Will we get bigger and meaner?

[ben_usmc 253]

I ask this because I believe after 96 and we were bounced by the Av's and year before Devils, according to the Dater book, Holland was quoted stating that they needed to get bigger and meaner, and so they did. Regardless of the outcome of the series we know we will be seeing the Ducks in the playoffs for years to come, and they will continue to take cheap shots on our players. We know next year the team will look very different, so do you think Holland will once again move from less pretty to more gritty, like he did from the 95 team eventually to the 97 team.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Hopefully, but probably not.

Our enforcer is our PP. Unfortunately, when the game is over that enforcer isn't there to protect our players from getting their asses kicked.

I don't see Holland making many changes in the offseason even if we get blown out in game 7.

[Zion 93]

Can't afford to... so, no.

[kidish 0]

I'd hope Detroit wouldn't change much. They are one of the few pure skilled teams in the league right now. Like an above poster said, the Wings enforcer is the power play. They keep winning, so why change that up!?

[P. Marlowe 748]

Maybeperhapswhoknows. This topic is always new.

[Guest Shoreline]

I see some logic to getting a big defenseman like Big E, who can skate and hit, but meaner? Maybe in a retaliatory sense from dirty teams, but this kind of theater is a side show, not the main event, so the focus on it should be practically non-existent.

[ben_usmc 253]

well there back end is slowly getting bigger anyway, you have Big Rig, you have Kindl who is 6'3, and then you have Kosolov who is 6'4. So Holland does look like he is moving that way, plus money wise 3rd/4th liners aren't that much, plus the Wings generally get some nice deals, I don't think it's impossible.

Also P. Marlowe I love people that just come into a thread to ***** about it, good job you joke.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Its getting to the point where the Wings AT LEAST need to carry a guy on this roster who is a bona fide fighter. How can you look the other way when two of the last 2 guys to drop the gloves suffered season-ending injuries because of it? I like Ericsson a lot, but if he gets in over his head in a fight, losing him would be a ridiculous blow both now, and in future seasons. Its nice that he can take down Stafford and Perry, but those aren't even close to legit middleweights, let alone heavies.

At this point, however, I don't think the fact that we're not big and mean is whats keeping us from winning. Its simply work ethic. When the Wings bring their game, they dismantle the Ducks 6-3, 4-1. When the Wings don't bring their game, they win by a goal, they lose by a goal, or they tie (which consequently gets counted as a loss )

[Mike 0]

If the NHL was consistent in calling penalties that allow for the game to be faster and more skill based, like they said they were going to, then we wouldn't need bigger guys. This is why the NHL is the biggest joke of the 4 major sports. This "old time" hockey crap is exactly that, old. The "New" NHL is starting to look like the days of old but the NHL won't say that. Elbows, hooking, holding, interference, cross-checking, etc. are just as prevalent as they were pre-lockout. Enforce the rules like you said you would NHL and you might be able to attract those casual fans.

[ben_usmc 253]

Its getting to the point where the Wings AT LEAST need to carry a guy on this roster who is a bona fide fighter. How can you look the other way when two of the last 2 guys to drop the gloves suffered season-ending injuries because of it? I like Ericsson a lot, but if he gets in over his head in a fight, losing him would be a ridiculous blow both now, and in future seasons. Its nice that he can take down Stafford and Perry, but those aren't even close to legit middleweights, let alone heavies.

At this point, however, I don't think the fact that we're not big and mean is whats keeping us from winning. Its simply work ethic. When the Wings bring their game, they dismantle the Ducks 6-3, 4-1. When the Wings don't bring their game, they win by a goal, they lose by a goal, or they tie (which consequently gets counted as a loss )

yeah, I can understand that. I just think it's a bit tiresome to see Pavel having to defend himself, Hossa, and injuried Rafalski, etc. But like I said I think Holland is already in the move of doing it, like the Stu pick up, I bet they probably would have been if the Hossa deal didn't fall into his lap (but you never pass that up)

[Guest Shoreline]

If the NHL was consistent in calling penalties that allow for the game to be faster and more skill based, like they said they were going to, then we wouldn't need bigger guys. This is why the NHL is the biggest joke of the 4 major sports. This "old time" hockey crap is exactly that, old. The "New" NHL is starting to look like the days of old but the NHL won't say that. Elbows, hooking, holding, interference, cross-checking, etc. are just as prevalent as they were pre-lockout. Enforce the rules like you said you would NHL and you might be able to attract those casual fans.

Right. One thing they can't take out is the intensity.

And yes, enforcing the goddamn rules would be nice too, wouldn't it? One thing for sure is the Wings are getting s*** on by the refs and this has happened consistently for the last several seasons. Wings had to basically up their game against s***ty reffing in the 2008 SCF's too. I'm getting rather tired of it, and I hope someone from the Wings organization finally speaks out against this glaringly obvious disparity.

[ben_usmc 253]

Right. One thing they can't take out is the intensity.

And yes, enforcing the goddamn rules would be nice too, wouldn't it? One thing for sure is the Wings are getting s*** on by the refs and this has happened consistently for the last several seasons. Wings had to basically up their game against s***ty reffing in the 2008 SCF's too. I'm getting rather tired of it, and I hope someone from the Wings organization finally speaks out against this glaringly obvious disparity.

it's not the Wings style to ***** like Ducks or Pens. Regardless if we are going to the old nhl ways then we have to set ourselves up to succeed the old NHL way. Also it's only that way until Crosby or OV have the old nhl way done to them, then we'll see Bettman on the phone.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Also P. Marlowe I love people that just come into a thread to ***** about it, good job you joke.

Pfft! It's nice that you love. These kind of threads pop up every day and the discussion never brings anything new. It makes me wish that every player in Red Wings was Hudler-size.

[ben_usmc 253]

Pfft! It's nice that you love. These kind of threads pop up every day and the discussion never brings anything new. It makes me wish that every player in Red Wings was Hudler-size.

and along with recurring threads we have recurring assholes with the same tired bitching, it's simple if you don't like it stay out. Would that be so hard?

Edited May 13, 2009 by ben_usmc

[Firehawk 305]

I hate threads like this. Why do we need to be bigger? We have a perfect mix of talent, size, age, experience, and skill.

My God.

[Guest micah]

I would like to see the Wings get bigger and meaner. I don't think they will.

The players I appreciate most are the "take no quarter" types - the few, the proud, the brave who could have played in any era, the guys who are complete players, the guys that can hit and score and defend themselves without the help of the refs.

Unfortuanately, the game that was expected with the removal of the 2 line pass and less clutching and grabbing never really arrived. Instead of becoming a faster game, with huge open ice hits, it turned into soccer on ice. Instead of clutching and grabbing, we see teams make "touchless obstruction" into an art form. There are more open ice hits perhaps, but they are too often cheap headshots. We have guys like Maltby who are allowed to act like the biggest candyass ******* in the world, because it's now a mortal sin to beat the tar out of him as he turtles. They didn't make the game a lot better, they just made it a bit different.

I say drop the instigator rule, keep the 2 line pass rule gone (no chance it was coming back anyway) count any after-whistle contact that isn't a fight as a delay of game (I can't be the only one who gets tired of the stupid wannabe toughguy posturing and facewashing after the whistle). If you're going to fight, do it. If you're not, shut your ***** mouth and keep your hands to yourself. Go big or go home.

[P. Marlowe 748]

and along with recurring threads we have recurring assholes with the same tired bitching, it's simple if you don't like it stay out. Would that be so hard?

Stop calling me names or I'll send you my dog's poo by mail.

I'm a bit addicted to this forum and especially when I'm bored I'm used to killing time by writing here. Usually I skip topics that I don't like as the results are never good anyway. Still, it was my way of voicing my opinion on this topic which is: maybe. I'm quite tired on threads like this because people seem to have so strong opinions on this matter and the size of the Wings seems to be such a sore point to so many.

Edited May 13, 2009 by P. Marlowe

[Wombat 26]

Hopefully, but probably not.

Our enforcer is our PP. Unfortunately, when the game is over that enforcer isn't there to protect our players from getting their asses kicked.

I don't see Holland making many changes in the offseason even if we get blown out in game 7.

I am all for increasing the overall toughness of the team... but at the end of the game like yesterday, what is an enforcer going to do? He's going to be planted to the bench while the offensive players are out trying to tie it up. If the Ducks want to start something then, an enforcer will not stop it. Even the next game, is the enforcer then going to have to run around and get into 4 fights to retaliate?

I don't want to come across as "anti-enforcer" in some argument because I value the fighting aspect of the game. However, putting one heavy on the 4th line isn't going to change much of anything. The entire roster will need to be systematically tougher to make teams not take liberties. And honestly, I think the Wings are almost there right now. The Wings are playing more physically than the "mighty" Ducks are, only they are doing it without trying to goad guys like Selanne into a fight.

I think this fight at the end of the game is exactly what the doctor ordered. The Wings will come into the game determined and pissed. I like our chances in Game 7.

[sean 19]

We should't have to have players whose purpose is to protect our other players from actions taken on them illegally.

[Wingsallwin 0]

I do not know we will get bigger or meaner and I do not care; however, the thing made us lose some games is not the size or being physical. The Wings did not play hard. And I am sick of saying the Wings do not bring up their game. Why don't they bring up their own games in the PLAYOFF?

Besides, following the way of the Ducks is stupid because the Ducks is big and mean but they are bunch of cheap s***s

[GoWings1905 2,694]

What would an enforcer have done yesterday?

The game was over.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

What would an enforcer have done yesterday?

The game was over.

He would have played hard from the opening of the game, which is something most of the team didn't do.

That's something you can always count on from a tough guy battling for a roster spot, as opposed to some euro who knows that his roster spot is clinched already.

[sean 19]

He would have played hard from the opening of the game, which is something most of the team didn't do.

That's something you can always count on from a tough guy battling for a roster spot, as opposed to some euro who knows that his roster spot is clinched already.

You can always count on borderline guys playing hard to make the roster. Enforcers are usually in this position if/because they can't play hockey.

At this point in the season, a roster spot has little to do with anything anyhow.

[Wombat 26]

He would have played hard from the opening of the game, which is something most of the team didn't do.

That's something you can always count on from a tough guy battling for a roster spot, as opposed to some euro who knows that his roster spot is clinched already.

Now THAT I can get completely behind you on. It would be nice to have more desperation out of the bottom 6 like Helm is showing. But like Helm, you don't need an enforcer to be the guy out there playing hard... you need a guy playing hard, whether he is big/small/NA/Euro/whatever. Playing with energy does not equal dropping the gloves.

[ben_usmc 253]

I'm not just talking about an enforcer, just some meaner sons a ******* out there. Imagine having like 2 Drakes out there, I mean pepper a little bit more hate in there. Like I said though I think they are going that way, when replacing Draper=Helm who is a wrecking ball, Maltby=Abby who seemed in the AHL anyway to have an edge, we just need a few more. Granted you aren't going to find a Lucic everyday, but how about Maltby/Draper/and a 5th rounder for Lucic