Filppula 9th best Fin

[Guest Four]

I've been routing for Filppula all season, this next season coming up will be huge for him just wait.

[Wingseroo 0]

Anyone that doesnt have Kipper rated as one of the better goalies in the league is still sore from a playoff loss 5 years back... I mean honestly when you try knocking a guy down by saying "Well he is no Brodeur", I mean you are comparing him against the best goalie of the last 30 years... Roy wasnt as good as Brodeur... And Ed Belfour was a choke artist... Funny how a Turco would follow him in net at Dallas... I have 2.04 GAA average, and yet cant beat Detroit... They must be related... Ok so Kipper is not Brodeur (but then who is?), but it can be argued he is in company with pretty much the rest of the NHL's top goalies...

[miksteri 55]

Flames and Devils would do better in the playoffs if their goalies didnt play around 70gms per season.

[mmamolo 287]

1. No goalie in today's game should ever play that many games. No way they have enough gas in the tank to make any sort of deep playoff run.

2. Kiprusoff is a very good goalie. But I dont think he is elite. Really I think there are a handful of truly elite goaltenders in this league. Maybe Kiprusoff is on the bubble but with guys like Lundqvist, Backstrom, Luongo, and Brodeur around it's hard to rate Kiprusoff as highly just based on his inconsistency. Give credit where credit is due, when he is on he can easily steal games.

3. This is Filppula's chance to have a breakout year. He's going to get the ice time, the linemates and all the opportunity in the world to prove his worth. I think by the end of this season he will prove that he is worth the $3M he is making. Moving into the last three years of his deal I think we're all going to be laughing at what a steal he will be at that cap hit, just like we were with Zetterberg this and last year at a cap hit of ~$2.65M.

[eva unit zero 271]

Anyone that doesnt have Kipper rated as one of the better goalies in the league is still sore from a playoff loss 5 years back... I mean honestly when you try knocking a guy down by saying "Well he is no Brodeur", I mean you are comparing him against the best goalie of the last 30 years... Roy wasnt as good as Brodeur... And Ed Belfour was a choke artist... Funny how a Turco would follow him in net at Dallas... I have 2.04 GAA average, and yet cant beat Detroit... They must be related... Ok so Kipper is not Brodeur (but then who is?), but it can be argued he is in company with pretty much the rest of the NHL's top goalies...

The last time Kiprusoff posted a save percentage above .908, regular season or playoff, was the 2007 playoffs.

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 playoffs: 2-4, 3.52, .884

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 playoffs: 2-4, 3.21, .908

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 playoffs: 2-4, 2.81, .929

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 season: 45-24-5, 2.84, .903

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 season: 39-26-10, 2.69, .906

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 season: 40-24-9, 2.46, .917

Seriously...tell me how elite of a goaltender Kipper has been the past two seasons compared to what he was when he built his reputation. HE'S NOT AN ELITE GOALIE ANYMORE.

[Z and D for the C 712]

^ is .908 save % the global cutoff for elite?

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

But he has crappy hands

[eva unit zero 271]

^ is .908 save % the global cutoff for elite?

Let's compare something real quick then:

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 playoffs: 2-4, 3.52, .884

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 playoffs: 2-4, 3.21, .908

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 playoffs: 2-4, 2.81, .929

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 season: 45-24-5, 2.84, .903

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 season: 39-26-10, 2.69, .906

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 season: 40-24-9, 2.46, .917

Osgood's stats 2009 playoffs: 15-8, 2.01, .926

Osgood's stats 2008 playoffs: 14-4, 1.55, .930

Osgood's stats 2007 playoffs: Did not play (Hasek was starter)

Osgood's stats 2009 season: 26-9-8, 3.09, .887

Osgood's stats 2008 season: 27-9-4, 2.09, .914

Osgood's stats 2007 season: 11-3-6, 2.36, .907

So, since you have suggested that a save percentage of .908 is actually higher than elite and that the cutoff for elite is even lower than .908...then Osgood is elite, right? Since he posted such ridiculous postseason numbers? Not to mention he has cleared .910 8 times in 15 seasons, .907 10 times, and .903 11 times. That's an elite career, right?

Edited July 29, 2009 by eva unit zero

[Doggy 130]

Let's compare something real quick then:

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 playoffs: 2-4, 3.52, .884

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 playoffs: 2-4, 3.21, .908

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 playoffs: 2-4, 2.81, .929

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 season: 45-24-5, 2.84, .903

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 season: 39-26-10, 2.69, .906

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 season: 40-24-9, 2.46, .917

Osgood's stats 2009 playoffs: 15-8, 2.01, .926

Osgood's stats 2008 playoffs: 14-4, 1.55, .930

Osgood's stats 2007 playoffs: Did not play (Hasek was starter)

Osgood's stats 2009 season: 26-9-8, 3.09, .887

Osgood's stats 2008 season: 27-9-4, 2.09, .914

Osgood's stats 2007 season: 11-3-6, 2.36, .907

So, since you have suggested that a save percentage of .908 is actually higher than elite and that the cutoff for elite is even lower than .908...then Osgood is elite, right? Since he posted such ridiculous postseason numbers? Not to mention he has cleared .910 8 times in 15 seasons, .907 10 times, and .903 11 times. That's an elite career, right?

Why are you talking about Osgood now? This post makes no sense. It doesn't answer the question in any way.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Let's compare something real quick then:

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 playoffs: 2-4, 3.52, .884

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 playoffs: 2-4, 3.21, .908

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 playoffs: 2-4, 2.81, .929

Kiprusoff's stats 2009 season: 45-24-5, 2.84, .903

Kiprusoff's stats 2008 season: 39-26-10, 2.69, .906

Kiprusoff's stats 2007 season: 40-24-9, 2.46, .917

Osgood's stats 2009 playoffs: 15-8, 2.01, .926

Osgood's stats 2008 playoffs: 14-4, 1.55, .930

Osgood's stats 2007 playoffs: Did not play (Hasek was starter)

Osgood's stats 2009 season: 26-9-8, 3.09, .887

Osgood's stats 2008 season: 27-9-4, 2.09, .914

Osgood's stats 2007 season: 11-3-6, 2.36, .907

So, since you have suggested that a save percentage of .908 is actually higher than elite and that the cutoff for elite is even lower than .908...then Osgood is elite, right? Since he posted such ridiculous postseason numbers? Not to mention he has cleared .910 8 times in 15 seasons, .907 10 times, and .903 11 times. That's an elite career, right?

WOW you are FREAKING insane. Why the hell did you even just bring osgood into this? go back to the hole you crawled out of. It wasn't me suggesting .908 is some elite cutoff, YOU did when you arbitrarily picked .908 to compare Kiprusoff's past to his present for god knows why.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why are you talking about Osgood now? This post makes no sense. It doesn't answer the question in any way.

Answer this question:

Is Osgood an elite goaltender?

Now answer this question:

Is Kiprusoff an elite goaltender?

Based on what has been said in this thread and on this board, the second question would get more "Yes" answers than the first. Do you agree with that assessment? So why does Osgood have better stats, especially in the postseason?

I can bring up other goaltenders if you prefer, I just thought Osgood was a good comparison since he gets a lot of the "He's just a mediocre goaltender" crap and he has had a couple of incredible postseason runs in the past two years. Also of note regarding Kipper's wins numbers; Kiprusoff has 37 more wins and 35 more losses in regular season and playoff combined; meaning Osgood could have played the 70+ games difference and gone .500 and had as many wins as Kiprusoff over the past three seasons, and that includes the fact that Osgood has 23 more playoff wins and both goalies have 12 playoff losses.

If Kiprusoff still played the way he did in 2006-07 in the regular season and the playoffs, I would consider him an elite goaltender or at the very least close to it. But he has not been on that level in two years. Perhaps he has shown that level occasionally...but Osgood showed that level occasionally during the regular season. It didn't get him Vezina votes, did it?

[Doggy 130]

Answer this question:

Is Osgood an elite goaltender?

Now answer this question:

Is Kiprusoff an elite goaltender?

Based on what has been said in this thread and on this board, the second question would get more "Yes" answers than the first. Do you agree with that assessment? So why does Osgood have better stats, especially in the postseason?

I can bring up other goaltenders if you prefer, I just thought Osgood was a good comparison since he gets a lot of the "He's just a mediocre goaltender" crap and he has had a couple of incredible postseason runs in the past two years. Also of note regarding Kipper's wins numbers; Kiprusoff has 37 more wins and 35 more losses in regular season and playoff combined; meaning Osgood could have played the 70+ games difference and gone .500 and had as many wins as Kiprusoff over the past three seasons, and that includes the fact that Osgood has 23 more playoff wins and both goalies have 12 playoff losses.

If Kiprusoff still played the way he did in 2006-07 in the regular season and the playoffs, I would consider him an elite goaltender or at the very least close to it. But he has not been on that level in two years. Perhaps he has shown that level occasionally...but Osgood showed that level occasionally during the regular season. It didn't get him Vezina votes, did it?

I would answer yes to both questions.

Your statistical comaprisons are severed flawed and anyone with a brain should be able to see it. Just FYI, it took Curtis McElhinney 19 NHL appearances for Calgary to earn his first career win. Osgood's Detroit counterparts don't seem to have that much trouble getting frequent W's. I wonder why....

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Kiprusoff never played for the Sharks. You must be thinking of Calgary

But yes, i do remember that game. Kipper is a very on-and-off goalie. When hes on, dont plan on scoring more than 1 (or 2 if your lucky) goal on him. But when hes off his game is when fans like us start to question him.

[eva unit zero 271]

I would answer yes to both questions.

Your statistical comaprisons are severed flawed and anyone with a brain should be able to see it. Just FYI, it took Curtis McElhinney 19 NHL appearances for Calgary to earn his first career win. Osgood's Detroit counterparts don't seem to have that much trouble getting frequent W's. I wonder why....

In 2007-08, Curtis Joseph posted very similar stats to Kiprusoff while both were Flames. Joseph's stats were significantly worse this year with the Leafs, while Leaf starter Martin Gerber posted better numbers than Kiprusoff. In the season with Phoenix before Joseph moved to Calgary, he also posted worse numbers than in Calgary. In 2006-07 Joseph went 18-31-2 for the Yotes while Mikael Tellqvist went 11-11-3. So it could be argued that Kiprusoff's numbers would have also been much worse on Toronto or Phoenix than they were with the Flames.

To further that argument; let's suggest that Kiprusoff's shots per game increased by the same rate from 2007-08 to 06-07 and 08-09 that Joseph's did. This being 2.5 to 06-07 and 0.1 to 08-09. Assuming he posted the same save percentage, he would have faced 101 more shots in 06-07 and 42 fewer shots this past season, resulting in the following GAAs, respectively: 2.58 and 2.78 instead of 2.46 and 2.84. With regards to McElhinney...he's an AHL goaltender who is trying to break into the NHL. His stats are comparable to Jimmy Howard's at both level's, and Howard has yet to prove himself at the NHL level either. Using McElhinney as an argument for why Kiprusoff's stats shouldn't be used as an example is not a good argument; the best you can get with that is a counterpoint saying that Kiprusoff himself is not an NHL goaltender yet, simply a prospect with a high talent level who is in his 30s, a la Hasek in 91-92.