That depends on the league's definition of 'Automatic'

[Guest micah]

If the league would just drop that silly instigator rule and let people fight who they want when they want to like they did for most of it's history, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[egroen 384]

If that's what you believe then you were not paying attention a couple years back when this rule came to be. This rule exists solely to curb "message sending" by frustrated thugs at the end of games, NOT to punnish organic fights by people who are not known as s***-stirrers. The rule could be worded better, but anyone wha was paying attention when they league came up with the rule would know that it was understood that it would not apply in cases other than late game bullying by thugs.

Then I question your statements about your fights earlier in life if you think that was merely a "heat of the moment fight" between two willing combatants -- which anyone who has been in one knows it was not. Zetterberg is a smaller, skilled player whom has not been in a single fight in his NHL career, whom happened to be the #1 thorn in Pittsburgh's side the past two Finals. If you do not think Malkin singled him out, started wailing on him and instigated to "send a message" you have never sent a message yourself. It is as clear as day to me. "Thugs" are not the only players capable of getting frustrated and wanting to send a message.

It's a stupid rule that should be abolished, and the NHL's subjective handling of it only nails it home.

Edited November 5, 2009 by egroen

[b.shanafan14 733]

Then I question your statements about your fights earlier in life if you think that was merely a "heat of the moment fight" between two willing combatants -- which anyone who has been in one knows it was not. Zetterberg is a smaller, skilled player whom has not been in a single fight in his NHL career, whom happened to be the #1 thorn in Pittsburgh's side the past two Finals. If you do not think Malkin singled him out, started wailing on him and instigated to "send a message" you have never sent a message yourself. It is as clear as day to me. "Thugs" are not the only players capable of getting frustrated and wanting to send a message.

It's a stupid rule that should be abolished, and the NHL's subjective handling of it only nails it home.

Exactly. They said it wasn't in the spirit of the rule, which was message sending at the end of games, but message sending and frustration was exactly what it was.

The rule is a joke and a great example of the league which has become a joke. The rule says "automatic" for instigation of a fight. If it was just a fight, there wouldn't have been an instigation penalty and therefore, no AUTOMATIC suspension.

The league exposed itself for favoring certain players, because the situation was no different than any other that warrants and actually receives the automatic suspension.

All rules should either be enforced to the word of the law or be abolished, in all sports, because when they become this subjective, its the league playing favorites and essentially favoring an outcome.

[mmamolo 287]

Personally at the time I felt as though the league was playing favourites with Malkin. Now I'm well over it. The problem lies within the wording of the rule. If the sole purpose of the rule is to negate 'goons' from sending a message at the end of the game then that's all fine and good. However the way the rule is stated, and if you read in between the lines, it's to stop anyone from sending a message at the end of a game by instigating a fight. That being said, at times motivations for your actions don't matter. Whether you believe Malkin was tryign to send a message to Zetterberg or not the fact is he was given an instigator penalty by the referee. It doesnt make sense to give the referee the discretion to make the call only to reverse it later because Campbell deems it unfit to qualify for the rule.

For me a rule is a rule and should be enforced whether your name is Pavel Datsyuk or Chris Simon. There was absolutely no doubt in my mind Malkin all but forced Zetterberg to fight in that situation and was appropriately given an instigator penalty. It should have been enforced.

On top of that, for anyone to say that says the non suspension didn't play a factor into the series is ill informed. Malkin came back with 3 assists in game 3 including setting up the Gonchar winning goal.

Sad fact is there are different rules for different ppl. I can accept that but that doesn't mean I wont question things when they happen. Conspiracy theories aside.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Then I question your statements about your fights earlier in life if you think that was merely a "heat of the moment fight" between two willing combatants -- which anyone who has been in one knows it was not. Zetterberg is a smaller, skilled player whom has not been in a single fight in his NHL career, whom happened to be the #1 thorn in Pittsburgh's side the past two Finals. If you do not think Malkin singled him out, started wailing on him and instigated to "send a message" you have never sent a message yourself. It is as clear as day to me. "Thugs" are not the only players capable of getting frustrated and wanting to send a message.

It's a stupid rule that should be abolished, and the NHL's subjective handling of it only nails it home.

Funny, you weren't saying the same thing when Franzen went after Malkin the year prior. Was Franzen "sending a message" too?

[RusDRW 155]

Wowww!!! If a goonery is initiated by a star player it is no longer a goonery! What a logic by NHL! We may stop here. However, if we would continue... what is about the definition of a goon then? 150 minutes in the box is enough? 200? more? What is about the definition of a star player? 50 points are ok? Where is this stuff in the rulebook?

[mmamolo 287]

Wowww!!! If a goonery is initiated by a star player it is no longer a goonery! What a logic by NHL! We may stop here. However, if we would continue... what is about the definition of a goon then? 150 minutes in the box is enough? 200? more? What is about the definition of a star player? 50 points are ok? Where is this stuff in the rulebook?

This quote hits the nail on the head. A rule is a rule no matter who commits the infraction. The problem with officiating in the NHL (suspensions and discipline included) has and will always be consistency. Consistency for all players and consistency throughout the course of a game. I cant tell you how many times I'd see an interference call not made on a defenseman for obstructing a forechecknig forward entering the zone in the first two periods only to be made in the third with 10 minutes to go in a one goal game.

Consistency is the key and the NHL has none

[egroen 384]

Funny, you weren't saying the same thing when Franzen went after Malkin the year prior. Was Franzen "sending a message" too?

Honestly, I don't even remember it... did he get an instigator in the final minutes?

[Guest micah]

Then I question your statements about your fights earlier in life if you think that was merely a "heat of the moment fight" between two willing combatants -- which anyone who has been in one knows it was not. Zetterberg is a smaller, skilled player whom has not been in a single fight in his NHL career, whom happened to be the #1 thorn in Pittsburgh's side the past two Finals. If you do not think Malkin singled him out, started wailing on him and instigated to "send a message" you have never sent a message yourself. It is as clear as day to me. "Thugs" are not the only players capable of getting frustrated and wanting to send a message.

It's a stupid rule that should be abolished, and the NHL's subjective handling of it only nails it home.

Zetterberg is shorter but stronger than Malkin, they have the same weight. Malkin had never been in an NHL fight before Zetterberg. Zetterberg was every bit as involved in that fight as Malkin was - Zetts was pushing and shoving and had a firm hold on Malkin's sweater - strange choices to make if you're not willing to fight. Zetterberg knows how to avoid a fight, dive on the ice and cover your head - he's seen Franzen do it plenty of times.

This was intended from the start to be a subjective call. I agree that it's a stupid rule, but I'll take sensible discretion over zero tollerance policies every day of the week.

[swedishconnection 36]

This was intended from the start to be a subjective call. I agree that it's a stupid rule, but I'll take sensible discretion over zero tollerance policies every day of the week.

This. Just like 7/11.

[egroen 384]

Zetterberg is shorter but stronger than Malkin, they have the same weight. Malkin had never been in an NHL fight before Zetterberg. Zetterberg was every bit as involved in that fight as Malkin was - Zetts was pushing and shoving and had a firm hold on Malkin's sweater - strange choices to make if you're not willing to fight. Zetterberg knows how to avoid a fight, dive on the ice and cover your head - he's seen Franzen do it plenty of times.

This was intended from the start to be a subjective call. I agree that it's a stupid rule, but I'll take sensible discretion over zero tollerance policies every day of the week.

Bolded - LOL

Your fight card is under dispute.

The subjectivity should be in the hands of the on-ice refs, who saw it exactly as most non-Pens fans saw it, and issued an instigator penalty knowing full well the implications of it at that point in the game.

It's one of the few occassions where the NHL has basically stated an on-ice ref botched a penalty.

Edited November 5, 2009 by egroen

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

It doesn't matter if the intent of the rule is to stop "message sending" or not. It is in the rulebook stating that any player with an instigator penalty in the final few minutes of the game will receive in automatic suspension. Players are aware of this being in the rule book, and whether it is a stupid rule (which I think it is) or not, it must be followed. A player who receives an instigator penalty knows full well that the rules call for an automatic suspension and he should be ready to receive it if he chooses to instigate. This rule does not necessarily attempt to end fighting, which some people seem to think it does. No one will be suspended for fighting. The suspension is for INSTIGATING the fight when someone else doesn't want to participate.

[Nev 1,085]

Funny, you weren't saying the same thing when Franzen went after Malkin the year prior. Was Franzen "sending a message" too?

Franzen didn't go after Malkin - the Pens were gooning it up at the end of a game when they had their asses handed to them on a platter. Sykora ran Osgood, Roberts started a fight with Datsyuk, and Franzen ended up on top of Malkin in the ensuing scrum. The only team trying to "send a message" where the Pens

[egroen 384]

Oh, that???

I guess I fail to see the correlation there.

1) Detroit was winning

2) Osgood was run, which prompted the whole thing

3) No instigators were assessed

4) Franzen was not even issued a fighting major

5) Nor was he issued a misconduct (like Malkin in 09)

Pittsburgh was issued 5 penalties, including 2 misconducts at the end of that game, while Detroit received 3 minor penalties for roughing.

[PotbellyJoe 10]

It's worth a watch.

Starts with the Lucic suspension in the playoffs. Went from there to call out the favoritism.