KHL will honor NHL's decision on Hudler

[pmason9195 0]

I don't see why people are comparing a center(Filppula) that was signed when we had money to spare, and a winger(Hudler) who we are trying to sign when we don't have a lot of money to spare. It's pretty simple, Filppula plays a important position for the Wing's(Center-PK), while Hudler plays a position that we can replace(2nd PP); albeit not as well. I don't hate Hudler, but in a salary cap world it sometimes isn't worth it to complete do back flips while on fire to sign a Winger. Face it if the Red Wing's thought Hudler was more valuable then Filppula we wouldn't be having this conversation. Obviously they think Hudler is a good player and want to keep him, but with the salary cap, tough decisions come once the players that come out of your system fully develop, there are bound to be loses.(Which is a major reason, I would love a salary decrease to resign a team's own draft picks, but that's another thread).

well said, i like hudler but being all of 5'4" i tend root for the smaller guy. huds never seemed quite right to me after the big hit against the ducks. great passer, good puck skills, but size did hurt him. sorry to see him go but cleary makes 2.5-3mil. huds needs to show a little more to me to be worth 4. that said if he can get 5 mil tax free in KHL i don't hold it against him. if i had the chance to more than triple what i made last year i think i'd do it.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why couldn't he just have signed a offer sheet with someone in the NHL!!!!!

That was what I wanted all along. I wanted draft picks for a player that is good, but never going to be as good with anyone else as he is here.

If Hudler had signed with another NHL team, he probably would have played on their first line.

You have to remember, if Hudler is going to another NHL team, he is playing in the top six, and very few NHL teams have a first line that wouldn't have a spot for Hudler. So at minimum he's gaining five minutes per game, or 50% of his even strength production. Which pushes him to about 30 goals and 70 points based on last season's output. That doesn't even account for the fact that instead of playing with guys like Kris Draper and Kirk Maltby he would be playing with offensively capable players. People on the board dish on him for being a PP specialist, but take a look at where he ranked compared to the rest of the team in PP scoring. If he has skilled linemates, the guy produces like crazy. Put him on a ******* scoring line.

[HudlerFanatic 4]

If Hudler had signed with another NHL team, he probably would have played on their first line.

You have to remember, if Hudler is going to another NHL team, he is playing in the top six, and very few NHL teams have a first line that wouldn't have a spot for Hudler. So at minimum he's gaining five minutes per game, or 50% of his even strength production. Which pushes him to about 30 goals and 70 points based on last season's output. That doesn't even account for the fact that instead of playing with guys like Kris Draper and Kirk Maltby he would be playing with offensively capable players. People on the board dish on him for being a PP specialist, but take a look at where he ranked compared to the rest of the team in PP scoring. If he has skilled linemates, the guy produces like crazy. Put him on a ******* scoring line.

What he said......

[Z and D for the C 712]

but take a look at where he ranked compared to the rest of the team in PP scoring.

Exactly where he should be, given his PP TOI.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fet...viewName=points

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fet...wName=timeOnIce

And same for the most part with the playoffs. But get this, he had twice as many powerplay points than Filppula, but more than twice the PP TOI! Crunch those numbers...

And eva seems to think that any player on the red wings could play at least one line higher on "another team" than they do on the wings, so extrapolating that into his logic, Hudler is really a second liner.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[Peleshob 0]

At this point, I do not care... if Jiri Hudler is on this team come October, awesome... if not... awesome. He's not as good or as bad as the extremists are making him out to be. He couldn't play on anyone's first line, btw... he's a good player, but he's not that good.

[eva unit zero 271]

At this point, I do not care... if Jiri Hudler is on this team come October, awesome... if not... awesome. He's not as good or as bad as the extremists are making him out to be. He couldn't play on anyone's first line, btw... he's a good player, but he's not that good.

You don't think he'd play first line in Atlanta? On the Rangers? The Islanders? Columbus? Nashville? Phoenix? St. Louis?

[RedArmy 4]

it is going to be hard to beat any Russian contract these days... Russian $2M is like American $3.5 or $4M... you have to keep in mind that the tax rate is much much lower in Russia. Since players aren't getting raped by gov't taxes, it is totally worth for them to sign for "less" in Russia. So unless wings give Huds at least $3M it isn't worth it for him ...

[uk_redwing 495]

You don't think he'd play first line in Atlanta? On the Rangers? The Islanders? Columbus? Nashville? Phoenix? St. Louis?

Aaron Downey could play on the first line of those teams. Not exactly an achievement.

[eva unit zero 271]

Aaron Downey could play on the first line of those teams. Not exactly an achievement.

Aaron Downey didn't even play first line in Grand Rapids. Nor would he play first line if he played for the Toledo Walleye.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Anyone here what date the arbitration hearing is?

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

I just wanna know when this will finally be decided.

[uk_redwing 495]

Aaron Downey didn't even play first line in Grand Rapids. Nor would he play first line if he played for the Toledo Walleye.

Actually Downey spent a surprising amount of time playing on the first line in Grand Rapids.

[Glubki 17]

I just wanna know when this will finally be decided.

July 31st is the hearing date...

[elriqo28 2]

Why should we want a player who obviously doesn't want to play for the Wings?

he wants to...he just wants s*** loads of money a little more. If someone offered me a lot more to do the same thing I'm doing, I'd probably do it. Either way, unless the arbitrator somehow says he is only worth 2.5mill (not likely to happen) then we have probably seen the last of good ole happy.

[Peleshob 0]

You don't think he'd play first line in Atlanta? On the Rangers? The Islanders? Columbus? Nashville? Phoenix? St. Louis?

Of all the teams you named I think the only one where he might legitimately deserve to be on the first line is the Islanders. Hudler doesn't have the speed to be a top line player. He's got great hands and a decent ability to find open players, but he gets himself muscled off the puck far too often.

I liked what I saw for awhile with him while he worked the corners. He was a bit Dastyuk-like with his stick-handling ability but in the playoffs he just got destroyed. Like I said, he's a good player and would be a solid addition to Detroit's second line, but I don't think he's a first line player in the NHL.

[eva unit zero 271]

Of all the teams you named I think the only one where he might legitimately deserve to be on the first line is the Islanders. Hudler doesn't have the speed to be a top line player. He's got great hands and a decent ability to find open players, but he gets himself muscled off the puck far too often.

I liked what I saw for awhile with him while he worked the corners. He was a bit Dastyuk-like with his stick-handling ability but in the playoffs he just got destroyed. Like I said, he's a good player and would be a solid addition to Detroit's second line, but I don't think he's a first line player in the NHL.

Hudler had 23 goals, 34 assists, and 57 points in 82 games.

The Rangers' leaders were:

Markus Naslund, 24 goals

Nikolai Zherdev, 35 assists

Nikolai Zherdev and Scott Gomez, 58 points

Zherdev also scored 23 goals; meaning he scored nearly identical numbers to Hudler with much greater ice time. Zherdev is also a weaker defensive player than Hudler. Zherdev is considered a first-line caliber player. But Hudler is clearly the better player, as he scored comparably in far less time and is better defensively.

That's just one example.

[Peleshob 0]

Hudler had 23 goals, 34 assists, and 57 points in 82 games.

The Rangers' leaders were:

Markus Naslund, 24 goals

Nikolai Zherdev, 35 assists

Nikolai Zherdev and Scott Gomez, 58 points

Zherdev also scored 23 goals; meaning he scored nearly identical numbers to Hudler with much greater ice time. Zherdev is also a weaker defensive player than Hudler. Zherdev is considered a first-line caliber player. But Hudler is clearly the better player, as he scored comparably in far less time and is better defensively.

That's just one example.

Which is all fine and good. But don't you think Hudler's numbers could be a little higher because of the team he plays on too? The Rags aren't exactly an explosive offensive team. Most of their winning was on the shoulders of a defensive game focusing on Lundqvist's ability. They don't really have quality offensive d-men (you could argue that maybe Rozsival is) and their offense was underwhelming as a whole.

It hasn't really been proven that Huds can handle 20+ minutes a night, which is what he'd be required to do as a first line player. Throwing out statistics of guys on an offensively disappointing team isn't going to do much in the way of convincing anyone that Jiri is a capable first line player.

[titanium2 867]

It hasn't really been proven that Huds can handle 20+ minutes a night, which is what he'd be required to do as a first line player.

Not just 20 minutes a night but also 20 minutes a night as a first line player against the best defensive forwards on a team along with the best defensemen and not on the power play.

[eva unit zero 271]

So let me get this straight. I can prove that Hudler would be a first liner on certain teams, but that doesn't count because those teams suck and don't have the forward depth Detroit does.

Maybe you guys missed it....but THAT WAS THE ******* POINT. Most teams do not have Detroit's forward depth and most teams cannot place guys like Hudler, Filppula, and Samuelsson on the third line. On pretty much every team in the league those three are top six forwards and on a great deal of teams those three play a first line role. You guys are sitting there saying that because Hudler was stuck on Detroit's third line that he's a third liner, even though he scored 23 goals and almost 60 points with barely more than ten minutes per game.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Hudler had 23 goals, 34 assists, and 57 points in 82 games.

The Rangers' leaders were:

Markus Naslund, 24 goals

Nikolai Zherdev, 35 assists

Nikolai Zherdev and Scott Gomez, 58 points

Zherdev also scored 23 goals; meaning he scored nearly identical numbers to Hudler with much greater ice time. Zherdev is also a weaker defensive player than Hudler. Zherdev is considered a first-line caliber player. But Hudler is clearly the better player, as he scored comparably in far less time and is better defensively.

That's just one example.

Q.E.D.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So let me get this straight. I can prove that Hudler would be a first liner on certain teams, but that doesn't count because those teams suck and don't have the forward depth Detroit does.

Maybe you guys missed it....but THAT WAS THE ******* POINT. Most teams do not have Detroit's forward depth and most teams cannot place guys like Hudler, Filppula, and Samuelsson on the third line. On pretty much every team in the league those three are top six forwards and on a great deal of teams those three play a first line role. You guys are sitting there saying that because Hudler was stuck on Detroit's third line that he's a third liner, even though he scored 23 goals and almost 60 points with barely more than ten minutes per game.

Don't get too upset Eva, you absolutely destroyed his argument (and "argument" is being generous).

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Not just 20 minutes a night but also 20 minutes a night as a first line player against the best defensive forwards on a team along with the best defensemen and not on the power play.

Huh? The best defensive forwards and best defensemen are facing him on the power play. How is it a world of difference to face those guys 5-on-5.

Also we're throwing the concept of line-matching out the window here. 95% of the teams don't match their #1 line up against the other team's #1 line.

[titanium2 867]

So let me get this straight. I can prove that Hudler would be a first liner on certain teams, but that doesn't count because those teams suck and don't have the forward depth Detroit does.

Maybe you guys missed it....but THAT WAS THE ******* POINT. Most teams do not have Detroit's forward depth and most teams cannot place guys like Hudler, Filppula, and Samuelsson on the third line. On pretty much every team in the league those three are top six forwards and on a great deal of teams those three play a first line role. You guys are sitting there saying that because Hudler was stuck on Detroit's third line that he's a third liner, even though he scored 23 goals and almost 60 points with barely more than ten minutes per game.

I actually have a hard time believing that most teams in the league are as open minded as the Wings and a lot of them probably would not have a 5'8 182 lb Euro who just can't skate fast enough as a permanent fixture on their top-6, let alone their top line, no matter how skilled he is or how many points he had as a red wing, the team that apparently makes players look better than they are. I suspect that a lot of bottom feeder teams wouldn't even get past the vitals as well as the scouting report on his skating ability and just dismiss him as "too small and slow."

...Did that glass of water just rumble?

[titanium2 867]

Huh? The best defensive forwards and best defensemen are facing him on the power play. How is it a world of difference to face those guys 5-on-5.

Well don't you have more time and space when there's only 4 guys up against you instead of 5?

Also we're throwing the concept of line-matching out the window here. 95% of the teams don't match their #1 line up against the other team's #1 line.

But that's why I said best defensive forwards, which could be on a team's 3rd, 4th, whatever line. Don't teams normally send out their best defensive forwards against the other team's top scoring line?

[eva unit zero 271]

the team that apparently makes players look better than they are.

Show me some proof of this. Hudler often played with players like Draper and Maltby who did NOT have offensive skill. Hudler typically had to create his own offense at even strength. On the second power play unit, Hudler was an extremely dangerous offensive force as a playmaker and as a scorer; He played a huge part in making that unit work. Perhaps it can be argued that the Wings made Hudler's numbers look better by providing players to finish for him on the power play, but by the same token, the Wings made Hudler's numbers worse by sticking Hudler on the third and fourth lines with guys who aren't scorers instead of on the first or second line with a guy who can score. If Hudler had been centering a line with Naslund and Zherdev, Hudler probably racks up 50 assists and 75-80 points.