NHL vs Free Streams

[Chunkylover 26]

So my question to each of you is this: As the NHL is a business (and so are the teams it represents), is it in their best interest to continue to shut down free streams online, or should they allow or promote free streams to improve fanbases?

Yes, it is always best for a person to reap the benefits of their labor and defend their ability to do so.

Technically the free-streamers are not only stealing from the league, their favorite team, and their favorite player, but they are stealing from everyone else who pays for Center-Ice, DirecTV, Comcast, et cetera, because without us paying our cable or satellite bills, there would be no feed for them to stream. Theft is never right.

If someone can't afford to pay to watch the team play they should ask their friends or family for help, not their government (speaking generally) or resort to larceny (speaking both generally and specifically). Property rights is what has made Western Civilization so successful.

If a person is concerned with the growth of the fan base, they should do their own part by encouraging peers to get involved with the game. Grassroots efforts are always more successful than top-down micro-management (both generally and topic-specifically).

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Yes, it is always best for a person to reap the benefits of their labor and defend their ability to do so.

Technically the free-streamers are not only stealing from the league, their favorite team, and their favorite player, but they are stealing from everyone else who pays for Center-Ice, DirecTV, Comcast, et cetera, because without us paying our cable or satellite bills, there would be no feed for them to stream. Theft is never right.

If someone can't afford to pay to watch the team play they should ask their friends or family for help, not their government (speaking generally) or resort to larceny (speaking both generally and specifically). Property rights is what has made Western Civilization so successful.

If a person is concerned with the growth of the fan base, they should do their own part by encouraging peers to get involved with the game. Grassroots efforts are always more successful than top-down micro-management (both generally and topic-specifically).

I would agree to this, if there were another option to be nice to the NHL. They haven't given fans an option. Even if we do pay them money for online streams we can't watch them. Watching illegally, in protest, is the only option we have left open.

They (and you) don't get it... You've got a thread full of people willing to pay them money, if they'd get their heads out of their asses.

[Chunkylover 26]

I would agree to this, if there were another option to be nice to the NHL. They haven't given fans an option. Even if we do pay them money for online streams we can't watch them. Watching illegally, in protest, is the only option we have left open.

They (and you) don't get it... You've got a thread full of people willing to pay them money, if they'd get their heads out of their asses.

I don't understand how you don't have an option to watch them. If you really are willing to pay, there's Center Ice on either cable or satellite (which means no matter where you are you can get a feed), if you are out of the Detroit viewing area you are can get the NHL.com stream and the game won't be blacked out.

I agree that a team-specific package is a great idea, and that in this economy $150 is a lot (it's the reason I don't currently have Center Ice), but to say they haven't offered the options is not accurate.

[redwingmachine 189]

Guys, check out hockeystreams.com. I learned about this stream site from other LGW’ers and I signed up! I too am a loyal wings fan from a far away land (Chicago) , I could only get the Wings when Vs would host them and of course the low quality free stream sites. What makes hoceystreams better than center ice is: #1) no blackouts, #2) Archived games #3) Playoff Games. For me the choice was simple, $100.00 for 365 days of hockey, on my schedule. They also offer a lower quality stream for less but IMO the 900Kbs streams are just fine.

GO WINGS!!

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I don't understand how you don't have an option to watch them. If you really are willing to pay, there's Center Ice on either cable or satellite (which means no matter where you are you can get a feed), if you are out of the Detroit viewing area you are can get the NHL.com stream and the game won't be blacked out.

I agree that a team-specific package is a great idea, and that in this economy $150 is a lot (it's the reason I don't currently have Center Ice), but to say they haven't offered the options is not accurate.

Heh... your suggesting TV. Ok...

Lets start off by saying I don't own a TV, haven't for 2 years, and have no interest in purchasing one. I grew up with TV, and don't see the investment.

$150 for a cheap POS TV (though if I were... it certainly wouldn't be a $150 TV)

$45-70 per month to get cable

and I still won't be able to watch most of the games CAUSE I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA.

The $150 isn't what it costs them, it's what some accountant has decided is the breaking point between TV and internet.

[Chunkylover 26]

Heh... your suggesting TV. Ok...

Lets start off by saying I don't own a TV, haven't for 2 years, and have no interest in purchasing one. I grew up with TV, and don't see the investment.

$150 for a cheap POS TV (though if I were... it certainly wouldn't be a $150 TV)

$45-70 per month to get cable

and I still won't be able to watch most of the games CAUSE I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA.

The $150 isn't what it costs them, it's what some accountant has decided is the breaking point between TV and internet.

So it's really your own choice that prevents you from watching hockey, not Bettman's.

I lived in VA for three years and had no trouble watching the Wings on TV ($600 in 2003), with DirecTV (~$90 a month including the sports package). Was it expensive? You can do the math. I got to watch the Wings so it was money well spent.

If you have a decent job $150 really isn't that much is it?

[Opie 308]

So it's really your own choice that prevents you from watching hockey, not Bettman's.

I lived in VA for three years and had no trouble watching the Wings on TV ($600 in 2003), with DirecTV (~$90 a month including the sports package). Was it expensive? You can do the math. I got to watch the Wings so it was money well spent.

If you have a decent job $150 really isn't that much is it?

Other sports have nationally broadcast games for free, if not nightly, multiple nights an evening.

NHL on Versus which is missing in how many households?

So I buy CenterIce, and the NHLnetwork is covering the game, what next?

Or it is on Versus?

The NBA is on TNT, ESPN weekly, MLB is on ESPN nightly (I know baseball is a different beast 162 games), every weekend I see the NFL for free on at least 3 channels on at least 2 nights. All for free, and lots of times there are double headers.

I travel for my job from time to time. I cannot login to CenterIce from the hotel, but I can get Hockeystreams on my laptop or any computer for that matter.

Hockeystreams is a third of the price of CenterIce and has archiving, and 0 blackouts.

No way I pay for CenterIce.

And I could afford the CenterIce if I could guaranty that I am at my TV and not watching something else every night the Wings are on, and I am pretty sure the Fiancee would have a little something to say about that.

[beepbeep 3]

I have paid for NHL Center ice every year from middle of the 1997 season when I first heard about it. This year I did not sign up for it and if the free stuff stops then I guess I will stop watching all together. The reason I refuse to pay to watch is because the f***in officiating is so ******* bad it drives me nuts. So f***um til they fix it. Not gonna PAY someone to drive me nuts.

[Chunkylover 26]

Other sports have nationally broadcast games for free, if not nightly, multiple nights an evening.

NHL on Versus which is missing in how many households?

So I buy CenterIce, and the NHLnetwork is covering the game, what next?

Or it is on Versus?

The NBA is on TNT, ESPN weekly, MLB is on ESPN nightly (I know baseball is a different beast 162 games), every weekend I see the NFL for free on at least 3 channels on at least 2 nights. All for free, and lots of times there are double headers.

I travel for my job from time to time. I cannot login to CenterIce from the hotel, but I can get Hockeystreams on my laptop or any computer for that matter.

Hockeystreams is a third of the price of CenterIce and has archiving, and 0 blackouts.

No way I pay for CenterIce.

And I could afford the CenterIce if I could guaranty that I am at my TV and not watching something else every night the Wings are on, and I am pretty sure the Fiancee would have a little something to say about that.

You're trying to justify stealing.

If you travel, get a DVR, I have one they're great. If you don't want a DVR get a DVD recorder; it'll cost less than a hundred bucks. I have one of those, they're great.

The Versus thing is obviously crappy, but it's also obviously a spat between Comcast and DirecTV, what can the NHL do about that?

The NHL is nationally televised for free, once Football season ends. Why? Because it's more popular than hockey. If hockey fans would boycott the NFL instead of the NHL we might see some progress.

Instead, all I hear are people saying, "Yes, there are plenty of options available, but I don't want to spend the money to support the game I love, so instead I'm going to steal from them."

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

You're trying to justify stealing.

If you travel, get a DVR, I have one they're great. If you don't want a DVR get a DVD recorder; it'll cost less than a hundred bucks. I have one of those, they're great.

The Versus thing is obviously crappy, but it's also obviously a spat between Comcast and DirecTV, what can the NHL do about that?

The NHL is nationally televised for free, once Football season ends. Why? Because it's more popular than hockey. If hockey fans would boycott the NFL instead of the NHL we might see some progress.

Instead, all I hear are people saying, "Yes, there are plenty of options available, but I don't want to spend the money to support the game I love, so instead I'm going to steal from them."

LOL plunty of "options"... there's (sort of) two.

1. Own a tv and pay to have 5 separate channels in your house (IF you can get them). You'll be lucky to see the full season.

2. Pay $150 for CenterIce and miss blacked out games and roughly 80% of playoff games

My option is

3. Don't pay, send a message. Do you really think the NHL cares what you think as long as you keep padding their pocketbooks?

I'm willing to pay, and have gotten CenterIce before. I'll watch free games till the NHL either gets off their ass and gets rid of them, or offers me something I'm WILLING to pay for. I'm NOT willing to pay for buttons advertising a live game that isn't available. Either way, they'll have to do something.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CaliWingsNut

[Chunkylover 26]

LOL plunty of "options"... there's (sort of) two.

1. Own a tv and pay to have 5 separate channels in your house (IF you can get them). You'll be lucky to see the full season.

2. Pay $150 for CenterIce and miss blacked out games and roughly 80% of playoff games

My option is

3. Don't pay, send a message. Do you really think the NHL cares what you think as long as you keep padding their pocketbooks?

I'm willing to pay, and have gotten CenterIce before. I'll watch free games till the NHL either gets off their ass and gets rid of them, or offers me something I'm WILLING to pay for. I'm NOT willing to pay for buttons advertising a live game that isn't available. Either way, they'll have to do something.

I actually considered dropping my cable bill in favor of the on-line streaming of games through NHL.com, but figured that regional blackouts might apply. Is this what you're referring to, because the televised Center Ice package doesn't have blackouts unless you get the local feed already. At least it didn't for me as recently as the '08-'09 playoffs.

Granted the VS. thing is a problem (but not the NHL or Bettman's fault), but I believe the NHL network is part of the standard DirecTV package. I don't know what you mean by five separate channels. I never missed a televised game, except certain one's in Nashville that weren't carried locally either.

Again, I appreciate the economic situation, but you aren't protesting by stealing a product that really is exceptional (I speak of the game in general in spite of occasional blown calls). You are actually working against the success of the game. What's possibly worse is that you are coarsening your conscience by justifying theft and supporting those who do.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I actually considered dropping my cable bill in favor of the on-line streaming of games through NHL.com, but figured that regional blackouts might apply. Is this what you're referring to, because the televised Center Ice package doesn't have blackouts unless you get the local feed already. At least it didn't for me as recently as the '08-'09 playoffs.

Granted the VS. thing is a problem (but not the NHL or Bettman's fault), but I believe the NHL network is part of the standard DirecTV package. I don't know what you mean by five separate channels. I never missed a televised game, except certain one's in Nashville that weren't carried locally either.

Again, I appreciate the economic situation, but you aren't protesting by stealing a product that really is exceptional (I speak of the game in general in spite of occasional blown calls). You are actually working against the success of the game. What's possibly worse is that you are coarsening your conscience by justifying theft and supporting those who do.

Response to bolded section: It's NHL's network, It's NHL's game... Why the hell is it blacked out? I paid to see that game.

NHL network plays 40 games a season, that's not even half of one team's games. It's little more than a way for the NHL to get people to pay for highlights, since they lost that when Bettman/owners decided that ESPN sucks. It costs 5-10 dollars a month on time-warner, which is only $60-120 a year. That's on top of 40-75 ($480-900/year) for cable. If I lived in detroit, and went to the 9$ games I could potentially pay LESS.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CaliWingsNut

[Chunkylover 26]

Response to bolded section: It's NHL's network, It's NHL's game... Why the hell is it blacked out? I paid to see that game.

NHL network plays 40 games a season, that's not even half of one team's games. It's little more than a way for the NHL to get people to pay for highlights, since they lost that when Bettman/owners decided that ESPN sucks. It costs 5-10 dollars a month on time-warner, which is only $60-120 a year. That's on top of 40-75 ($480-900/year) for cable. If I lived in detroit, and went to the 9$ games I could potentially pay LESS.

I feel you, but, and this is just me, not trying to attack you, but I could not justify myself watching the free streams. From both a moral standpoint, but also from the position that it hurts the league.

The best way to send a message is to actually send a message describing the situation, and how you feel it could be addressed. The more people you can personally persuade to follow your example, the more likely the message will be received. I can tell you right now, all the league hears from the free-streamers is, "I want to steal your product."

Trying to send a message by stealing the NHL's product is the kind of passive-aggressive stuff a child would do. It's wholly ineffective and in the end the person who is trying to send a valid message ends up looking worse that the other party.

[akustyk 84]

point being... if you know a way I could watch a game or three a week in high quality in Europe - name it, I'd gladly pay. it won't ruin my pocket.

so far I don't know any. and those justin.tv or sopcast stuff are overcrowded and offer poor quality.

in terms of official streams.... have yet to see what that is not limited to North America.

[redwingmachine 189]

point being... if you know a way I could watch a game or three a week in high quality in Europe - name it, I'd gladly pay. it won't ruin my pocket.

so far I don't know any. and those justin.tv or sopcast stuff are overcrowded and offer poor quality.

in terms of official streams.... have yet to see what that is not limited to North America.

What am i invisible or something?

Solution = hockeystreams.com

[dobbles 252]

chunky, i would argue that lots of people literally can't watch hockey because of the limits of satellite. lots of people in large cities cannot have directv or dish because they have no access to the satellite thanks to the obstructions. it is a pretty widespread problem for a lot of people. so without access to satellite, many folks are literally unable to watch most hockey coverage. many cable operators in the u.s. don't offer center ice at all. many don't offer the nhl network at all. some offer versus, but many put it in obscure packages that cost quite a bit more. so what are those people to do?

the point of this thread isn't that you need to take some absolutist moral high road about how evil people are that watch streams, its about the fact that the nhl does a terribly piss poor job at providing folks an avenue to watch hockey via tv and internet.

obviously, the nhl isn't popular enough to garner as much network broadcast coverage, but they make it hard even for folks with a semi decent cable or satellite package to see games. everyone on this message board loves hockey, so many of us are willing to shell out lots of money to make sure we can see games. but the nhl needs to grow as a sport, and making itself incredibly complicated to watch is not the way to do that. sure you can pick on some people in the thread and say its their choice not to spend hundreds of dollars a season to watch games, but its not really productive.

redwingmachine - pretty much everyone around here is familiar with hockeystreams, there is quite a long thread about it around here somewhere.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

chunky, i would argue that lots of people literally can't watch hockey because of the limits of satellite. lots of people in large cities cannot have directv or dish because they have no access to the satellite thanks to the obstructions. it is a pretty widespread problem for a lot of people. so without access to satellite, many folks are literally unable to watch most hockey coverage. many cable operators in the u.s. don't offer center ice at all. many don't offer the nhl network at all. some offer versus, but many put it in obscure packages that cost quite a bit more. so what are those people to do?

the point of this thread isn't that you need to take some absolutist moral high road about how evil people are that watch streams, its about the fact that the nhl does a terribly piss poor job at providing folks an avenue to watch hockey via tv and internet.

obviously, the nhl isn't popular enough to garner as much network broadcast coverage, but they make it hard even for folks with a semi decent cable or satellite package to see games. everyone on this message board loves hockey, so many of us are willing to shell out lots of money to make sure we can see games. but the nhl needs to grow as a sport, and making itself incredibly complicated to watch is not the way to do that. sure you can pick on some people in the thread and say its their choice not to spend hundreds of dollars a season to watch games, but its not really productive.

redwingmachine - pretty much everyone around here is familiar with hockeystreams, there is quite a long thread about it around here somewhere.

I am also one of these people but felt bringing it up wouldn't have mattered.

Edited November 20, 2009 by CaliWingsNut

[hokike 1]

I'm one of those who has not privilege to live in north-america and receive those über-satellite-whatever packages.

So, I have 2 options:

1. those free streams or

2. semi-legal hockeystream.

nuff said.

[Glubki 17]

Stealing? Yes it is and if I saw a fat person eating a dozen donuts I'd have no problem whisking past him and stealing a donut from his/her box. It's for their own good, from a financial perspective they should try to stop me but from a health standpoint they should just let it go

Immoral? Only the individual can judge his or her own morality in a fair and just manner.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Glubki

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

The NHL should be getting onto this.

[akustyk 84]

What am i invisible or something?

Solution = hockeystreams.com

yeah, I found your info later.

question: is it legal? meaning: if by paying those $ I do anyhow support the league.

because other than that I don't really care. it makes no difference than illegal streams,

except that I pay extra cash

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

yeah, I found your info later.

question: is it legal? meaning: if by paying those $ I do anyhow support the league.

because other than that I don't really care. it makes no difference than illegal streams,

except that I pay extra cash

Hockeystreams has no affiliation to the NHL. You are paying for their service of streaming (other's channels) vs. free streams. NHL sees no $.