GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Toughness is great. Toughness without speed, hands or a shot is not. Points are better than PIMS. Doesn't matter on the 4th line. The Wings will never have long term problems with scoring because of their overall talent. There are no Bob Probert's in the NHL right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Welcome to LGW. It's good to have another pro-enforcer poster on our side. Believe me, we can use all the help we can get on this site trying to convince people that having toughness in the lineup is actually a good thing. Hope you have better luck than the rest of us do. thanx lol..i mean look at our past championship teams,they all included a balanced combination of skill and grit/toughness 2008-datsyuk,zetterberg,franzen,filppula,lidstrom-skill mccarty,drake,helm-grit 2002-yzerman,fedorov,larionov,lidstrom-skill shanahan,mccarty,draper,maltby-grit 1998-yzerman,fedorov,kozlov,lidstrom,larionov-skill shanahan,mccarty,kocur,lapointe,draper,maltby-grit 1997-yzerman,fedorov,kozlov,larionov-skill shanahan,mccarty,kocur,lapointe,draper,maltby,konstantinov-grit as for 2009/2010,i dont see much balance in our potential lineup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 well ik its a little late now w the bertuzzi signing, but some unsigned tough guys include: Scott Parker(the dude above) Andre Roy Mitch Fritz Andrew Peters Darren McCarty Jesse Boulerice Aaron Downey D.J. King are all horrible fighters, I don't know much about Fritz. The only 2 I would like at this point are King or Downey. Let Draper/Maltby have a few nights off and dress Downey some Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 are all horrible fighters, I don't know much about Fritz. The only 2 I would like at this point are King or Downey. Let Draper/Maltby have a few nights off and dress Downey some [/quote Id like Roy here,but obviously that isnt happening..Mitch Fritz was a rookie for the Islanders last year..i remember he fough Riley Cote and didnt do too bad if that tells u anything about him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 are all horrible fighters, I don't know much about Fritz. The only 2 I would like at this point are King or Downey. Let Draper/Maltby have a few nights off and dress Downey some yeah Scott Parker is a horrible fighter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 yeah Scott Parker is a horrible fighter Did he retire?thats what ive been hearing?maybe he went to the KHL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 yeah Scott Parker is a horrible fighter Yes I agree Scott Parker is a horrible fighter, he would just get angry and shake mofos. My roomate is a diehard Avs and we get the season pass, trust me when he was with the team I saw enough of his horrible hockey and even worse fighting techniques. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Yes I agree Scott Parker is a horrible fighter, he would just get angry and shake mofos. My roomate is a diehard Avs and we get the season pass, trust me when he was with the team I saw enough of his horrible hockey and even worse fighting techniques. Parker was a really good enforcer, his issue was injuries and some inconsistency. His biggest problem was that he was considered the next Bob Probert coming out of the minors. That is, until he literally ran into Bob Probert and was destroyed. He just never lived up to his tremendous hype, but he wasn't a horrible fighter by any stretch. He had really good power and size. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 The thread that never dies........The wings are coming off one goal loss in game 7 of the SCF, and at this point in time (as hard as it might be to believe) are favored in the Las Vegas sportsbooks to win the SCF again in 2010. 2009-2010 NHL Futures Odds – Odds to win 2010 Stanley Cup Finals DUCKS +2000 THRASHERS +7500 BRUINS +800 SABRES +3500 FLAMES +1800 HURRICANES +2000 BLACKHAWKS +1000 AVALANCHE +6500 BLUEJACKETS +3500 STARS +2500 REDWINGS +450 OILERS +3500 PANTHERS +3500 KINGS +5000 WILD +3500 CANADIENS +3000 PREDATORS +4500 DEVILS +1500 ISLANDERS +7500 RANGERS +2500 SENATORS +4000 FLYERS +1500 COYOTES +7500 PENGUINS +600 SHARKS +700 BLUES +3000 LIGHTNING +7500 MAPLELEAFS +5500 CANUCKS +1500 CAPITALS +1000 And yet, people on here continue to call for more grit/enforcers/fighters etc. without any regard for the fact that none of these types that remain have anything to offer in the skill department. Of the actual roster that contributes when it counts (by that I mean the playoffs), the Wings lose Hossa/Kopecky/Sammy/Hudler and pick up Williams/Eaves/Bertuzzi. Even with Williams what he is, taking into account that Helm and Ericsson are one year "grittier" combined with the net effect to the offseason, it's easily argued that they will be a grittier team next spring than last. I honestly think that if I was as disturbed by the way Holland constructs and runs this team as some of the "enforcer" mob on here is, I'd either find a new team or new sport to follow. Part of being as fan is enjoying the journey............and with some of you, thats a ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 The thread that never dies........The wings are coming off one goal loss in game 7 of the SCF, and at this point in time (as hard as it might be to believe) are favored in the Las Vegas sportsbooks to win the SCF again in 2010. And yet, people on here continue to call for more grit/enforcers/fighters etc. without any regard for the fact that none of these types that remain have anything to offer in the skill department. Of the actual roster that contributes when it counts (by that I mean the playoffs), the Wings lose Hossa/Kopecky/Sammy/Hudler and pick up Williams/Eaves/Bertuzzi. Even with Williams what he is, taking into account that Helm and Ericsson are one year "grittier" combined with the net effect to the offseason, it's easily argued that they will be a grittier team next spring than last. I honestly think that if I was as disturbed by the way Holland constructs and runs this team as some of the "enforcer" mob on here is, I'd either find a new team or new sport to follow. Part of being as fan is enjoying the journey............and with some of you, thats a ? Skill is overrated, especially when the roster is already full of it. Grit and toughness, however, are underrated on this forum. People don't realize that you can't win with a complete powder puff lineup, and thsi team hasn't won a Cup yet without some grit on the lower lines. Our lower lines have one gritty player right now, and that's Darren Helm. In a 7 game series, good luck expecting Williams and Leino to wear other teams down with their constant, punishing forechecking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 20, 2009 With Bert, the Wings have (re)signed the baddest goon in the league. Boogard might break someone's orbital bone now and then, but Bert has cheapshotted people, broken their neck and ended their carreer. If that ain't goonin', I don't know what is. And the Wings have him. The classy, skilled, Euro-centric, pass-happy Red Wings have (again) signed the league's greatest villian. My boy Kenny don't F around! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Ericsson, Bertuzzi and (sometimes) Abby this year sounds yummy! esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Skill is overrated, especially when the roster is already full of it. Grit and toughness, however, are underrated on this forum. People don't realize that you can't win with a complete powder puff lineup, and thsi team hasn't won a Cup yet without some grit on the lower lines. Our lower lines have one gritty player right now, and that's Darren Helm. In a 7 game series, good luck expecting Williams and Leino to wear other teams down with their constant, punishing forechecking. It's easy to say that the Wings won't win since any team vs. the rest of the league is a poor proposition. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which team in either conference is a better team. I maintain that in a head to head match-up vs any other team in the league, they'd be favored to win a 7 game series. Yea, this in spite of the fact that they're a bunch of soft Euro *******.....they're still the team to beat. I think that fact alone pisses alot of you guys off. The positions of the mob mentality would carry alot more weight if the team wasn't so good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Ericsson, Bertuzzi and (sometimes) Abby this year sounds yummy! esteef Agreed! Heck, the Wings might have enough regular season toughness this year to rub off on the soft, skilled prima-donnas who are expected to light it up in the playoffs. Maybe this year our best Euro-weakilings won't quit playing before the Cup is raised? I kinda doubt it, but I sure hope so! Bring the Cup home, boys! Show current Stanley Cup Champions Crosby and Godard that we're just as good as they are! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted August 20, 2009 It's easy to say that the Wings won't win since any team vs. the rest of the league is a poor proposition. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which team in either conference is a better team. I maintain that in a head to head match-up vs any other team in the league, they'd be favored to win a 7 game series. Yea, this in spite of the fact that they're a bunch of soft Euro *******.....they're still the team to beat. I think that fact alone pisses alot of you guys off. The positions of the mob mentality would carry alot more weight if the team wasn't so good. Nah, I think the deffending (current) STANLEY CUP CHAMPION PITTSBURGH PENGUINS CAPTAINED BY SIDNEY CROSBY< PROTECTED BY ERIC GODARD are the team to beat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 It's easy to say that the Wings won't win since any team vs. the rest of the league is a poor proposition. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to which team in either conference is a better team. I maintain that in a head to head match-up vs any other team in the league, they'd be favored to win a 7 game series. Yea, this in spite of the fact that they're a bunch of soft Euro *******.....they're still the team to beat. I think that fact alone pisses alot of you guys off. The positions of the mob mentality would carry alot more weight if the team wasn't so good. Yeah, because we actually want the Wings to lose. That's why I was so happy after game 7. I never said the Wings weren't a good team, I just don't think we're the most complete team as far as weaknesses go. The Pens are a more complete team than the Wings right now in terms of skill and grit. The Hawks might also be in the same boat. It's easier to win the Cup with some grit on the lower lines than having no grit on the lower lines. That's just my point and I don't see how anyone can disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 The thread that never dies........The wings are coming off one goal loss in game 7 of the SCF, and at this point in time (as hard as it might be to believe) are favored in the Las Vegas sportsbooks to win the SCF again in 2010. 2009-2010 NHL Futures Odds – Odds to win 2010 Stanley Cup Finals DUCKS +2000 THRASHERS +7500 BRUINS +800 SABRES +3500 FLAMES +1800 HURRICANES +2000 BLACKHAWKS +1000 AVALANCHE +6500 BLUEJACKETS +3500 STARS +2500 REDWINGS +450 OILERS +3500 PANTHERS +3500 KINGS +5000 WILD +3500 CANADIENS +3000 PREDATORS +4500 DEVILS +1500 ISLANDERS +7500 RANGERS +2500 SENATORS +4000 FLYERS +1500 COYOTES +7500 PENGUINS +600 SHARKS +700 BLUES +3000 LIGHTNING +7500 MAPLELEAFS +5500 CANUCKS +1500 CAPITALS +1000 And yet, people on here continue to call for more grit/enforcers/fighters etc. without any regard for the fact that none of these types that remain have anything to offer in the skill department. Of the actual roster that contributes when it counts (by that I mean the playoffs), the Wings lose Hossa/Kopecky/Sammy/Hudler and pick up Williams/Eaves/Bertuzzi. Even with Williams what he is, taking into account that Helm and Ericsson are one year "grittier" combined with the net effect to the offseason, it's easily argued that they will be a grittier team next spring than last. I honestly think that if I was as disturbed by the way Holland constructs and runs this team as some of the "enforcer" mob on here is, I'd either find a new team or new sport to follow. Part of being as fan is enjoying the journey............and with some of you, thats a ? o come on man seriously?how did we win in 2008?with skill AND grit.get real Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Nah, I think the deffending (current) STANLEY CUP CHAMPION PITTSBURGH PENGUINS CAPTAINED BY SIDNEY CROSBY< PROTECTED BY ERIC GODARD are the team to beat. The bookies disagree, but then again, what do they know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 o come on man seriously?how did we win in 2008?with skill AND grit.get real I'd prefer to think that the path to the finals was the difference ibetween 2008 and 2009. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 I'd prefer to think that the path to the finals was the difference ibetween 2008 and 2009. skill+grit=championships take a look at history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 skill+grit=championships take a look at history Most of history is pre salary cap. The days of going out and selectively picking each piece of the puzzle are long gone. Nobody plays the game better than Holland.........take a look at history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 Most of history is pre salary cap. The days of going out and selectively picking each piece of the puzzle are long gone. Nobody plays the game better than Holland.........take a look at history. i never said anything about holland..i said througout history(and yes,even post-lockout)the teams that have been successful are the teams that have that perfect balance of skill and grit..and y dnt u point out our the massive amount of grit 4 me 2 go w the skill...and leino doesnt count as grit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soonboomer 31 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 i never said anything about holland..i said througout history(and yes,even post-lockout)the teams that have been successful are the teams that have that perfect balance of skill and grit..and y dnt u point out our the massive amount of grit 4 me 2 go w the skill...and leino doesnt count as grit I have nothing against grit and physical play, but you can't just pick up two or three downey's each year and expect to win. Sure, the entertainment value during the regular season is great. But in past years, and I'm sure there has been an exception or two, the gritty toughs that the wings have had have also been hockey players. You guys think the Pens are a better team....I just happen to disagree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 I have nothing against grit and physical play, but you can't just pick up two or three downey's each year and expect to win. Sure, the entertainment value during the regular season is great. But in past years, and I'm sure there has been an exception or two, the gritty toughs that the wings have had have also been hockey players. You guys think the Pens are a better team....I just happen to disagree. well i hate to say it but last year they were and im not saying we need a lineup filled w Derek Boogaards, but i think we need a guy that will stick up for his teammates,and,like u said,can play the game too..weve got the skill,wo a doubt,but we need that gritty guy that can play as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted August 20, 2009 I just wish this thread would diieeeeeee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
