baseball as it is the "integrity" factor for what people regard as a sport. This is why they are in fact one and the same.

Of course you want to keep them separately. The "integrity" factor of this is not turning a sport into a sleazy s*** talking entertainment first league, because it also represents a sport where the entertainment factor is what happens on the ice, or the field. Just like the steroids problem, there's an issue that this isn't what the league wants to see the NHL portrayed as, on top of the fact that their league represent the sport of hockey on a worldly level.

Now, on the subject of the replies made to me to try and goad me away from the point I was making, if the NHL were serious about it, just like if the MLB were really serious about curtailing these "integrity" issues, they'd be showing more of a serious side.

So I take it your only contribution to this topic anymore is following me around like a lost child, right?

hahahahahahah..good one shoreline...falls right in line with all of your other posts.

[Guest Shoreline]

hahahahahahah..good one shoreline...falls right in line with all of your other posts.

Ahahahaha.. wait, was yours any different than the previous, say, 10? Oh s***..

[esteef 2,679]

42! 42! 42!...

:beerbuddy:

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

Of course you want to keep them separately. The "integrity" factor of this is not turning a sport into a sleazy s*** talking entertainment first league, because it also represents a sport where the entertainment factor is what happens on the ice, or the field. Just like the steroids problem, there's an issue that this isn't what the league wants to see the NHL portrayed as, on top of the fact that their league represent the sport of hockey on a worldly level.

I guess this is just where we'll have to differ. I don't buy the slippery slope argument that if the league allowed Avery's actions to go unpunished then the league would deteriorate into a bunch of trash-talking assholes bragging about who banged who's girlfriend first. I don't have a problem with a few villians who run their mouths, fire up the fans, and who you love to hate. To me, that makes things more interesting.

I think a fine would have been the perfect way to slap Avery's wrist, and send a message that his energy is great, but his words on this occasion crossed the line. Obviously this is where I differ from the league. It is impossible to guess whether the length of the suspension represents solely their feelings on the seriousness of this offense, or is rather a cumulative punishment for a series of offenses, but in either case I feel the punishment is too much. You, it would seem, find it too lenient. To each his own.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The highlight of Avery's resume still reads: "Former Detroit Red Wing".

[Jedi 1,865]

Avery hasn't been dropped by the Stars because he said "sloppy seconds". The Stars have decided not to have him back because it's not what is best for the team. The players don't want to play with him and the coach is sick of coaching him. This is a situation that has been brought about by not only his thoughtless comments to the media. No sports manager with half a brain would cultivate such a volatile environment in his locker room.

It's very important in sports management to not dwell in past mistakes. They shouldn't be forgotten but never dwelt in. The only important thing is the future. The Stars are preparing for the future and trying to turn their misfortunes around. They aren't blaming Avery for their lack of success this year. They've conceded that Sean Avery is most likely to be more of a hinderance than a help in the future.

QFT.

And with that, this topic has run it's course.