why the wings need ice girls

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Well now see i was going to say $1 beer night like the Whalers are doing tomorrow night against the Sarnia HoneyBees... (Can't wait... I have a fifty i wonder how many that will buy me????) But you sir just took the cake. I like this idea!!

As for the Ice Girls... No thank you, if this gets your motor running there are some fine woman working their way through college in the local strip clubs down the street. We don't need that in hockey...despite they show hockey in the strip clubs.

Not sure how people can be so extreme. So if we want ice girls for any particular reason, we all need to go to strip clubs?

As for not "needing" it in hockey. I guess they don't really need it in any sport. Wait, I forgot, hockey is the last great bastion of morality and higher standards.

It's a business decision to have them or not. And it'll be based on money. If they think it will generate more money for the club they'll do it. And I don't think you'll find Ken Holland calling those girls sluts or suggesting we all go to strip joints.

By the way, I have fond memories of quarter draft night in college. Nothing like getting crunk for 5 bucks and watching some dude slip and fall down a flight of stairs while a chick is in the corner, head in the garbage yackin'! Ahh, the good old days.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I would prefer not to see them at games, just like I would prefer not to see clowns piling out of a tiny car at center ice... it all has its time and place, but I prefer my hockey games to have a bit of an 'old-time, traditional' feel instead of a circus, spring-break feel.

Oh, and I can't believe GS&T is actually lecturing someone about being stubborn and arrogant

Wahh? Me? egroen, surely you jest

[OsGOD 3]

Not sure how people can be so extreme. So if we want ice girls for any particular reason, we all need to go to strip clubs?

As for not "needing" it in hockey. I guess they don't really need it in any sport. Wait, I forgot, hockey is the last great bastion of morality and higher standards.

It's a business decision to have them or not. And it'll be based on money. If they think it will generate more money for the club they'll do it. And I don't think you'll find Ken Holland calling those girls sluts or suggesting we all go to strip joints.

By the way, I have fond memories of quarter draft night in college. Nothing like getting crunk for 5 bucks and watching some dude slip and fall down a flight of stairs while a chick is in the corner, head in the garbage yackin'! Ahh, the good old days.

That was a little extreme but still, the kids that do the cleaning of the ice now are doing just as good of a job... and I highly doubt some chick in a leotard cleaning the ice would bring anymore more revenue into the joe... people that can afford to go are already there... A half dressed girl is not going to be the make or break point for people on the fence to go to a game.

Offering $1 hot dogs and s***, that seems to bring people in more becuase that cuts down on the cost of the game as a hole... putting money back in their pockets so to speak.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

That was a little extreme but still, the kids that do the cleaning of the ice now are doing just as good of a job... and I highly doubt some chick in a leotard cleaning the ice would bring anymore more revenue into the joe... people that can afford to go are already there... A half dressed girl is not going to be the make or break point for people on the fence to go to a game.

Offering $1 hot dogs and s***, that seems to bring people in more becuase that cuts down on the cost of the game as a hole... putting money back in their pockets so to speak.

Hey, i'm with ya. I love that those kids get to do that work. I imagine that would've been so cool to do that as a youngster.

And right on about the hot dogs and cheaper beer and giveaways, etc...

I'm all for it.

Getting lost in this whole debate is the fact that I've already said I could care less either way. What I find more interesting here isn't whether or not the Wings need them, but rather the social, moral argument that people are making. I find that shizm fascinating.

Ice girls themselves? Meh, if they have 'em great, if they don't, they won't be missed. I'm just not going to question somebody else's morality if they want it. Even i'm not that arrogant. Personally, they have 'em at the football games and they look amazing. I have 50 yard line seats about 15 rows back, been in my family for years. I get a good look at them all game. But in reality, I probably spend less than a minute actually oggling them. Because you know, there's a freakin' football game going on. I guess I just find the whole cheerleader, icegirl thing to be harmless.

[OsGOD 3]

Hey, i'm with ya. I love that those kids get to do that work. I imagine that would've been so cool to do that as a youngster.

And right on about the hot dogs and cheaper beer and giveaways, etc...

I'm all for it.

Getting lost in this whole debate is the fact that I've already said I could care less either way. What I find more interesting here isn't whether or not the Wings need them, but rather the social, moral argument that people are making. I find that shizm fascinating.

Ice girls themselves? Meh, if they have 'em great, if they don't, they won't be missed. I'm just not going to question somebody else's morality if they want it. Even i'm not that arrogant. Personally, they have 'em at the football games and they look amazing. I have 50 yard line seats about 15 rows back, been in my family for years. I get a good look at them all game. But in reality, I probably spend less than a minute actually oggling them. Because you know, there's a freakin' football game going on. I guess I just find the whole cheerleader, icegirl thing to be harmless.

I see what you are saying... i just find it weird having them there. I mean Sagnasty has these Hooters girls walking around the concourse and stuff and that just seems out of place at a hockey game... idk, i must be old fashion with these types of things... cheerleaders and or icegirls just don't have a place in hockey in my mind... not even talking about the morality side... something just isn't right about it to me.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I see what you are saying... i just find it weird having them there. I mean Sagnasty has these Hooters girls walking around the concourse and stuff and that just seems out of place at a hockey game... idk, i must be old fashion with these types of things... cheerleaders and or icegirls just don't have a place in hockey in my mind... not even talking about the morality side... something just isn't right about it to me.

Here's something you, maybe nobody would've guessed about me. I am extremely uncomfortable going to a place like Hooters. I think I can count on one hand the number of times i've been to hooters and strip clubs. Just not my thing as i'm not into masochism. As a 31 year old, married guy with 2 kids, a penchant for drinking and a definite lover of the quote "hot babe", I find it torturous being in those settings. It's probably like having a sweet tooth and being invited to Willy Wonka's. Just not a good idea.

But at a sporting event, they're off on the field or behind glass. To me, they're just a teeny blip on what I think of as a grand environment. You have this huge stadium or arena, tens of thousands of fans, families, drunks, food, a game to watch, lights and scoreboards and being there with friends, the girls themselves are really just a part of the whole scene in my opinion.

If they never come to Detroit I won't lose any sleep over it. But I can sure picture some attractive, scantily clad girls in red and white proudly displaying their "assets" behind the Wings logo and feel pretty gosh darn alright about it.

Edited January 27, 2009 by GordieSid&Ted

[esteef 2,679]

[Guest micah]

She's SO slutty. I can tell by looking. I bet everyone sitting in her section has the HIV now. Why is that skank ruining a perfectly good hockey game?!

[Ms_Hockey 0]

In your opinion, are myself and my colleagues immoral and classless for selling liquor to liquor stores?

Why would I think that?

I'm not saying that people who want ice girls and enjoy those types of things are immoral and classless. Just that my personal morals happen to be different. I wasn't trying to say that makes my morals and opinions better than anybody else's.

[esteef 2,679]

She's SO slutty. I can tell by looking. I bet everyone sitting in her section has the HIV now. Why is that skank ruining a perfectly good hockey game?!

I can't believe they let her show her waist like that!

esteef

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I like you.

You seem to realise that we all have personal responsibility and ownership of our emotions. That's a rare thing these days.

The girl above can either choose to be offended by men at sporting events talking like men at sporting events, or she could choose not to. I don't really get why people ever choose to be offended, to be honest.

I don't get offended. I get irritated. I understand that you don't get it. You're not like that. But it makes me uncomfortable to hear somebody talking like that six inches from my ear.

Again, I'm not saying I'm right and you're right. And I'm not saying you don't have morals or class. That's how I was raised and as such, it's a large part of who I am. Those kinds of situations always make me uncomfortable - not necessarily offended.

[The Mule 0]

There are a few girls in that gallery who aren't so hot, but for the most part, those ladies are gorgeous.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

The key point of the first bolded sentence is that you don't see. Not to hijack micah's point but if you weren't so close minded, it'd be quite easy to come up with at least 1 reason why Ice girls might benefit the team/atmosphere/community, etc....You wouldn't have to agree or like any of it, but being able to acknowledge it would prove you're capable of thinking outside of your personal belief structure.

As for the 2nd bolded part. Bravo, you should have strong convictions. But that 2nd part just screams (whether you intended to or not) or insinuates that anybody not like-minded to you is of loose or no morals and lacks class.

I think your post is very telling about the type of person you are. I don't know you but i'm not sure there's much to gain from you. You seem to view everything within your own bubble and whether micah is "being a dick" or not he has made a valid observation in my opinion in regards to your ability, or lack thereof to think critically. Like I said, you don't have to like or agree with somebody else's point of view. But you come of as extremely close-minded and very black and white. You seem to post in extremes. It's either classy or its not. You either have morals or you don't. Kind of an arrogant way to go about your life. And that's saying alot coming from an arrogant prick like me. Kudos to you I guess.

I think I just came off in a way that I didn't mean to. I realize, going back and reading now, that I seemed to imply that anybody who didn't agree with me had no morals, class, or anything else of value to their character.

In reality, that's not how I meant it. I just meant that the particular morals I hold for myself, I hold them very strongly. I didn't mean to say or insinuate that anybody else was less of a person or less "right" then I am.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Like I said, you are very extreme. So now these girls are all sluts? Dressing up like this is slutty? I guess figure skaters are all sluts too. Beach volleyball ladies sluts as well? Not sure what I understand to be the criteria for slutdom is. Is it dressing in a revealing manner? Or is it men's reactions to how they're dressed. If you're going to go with the statement "I find actions that appeal to a man's sex drive to be degrading and immature" I suggest you move to the middle-east or something where woman walk around in king size sheets. Do you have any idea how much of this world is organized and directed to appeal to men's and women's carnal nature? And seriously, if you've ever been around men (i'm not assuming something) you might know that it doesn't take a helluva lot to get a man's juices going, even if its just a subconscious thing in their heads. Men can get turned on if the wind blows in the right direction. Believe me, we don't need a whole lotta help getting frisky or even thinking about getting frisky.

So the choices are no ice girls or anything that appeal's to men on a basic human level or it's xxx and having sex in a Burger King bathroom for us all!! YEAH!

For the bolded part, actually that's not what you said. You said you have morals and class. You didn't elaborate. I took it to mean you were insinuating anybody who doesn't see it your way most decidedly does not have morals nor class. That's how I read it anyway.

PS: By the way, like your web photos. The one that reads "captions are not cool" is a very nice picture of you. I'd let you be an ice girl.

Oh, and it looks like Joe will get his tax cut in all likelihood. I know, I know, freaking crazy.

Yes, that time I jumped to extremes because I found this entire bash session to be incredibly ridiculous. (Not saying I'm not extreme anyway - but not usually THAT extreme.)

Thanks for the compliment.

Oh, and Joe might be a Congressman. :Facepalm:

[55fan 5,133]

Why would I think that?

I'm not saying that people who want ice girls and enjoy those types of things are immoral and classless. Just that my personal morals happen to be different. I wasn't trying to say that makes my morals and opinions better than anybody else's.

As long as you respect the rights of others to have differing opinions (which seems to be the case), there is absolutely nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in and living your life according to those standards whether or not other people agree with them. People are so afraid to offend that they are afraid to have opinions, standards, and morals. Sometimes it takes more courage to stand firm in what you believe than to struggle to appear politically correct. I'd be proud to have you for a daughter. At least I would know I wouldn't have to worry about you.

I'd like to pose a few questions for people on both sides of this debate:

What do you see as the purpose of having slush sluts?

Raising attendance?

Catering to men's carnal desires?

Team spirit?

Other?

How does your view of their purpose reflect your view on whether or not the Wings need them?

I was raised in a era when women were considered lesser and subservient. Do you think having slush sluts perpetuates that? Or do you think it shows that women have broken free of that?

Hockey, and sports in general, are viewed as male-dominant. Once this was the case, but now more women are interested, and are voicing their intrest. Do you think teams should ice both men and women to cater to all of its fans? Why or why not?

I realize this is coming off as an essay exam. Feel free to just answer the ones that intrest you. Turn your papers over when you have finished, and no talking Just kidding.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Yes, that time I jumped to extremes because I found this entire bash session to be incredibly ridiculous. (Not saying I'm not extreme anyway - but not usually THAT extreme.)

Thanks for the compliment.

Oh, and Joe might be a Congressman. :Facepalm:

It's how you came off in the earlier posts. But kudos for elaborating and clearing the air.

Like I said, you don't have to like ice girls or even think they are necessary. But I think all people, when they put their personal feelings aside can look objectively at anything and find some useful/good purpose to it.

IMO, even if I hated the mere thought of ice girls, I cannot objectively say there's absolutely no merit to them, that they wouldn't do any good, that they wouldn't sell one extra ticket, that their presence at a charity event or at a hospital wouldn't brighten up somebody's day. Whether I agreed with it or not or thought it was crass, I couldn't deny that the potential for them to do something to aid the team/organization and/or community exists.

Here's a personal example. I am a die hard Cleveland Browns fan. I hate the Denver Broncos with a passion. Actually, other than loving Colorado b/c its beautiful, I hate all Denver sports (AVES = BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!). But a couple of years ago I saw this picture of a Broncos cheerleader. Not sure where or why I saw it but I thought, man, that girl is gorgeous. So I looked up their site, read about who she was, the kind of charity work she got involved in, blah, blah. Anyway, I found out you could buy a signed photo for like 10 bucks or something and they used it for whatever, I can't recall. So I did. Maybe that money got used for some good. Who knows. But it's possible.

Oh, and for the fanboys around here, here she is. I was smitten when I saw her.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

As long as you respect the rights of others to have differing opinions (which seems to be the case), there is absolutely nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in and living your life according to those standards whether or not other people agree with them. People are so afraid to offend that they are afraid to have opinions, standards, and morals. Sometimes it takes more courage to stand firm in what you believe than to struggle to appear politically correct. I'd be proud to have you for a daughter. At least I would know I wouldn't have to worry about you.

I'd like to pose a few questions for people on both sides of this debate:

What do you see as the purpose of having slush sluts?

Raising attendance?

Catering to men's carnal desires?

Team spirit?

Other?

How does your view of their purpose reflect your view on whether or not the Wings need them?

I was raised in a era when women were considered lesser and subservient. Do you think having slush sluts perpetuates that? Or do you think it shows that women have broken free of that?

Hockey, and sports in general, are viewed as male-dominant. Once this was the case, but now more women are interested, and are voicing their intrest. Do you think teams should ice both men and women to cater to all of its fans? Why or why not?

I realize this is coming off as an essay exam. Feel free to just answer the ones that intrest you. Turn your papers over when you have finished, and no talking Just kidding.

All I ever hear my wife and her friend's talk about is how good football player's butts look in those pants or how hot Rick DiPietro is or whatever. IMO, you don't get male eye candy parading around to pump up the crowd. The women already have all the male athletes to ogle. So give us some gals to stare at.

Personally, I think the gals, and anything else, such as skating bears or whatever is all about pumping up the crowd, ie TEAM SPIRIT. I don't know a single guy who has ever said to me, "wanna go to the football game to check out the cheerleaders?". If the girls are getting men's juices flowing, it's a secondary benefit. The guys are gonna go to the game anyway. We're guys. Having some nice girls to look at is like somebody asking if you want bacon, sausage and pepperoni on your pizza. That s*** is just an added bonus.

[esteef 2,679]

HOT! Is she the one that married Elam?

Btw I'm a huge Elway fan.

esteef

Edited January 27, 2009 by esteef

[Ms_Hockey 0]

As long as you respect the rights of others to have differing opinions (which seems to be the case), there is absolutely nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in and living your life according to those standards whether or not other people agree with them. People are so afraid to offend that they are afraid to have opinions, standards, and morals. Sometimes it takes more courage to stand firm in what you believe than to struggle to appear politically correct. I'd be proud to have you for a daughter. At least I would know I wouldn't have to worry about you.

That was honestly one of the nicest things that anybody has ever said to me.

Thank you.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

It's how you came off in the earlier posts. But kudos for elaborating and clearing the air.

Like I said, you don't have to like ice girls or even think they are necessary. But I think all people, when they put their personal feelings aside can look objectively at anything and find some useful/good purpose to it.

IMO, even if I hated the mere thought of ice girls, I cannot objectively say there's absolutely no merit to them, that they wouldn't do any good, that they wouldn't sell one extra ticket, that their presence at a charity event or at a hospital wouldn't brighten up somebody's day. Whether I agreed with it or not or thought it was crass, I couldn't deny that the potential for them to do something to aid the team/organization and/or community exists.

Here's a personal example. I am a die hard Cleveland Browns fan. I hate the Denver Broncos with a passion. Actually, other than loving Colorado b/c its beautiful, I hate all Denver sports (AVES = BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!). But a couple of years ago I saw this picture of a Broncos cheerleader. Not sure where or why I saw it but I thought, man, that girl is gorgeous. So I looked up their site, read about who she was, the kind of charity work she got involved in, blah, blah. Anyway, I found out you could buy a signed photo for like 10 bucks or something and they used it for whatever, I can't recall. So I did. Maybe that money got used for some good. Who knows. But it's possible.

There's no denying that professional cheerleaders & ice girls do charity fundraisers, etc. They would aid the franchise. However, the principle of it is what bothers me. There's other ways to aid the team. Other ways to draw in revenue. Other outlets to use.

In other words, I can see the use for ice girls. I just happen to think that there are other ways to achieve the same goals without using them.

P.S. - Good choice!

Edited January 27, 2009 by Ms_Hockey

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

HOT! Is she the one that married Elam?

Btw I'm a huge Elway fan.

esteef

Oh, I had a friend back in the day, we were probably 10, 11 years old. He and I would come to blows over Bernie Kosar and John Elway all the time.

Her name is Renee Herlocker. Far as I know she used to date Dan Hinote when he was an Av but not sure what happened to her since. I don't think she's on the squad anymore. I know she was a student when she was on the squad. She's dreamy.

[Guest micah]

What do you see as the purpose of having slush sluts?

Raising attendance?Yes

Catering to men's carnal desires?Yes

Team spirit?Yes

Other? Charity, and an oportunity for local women interested in the careers of entertainment or even broadcast up pad their resume. See Paula Abdul.

How does your view of their purpose reflect your view on whether or not the Wings need them?

I don't think the Wings need them. Clearly, the Wings are a succesful organisation without them. Could they be beneficial to the team and community? Probably.

I was raised in a era when women were considered lesser and subservient. Do you think having slush sluts perpetuates that? Or do you think it shows that women have broken free of that?

No. Working women, like working men, sell part of themselves for profit. Their time, their tallent, their looks, what have you. I think that the people who look down on such girls have more to appologise for than the girls themselves do. We don't know what their tallents are - their looks might be all they were uniquly gifted with. Let them run with it if they choose to, hopefully they will get notived and be the next Cindy Crawford. This isn't an example of being subservant, it's an example of choosing the road you want to take. I am against capturing pretty girls and forcing them to labor on the ice with shovels and skimpy clothes. Mostly

Hockey, and sports in general, are viewed as male-dominant. Once this was the case, but now more women are interested, and are voicing their intrest. Do you think teams should ice both men and women to cater to all of its fans? Why or why not?

I think teams should ice the best, most competetive team they can. If that means some of the players happen to be women, or even sissy Euros;), so be it. I am not in favor of adding women to the rosters just to have them, but if there are women who are good enough to make it in the NHL, bring them in. Also, they should show us their boobs, just because.

Edited January 27, 2009 by micah

[55fan 5,133]

Just an added thought: Since we were talking about charity work, the Wings Wives and Girlfriends do a lot of that. And a lot of them are hot.

This doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not we should have the babes on ice. I just wanted to note that we do have hot chicks out there supporting the team and raising money for charities, and to give them props for doing so.

Back to your discussion...

[Inultus 12]

Why not have some girls out there ice skating or helping clean the rink or whatever? We have a good looking girl sing the anthem, is that sexist?

I just don't see people getting worked up over this. Anything which can keep our sport from dying is ok in my book, so long as it's not completely over the top.

And Ms. Hockey, altho I agree there are other ways to achieve team spirit and such, the fact is that hot women do help ratings, more so than say a great team chant or a hat giveaway.

[esteef 2,679]

Just an added thought: Since we were talking about charity work, the Wings Wives and Girlfriends do a lot of that. And a lot of them are hot.This doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not we should have the babes on ice. I just wanted to note that we do have hot chicks out there supporting the team and raising money for charities, and to give them props for doing so.

Back to your discussion...

PROOF!