Holland: Defense is set, waiting for cap figure

[ben_usmc 253]

there is no chance in hell we get rid of Flip, he is a playoff beast and we now know him and Hossa work together. That means we will probably role with lines like Dats/Z/Cleary, then Hossa/Flip/Franzen. I wouldn't mind keeping Hossa but only for no more then 4 mill.

Also are we going to get rid of Lebda or Lilja?

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

mlive

This is concerning, especially for all anti re-signing Hossa people...

[Cern 0]

there is no chance in hell we get rid of Flip, he is a playoff beast and we now know him and Hossa work together. That means we will probably role with lines like Dats/Z/Cleary, then Hossa/Flip/Franzen. I wouldn't mind keeping Hossa but only for no more then 4 mill.

Flip isn't a UFA anyway...

Also are we going to get rid of Lebda or Lilja?

Depends on how Lilja is doing health-wise. His headache issues sound really worrying, he might not wind up playing next season anyway.

[FedorovMan91 1]

I think losing Hudler and Samuelsson will not hurt that much. If Leino comes up to the Wings full season roster next season, he can fill out Hudler and Helm and Abdelkader can play for the full season I think.

For Hossa, it would be great if he wins the cup with us but if he asks around 6 million, I am not going to pay that much of money for him. If he can take around 4.5 to 5 million, that would be fine.

As one poster said above, we cannot trade Rafalski and Stuart because both have NTC in their optional contract sheet.

The line I am looking for the next season is:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Filppula-Franzen-?

Leino-?-Helm

Draper-Maltby-Abdelkader

?= whether you put Holmstrom or not; he has been terrible from the start to the end of a season. If he does not have NTC, we probably better trade him.

Wait a minute, I have a question for the defense

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja

If Chellios retires, which I hope, and who is going to be healthy scratched player with Lebda? Meech?

[Mike 0]

Leino will be on the roster next season or he will not be a Red Wing. He has said that much when he said that he was done playing in the minors.

[Theophany 110]

Leino will be on the roster next season or he will not be a Red Wing. He has said that much when he said that he was done playing in the minors.

I would think that Leino would play next season, since IMO he's at about Hudler's level of skill and he's going to sign for less than Hudler.

[FedorovMan91 1]

Leino will be on the roster next season or he will not be a Red Wing. He has said that much when he said that he was done playing in the minors.

Holland will proably get him in the off-season. And he is RFA, so we have the first responsibility to get a contract with him

[Mike 0]

I think losing Hudler and Samuelsson will not hurt that much. If Leino comes up to the Wings full season roster next season, he can fill out Hudler and Helm and Abdelkader can play for the full season I think.

For Hossa, it would be great if he wins the cup with us but if he asks around 6 million, I am not going to pay that much of money for him. If he can take around 4.5 to 5 million, that would be fine.

As one poster said above, we cannot trade Rafalski and Stuart because both have NTC in their optional contract sheet.

The line I am looking for the next season is:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Filppula-Franzen-?

Leino-?-Helm

Draper-Maltby-Abdelkader

?= whether you put Holmstrom or not; he has been terrible from the start to the end of a season. If he does not have NTC, we probably better trade him.

Wait a minute, I have a question for the defense

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja

If Chellios retires, which I hope, and who is going to be healthy scratched player with Lebda? Meech?

There were a lot of rumors coming out that Hossa would be staying for Franzen money, which would be a $3.9 million cap hit. I would imagine that the contract would be 1-2 years longer though. If Hossa does stay, 75-25 that he does, then Kenny might ask Homer to retire and possible have Draps or Malts consent to a trade to free up some cap space. It's all pretty messy, but Kenny can get it done.

Regardless of what happens with Hossa, I think Sammy is gone simply because he doesn't produce all that much and his two-way abilities suck. It seems to me that the team keeps him simply because he is a right-handed shot.

Our defensive core is solid. There is no need to go trading away half the D core because they had a sub-par season. I would consider a new assistant coach, bye bye Brad McCrimmon, before I considered breaking up the D core.

More than likely, these are our top 2 lines next season with Helm centering the 3rd line with a possibility of Leino being on the left wing. After that, who knows. We could see Downey on the 4th line at this point. It's just too early to tell.

Dats-Z-Cleary

Mule-Flip-Hossa

[Mike 0]

I would think that Leino would play next season, since IMO he's at about Hudler's level of skill and he's going to sign for less than Hudler.

Holland will proably get him in the off-season. And he is RFA, so we have the first responsibility to get a contract with him

I agree with both of you. Leino showed that he is NHL ready in the regular season and he will sign for around the league minimum. It would be stupid for the Wings to let him go.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Hossa doesn't mesh with this team. I don't care how great you are, if you can't be a strong part of the system you shouldn't be on this team.

That is why I want Hossa gone, not simply because "ROFL HE SUXORS IN PLAYOFFS"

[Casey 145]

Hossa doesn't mesh with this team. I don't care how great you are, if you can't be a strong part of the system you shouldn't be on this team.

That is why I want Hossa gone, not simply because "ROFL HE SUXORS IN PLAYOFFS"

Yes. He is a fine player. No debating that. Problem is, he doesn't fit the team as a whole. Splitting Z and D to make him fit does a disservice to all three, and there's no really clear place he fits in the system. Putting him with Z/D leaves you without a net presence. Z, Hossa and Cleary is better, but missing a setup guy. Hossa, Datsyuk, Cleary gets better, but you're still wasting Datsyuk's talents when Hossa won't chase rebounds. Hossa, Franzen, Filppula gets about as good as you can get, but now Franzen's being used as a screener, which isn't his best spot on the ice.

Let him go. Even if nothing else changes, I'm comfortable with the following, assembled in-house:

Z-D-Cleary

Franzen-Filppula-Hudler

Samuelsson-Helm-Leino

Draper-Maltby-Abdelkader

This is predicated on losing Hossa and Holmstrom, no one else, no acquisitions.

[Mike 0]

Hossa doesn't mesh with this team. I don't care how great you are, if you can't be a strong part of the system you shouldn't be on this team.

That is why I want Hossa gone, not simply because "ROFL HE SUXORS IN PLAYOFFS"

I would have to disagree. Hossa seemed to be a great fit for the Red Wings. First off, he led the team in goals scored and he was in the Top 5 for assists. No one had a bad word to say about him and he wouldn't be screaming about how much he wants to stay in Detroit if he didn't fit in.

I think the biggest problem is that it seems like our lines changed on a daily basis. No one ever had a solid linemate that they could gel with. I think it was a mistake for Babcock to break up Dats and Z. I think next season they are reunited, as they were in the SCF and I think that Mule, Flip and Hossa become our second line since they showed flashes of brilliance.

Next season will be better for Hossa. The attention will return to his play on ice and he will have a long term contract. The pressure of having to win a Cup because he left millions on the table for 1 season will be gone.

[Mike 0]

Yes. He is a fine player. No debating that. Problem is, he doesn't fit the team as a whole. Splitting Z and D to make him fit does a disservice to all three, and there's no really clear place he fits in the system. Putting him with Z/D leaves you without a net presence. Z, Hossa and Cleary is better, but missing a setup guy. Hossa, Datsyuk, Cleary gets better, but you're still wasting Datsyuk's talents when Hossa won't chase rebounds. Hossa, Franzen, Filppula gets about as good as you can get, but now Franzen's being used as a screener, which isn't his best spot on the ice.

Let him go. Even if nothing else changes, I'm comfortable with the following, assembled in-house:

Z-D-Cleary

Franzen-Filppula-Hudler

Samuelsson-Helm-Leino

Draper-Maltby-Abdelkader

This is predicated on losing Hossa and Holmstrom, no one else, no acquisitions.

If I recall, Franzen was the next coming of Homer. Then he went all crazy and became a 30 goal scorer.

[Booster313 138]

Hossa doesn't mesh with this team. I don't care how great you are, if you can't be a strong part of the system you shouldn't be on this team.

That is why I want Hossa gone, not simply because "ROFL HE SUXORS IN PLAYOFFS"

Hossa's teammates seem to disagree with you, everyone from Zetterberg to Lidstrom to Maltby to Osgood to Babcock has said how great he has been to play with and how hard he works out on the ice, Ken Holland even said that he thought the only game Hossa looked really tight in was game 6.

Hossa will be here for a longterm contract around 5mill in my opinion. Kenny will start at Franzen's number and Rich Winter will start at Zetterbergs number, they'll end right in the middle somewhere.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I would have to disagree. Hossa seemed to be a great fit for the Red Wings. First off, he led the team in goals scored and he was in the Top 5 for assists. No one had a bad word to say about him and he wouldn't be screaming about how much he wants to stay in Detroit if he didn't fit in.

I'm sure he was fine in the locker room. But he only consistently performed with two or three players. Couldn't play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and was only able to do very well with Filpulla and perhaps a couple other low tier Wings. He did do well in the goals department, but that isn't how the Wings system works.

I think the biggest problem is that it seems like our lines changed on a daily basis. No one ever had a solid linemate that they could gel with. I think it was a mistake for Babcock to break up Dats and Z. I think next season they are reunited, as they were in the SCF and I think that Mule, Flip and Hossa become our second line since they showed flashes of brilliance.

Possibly, but I believe the Mule should be on the first line. That is a cash money line. And a big reason the lines were changed regularly was because of the "Hossa can't play well with anyone" factor.

Next season will be better for Hossa. The attention will return to his play on ice and he will have a long term contract. The pressure of having to win a Cup because he left millions on the table for 1 season will be gone.

Of course, it may be too late, and his confidence may be shaken as it is.

[TheOwl 77]

Hossa's teammates seem to disagree with you, everyone from Zetterberg to Lidstrom to Maltby to Osgood to Babcock has said how great he has been to play with and how hard he works out on the ice

What else are they going to say? He let us down? Hockey players are classy people, and even though they don't blame Hossa, I bet they all realize he was a no-show.

The only thing going for Hossa is that he hit rock bottom after Game 7, has gotten over the pressure and will perform next play-offs. The Wings need play-off performers, and without Hossa, the Wings still would've won the central, still would of gotten to the finals. He wasn't a difference maker. He has a lot to prove.

[Mike 0]

I'm sure he was fine in the locker room. But he only consistently performed with two or three players. Couldn't play with Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and was only able to do very well with Filpulla and perhaps a couple other low tier Wings. He did do well in the goals department, but that isn't how the Wings system works.

I thought Hossa was decent with Dats. The problem is that Dats is no longer the pass first shoot second guy. Hossa needs that set up guy that almost always looks to pass first, which is why he fits so well with Flip. I wouldn't exactly call Flip a low tier Wings seeing as how he led the team in the playoffs in assists, along with Z. Flip is easily a first line center on many NHL teams.

Possibly, but I believe the Mule should be on the first line. That is a cash money line. And a big reason the lines were changed regularly was because of the "Hossa can't play well with anyone" factor.

I think having Mule on the first line is a mistake. It would be packing too much talent onto one line and then leaving the rest of the lines bare.

Of course, it may be too late, and his confidence may be shaken as it is.

Only time will tell on that one.

[Mike 0]

What else are they going to say? He let us down? Hockey players are classy people, and even though they don't blame Hossa, I bet they all realize he was a no-show.

The only thing going for Hossa is that he hit rock bottom after Game 7, has gotten over the pressure and will perform next play-offs. The Wings need play-off performers, and without Hossa, the Wings still would've won the central, still would of gotten to the finals. He wasn't a difference maker. He has a lot to prove.

Then the team must really hate Hudler, Sammy and Homer. There were plenty of guys that were no shows, not just Hossa.

The Wings would have still made the playoffs and won the central, but would they have been the number 2 seed in the West? The biggest problem for this team in the regular season was finding that drive. At times, it seemed Hossa was the only one with that drive and he is a big reason why the Wings were that number 2 seed.

[ben_usmc 253]

yeah I thinkm we can all agree that Dats/Z need to play together. But I also thought especially with a full season of Flip/Hossa would be sick.

[Mike 0]

yeah I thinkm we can all agree that Dats/Z need to play together. But I also thought especially with a full season of Flip/Hossa would be sick.

The organization is committed to Flip, which was seen by their refusal to trade him. He fits perfect with Hossa and comes up with goals every now and then. He reminds me a lot of a young Dats.

[Casey 145]

The organization is committed to Flip, which was seen by their refusal to trade him. He fits perfect with Hossa and comes up with goals every now and then. He reminds me a lot of a young Dats.

You're not the only one that sees a good streak of Datsyuk in Flip.

As for Hossa, you're right. If he's going to remain on this team, it has to be with a dedicated setup guy. Neither Z or Dats can fit that bill, unless they are playing together.

[Firehawk 305]

How can any of us doubt Holland? He'll make the right decision.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Keep Hossa, Give him another chance.

[Glubki 17]

I'm in favor of a slight overhaul...

Let Hossa, Kopecky and Sammy go, trade or accept a sheet on Hudler (even though you won't get more than a second rounder for him), trade Meech, retire Holmstrom and than bring up the kids and look for a hungry veteran forward for the third line.

Even if they do all of this it would only leave 4M to sign three forwards if the cap stays the same and 2M if the cap drops to 54M. I see no possible way Hossa can remain on this team for more than 2.5M annually without trading Kronwall or Flip.

[Snazzy 0]

I expect Abdelkader to play out his time in the AHL. Holland likes to keep the young guys down as long as he can for obvious reasons.

I expect to see Hossa in the Red and White for many years to come. Hoss will get his cup + many more. Bank it!