Paul Kelly Interview on VS

[esteef 2,679]

The fact is, fighting only serves to entertain. It doesn't prevent a lot of the shenanigans that take place on the ice. Ulf Samuelsson, Mikael Samuelson, Claude Lemieux, Esa Tikannen, Sean Avery, Steve Ott, etc, etc, etc. all play on the edge and play dirty. And yet despite taking some beatings or engaging in fights they didn't or haven't changed their game. Not one bit.

I'm not against fighting in the NHL. I enjoy a good tilt between guys who are genuinly angry with each other. But I'm tired of people thinking that it really does act as a deterrent. It doesn't.

Disagree. I think if there were absolutely no tough guys, you would see a lot more of those "shenanigans" than you do now. Does fighting absolutely stop all cheap shots? No. Does it deter some of it? In my opinion yes.

Also, there's the intimidation factor that tough guys provide, much like smoking guys that come across the middle with their head down. It makes a difference.

esteef

[Hank 0]

Disagree. I think if there were absolutely no tough guys, you would see a lot more of those "shenanigans" than you do now. Does fighting absolutely stop all cheap shots? No. Does it deter some of it? In my opinion yes.

Also, there's the intimidation factor that tough guys provide, much like smoking guys that come across the middle with their head down. It makes a difference.

esteef

I agree that it might curb it somewhat, but again, then why don't goons play more in the playoffs?

Malbty has always been a prick and he's never changed. Chances are, if you're a clean player you'll always be clean. But in every game I've watched where a pest is present, that pest will always play his game regardless.

Steve Ott is a great example of that. All 185lbs of him.

But I disagree with the intimidation factor. Borje Salming said when he came in the league Europeans could be easily intimidated. It had a lot to do with the fact that everyone was expected to stand up for themselves and fight.

But he said that it's completely different now. He said there are very few players (let alone Europeans) who get intimidated in the least. The skilled players know they aren't expected to fight so that's a big relief off their shoulders.

Even George Laraque has said that any true toughguy that picks on a non-fighter is asking for it, and that's why you never see it.

Players like Semin, Savard, Hudler or MacDonald have no fear out there because they no longer have to live up to an unfair standard.

When's the last time you saw any hockey game where anyone was scared to grab a puck?

In the 80's you would see countless times certain players refusing to go into corners. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone turn tail and run from a loose puck in the corner or against the boards.

[egroen 384]

More players have serious, life threatening injuries from the razor blades they wear on the bottom of their shoes than from fighting. I propose hockey is to be played in slippers from this day henceforth.

The same can be said for the hard ice, hard walls and wooden sticks - hockey should be played in slippers, with padded sticks in a giant, inflatable arena.

Edited February 10, 2009 by egroen

[esteef 2,679]

I agree that it might curb it somewhat, but again, then why don't goons play more in the playoffs?

Malbty has always been a prick and he's never changed. Chances are, if you're a clean player you'll always be clean. But in every game I've watched where a pest is present, that pest will always play his game regardless.

Steve Ott is a great example of that. All 185lbs of him.

But I disagree with the intimidation factor. Borje Salming said when he came in the league Europeans could be easily intimidated. It had a lot to do with the fact that everyone was expected to stand up for themselves and fight.

But he said that it's completely different now. He said there are very few players (let alone Europeans) who get intimidated in the least. The skilled players know they aren't expected to fight so that's a big relief off their shoulders.

Even George Laraque has said that any true toughguy that picks on a non-fighter is asking for it, and that's why you never see it.

Players like Semin, Savard, Hudler or MacDonald have no fear out there because they no longer have to live up to an unfair standard.

When's the last time you saw any hockey game where anyone was scared to grab a puck?

In the 80's you would see countless times certain players refusing to go into corners. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone turn tail and run from a loose puck in the corner or against the boards.

Goons don't play in the playoffs because teams don't want to risk PP opportunities as much with more riding on the game itself. There are still altercations in the playoffs though, just not ones with the likes of the Boogaards, or Parros's of the league. And Again, a certain amount of cheap shots will still exist with even with fighters, but not as many. Players get intimidated, do they admit it in the media? Maybe not. But I can tell you Hudler does not go into the corners to dig pucks out against bigger opposing players. Why? I see Wings players (not named Datsyuk, Hossa or Zetterberg) pull up all the time to avoid being roughed up in the corners digging the puck out, and ultimately they lose the puck a lot of those times.

Fighters of all types basically have free reign over star players with regard to toughness in the reg/ season and playoffs. You won't see Laraque challenge a star player, but you'll damed sure see him knock the s*** out of them every chance he gets, sometimes late after the whistle, sometimes a little from behind, whatever. Who's gonna do something about it? No one. Intimidation is alive and well in all sports, I don't care what Borje says.

esteef

[skacore 2]

the whole fighting debate is idiotic.. it's funny because during the whole thing, it seems like fighting has picked up more than ever more often than not there is a fight in most games (except wings)

if two guys want to fight, that's their business

if two guys want to take off their visors, that's their business

it's like all these hockey "analysts" are basically saying the players are too dumb for their own good... players fight knowing the risk just like people drive cars knowing the risk...just STFU already

[sureWhyNot 19]

All you have to do is SUSPEND, players who drag other players to the ice.. The reason why we've had 2 bad incedents is because the players were pulled down to the ice, momentum smacking there head on the ice..

For every incident where that happens, bad or not, you give a 10 game+ suspension.. make a statement. and you know what will happen?problem solved.

You can't be serious? You want to implement this rule in the NHL? First of all the Sanderson incident that led to this whole flare up of fighting debate are two things 1) Unarguably tragic and overwhelming. 2) being unfairly used as an argument against fighting in the NHL where neither of them took place (death due to fighting), or have in the history of the game (guys lid comes off before or during the fight, he eventually falls/dragged down and dies because the lack of said helmet.)

Wayne Gretzky said it best when he genuinely asked in a polite and truly questioning manner what a guy (Sanderson) was doing fighting in a senior league anyways?

Some of you may remember the Chris Fox incident from years ago. Fox was a hockey player at U of M and during the off season struck Waterford resident Robert Thomas in the face during a hockey game at the Detroit Skate Club in Bloomfield Hills. "Fox ended up being charged with "assault with intent to do bodily harm less than murder" at the 48th District Court in Bloomfield Hills due to the incident because the slash Thomas to lose one tooth, and it loosened two others and chipped one - on top of that Thomas had reportedly undergone two root canals and has had several oral surgeries since the said incident.

Now I realize this is an ultra extreme scenario of slashing, as is the Sanderson incident in the argument against fighting, but follow me here for a second.

If the NHL were to banish fighting all together, or even implement obscene penalties and/or suspensions for fighting with a visor, not fighting with a visor, dragging, hugging, etc (all with the Sanderson case being referenced in doing so) wouldn't that be the equivalent of say making a slashing penalty in the NHL not just a 2 minute minor, but suspension worthy based on the Fox incident that happened in a beer league that is not associated with the NHL in any way shape or form?

Now I know what you are thinking, "slashing someone in the face is already suspension worthy in the NHL", and that's completely true - but by making a rule over an out of league, beer league incident which is extreme in nature (Fox's slash) to cover the entire infraction of the "slash" regardless of where it took place, what part of the body, etc would be the exact same thing as taking the Sanderson case (an extreme case which took place in a senior league) and using it as the basis to cover the infraction of "fighting".

I am so sick of hearing about the culture of violence in the NHL - the same points are used to make this claim over and over and over again. You hear Bertuzzi, McSorley's two hander over Brashear and now Sanderson. While these are undoubtedly horrific incidents, that cannot be a part of the game they remain just that - INSTANCES. Bad instances just like you have in MLB (head hunting, throwing 90 + mph at opposing players in general, fans attacking teams like the White Sox incident a few years back, players literally spitting in the face of an umpire, etc), the NBA (fights, attacking fans in a way that leads to a near riot, etc) and the NFL (stomping on faces of opposing linemen while they are laying on the ground, going above and beyond with helmet to helmet hitting, physically attacking own teams coaches/players in the lockerroom or on the sidelines, etc.).

I guess I can just sum this all up by saying that while the Sanderson incident was beyond tragic - it is just that - a freak incident in a high tempo, physical and combative sport that is not representative of a trend, or a call for outrageous rules to be implemented in a contrived and knee jerk response manner. Once death, paralysis, or SERIOUS injury becomes a epidemic in the NHL (I have no problem if amateur, beer, and senior leagues make whatever rules they deem necessary for their organization in regards to fighting and the practice of) then we can look at changing the current rules. Hell if they change anything in the NHL why not look at the no touch icing and the instigator add on - both of those need some consideration for change more so than anything else being proposed by the anti fighting crowd.

[PenaltyShot 96 521]

Interestingly enough (and to his surprise) the demographic which likes fighting the most overwhelmingly is females aged 18-35.

That's me!

That's me too! Try and find someone in that demographic who doesn't like fighting!

[Booster313 138]

Its a physical sport, the only way to avoid harmful stuff like this is to just stop it all together. I watch NHL network all the time and they have that story of the Canadien player that got destroyed from behind and had career ending injuries. Did hockey banish itself? No.

What about football? That Everett guy got nearly paralyzed while blocking/tackling on a kickoff, should they get rid of kickoffs? No. Should tackling be banned because a guy gets a helmet to helmet hit and causes Anquan Boldin to be out for weeks? No.

People say we need to recycle to save the earth. Really? The earth has been through flash floods, ice ages, been covered in molten rock and we are concerned about plastic.

Things are going to happen in the world and in sports and its sad that only at the sad times or when bad things happen that people get these discussion together. Hockey has been around for at LEAST 100 years and guess what, fighting was a big part of it, is a big part of it, and making restrictions on it on top of instigators penalties will just make it all much worse and more dumb. It's sad a sport, like he NFL, can skate by on incidents such as they have dealt with, which is far more and worse than the NHL, and not really have it be fore front because it's more 'widely accepted' in the US and is billion dollar investment.

I agree with your stance on fighting and I am not sure what the paragraph on the enviroment is about...but three out of those four are a product of mother nature...if it happens so be it...plastic is man made. We are the only species, other than Locust's that use more resources than we produce in an enviroment. There is nothing wrong with cars or roads or plastic of anything else...we just need to balance it with nature and unfortunatly we've not been responsible with that to this point. Hopefully we are starting to come around...just my two cents...and for the record. I am not a tree hugging, naturalist. I just believe we all have a responsibility to do our part.