What's wrong with Hossa?

[Z and D for the C 712]

worst hyperbole I ever heard. Zetterberg overhyped?

Take Zetterberg out of the lineup last season and detroit doesnt win the cup.

Well we're not discussing whether we should change the past...are we?

The simple fact is regardless of who we keep we're still going to be the best team in the league. That's what matters. Hossa isn't leaps and bounds better than Z, Z isn't leaps and bounds better than Hossa. I lean towards Hossa only because I find him more entertaining to watch. I love seeing him power through opposing players. Both have been hot and cold this season. Both had 3 assists today. They're both great.

You can't decide half way through the season, but I WILL say: Holland shouldn't sign zetterberg until the end of the season.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Guest dekeyuk]

worst hyperbole I ever heard. Zetterberg overhyped?

Take Zetterberg out of the lineup last season and detroit doesnt win the cup.

Oh yea, well take this. Take Pavel out of the lineup and you don't have a cup either. Dare to disagree with that and I will slap you with a huge pair of boobs.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Been too busy so I haven't followed the Wings much on live TV, but how's he looking the past few games? 1a no goals in his past 5 games I believe, is it a chemistry issue? Lack of finish? Sore groin? For those of you who've watched his play closely , what seems to be the problem?

He's fine. A 5 game no goal streak is insignificant. He has 34 points in 36 games. I expected his production to drop somewhat when he came to the Wings because he doesn't have to carry the entire load by himself.

He's getting chances. They will start going in again soon. He's had 20 shots on goal in those 5 games and he averages about an 11% scoring rate so he would normally average 2-3 goals in those 5 games.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Well we're not discussing whether we should change the past...are we?

The simple fact is regardless of who we keep we're still going to be the best team in the league. That's what matters. Hossa isn't leaps and bounds better than Z, Z isn't leaps and bounds better than Hossa. I lean towards Hossa only because I find him more entertaining to watch. I love seeing him power through opposing players. Both have been hot and cold this season. Both had 3 assists today. They're both great.

You can't decide half way through the season, but I WILL say: Holland shouldn't sign zetterberg until the end of the season.

That's exactly what Kenny IS going to do. Z will be signed before the All Star game.

You are right that neither is leaps and bounds better than the other but Z is the face of the club and our future Captain. He has also stated that he want to play his entire career here. Hossa hasn't. That's a big difference. Loyalty and commitment to the organization is the deciding factor.

[savaking72 0]

That's exactly what Kenny IS going to do. Z will be signed before the All Star game.

You are right that neither is leaps and bounds better than the other but Z is the face of the club and our future Captain. He has also stated that he want to play his entire career here. Hossa hasn't. That's a big difference. Loyalty and commitment to the organization is the deciding factor.

I agree, and I like Z better. Heck, if we get rid of Hossa. We can have both Z and Franzen. It seems Babcock has been trying Hossa on all the lines, and nothing has worked to get him scoring again. I realize it hasn't been that long since he has scored, but Z has proven to be consistant with this team...year after year. Heck, with all of the money we have been paying Hossa you would think he would be leading the team in scoring. I say get rid of him. Any team will pick him up, and we will continue on as we have always done.

[mustang051664 0]

I don't think anything is wrong with Hossa or any of the Red Wings.... Maybe it is a few of the other Wings are really stepping up

[Z and D for the C 712]

I agree, and I like Z better. Heck, if we get rid of Hossa. We can have both Z and Franzen. It seems Babcock has been trying Hossa on all the lines, and nothing has worked to get him scoring again. I realize it hasn't been that long since he has scored, but Z has proven to be consistant with this team...year after year. Heck, with all of the money we have been paying Hossa you would think he would be leading the team in scoring. I say get rid of him. Any team will pick him up, and we will continue on as we have always done.

It's not like Hossa doesn't have the 2nd most points on the team behind only datsyuk, and it's not like he wasn't leading up only until a week or two ago. And it's not like we can't credit about 5 or 6 games we would have lost without hossa, where his goals brought us back to win in. Let's not forget he had 13 points in 8 games in the beginning, and 4 goals and 4 assists in 4 games a little later.

You'd rather have Z than Hossa fine, but don't act like Hossa hasn't been a huge value to us this year, he has. The first third of the season he was our best player. He's cooled off a bit at this point but Z isn't exactly showing up the entire league either.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[ComradeWasabi 109]

If Hossa was scoring all of our goals, I'm sure someone would be saying we need to worry about our second-tier players like Cleary and Huds needing to step up more.

[Z and D for the C 712]

If Hossa was scoring all of our goals, I'm sure someone would be saying we need to worry about our second-tier players like Cleary and Huds needing to step up more.

If that's a reply to my post, point out where I said he has scored all our goals.

I said that some of his goals have been EXTREMELY clutch which we ended up building off of to win. I'm reminded of a game against the Blue Jackets where he broke a 2-2 tie, then columbus scored again, after which hossa again scored for the GWG. http://redwings.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,332

Or hey remember when Hossa made something out of nothing to tie the game against the BLACKHAWKS? Which we later won.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hudler

Franzen-Filipulla-Hossa

Leino-Cleary-Samuelsson/Helm

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson/Lebda/Chelios

Conklin

Osgood/Howard

Thats a solid lineup and much more stable than spending the farm on Zetterberg, paying Ovechkin money up front in an attempt to lessen the cap hit on a massive 7-10 year deal.

If we keep Zetterberg, the reigning Conn Smythe winner, TSN "Player of the year", you can count on losing Hossa, Hudler and possibly Conklin or Franzen.

That doesn't make any sense. How do you expect to keep Hossa, Hudler and Franzen? Then you turn around and say the same scenario isn't possible with Z instead of Hossa. Hossa is going to get about the same as Z as a free agent next summer. Both could get easily get offers of 9-10 million. It's going to be tough enough keeping two of the three of Z, Hossa and Franzen, let alone Hudler and/or Samuelsson. What do you think Hossa is going to sign for that allows the Red Wings to keep all of Franzen, Hudler and Samuelsson?

Z is the face of the franchise and the future captain. Holland's first priority is and should be signing Z to a new contract and then letting the rest of the pieces fall in place. I am thankful Hossa decided to play here for a season, but I am not willing to let Z go to keep Hossa around longer. This team won a cup without Hossa already. I would say there is almost zero chance that Z isn't playing in Detroit for the rest of his career.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm calling it right now. They all will be resigned before the season is over, and we'll add the entire All-Start team to our roster.

Bank on it.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

If that's a reply to my post, point out where I said he has scored all our goals.

I said that some of his goals have been EXTREMELY clutch which we ended up building off of to win. I'm reminded of a game against the Blue Jackets where he broke a 2-2 tie, then columbus scored again, after which hossa again scored for the GWG. http://redwings.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,332

Or hey remember when Hossa made something out of nothing to tie the game against the BLACKHAWKS? Which we later won.

It wasn't a reply to your post as much as it was a jab directed at LGW's tendency to complain about anything and everything about the Wings.

[swedishconnection 36]

Has anyone been watchin Hos from a defensive aspect? He is up there with Pavs. Anyone care to remember 2 years ago when Lang was on the team...? How about Bertuzzi? Well.... this guy wants to win, has amazing hands, and if we all can remember to this past spring he doesnt give up until the last split second in an elimination game for the cup.

Give the guy a break. A broken play for the other team due to a backcheck is worth 3 points in my book. Perhaps we should all take a second look.

Let Huds and Franz and Sammy score once in a while. It makes us a better team than if Hos and Z and Pav were the only players to score. Much harder to defend against.

Edited January 2, 2009 by swedishconnection

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Has anyone been watchin Hos from a defensive aspect? He is up there with Pavs. Anyone care to remember 2 years ago when Lang was on the team...? How about Bertuzzi? Well.... this guy wants to win, has amazing hands, and if we all can remember to this past spring he doesnt give up until the last split second in an elimination game for the cup.

Give the guy a break. A broken play for the other team due to a backcheck is worth 3 points in my book. Perhaps we should all take a second look.

Let Huds and Franz and Sammy score once in a while. It makes us a better team than if Hos and Z and Pav were the only players to score. Much harder to defend against.

people need to remember this with Z too, i think all 3 have been playing great physical, smart hockey, Pavel had baout 5 good hits today and one decent sized one on Walker

[wingslionstigers 12]

Zetterberg is the perfect example, he and Datsyuk have rarely played a single shift together this season and yet again it looks like Datsyuk is going to lead the team in points and out perform Zetterberg.

On pace totals, as of today:

Z:

80GP 33G 41A 75P

D:

82GP 32G 58A 91P

Datsyuk has and will lead this team in points for the third season post lockout and more than likely would have during the lockout. The stats have shown in the past that his performance actually increases when Z is out of the lineup.

Hes the reigning Selke and Lady Byng winner and Z had his best career season while playing with him. While Datsyuk also did see a ten point increase on his person best total. Pavel also scored 87 points, two seasons in a row before scoring 97 last season.

In the same fashion, Zetterberg seen a 4 goal and seven point increase from his person best playing with Datsyuk. Playing with Datsyuk also let him be more of a shooter, resulting in 100 more shots taken, compared to the previous season.

All of this being said, its clear that Datsyuk is the most consistent Red Wings player in the lineup. Past playoff no-shows aside, hes the offensive leader of this team. The PP runs through him, every shift he creates a scoring chance, even playing with guys like Flip, Kopecky or Cleary.

It seems with fans around these parts, they're more excited about what they think Zetterberg will be, instead of appreciating the fact that Datsyuk is already that. Hes the best player on the team and hes doing things that all time Red Wings greats have also done.

Someone please make a decent argument as to why Zetterberg should be the "Next captain" or should have ten mill thrown at him per season and i'll listen but none of it is backed up by statistics or reason. Its mostly the same crowd that thinks Detroit will die when Lidstrom retires, the only reasoning they have is the stretch of games two seasons ago where Lilja-Meech was the #1 pairing and Ericcsson, Quincey and Ledba rounded out the rest.

It baffles my mind how underated Datsyuk is, if he were Canadian or Swedish he would be the golden child. If Z wants a penny over $7.4 million or dare I say $6.7 million, than the DRW should let him walk. Filipulla is being wasted on the third line and Franzen and Hossa both bring the same game as Z but are more physical.

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hudler

Franzen-Filipulla-Hossa

Leino-Cleary-Samuelsson/Helm

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lilja-Ericsson/Lebda/Chelios

Conklin

Osgood/Howard

Thats a solid lineup and much more stable than spending the farm on Zetterberg, paying Ovechkin money up front in an attempt to lessen the cap hit on a massive 7-10 year deal.

If we keep Zetterberg, the reigning Conn Smythe winner, TSN "Player of the year", you can count on losing Hossa, Hudler and possibly Conklin or Franzen.

The fact is, even though hes done alot for this team, the biggest problem with Zetterberg is the fact that he has too much hype. Its the same problem Tampa Bay got into with Richards. Yes, he stepped up during a 25 game playoff but on the other hand, he only outscored Hossa by one point and Datsyuk by three, he hardly blew the competition out of the water.

Dude your so caught up on this number crunching. Do you even watch the games or are you to busy studying the stat sheet.

On top of that your numbers are misleading.

Z 2007-2008 Red Wings 75 43 49 92

75 games played, so we can agree on he was atleast on pace for 1 point per game. So lets toss around the idea that if he played 82 games he would have had about 99 points.

D 2007-2008 Red Wings 82 31 66 97

Again 06-07 if Z was healthy looks like they were on about the same level.

Z 2006-2007 Red Wings 63 33 35 68

D 2006-2007 Red Wings 79 27 60 87

The only thing you can argue is the fact that Zetterbergs has back problems and health is a concern. For all you know this year Z could end up on top D has only recently increased the points gap.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Dude your so caught up on this number crunching. Do you even watch the games or are you to busy studying the stat sheet.

On top of that your numbers are misleading.

Z 2007-2008 Red Wings 75 43 49 92

75 games played, so we can agree on he was atleast on pace for 1 point per game. So lets toss around the idea that if he played 82 games he would have had about 99 points.

D 2007-2008 Red Wings 82 31 66 97

Again 06-07 if Z was healthy looks like they were on about the same level.

Z 2006-2007 Red Wings 63 33 35 68

D 2006-2007 Red Wings 79 27 60 87

The only thing you can argue is the fact that Zetterbergs has back problems and health is a concern. For all you know this year Z could end up on top D has only recently increased the points gap.

Yup. Pretty much spot on. If Hank had played the same amount of games as Datsyuk each year, he would've had 100 and 87 points respectively.

...and I don't know why the hell this is, but people ALWAYS forget that Zetterberg's linemates for the ENTIRE 06/07 season were Tomas Holmstrom and Mikael Samuelsson. Not exactly marquee guys to be on pace for nearly 90 points. And does anyone even remember Zetterberg that year? He came out slow as a snail for the first 20 or so games and then blew the entire league out of the water by scoring something like 45 points in 25 games. Then he got injured. If he kept anything close to that pace, he probably would've had even more than the projected 87 points.

[Phazon 24]

Yup. Pretty much spot on. If Hank had played the same amount of games as Datsyuk each year, he would've had 100 and 87 points respectively.

...and I don't know why the hell this is, but people ALWAYS forget that Zetterberg's linemates for the ENTIRE 06/07 season were Tomas Holmstrom and Mikael Samuelsson. Not exactly marquee guys to be on pace for nearly 90 points. And does anyone even remember Zetterberg that year? He came out slow as a snail for the first 20 or so games and then blew the entire league out of the water by scoring something like 45 points in 25 games. Then he got injured. If he kept anything close to that pace, he probably would've had even more than the projected 87 points.

can someone enlighten me why zetterberg is so hated on this forum that people wants to get rid of him? He just helped red wings win a cup. I am puzzled to read some posts.

[blikst 1]

can someone enlighten me why zetterberg is so hated on this forum that people wants to get rid of him? He just helped red wings win a cup. I am puzzled to read some posts.

I don't understand it either.

[RedStormRising 7]

What's up with all the "What's wrong with (insert player/team)?" threads lately?

Players and teams have off-nights and even go into slumps occasionally.. Can you believe it!?

Hossa is fine. Z is fine. The Red Wings are fine. They will all get things turned around in time. Even if they aren't scoring or winning games for the team, their presence and other intangibles are irreplaceable and still very helpful.

[Opie 308]

I agree. Datsyuk is underrated.

But Zetterberg is Jesus.

NO Ray Allen is Jesus!!

Jesus Shuttlesworth to be exact!

[Datsyerberger 279]

can someone enlighten me why zetterberg is so hated on this forum that people wants to get rid of him? He just helped red wings win a cup. I am puzzled to read some posts.

Two words: Fantasy teams.

[Guest dekeyuk]

I think some of what is happening here is this. People certainly know what Hank has done for this team and he is one of the best hockey players alive. At the same time, it seems like Pavel may get short changed a little. His impact on this team and the Cup are, IMO, critical, but maybe not always fully appreciated. The two are of course made for each other and go together like peanut butter and jelly, but face it, Hank is a bit of a puck hog and shoots first, looks around later. Still, that's okay, he certainly knows how to make it pay! So, of the two I think it is fair to say Pavel is much more active in leading a line and setting up plays. I am certain he did this for Hossa and was a big part of Hossa's early scoring frenzy. Now Hossa is no longer on that line, and you have to admit that no longer playing with pretty much the slickest play maker alive is going to be an adjustment.