Holland: Defense is set, waiting for cap figure

[sixer 37]

People, if we have the ability to sign Marian Hossa we would be crazy not to.

If there is one hockey player on the planet that is more upset and likely more determined to come out and finally win a cup, its gotta be Marian Hossa. Seriously.

He's only 30 years old, right?

He's still one of the elite two-way forwards in the game.

He's still a big time goal scorer.

He's still a beast on the puck.

He's still got that powerful stride and the ability to drive past defenders and to the net.

So we lose Jiri Hudler? So ******* what! Or maybe we lose somebody like Samuelsson. Again, so what.

If you're talking about fitting Hossa on your team versus Hudler, how is that even a tough decision?

Yes, Hossa struggled in the playoffs. It's not the first time a Wing has struggled in the playoffs. Datsyuk anyone?

This is still a team that got to game 7 of the final. It's still a team that had a 2 nothing series lead in the final. This is a team that had a 1 goal lead in games 3 and 4 and coughed them both up. Why? It comes down to bounces and health. Babs said it himself, we had too many knicks and scrapes on too many key guys. Sure, everybody is injured in the playoffs, but those are the breaks. Datsyuk going down and never regaining his dominant regular season form didn't help.

Everyone is forgetting how much they loved Hossa when he stood up and fought. Everyone is forgetting how diligent this guy is on the backcheck and how hard he works in all 3 zones. Show me how many 40 goal scorers are out there that work as hard as him defensively. If we can find a cheaper one as good as Hossa then by all means i'll shut up.

We had injuries and some of our top guys just didn't get it done. But you know what, neither did the depth guys.

How many goals did Cleary have in the finals?

What about Sammy?

How about Hudler?

How about Flip?

How about Homer?

There were far more ineffective players night in and night out than Hossa. So I say, shed some of them instead of shedding a 40 goal, responsible two-way guy.

One thing I think we can all see is that injuries and the age factor might be creeping in.

I'll gladly watch Hossa, Abdelkader and Helm play 82 games and if that means no Hudler or no Sammy, I can live with that.

Amen.......Well Said and couldn't agree more.

[jeff48109 474]

It all depends on how much we have to pay Hossa. If the cap situation works out, i think having top 2 lines of

Z-Dats-Cleary

Franzen-Filpulla-Hossa

is really really good.

Hudler and Sammy are replaceable. We had kids like Leino and Abdelkader perform pretty well in the playoffs.

Holmstrom has to go.

[FireCaptain 563]

Is that guy related to this guy?

2 P and 2 L - no more, no less.

It all depends on how much we have to pay Hossa. If the cap situation works out, i think having top 2 lines of

Z-Dats-Cleary

Franzen-Filpulla-Hossa

is really really good.

Hudler and Sammy are replaceable. We had kids like Leino and Abdelkader perform pretty well in the playoffs.

Holmstrom has to go.

[titanium2 867]

What made the team in 2008 so great was their chemistry, both on the ice and off the ice. It's obvious that Hossa makes great chemistry off the ice. But seriously, what about on the ice? Make a list of players with whom he's had as great a chemistry as Franzen-Filppula, Hudler-Filppula, Hudler-Helm. Notice that I didn't even include Datsyuk-Zetterberg within that criteria. I'd be surprised if anyone could find 2 players while almost everyone else in the top-9 is like a carbon atom.

[Lidstromrules16 7]

I hate to say it, but I was NOT AT ALL impressed with Homer. I almost wouldnt mind seeing him go in favor of Hoss.

it saddens me to say it, but its true

[wingslionstigers 12]

Theres one right way to build this team right now. Don't sign Hossa develop our young players and get our young boys locked up once they develop. If we sign Hossa where our we going to get the cap room to sign guys like Helm and Ericcson when they require more money??

[chriskzoo 0]

I hate to say it, but I was NOT AT ALL impressed with Homer. I almost wouldnt mind seeing him go in favor of Hoss.

it saddens me to say it, but its true

Yeah, Homer is a great guy, but once Franzen emerged last year on the PP while Homer was out, it rendered Homer almost a luxury on the PP second unit.

[Glubki 17]

Theres one right way to build this team right now. Don't sign Hossa develop our young players and get our young boys locked up once they develop. If we sign Hossa where our we going to get the cap room to sign guys like Helm and Ericcson when they require more money??

Stop that... sensible/responsible insight regarding this team's financial future is frowned upon.

[C-TownWing 0]

What made the team in 2008 so great was their chemistry, both on the ice and off the ice. It's obvious that Hossa makes great chemistry off the ice. But seriously, what about on the ice? Make a list of players with whom he's had as great a chemistry as Franzen-Filppula, Hudler-Filppula, Hudler-Helm. Notice that I didn't even include Datsyuk-Zetterberg within that criteria. I'd be surprised if anyone could find 2 players while almost everyone else in the top-9 is like a carbon atom.

Nice work on that one.

I've waffled on this issue more times than I care to admit, but right now, I'm sort of in the camp of "if you have a shot at a high-end player for a decent cap number, you take it and worry about the chemistry later."

That said, anyone else concerned with 2010-11? I mean, fitting a decent team under the cap this year is all well and good, but what of those dire predictions of next year? Just taking a quick look, you re-sign Lids at a discount, Homer's off the books, same with Lilja and a few others that don't make enough to help that much (Maltby). Helm and Abs are both RFAs at that point too. Can you really save more than a couple million there, considering the need to fill the roster spots with capable bodies?

[Theophany 110]

To add to what GS&T said, how good are Sammy and Hudler at two-way play compared to Hossa?

Homer will play out the rest of his contract and retire, IMO. Maybe take another few years at league minimum if he wants to keep playing after that. He's still great with Lids and Rafalski on the blue line.

Hossa is a responsible contract to pick up if you can get him at a discount; he's had a taste of what the Wings are like, who's to say he doesn't take a significant discount to keep playing for us?

I just fail to see how people are willing to pass up on one of the best two-way forwards in the game if he's willing to take a significant discount to stay.

[FedorovMan91 1]

I don't get it. If Hossa is willing to take less money to stay here by around 5 million, I would kick Hudler, and Samuelsson. I think Babcock made few mistakes in the regular season. He tested too many different line combos and it resulted most of our lines cannot play as well as they did last year. The thing I have not understood yet is why Babcock had to split Z and D. I saw Hossa and Datsyuk don't have good chemistry as Zetterberg and Datsyuk do. Moreover, I think Homer is a great guy but I want to trade him. His age is 35 or 36. He eats up 2.25 million cap number and has done pretty much NONE in the playoff.

Next season:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Filppula-Hossa-Franzen

Leino-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Ericsson-Lilja(get well soon)

Osgood

Howard

Larsson

[Doc Holiday 0]

To add to what GS&T said, how good are Sammy and Hudler at two-way play compared to Hossa?

Homer will play out the rest of his contract and retire, IMO. Maybe take another few years at league minimum if he wants to keep playing after that. He's still great with Lids and Rafalski on the blue line.

Hossa is a responsible contract to pick up if you can get him at a discount; he's had a taste of what the Wings are like, who's to say he doesn't take a significant discount to keep playing for us?

I just fail to see how people are willing to pass up on one of the best two-way forwards in the game if he's willing to take a significant discount to stay.

Significant is the big word here.

I don't want to see a lot of effective players leave just because we have a "superstar" who may be more determined next year.

It is either he suddenly lights it up in the playoffs (with who on his line?) or we sign a long term contract to a playoff choker.

[Theophany 110]

I don't get it. If Hossa is willing to take less money to stay here by around 5 million, I would kick Hudler, and Samuelsson. I think Babcock made few mistakes in the regular season. He tested too many different line combos and it resulted most of our lines cannot play as well as they did last year. The thing I have not understood yet is why Babcock had to split Z and D. I saw Hossa and Datsyuk don't have good chemistry as Zetterberg and Datsyuk do. Moreover, I think Homer is a great guy but I want to trade him. His age is 35 or 36. He eats up 2.25 million cap number and has done pretty much NONE in the playoff.

Next season:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Filppula-Hossa-Franzen

Leino-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Ericsson-Lilja(get well soon)

Osgood

Howard

Larsson

I agree with you, but Filppula was a 3rd line center coming into this post-season. It was really Dats going out that forced us to put Filppula in the #2 center role.

He proved that he can handle it (and handle it well, at that), so I think in the coming season we should see Dats and Zata together more often with Filppula centering the second line.

BTW, I'd have Zata center over Dats, but that's just me.

[FedorovMan91 1]

Nice work on that one.

I've waffled on this issue more times than I care to admit, but right now, I'm sort of in the camp of "if you have a shot at a high-end player for a decent cap number, you take it and worry about the chemistry later."

That said, anyone else concerned with 2010-11? I mean, fitting a decent team under the cap this year is all well and good, but what of those dire predictions of next year? Just taking a quick look, you re-sign Lids at a discount, Homer's off the books, same with Lilja and a few others that don't make enough to help that much (Maltby). Helm and Abs are both RFAs at that point too. Can you really save more than a couple million there, considering the need to fill the roster spots with capable bodies?

I am not expecting much for the next season. I think it will be tough to even defend the division title from Chicago; I still think we will win the division though. As you said 10-11 season, we have to care about the defense too. Then, I don't mind not to re-sign Hossa. From my view, Lidstrom will not turn back to his prime. He is 39 years old and he may need a rest or a surgery to overcome the elbow issue. Then who? Ericsson? He may need at least two years to become a high level defense.

I am not good at trading or signing but if I were Holland, I would trade Holmstrom or waive him and not re-signing Samuelsson and Hudler. I will love if the Wings get either: re-signing Hossa for a big discount or get a puck moving D-man like Bouwmeester or young D-man: for example, I think Burne(?) in the Wild or Johnson in the Kings.

[FedorovMan91 1]

Significant is the big word here.

I don't want to see a lot of effective players leave just because we have a "superstar" who may be more determined next year.

It is either he suddenly lights it up in the playoffs (with who on his line?) or we sign a long term contract to a playoff choker.

What I am thinking is that Hudler and Samuelsson can be replaced.

Hudler-> Leino

Samuelsson-> Abdelkader or get one from the FA market.

Besides, I agree with you if Hossa asks more than 5.5

[Johnny Law 15]

I don't get it. If Hossa is willing to take less money to stay here by around 5 million, I would kick Hudler, and Samuelsson. I think Babcock made few mistakes in the regular season. He tested too many different line combos and it resulted most of our lines cannot play as well as they did last year. The thing I have not understood yet is why Babcock had to split Z and D. I saw Hossa and Datsyuk don't have good chemistry as Zetterberg and Datsyuk do. Moreover, I think Homer is a great guy but I want to trade him. His age is 35 or 36. He eats up 2.25 million cap number and has done pretty much NONE in the playoff.

Next season:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary

Filppula-Hossa-Franzen

Leino-Helm-Abdelkader

Maltby-Draper-Kopecky

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Stuart-Kronwall

Ericsson-Lilja(get well soon)

Osgood

Howard

Larsson

The only problem with that is your still 1.3 over the cap assuming that Hossa signs for 5, Leino for .875 and Kopy for .500. Those are pretty lowball figures....

[Doc Holiday 0]

What I am thinking is that Hudler and Samuelsson can be replaced.

Hudler-> Leino

Samuelsson-> Abdelkader or get one from the FA market.

Besides, I agree with you if Hossa asks more than 5.5

Hudler: yes.

Sammy: No. He is streaky but he has been streaky at some very effective times. Just don't put him on the PP anymore. And Abdelkader would be a significant downgrade in my opinion.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Double.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[Glubki 17]

The only problem with that is your still 1.3 over the cap assuming that Hossa signs for 5, Leino for .875 and Kopy for .500. Those are pretty lowball figures....

Assuming the cap stays the same too - we'll know in 10 days or so...

Every analyst I've heard talk about the cap says it will drop significantly in 2010/2011 as well.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Glubki

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

if it means getting rid of filpula then i really dont want to resign hossa, but if we get to keep flip then i say do waht it takes to re-sign hossa. I really dont understand why anybody would want ot get rid of one of the best players in the leauge for huds and sammy. i mean, if you thought hoss was invisible in the finals then what the hell do you call hudler?

well said. talks prior to SCF were allegedly saying hossa was looking for franzen type cap hit. after his playoffs, his stock definately went down, but huds was as useful as a wet fart. i've done nothing but stick up for hudler, but he was nowhere to be found and made his way to the 4th line quickly, and should have been in the press box so abby could play.

i agree with a comment that someone made that if hossa wants dats or z money to wave goodbye. as much as i like hossa, he can still be replaced with a really good player at the 4 mil payscale.

depending on the cap situation, holland wants hossa, leino, and helm to be on the team next year. abby spends one more season on grand rapids due to the retention of draper and maltby. sammy had a good year and i'd like to see him sign cheap and be a depth guy.

if i had things my way, the following players would be retiring:

maltby, draper, holmstrom, chelios(not signing anyways) and DMac.

after next year, all of the above may be gone. you'll see black aces graduate to the wings that don't already have roster spots next year.

[Johnny Law 15]

Assuming the cap stays the same too - we'll know in 10 days or so...

Every analyst I've heard talk about the cap says it will drop significantly in 2010/2011 as well.

That's going to be the 20,000 dollar question , my gut says they will do there best to keep it the same or limit the drop this year. However my much smarter brain looks at the numbers and doesn't see anything to be happy about though it could be worse look at the flyers two years down the road.

[Probie 7]

Theres one right way to build this team right now. Don't sign Hossa develop our young players and get our young boys locked up once they develop. If we sign Hossa where our we going to get the cap room to sign guys like Helm and Ericcson when they require more money??

Exactly, thats what Ive been saying to folks on this forum for a while now. Dats Z and Hossa, six years from now are going to be like 35-36 and cant be traded, and what do we do if we have other gems that need signing. Its a recipe for failure. We have too many softies on the team already, we need some bigger dudes that can still play the game well but get their nose dirty, work the corners well, and still score. Hossa doesnt fit, this is a bad move. What happens next year when Nash is a FA? Id take him over Hossa any day, the dude wont be 26 yet. Lock up a younger guy to one of those long contracts and dont stick 15 years of no trade clause years into his contract in case he might need to be removed down the road.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Probie

[Grim 5]

Its the D that burned us, imho. They barely handled Getzlaf in the Anaheim series and made the Pens look dangerous on practically every single rush. The Wings definitely must get tougher on D

[Probie 7]

Its the D that burned us, imho. They barely handled Getzlaf in the Anaheim series and made the Pens look dangerous on practically every single rush. The Wings definitely must get tougher on D

Yeah, its the same D that won us a cup last year though. Maybe its not the personal, but the d coach. The team didnt look like it had the same puck posession defensive style like last year. But anyways, yeah I would love to add a big physical shutdown D man.

[Grim 5]

Yeah, its the same D that won us a cup last year though.

True... but we can't count on Anaheim and Pittsburgh going away.