Holy @#%*!

[Opie 308]

Opie:

Who is your Babcock quote in your sig referring to?

Lidstrom

[MacK_Attack 108]

Actually, i think Hossa did have control of his stick. Look at slapshots taken by other guys around the league...the probably come up higher. Whether or not it was a penalty is clear....it wasn't, it was a normal follow through on a shot attempt, just unfortunate that there was a guy standing so close to him. Whether or not that should be a penalty is a different matter, and a whole nother topic.

If Berard had of gotten the stick in the chin and received 6 stitches....we wouldnt be talking about this incident, not even the day after it happened.

To say Hossa had "poor control of his stick" is ridiculous. He was going off for a line change and wanted the puck to get in deep....how do you do that? shoot it. What do you do when you shoot...take your stick back, hit the puck, and follow through. That is what he did and, although the injury was quite sever, you cannot penalize, disown, fault or point fingers at Hossa for doing what he did. That's like blaming Olli Jokinen for cutting Richard Zednik's neck, or Holmstrom (i think it was homer) for tipping a puck into Yzermans eye...it's just bad luck

How many slapshot follow-throughs come up to eye height? None that I can think of. The reason it didn't hit Berard in the chin is because it was a careless flail of the stick by Hossa in an attempt to do whatever he was trying to do, but missed the puck.

There's no evidence he was going for a line change. You're making excuses for him.

[up2here 41]

Berard actually has met the league's 20/400 vision requirement with a contact lens in the bad eye. This means that he would have to be within 20 feet to see the "E" at the top of an eye chart when a normal person can see it from 400 feet. In Canada 20/200 is legally blind. Very sad and unfortunate accident.

Edited March 18, 2009 by UP2HERE

[jenova0 0]

Berard was definitely going to be a top-notch D-man. This seriously hurt the Leafs Cup chances in 1999.

[Jarret_G 0]

The reason it didn't hit Berard in the chin is because it was a careless flail of the stick by Hossa in an attempt to do whatever he was trying to do, but missed the puck.

Seriously?

Check the distance between your chin and your eye...now get someone to take a stick and try to hit your chin when they're coming up high after a shot, it's hard, probably luck. It's luck...be it bad...that it hit Berard in the eye.

"but missed the puck"

i thought you said you had a better quality video than that. He hit the puck. But that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You're confused and thinking i'm taking a pro-hossa argument to this, but i'm not. I'm just saying it wasn't a penalty. Whether or not it should be is a completly different argument as i've already stated. I think that if a stick hits someone above the normal height of the shoulders...it should be a penalty...but thats not what the NHL wants, so lets not even try and argue that.

.....it didn't hit anyone, but his stick could if a player was there

[Jarret_G 0]

Get it in deep? off for a line change? he was standing in the slot attempting to shoot on net?

Having a player fall onto your skate or a tip going into an eye are completely different than some one taking a slapshot and hitting a guy in the face with your stick. He had control(this we agree on) over his stick, Olli was falling to the ground after hitting some one, he had absolutely no control over his body, and homer has a lot less control over the deflection of his shot than we like to give him credit for, it has a lot to do with physics and there is no need to get into that now.

Also missing the point. Sure...his stick was high, it was bad, was it a penalty, no. Was it his fault his stick was high and hit Berard?...yes. Was it his fault Berard is no longer in the NHL and can't see out of one eye?....no

What i was saying that it was luck that it hit Berard in the eye and not somewhere else. We can't BLAME Hossa for what happened...noone should have that pressure on their backs. The two examples i used were just that...examples, there's other demonstrations of luck and coincidence in hockey.

Another one....Bertuzzi on Steve Moore. Can we fault Bertuzzi for punching Moore in the back of the head and knocking him to the ice?...yes. Can we then say it was Bertuzzi's fault Moore's neck broke.....not really, 4 other guys came on top of him after that, who's to say that didn't cause the break.

What about Robert Lang's ankle injury. Is it Stephane Yelle's fault his stick was where it was?...sure. Was it his fault Lang's achilles tendon was severed and his career could be over?....no.

Let's not blame Hossa for something out of his control, i'm sure he feels bad enough that it happened.

[Opie 308]

I think I mislead you Jarret_G

I don't blame Hossa one bit for that play, much like most high sticks in the game, they are more often than not accidental contact, which I believe this was.

I believe it should be going forward a penalty, I understand that the call at the time was 100% correct. I am not arguing for anything more than the 4 minutes it should have been, 2 for high stick 2 for blood = 4 minutes sin bin time!

Bertuzzi started that mess, and jumped on top of Moore as he was falling to the ice, how come no one else ever gets hurt in pile ups of 4 or 5 players? Because when Moore was on his way down he landed on his neck with not just the force of his own weight falling 6 feet but that and the 250 pounds that came along with Bert and YES 100% unequivocally I blame Bert and he should never have played again! Bert wanted revenge for something, that in my opinion was a clean hit and his teammates fault for leaning down to get the puck, head on a swivel my man, head on a swivel.

Bert got his revenge, in doing so he crippled a man.

Now if you are talking about an injury from boarding, T. Roy style, then again, the boarding penalty and if the hit was deemed malicious the offender gets extra time or punishment, because it was part of the flow of the game, Bert went out of his way to chase down a guy who had already fought some one over the previous hit. Bert wasn't happy chased him down and crippled him.

BERT SHOULD BE SUSPENDED FOR LIFE!

Did Yelle get a tripping call?

I am not saying Hossa should have been suspended for blinding a guy, I am saying what he did should fall under the high sticking rule, and it doesn't but should!

[MacK_Attack 108]

Seriously?

Check the distance between your chin and your eye...now get someone to take a stick and try to hit your chin when they're coming up high after a shot, it's hard, probably luck. It's luck...be it bad...that it hit Berard in the eye.

"but missed the puck"

i thought you said you had a better quality video than that. He hit the puck. But that's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You're confused and thinking i'm taking a pro-hossa argument to this, but i'm not. I'm just saying it wasn't a penalty. Whether or not it should be is a completly different argument as i've already stated. I think that if a stick hits someone above the normal height of the shoulders...it should be a penalty...but thats not what the NHL wants, so lets not even try and argue that.

.....it didn't hit anyone, but his stick could if a player was there

I have a VHS copy of that game. I had to dig it out to watch it again when this topic was brought up.

Hossa missed the puck or barely got a piece of it. He was trying to put it on goal, but the puck went far to his left after he swung at it. From what I could tell, he had been on the ice for 25-30 seconds, so I doubt he was trying to get a line change, but I suppose it's possible. Still there's nothing to prove that because Hossa stopped as soon as he hit Berard.

I never said it was a penalty. I said it was careless use of a stick while trying to take a needless shot...or whatever he was trying to do while taking that wild swing at the puck. The reason he missed the puck was because he took such a wild, careless swing at it. The reason his stick came up so high was because he took such a wild, careless swing at the puck. A normal follow-through from a normal shot should not come near another players face (at least if that player is totally upright), but rather in the mid-section area.

Under the rules, there's nothing wrong with that play, but there should be. Guys shouldn't be protected by the rules if they're using their sticks to take wild swings at the puck like that. It's careless and irresponsible and Bryan Berard paid the consequences for it.

Edited March 18, 2009 by MacK_Attack

[Hank 0]

But not Lidstrom.

Seriously though...he was one of my favorite d-men when he was with the Islanders. The ironic part is that he was drafted by the Senators first overall...i'm not sure how he ended up with the Islanders but sort of a twist of fate how he got injured by the team that drafted him.

He was still great with Boston...he can QB a powerplay better than anyone i've ever seen.

I believe he was traded from the Sens to the Islanders because he made it clear, behind closed doors, that he had no intentions of signing with Ottawa. That's how Redden became a Senator.

Anyway, Hossa felt terrible about it. Berard has spoken about the incident and how Hossa visited him frequently in the hospital and was calling him all the time to see how he was doing.

It wasn't until Berard got his career back on track that he stopped checking in on a regular basis. And Berard wanted it that way. He kept telling Hossa that it was alright and it was only an accident. He didn't feel it was necessary for Hossa to continue calling or seeing him. But Hossa did anyway.

It was a bad accident but I think it's fairly clear that Hossa was careless with his stick - hence the immense guilt.

[SDavis35 140]

For whatever reason I always thought it was Sami Salo who did the damage...

[Hank 0]

For whatever reason I always thought it was Sami Salo who did the damage...

He only did damage to the fans blood pressure.

[Turretin 0]

I believe he was traded from the Sens to the Islanders because he made it clear, behind closed doors, that he had no intentions of signing with Ottawa. That's how Redden became a Senator.

Anyway, Hossa felt terrible about it. Berard has spoken about the incident and how Hossa visited him frequently in the hospital and was calling him all the time to see how he was doing.

It wasn't until Berard got his career back on track that he stopped checking in on a regular basis. And Berard wanted it that way. He kept telling Hossa that it was alright and it was only an accident. He didn't feel it was necessary for Hossa to continue calling or seeing him. But Hossa did anyway.

It was a bad accident but I think it's fairly clear that Hossa was careless with his stick - hence the immense guilt.

That's why I actually hate threads like this. It sucks for both guys. Hossa made a split second decision, absent any malice, and someone else was hurt by it. I can't imagine what kind of torture I would put myself through if I was in Hossa's position. He did it, he may or may not have screwed up. Either way, three things are clear (1) no one contends it was done with malice, (2) he has to live with it for the rest of his life, and (3) it was an act done in the spirit and natural course of the game. Let's just drop it.

[Williams29fan 6]

I saw the episode about a year ago before one of the wings game i believe, i remember it happening but i didn't realize it was Hossa.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

As others have already pointed out. Look up the rulebook. It's not a penalty.

Alright, fair enough for normal slap shot scenarios. But like Mack Attack is pointing out, its quite clear Hossa took a swinging slap at the puck - thats no ordinary slap shot, its a spinning swipe towards the puck. If you look at it that way, it seems hardly legal.

If a player golfs at the puck blindly at hits someone in the face, its seems like it would warrant a high sticking penalty to me.

[AtomicPunk 296]

Nothing against Mack Attack, but I think his Maple Leaf bias MIGHT be coloring his view of the events. And rightfully so. Just sayin'....if it was a Wing player, there are a lot of people here who would have been screaming for Hossa's head on a stick.

Myself, I saw it live and while horrific, I thought it was not intentional.

Edited March 19, 2009 by AtomicPunk

[AtomicPunk 296]

Good video, but no sound. Worth watching.

Edited March 19, 2009 by AtomicPunk

[Casey 145]

How many slapshot follow-throughs come up to eye height? None that I can think of.

Shanahan. He'd dang near hit himself in the eye, back in the late 90s.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Nothing against Mack Attack, but I think his Maple Leaf bias MIGHT be coloring his view of the events. And rightfully so. Just sayin'....if it was a Wing player, there are a lot of people here who would have been screaming for Hossa's head on a stick.

Myself, I saw it live and while horrific, I thought it was not intentional.

Nah, it's been 9 years. I'm over it from a Leafs perspective. But I'm sure there's more than a few people defending Hossa because he's a Wing.

It's just not right that players are protected by the rulebook when they're as careless as Hossa was on that play.

I had to have a look at the tape one more time. Hossa indeed did not touch the puck, it was swept away by Mats Sundin and the puck was probably 6-8 feet away from Hossa when he struck Berard. It wasn't even close. Can you call it the follow-through of a shot when in fact there was no shot?

That should not be a legal play. I know it was a freak accident, but there has to be some measure of responsibility on plays like that.