Class and Hockey.

[Guest Shoreline]

You might be a lost cause. It might be a waste of time trying to instruct you about all that went flying by you in this thread. There is no shame in being as obtuse as you. Head up, chap.

Instruct away. I have no shame. I wonder if you're as much an able-reader as you declare your adversary.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Instruct away. I have no shame. I wonder if you're as much an able-reader as you declare your adversary.

I tend to be doing better than most in this thread, then again I wrote the original piece. I'm trying to be as helpful as I can. I guess that is so douchey of me.

[Guest Shoreline]

I tend to be doing better than most in this thread, then again I wrote the original piece. I'm trying to be as helpful as I can. I guess that is so douchey of me.

So which part was helpful? Humor me.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

So which part was helpful? Humor me.

All the parts you didn't get. You've been humored.

[Guest Shoreline]

All the parts you didn't get.

The parts you've failed to explain.

You've been humored.

Yes I have.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

The parts you've failed to explain.

Yes I have.

Going back to what I have already said, I'm not sure you can be helped. There are some that understood this thread. There are others that just couldn't quite grasp it. You fall in the latter category. The thread itself can be read and reread and reread. I suggest you start there. Call me douchey, but I thought it was a pretty easy concept to figure out. I might have overestimated a few people.

[Guest Shoreline]

Going back to what I have already said, I'm not sure you can be helped. There are some that understood this thread. There are others that just couldn't quite grasp it. You fall in the latter category. The thread itself can be read and reread and reread. I suggest you start there. Call me douchey, but I thought it was a pretty easy concept to figure out. I might have overestimated a few people.

You sure I'm the one who needs help? Hell, even so, you haven't been very helpful to anyone, including yourself. There's two nice posts on the very first page you should read and re-read until you grasp them. No idea how you can suggest that I wasn't aware of the bias issue presented unless your only intelligence is how to type big English words. Comprehension is also part of the English language.

Once you figure this out maybe we can move on to this "instruction" part, or maybe you could explain why you bothered making this topic to begin with. It's not as if there isn't anyone here already pointing out (or in my case, mocking) the extreme-side of bias fans have here (I would suggest a search regarding Bettman/refs purposefully helping the Penguins win).

[BlakChamber 8]

You guys can stop with the bickering and personal attacks, eh? We need to keep this place classy.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

You sure I'm the one who needs help? Hell, even so, you haven't been very helpful to anyone, including yourself. There's two nice posts on the very first page you should read and re-read until you grasp them. No idea how you can suggest that I wasn't aware of the bias issue presented unless your only intelligence is how to type big English words. Comprehension is also part of the English language.

Once you figure this out maybe we can move on to this "instruction" part, or maybe you could explain why you bothered making this topic to begin with. It's not as if there isn't anyone here already pointing out (or in my case, mocking) the extreme-side of bias fans have here (I would suggest a search regarding Bettman/refs purposefully helping the Penguins win).

I can only lead you to the words; I can't will you to understand them. You've been contorting since page one. Now you resort to bow shots and generalizations. I posted the topic, in the first place, to express myself and my opinions with the secondary goal of spurring a conversation. We're still talking, ain't we?

[kozac 10]

This must be the "grit" you're talking about:

Oh no!!! Our very own sweetheart and fan favorite Kris (one of the classiest players in the league) Draper with a dirty play? Impossible! Must be a Bettman conspiracy!!

Stay objective my friends.

Edited June 7, 2009 by kozac

[Ames 0]

You sure I'm the one who needs help? Hell, even so, you haven't been very helpful to anyone, including yourself. There's two nice posts on the very first page you should read and re-read until you grasp them. No idea how you can suggest that I wasn't aware of the bias issue presented unless your only intelligence is how to type big English words. Comprehension is also part of the English language.

Once you figure this out maybe we can move on to this "instruction" part, or maybe you could explain why you bothered making this topic to begin with. It's not as if there isn't anyone here already pointing out (or in my case, mocking) the extreme-side of bias fans have here (I would suggest a search regarding Bettman/refs purposefully helping the Penguins win).

Flinstone,

A simple "yaba-daba-doo" is probably your best option for reply. Shoreline owned you (with class).

[Snazzy 0]

Strawmen and cheese. Never argue with a brick.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Flinstone,

A simple "yaba-daba-doo" is probably your best option for reply. Shoreline owned you (with class).

I didn't believe it until I saw you make the claim. But, I guess it must be true. Darn.

[Flowah 0]

This is such an old and tired point I think the OP just discovered it a couple days ago and is now so impressed with himself for understanding it that he just had to share it with the world, a world that already knows.

Yes perspective matters. You can "assuredly" tell me that some people thought that Malkin and Crosby were leading by example by playing physical? I can also assure you that some people thought any number of terrible things were "good". List any tragedy, the scale doesn't matter, someone out there will say "good idea!" I mean, I can also assure you that there are people who think the earth is flat, that doesn't mean it is. It's ridiculous to entertain the idea that slashing someone's leg with the puck nowhere in sight is anything but classless. If you want to try, go ahead. I think it makes you look stupid.

The only problem I have is people who apply the label inconsistently.

[Jake Ryan 1]

That Draper play was an accident. He meant to pop Staal across the face, but not with his butt end. That's not what butt ends look like. That's what back hand lightsaber slashes look like.

[djt813 0]

Anyone here find it classless by every single team in the NHL, based on some unwritten rule about sticking up for your goaltender, that there is a free license to hack, crosscheck, punch, facewash, slash any player within 3 feet of the crease on a stoppage---even when those attackers know that the other team is just doing their job looking for a rebound and they aren't going to harm the goalie? Classless or a gritty part of hockey? Can a penalty be called each time? Aren't the actions usually a breach of the official NHL rules? More often than not those hits come from behind to a defensless player.

Do you honestly think player A hits player B because there is a threat to his goalie's well being? Or, like me, do you know it is a chance to take a hack at a player and not get called for it while sending a message to the other team that might help keep a crease squatter on-edge for the rest of the game/series?

(mind you: I am not talking about the cases where a player is actually roughing the goalie).

Whole hearted agreement. It's pretty pitiful. I know as a Wings fan I'm a bit biased, but it certainly seems to happen around the other team's net much, much more than around ours...

[djt813 0]

Which reminds me, do you think Hossa's hit on a back-up goalie up 5-0 was a classless trait he learned while in Pittsburgh (under the leadership of Crosby and Malkin) or was it grit he picked up in Detroit under what has been described as the kind, loving, fair and sportsmanlike tutelage of the Wings leadership?

Do you think Pittsburgh and Detroit fans see that incident in different light?

Did anyone in Detroit cheer when they saw the balding scared back-up get smashed by the Penguins’ interpretation of the anti-Christ? I might have.

No cheering from me, unless "Jesus, Hoss, did we really need to do that in a game where the Penguins don't need any more excuses for cheap shotting us?" I was less than impressed and have no idea what he was thinking!

[djt813 0]

Then by your logic, Malkin's elbow wasn't classless either; it was just a dumb move that ran the risk of costing 2 minutes? Thanks for helping prove the original premise of the thread. Sorry you had to deal with all the tricky words.

Comparing a BUMP on Garon to a vicious elbow to the head of Franzen seems to be taking a bit of creative liberty...

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Comparing a BUMP on Garon to a vicious elbow to the head of Franzen seems to be taking a bit of creative liberty...

and THANK YOU for coming in and heping to solidfy the original point. One is a "bump" and the other is a vicious elbow. Had it been the oter way, you might call the elbow a high check with the arm up a bit and the goalie shot a nefarious attempt to injure.

[djt813 0]

and THANK YOU for coming in and heping to solidfy the original point. One is a "bump" and the other is a vicious elbow. Had it been the oter way, you might call the elbow a high check with the arm up a bit and the goalie shot a nefarious attempt to injure.

Uhh, I solidified none of your point with that response. I was hoping to solicit a more comparable comparison of events.

When a player hits with an elbow, it's an elbow. When someone bumps into the goalie, it is a bump. I agree that fans of a team almost invariably will have a different perspective on the same play. But I restate with objective conviction, certain to be shared by a neutral observer, that the elbow to Franzen's head was high and hard and Hossa's bump on Garon knocked him off his feet but didn't come anywhere close to dislodging his jaw from his skull. To argue that is to display the very epitomy of the bias you have been talking about.

Edited June 7, 2009 by djt813

[Snazzy 0]

and THANK YOU for coming in and heping to solidfy the original point. One is a "bump" and the other is a vicious elbow. Had it been the oter way, you might call the elbow a high check with the arm up a bit and the goalie shot a nefarious attempt to injure.

Strawman theory. Basic logic; not so basic it seems. Why would a player need to take out a non-facto 2nd goalie; that likely won't play another game in the series, when a game was out of reach?

clue/clueless? You decide.

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Uhh, I solidified none of your point with that response. I was hoping to solicit a more comparable comparison of events.

When a player hits with an elbow, it's an elbow. When someone bumps into the goalie, it is a bump. I agree that fans of a team almost invariably will have a different perspective on the same play. But I restate with objective conviction, certain to be shared by a neutral observer, that the elbow to Franzen's head was high and hard and Hossa's bump on Garon knocked him off his feet but didn't come anywhere close to dislodging his jaw from his skull. To argue that is to display the very epitomy of the bias you have been talking about.

Elbows happen every few minutes in hockey....running an unsuspectring goalie from behind happens much less often.

[djt813 0]

Elbows happen every few minutes in hockey....running an unsuspectring goalie from behind happens much less often.

Elbows and other evidence of players playing hard happen every few minutes. Elbows like Malkin's on Franzen most certainly do not happen every few minutes in hockey. "Running from behind" is overboard for describing the contact. Bump, fall to well padded knees, stand up. Happens all the time, and not that unfrequently to goalies.

If you want two plays we could more reasonably compare and disagree about, perhaps Maltby's game 3 or 4 slash on Crosby versus Crosby's game 5 slash on Zetterberg?

[Flintstone Cicarelli 0]

Strawman theory. Basic logic; not so basic it seems. Why would a player need to take out a non-facto 2nd goalie; that likely won't play another game in the series, when a game was out of reach?

clue/clueless? You decide.

You need to learn what a strawman is. The need to or the strategy behind Hossa's hit has nothing to do with how classless it might be. And thank you fo helping to solidify the original point ever more. The fact that Hossa had even less of a reason to perpetrate such a ridiculous act might add to the classless factor. One might argue that the Penss at least had a message to send and some frustration to let loose of.

[#19forPresident! 1]

Fan board denizens love to break out the class card when waxing unphilosophical about their opposition’s players. When they speak of their own they call classlessness by another name, grit. A cross check in the crease is a travesty; unless it is the hometown skate jockey grittily clearing out the area for your net minder. A medium-hard tap on the shin with the blade of a stick after the play is a horribly uncouth thing to do in a civilized game like hockey; unless it is your guy giving my guy a small reminder that he'll be there all game ready to mix it up. That, my son, is grit at grits best. Did he get an elbow up? What a lout. Did he take a run? Such a cretin. You see the way our guy facewashed their guy after their guy had the audacity to go after a rebound that our guy gave up after their guy, who beat our guy, wristed one toward our net and our guy? Grit, man, grit. Hey our guy only slashed your guy because your guy got his stick high (in such a classless way) a few shifts ago. Your guy is a classless animal. Our guy; gritty competitor.

I, for one, think the only classy moment in hockey should be handshake ceremony (slash) tradition at the end of a very classless and gritty playoff series.

Now a disclaimer from our lawyers: The authors and their counterparts do not nor have they ever condones a purposeful slash to the possible broken foot of an opposing teams start player back for his first game in a series. Although we freely admit that action to be classless; we also admit it takes some fair level of grit to pull it off on national TV.

No offense, but this reads like a bad assignment for an intro to college writing course.