SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted May 5, 2009 I've been disappointed with Cleary this year. Last season, prior to his jaw injury, he was putting up points and making things happen in the offensive zone. Ever since then, he has not been the same. Cleary's offensive game has pulled a Houdini, so why is he on the second line? This is a line that, like the first line, should be focused on scoring. In my opinion, Cleary this year has been what Kirk Maltby has been. I have no knocks against him defensively, I just can't see why he is on the second line. Our second line currently consists of Franzen and Zetterberg - Franzen provides the big body. While our third line is Filpula, Hudler, and Samuelsson (no big bodies). It makes sense to me to take somebody from the third line and put them on the second. The second line gets a better offensively-minded player while the third line gets a little more size. That's a win-win in my eyes. As a side note, try to count how many times Cleary is on the ice. You won't be able to do it with just one hand - the guy is always falling. Yes, he made a great pass from his knees in game 2, but he didn't even need to if he would have stayed on his skates - it's unbelievable sometimes. Before everybody comes in with their replies, this is not a gripe or a groan, merely my opinion and observation - I simply think somebody else on the second line would be better. Filpula had a mediocre regular season, definitely under expectations, and while he's not putting up a lot of points in the playoffs either, he has looked good out there. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the second line. Your thoughts? I'm not really sure where you are coming from with this, especially now since Cleary has been one of the top point producers for the Wings so far in the playoffs. True he's not the first to get PP time out there and might be used more in a defensive/PK role first but again, he's been one of the better producers so far in the playoffs on the 1st/2nd line (1A, 1B type of line, whatever). Not really seeing what the problem is here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) He is plus 8 and has 7 points. His plus minus is affected by Red Wing goals that he didn't factor in on as well as goals against. To the OP, I'm not sure what guy you're watching, because Cleary has earned every bit of that spot given his playoff performance thus far. Thanks NFM. I knew it had to be one way or the other! Edited May 5, 2009 by Vladifan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted May 5, 2009 Apart from agitating and playing physically, Maltby is able to read plays (I think in the last game he was able to steal the puck from Selänne who tried a fancy pass/deke - that's something off of the top of my head, but there were certainly more occasions) and is a good defensive forward who can play on the penalty kill if needs be. Plus, he's won 4 Stanley Cups... Kopecky has a big frame which he could definitely use more, and his balance isn't great. Kopecky is sometimes moved up to the 3rd line, but I don't think he contributes that much there. Basically, I can't see how Kopecky is more valuable than Maltby, so if you need to sit one of the two, sit Koko. I think Leino played well when he was called up, even when he had 4th line duty - but I think this is overlooking the problem, namely that our 2nd and 3rd lines aren't scoring (yes I called HDH our 2nd line). So I agree that it would be nice to give our 4th line that edge, but I don't think that that is what is concerning Babcock at the moment. Also I think there has been a good deal of overreacting. We're only 2 games in, tied 1-1, and are a good road team who will be hungry and less rusty. Great post. Why? Because I agree with all of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KronwallCRUNCH 5 Report post Posted May 5, 2009 Cleary is a decent player when he's not being slapped to the ice by opposing players. Seems like the guy is never on his feet; he's always making snow angels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdinc 45 Report post Posted May 5, 2009 Cleary is the "Grind line" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 So this leaves us with: Owner: Al Sobotka Coach: Karen Newman Franzen-Filppula-Hudler Samuelsson-Helm-Kopecky Meech-Leino-Abdelkader McCarty-Draper-Downey Lidstrom-Rafalski Stuart-Kronwall Ericsson-Lebda Conklin Howard Call me crazy, but I still like our chances!! Let's go Red Wings (Cleary too)!!! I'll take that 4th line anyday. However, Sammy and Kopecky on the same line may just give me that heart attack that I've long been expecting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 I'll take that 4th line anyday. However, Sammy and Kopecky on the same line may just give me that heart attack that I've long been expecting. You must not have been around for the Boyd Devereaux days. No matter how bad a Red Wings forward plays, I always use Boyd as my reference point. !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kozac 10 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 I think its true that Cleary hasn't had a very good two games against Anaheim. Too often he couldn't control the pass, didn't get to a loose puck (but that goes for the entire team), got knocked around way too much. No reason to discount him yet though. He's working hard and I'm sure he'll get his rhythm back. Besides, I trust Backbock to make the right decision anyway. The player that frustrated me the most is Filpula. The guy makes a great move to create a chance but NEVER finishes, whether its a nice pass or at least some kind of a shot. He just takes it all the way around the net or goes into the corner. It almost seems like hes afraid to get hit out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,794 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 You must not have been around for the Boyd Devereaux days. No matter how bad a Red Wings forward plays, I always use Boyd as my reference point. !!! Devereaux played better for us in the 02 playoffs than Kopecky has ever done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 Devereaux played better for us in the 02 playoffs than Kopecky has ever done. That guy's stick and the puck were like magnets. OPPOSITE magnets, that is. I don't know how that guy kept an NHL job, much less got on a line with Datsyuk and Hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Rule_1010 4 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 Say what you want about Cleary, but I'll take his team LEADING +8 anyday. He must not being play too bad, considering that is a pretty good reflection of the lines' offensive/defensive play, and taking into account in both series this line has been matched against the other teams best line, I'll take it. His regular season wasn't great, but he is producing and playing solid when it counts, unlike some people Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Rule_1010 4 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 That guy's stick and the puck were like magnets. OPPOSITE magnets, that is. I don't know how that guy kept an NHL job, much less got on a line with Datsyuk and Hull. LOL Two Kids and a Goat line. For some reason that line clicked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jake Ryan 1 Report post Posted May 6, 2009 LOL Two Kids and a Goat line. For some reason that line clicked. Gee, what do you think that reason is? Hint: It starts with a pav, ends with a syuk, and has an eldat in the middle! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
