3/17 GDT: Flyers 2 at Red Wings 3

[dat's sick 1,002]

Ozzie has really been fine since coming back from the 10 day break. The Columbus game can hardly be counted against him. Our defense was ECHL level that night.

It always amazes me how each and every goal Osgood gives up is scrutinized and analyzed more than the Zapruder film. Goalies let in goals. They all do. Sometimes you just get beat. Sure, he *could* have made saves on both goals last night. That doesn't make them bad goals. They're just goals.

Well said.

[russianswede919293 95]

< Amen. For months now, posters here have been saying that the Wings don't trust Ozzie. So where does it say that can't work the other way around? When does Oz get a consistent chance to trust his own frickin' teamates?

Stuart and Kronwall especially have scared the crap out of me with their iffy play and have been absolutely spatially absent. None of the Wings are really passing well. And what's the blocked shot ratio at the end of two? 15-2?? Whaaat? Are the Wings too good to get down and block shots? Uh, wouldn't that HELP??

The only creatively aggressive Wings right now on the ice are Maltby and Datsyuk (and Hossa). The WHOLE team has to start playing as a unit or there's no chance they will beat the Flyers. >

Lastly, I don't care how long you've been a fan or how many games you've watched. Oz doesn't have to prove jack to you. He has to prove it to himself, his teamates and Babcock.

Kronner had the worst game of anyone on the team last night. He was caught out of position and responsible for too many odd man rushes against.

Answer to the blocked shots...Lilja...he is the best shot blocker on this team...it shows...

[Guest Shoreline]

The three things I've seen that would worry me about the postseason if these trends continue are -- defensemen allowing players to go past them and wide. This may be from some assumption that they will go behind the net, or it may be because they are getting beat by speed. In either case it's bad and even Lidstrom has been beaten numerous times this way. Secondly, the difficulty the Wings have had in creating seeing space for Osgood and Conklin. This team's lack of physical defensemen has resulted in players sitting in front of the goalie and screening or picking up garbage goals. When the situation arises, the opposing player standing in front of the crease needs to be leveled. The boys are trying to stick-check the guys in front hence a lot of garbage/2nd/3rd/4th chance goals. Thirdly, the defensive play off the boards concerns me a lot as well. Guys like Hossa, if playing for another team, would have an easy time against this defense by the way they are playing off the boards this season. I've seen so many times players come straight off the boards, shrugging off a Wings player (forward and defenseman), and go straight to the goalie, or come from one side, go around the other side, shielding off the defenseman, and have a free backhand shot against the goaltender which is an outstanding scoring opportunity, the type that give the goalie a lower percent chance of stopping, much like a slapshot from five to ten feet away.

[Vladifan 680]

Kronner had the worst game of anyone on the team last night. He was caught out of position and responsible for too many odd man rushes against.

Answer to the blocked shots...Lilja...he is the best shot blocker on this team...it shows...

It sure did last night, eh?!

[Datsyerberger 279]

The three things I've seen that would worry me about the postseason if these trends continue are -- defensemen allowing players to go past them and wide. This may be from some assumption that they will go behind the net, or it may be because they are getting beat by speed. In either case it's bad and even Lidstrom has been beaten numerous times this way. Secondly, the difficulty the Wings have had in creating seeing space for Osgood and Conklin. This team's lack of physical defensemen has resulted in players sitting in front of the goalie and screening or picking up garbage goals. When the situation arises, the opposing player standing in front of the crease needs to be leveled. The boys are trying to stick-check the guys in front hence a lot of garbage/2nd/3rd/4th chance goals. Thirdly, the defensive play off the boards concerns me a lot as well. Guys like Hossa, if playing for another team, would have an easy time against this defense by the way they are playing off the boards this season. I've seen so many times players come straight off the boards, shrugging off a Wings player (forward and defenseman), and go straight to the goalie, or come from one side, go around the other side, shielding off the defenseman, and have a free backhand shot against the goaltender which is an outstanding scoring opportunity, the type that give the goalie a lower percent chance of stopping, much like a slapshot from five to ten feet away.

I agree with a lot of this, however, I would like to comment especially on the bolded part.

This is really a problem that most teams have, because in most cases there's little that d-men can do without drawing a penalty. I see pretty chincy little things called watching various games around the league.

The primary difference with the Wings that I've noted is not that we clear the front of the net particularly worse than anyone else, but rather that we have significantly fewer penalties called in our favor regarding front-of-the-net infractions. This is due to our primary screener's (Holmstrom's) reputation. We're all pretty familiar the kind of abuse he takes (particularly crosschecks in the back) without drawing a penalty -- when I see crap done like that in the majority of games to non-Holmstrom players, it's usually quickly called. This is furthermore compounded by Holmstrom taking phantom/reputation GI calls on a fairly regular basis.

I've noted that when another of our players is clogging up the front of the net, like Franzen, we draw penalties with much greater ease. I'm not talking conspiracy nonsense here, I'm simply pointing out a reputation bias that even the Wings org has commented on. Fortunately, Homer is so good at what he does that the gains outweigh the losses.

[Turretin 0]

Osgood played the second breakaway pretty much the same way as the first.

If Osgood comes out and is beat, he is way out of position. If he stays back and gets beat he is too timid.

I think he played very solid tonight.

I disagree that Osgood played the second breakaway pretty much the same way as the first. I will reference to the NHL.com highlight reel so that we can talk about objective evidence:

0:59 - the first breakaway: Osgood makes no proactive move, but rather stays back in the crease and waits to react. Good shot.

1:22 - Osgood challenges breakaway from outside the crease. Factual difference is that this breakaway was coming from centerice, instead of an outside angle.

2:16 - Datsyuk is a bad A

2:29 - Osgood comes out on the rush to above the crease and then backs up as it comes to him (giving the shooter less space physically and psychologically). Osgood makes a poke check to the shooters move at this exact second (2:29).

I think that these are NOT mistakes, but rather INDICATORS of a bruised confidence. That being said, on the first goal:

1. Where is our D?

2. Why does Hossa back check applying pressure from the outside instead of pushing the shooter toward the corner? If he does that, Osgood's positioning and reactions make more sense.

3. This was a solid game by Osgood, and I think 2-3 more of these in a row and he should be fine. Like I said in my previous post, it does make me nervous about his bounce back confidence if he has a bad game in the playoffs.

[Guest Shoreline]

I agree with a lot of this, however, I would like to comment especially on the bolded part.

This is really a problem that most teams have, because in most cases there's little that d-men can do without drawing a penalty. I see pretty chincy little things called watching various games around the league.

The primary difference with the Wings that I've noted is not that we clear the front of the net particularly worse than anyone else, but rather that we have significantly fewer penalties called in our favor regarding front-of-the-net infractions. This is due to our primary screener's (Holmstrom's) reputation. We're all pretty familiar the kind of abuse he takes (particularly crosschecks in the back) without drawing a penalty -- when I see crap done like that in the majority of games to non-Holmstrom players, it's usually quickly called. This is furthermore compounded by Holmstrom taking phantom/reputation GI calls on a fairly regular basis.

I've noted that when another of our players is clogging up the front of the net, like Franzen, we draw penalties with much greater ease. I'm not talking conspiracy nonsense here, I'm simply pointing out a reputation bias that even the Wings org has commented on. Fortunately, Homer is so good at what he does that the gains outweigh the losses.

The penalties called that involve Holmstrom when he is on the receiving end are usually slashing penalties or rather huge crosschecking ones. Clearing players out from the net will not result in penalties. Hell, yesterday was a good example when Datsyuk went to the net and stood in front of it he was taking a beating and no penalty was called. This is the norm as players are allowed to clear out from in front of their own net. The entire reason this is necessary is so the goalie can see shots, as most shots come from the point nowadays. Ironically, teams that end up eliminating the Wings have been notoriously good at clearing out the front of their net and they do it usually without taking too many penalties because of it. So I don't really buy that the Wings can't clear the net out due to penalties being called -- they just lack the strength to do it and stick checking simply won't work, which is what they do.

[Opie 308]

I disagree that Osgood played the second breakaway pretty much the same way as the first. I will reference to the NHL.com highlight reel so that we can talk about objective evidence:

0:59 - the first breakaway: Osgood makes no proactive move, but rather stays back in the crease and waits to react. Good shot.

1:22 - Osgood challenges breakaway from outside the crease. Factual difference is that this breakaway was coming from centerice, instead of an outside angle.

2:16 - Datsyuk is a bad A

2:29 - Osgood comes out on the rush to above the crease and then backs up as it comes to him (giving the shooter less space physically and psychologically). Osgood makes a poke check to the shooters move at this exact second (2:29).

I think that these are NOT mistakes, but rather INDICATORS of a bruised confidence. That being said, on the first goal:

1. Where is our D?

2. Why does Hossa back check applying pressure from the outside instead of pushing the shooter toward the corner? If he does that, Osgood's positioning and reactions make more sense.

3. This was a solid game by Osgood, and I think 2-3 more of these in a row and he should be fine. Like I said in my previous post, it does make me nervous about his bounce back confidence if he has a bad game in the playoffs.

RE: bolded part

This is what I think led to Ozzie having a bad angle. Don't get me wrong I am not saying the goal was all Hossa's fault and Ozzie never had a chance.

But Hossa goes around the forward to the outside, giving Hartnell all the room he wants towards the net. I think Hossa (not his fault, good pass by Coburn and good positioning by Hartnell) just couldn't get to the position, however he was so close that I assumed he was going to get it. Maybe Ozzie did too, maybe not, I don't know. But Hossa going around to the outside of Hartnell was a little odd.

On another Hossa note, did you notice after his second penalty he really seemed to be in another gear, he never potted one but damn he was almost as spectacular as Dats last night, he just missed the net a few times!

[redwashington2000 42]

DISCLAIMER: This entire review is based solely off of the NHL.com highlights.

Osgood appeared to be "fighting" the puck quite a bit. My view is that long, uncontrolled rebounds, and timid position in regard to the net are two indicators of less confidence. For example, the first save you'll see on the NHL highlights is a shot that should have been controlled. Instead, Osgood responded a bit late and threw a rebound out in the center of the ice. Rebounds should be going to the corners (watch Hiller in Anaheim as a good example of this). On the first goal, Osgood sits wayyy back in the net and doesn't make any aggressive moves. Hartnell should have been poke checked, but Osgood was responding instead of initiating. It seems like he learned his lesson on that second breakaway, and poke checked, forcing the shooter to react. He is definitely not where he was last year. However, I think these are confidence issues, NOT skill issues. If Osgood is able to string 4-5 solid games together, he will probably be able to come on strong for the playoffs. HOWEVER, struggles this late in the season make him more vulnerable to a collapse after one bad game in the playoffs.

That being said,

Pavel Datsyuk is the best player on our team. Better than Zetterberg, better than Hossa, better than Lidstrom. There, I said it.

Good point, Dats is the best, he won the game yesterday, 1 gol and a nice pass to even the things up.

[Turretin 0]

RE: bolded part

This is what I think led to Ozzie having a bad angle. Don't get me wrong I am not saying the goal was all Hossa's fault and Ozzie never had a chance.

But Hossa goes around the forward to the outside, giving Hartnell all the room he wants towards the net. I think Hossa (not his fault, good pass by Coburn and good positioning by Hartnell) just couldn't get to the position, however he was so close that I assumed he was going to get it. Maybe Ozzie did too, maybe not, I don't know. But Hossa going around to the outside of Hartnell was a little odd.

On another Hossa note, did you notice after his second penalty he really seemed to be in another gear, he never potted one but damn he was almost as spectacular as Dats last night, he just missed the net a few times!

Hossa is made for this team. He really is. I understand why he loves it here because he just fits so perfectly. I am going to be sad to see what happens this off season. Between Mr. Clutch (Franzen) and Mr. Goal-Scorer (Hossa) I am hopeful that we can keep one of them. Remember Hossa in the playoffs last year? I am excited to see what he, Datsyuk and Zetterberg do when they kick it into playoff gear. Those guys have another tier that not even they can access until it is all on the line.

[Vladifan 680]

The penalties called that involve Holmstrom when he is on the receiving end are usually slashing penalties or rather huge crosschecking ones. Clearing players out from the net will not result in penalties. Hell, yesterday was a good example when Datsyuk went to the net and stood in front of it he was taking a beating and no penalty was called. This is the norm as players are allowed to clear out from in front of their own net. The entire reason this is necessary is so the goalie can see shots, as most shots come from the point nowadays. Ironically, teams that end up eliminating the Wings have been notoriously good at clearing out the front of their net and they do it usually without taking too many penalties because of it. So I don't really buy that the Wings can't clear the net out due to penalties being called -- they just lack the strength to do it and stick checking simply won't work, which is what they do.

Agreed. This also happened last night to the side and almost behind the Flyers' net. At least once, late in the game, one of our guys (?) was knocked down after the puck left that area and there was no call. Maybe there should have been but it happens all the time with no calls to speak of. It seems that only the blatant ones are called.

[LivoniaGrinder 37]

Remember Hossa in the playoffs last year? I am excited to see what he, Datsyuk and Zetterberg do when they kick it into playoff gear. Those guys have another tier that not even they can access until it is all on the line.

Hell yeah! Well-said!

[DanZ 0]

Kronner had the worst game of anyone on the team last night. He was caught out of position and responsible for too many odd man rushes against.

Answer to the blocked shots...Lilja...he is the best shot blocker on this team...it shows...

The reason the blocked shots was 15-2 after the first was because we were taking way way more shots. The reason is fairly obvious. Check the shots after the first and you'll see.

[Pavrik Zettersyuk 4]

Well said.

NONSENSE!!! Not impressed unless it's a shutout, and even then, I'm still skeptical... No, not really, and no one actually comes out and says this, but you've seen it yourself; there's Ozzy bashers even after a shutout, it's ridiculous.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Pavrik Zettersyuk