Top 9 in 08'

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Does anyone remember what our top 3 lines looked like when we won the cup? If I remember correctly

ZDH were together

Franzen-Flip-Sammy ??

Cleary-xxx-Hudler

I cant remember but this is pretty much the same team as we had back then. We had 8 forwards with 40 points or more. If healthy, I believe we have seven that are capable. I'll honestly take Bertuzzi over Samuelsson. Hudler is the only loss.

The only thing about that year is that Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Osgood were dominant.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

You got the top 6 right.

Cleary played with Draper and Drake.

Hudler played with Helm and McCarty(then replaced by Maltby)

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I'm pretty sure in the Finals it was

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Drake-Draper-Samuelsson

Maltby-Helm-Hudler

But it was shuffled quite a bit, but I'd agree. Hudler is pretty much the only loss up front.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Hmm.. This begs the question... Why not go back to a similar formula?

[Finnish Wing 110]

People get older.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

People get older.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, and Filppula are that much older?

Im just saying

ZDH

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary/Bertuzzi

Eaves-Helm-Cleary/Bertuzzi

Williams-Draper-Abdelkader

could work better than having Miller drag down the Filppula line and having Williams drag down the Zetterberg line.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Does anyone remember what our top 3 lines looked like when we won the cup? If I remember correctly

ZDH were together

Franzen-Flip-Sammy ??

Cleary-xxx-Hudler

I cant remember but this is pretty much the same team as we had back then. We had 8 forwards with 40 points or more. If healthy, I believe we have seven that are capable. I'll honestly take Bertuzzi over Samuelsson. Hudler is the only loss.

The only thing about that year is that Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, and Osgood were dominant.

Hudler was with Helm and one of either drake/maltby/McCarty. It really is amazing how many points he put up on the 4th line that playoff run. I remember up until the Dallas series he was at a PPG

[titanium2 867]

I think a lot about 2008 and what they did right and why it's been so hard for them to look like that again as consistently as they were. I guess the truth is that a lot of the other teams not only got better but have found ways to really neutralize some of the things that the Wings do well, especially against the Wings best players. It's on them to adjust and find ways to be better.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

One thing that is bugging me on this forum is the discredit that the 08-09 team gets compared to the 07-08 team. In my minds the only reason why it was a diffirent outcome than the previous year was that Datsyuk was at about 60% and Hossa at 75%, coupled with Malkin not having broken ribs and actually being able to play to his ability.

I honestly belive that if paried head to head the 08-09 team would win 9 out of 10. The chemistry wasen't the problem, the injuries were just reversed.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, and Filppula are that much older?

interestingly, everybody on the team has aged exactly the same amount since the '07-'08 season.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

interestingly, everybody on the team has aged exactly the same amount since the '07-'08 season.

You're missing my point. I begged the question why not go back to similar line combos that we had in 07-08. FinnishWing responded by saying people get older. I said that about those four because they havent aged that much. You could argue that they are actually more into their prime now then they were in 08.

[titanium2 867]

You're missing my point. I begged the question why not go back to similar line combos that we had in 07-08.

As far as why not the first line isn't together anymore, I'm not so sure that the phenomenon we know of as the "Euro Twins" exists anymore. I'm really just speculating but for one, I think that last year changed a lot in regards to the mindsets of Pav and Z. For most of that year they led their own separate lines and with linemates that were consistently better than others they've had in the past. They were able to rack up a good amount of points on separate lines without each other's help; not to mention they had more time with the puck and better linemates. All in all they had some pretty good success in a situation in which they were both able to play their natural center position on separate lines. Guys like Pav, Z, Fil, Helm, and supposedly Abdelkader are natural centers that show a difference in effectiveness when they skate through the center of the ice as opposed to on the wing. They should play center. The get more responsibility but they also get the puck more. This year Pav and Z played together for some time and the magic wasn't there. You could attribute it to both of them just having an off year or Zetterberg looking like he's worn out or opponents are now better at defending them and that's definitely a part of the whole dynamic but I also think that maybe they've just changed in another way. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if they've simply gotten used to being the center on their own line that mainly controls the puck and have developed a taste for not having to share that role as much.

It was really strange for me to write all that because I've always said to keep the "Euro Twins" together and haven't bought any of the criticisms for why they should be on separate lines but now I might have a reason that I can believe. Perhaps they've evolved in such a way that the magic just isn't there anymore and maybe they each individually have to find a way to create a new kind of magic.

EDIT: Some links I posted didn't work for some reason.

Edited March 8, 2010 by titanium2

[Yzermania 156]

interestingly, everybody on the team has aged exactly the same amount since the '07-'08 season.

That's a bingo.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

One thing that is bugging me on this forum is the discredit that the 08-09 team gets compared to the 07-08 team. In my minds the only reason why it was a diffirent outcome than the previous year was that Datsyuk was at about 60% and Hossa at 75%, coupled with Malkin not having broken ribs and actually being able to play to his ability.

I honestly belive that if paried head to head the 08-09 team would win 9 out of 10. The chemistry wasen't the problem, the injuries were just reversed.

Wrong.

The 2008 team had a little more grit all season and played with more grit in the playoffs. The 2009 team, on the other hand, took too many nights off all season and didn't seem to have the same discipline and hunger needed to win. The physicality wasn't there in their game. They just played too soft on too many nights.

Even with the addition of Hossa, they were not a better team on the ice because of their work ethic.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Wrong.

The 2008 team had a little more grit all season and played with more grit in the playoffs. The 2009 team, on the other hand, took too many nights off all season and didn't seem to have the same discipline and hunger needed to win. The physicality wasn't there in their game. They just played too soft on too many nights.

Even with the addition of Hossa, they were not a better team on the ice because of their work ethic.

While I agree that that was the case in the regular season, as soon as it came down to the Playoffs, it was bussiness as usual. The Wing's beat a team specfically built to beat teams like us in the Ducks, and anihalted a "great" Chicago team.

That's just my opinion though, and I know It won't changes yours, but don't you think that if Hossa and Datsyuk were playing to their full ability than our fortunes would have been better? Let us not forget Game 3 in the SCF also, where if there was ever a game decided by the refs beforehand, that was it.

I just think that had we won, the team would have been remembered for how good it was. I mean freaking look at our offensive totals. In my mind that season will go down as an epic failure, but I really think that all things considered they still played fairly better. Let us not forget that though the Pens did lose Malone and Hossa, I honestly think they were better than the year before, seeing as Malkin wasen't useless and Malkin>Hossa, and the rest of their young core improved dramatically.

Edited March 8, 2010 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

While I agree that that was the case in the regular season, as soon as it came down to the Playoffs, it was bussiness as usual. The Wing's beat a team specfically built to beat teams like us in the Ducks, and anihalted a "great" Chicago team.

That's just my opinion though, and I know It won't changes yours, but don't you think that if Hossa and Datsyuk were playing to their full ability than our fortunes would have been better? Let us not forget Game 3 in the SCF also, where if there was ever a game decided by the refs beforehand, that was it.

Yeah, but the fact that they weren't playing to the best of their abilities means that it wasn't as good a team. They were better on paper, but not on the ice. The 2009 team will go down as a more skilled team, but ultimately not a better team.

In 2008, we didn't have many passengers in the playoffs. Everyone played well in those playoffs (even Lebda). Last year, however, too many guys had a bad playoffs and were just along for the ride.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Yeah, but the fact that they weren't playing to the best of their abilities means that it wasn't as good a team. They were better on paper, but not on the ice. The 2009 team will go down as a more skilled team, but ultimately not a better team.

In 2008, we didn't have many passengers in the playoffs. Everyone played well in those playoffs (even Lebda). Last year, however, too many guys had a bad playoffs and were just along for the ride.

Yeah, but they were both playing through serious injuries. I guess thats what just makes us diffirent, but in my mind, if you give us and the pen's the same health conditions of the year before (I.E. all of our stars fully capable, and Malkin broken Ribs) it would have been over in 5.

[Guest Crymson]

I'm pretty sure in the Finals it was

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Cleary

Drake-Draper-Samuelsson

Maltby-Helm-Hudler

But it was shuffled quite a bit, but I'd agree. Hudler is pretty much the only loss up front.

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Drake - Draper - Cleary

Hudler - Helm - Maltby

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Lilja - Lebda

Cleary was on a cold streak after missing a bunch of time with a shattered jaw. He wasn't on a scoring line during the playoffs.

Yeah, but the fact that they weren't playing to the best of their abilities means that it wasn't as good a team. They were better on paper, but not on the ice. The 2009 team will go down as a more skilled team, but ultimately not a better team.

In 2008, we didn't have many passengers in the playoffs. Everyone played well in those playoffs (even Lebda). Last year, however, too many guys had a bad playoffs and were just along for the ride.

Lidstrom, Rafalski, Ericsson, Cleary, Franzen, Holmstrom, Datsyuk and Hossa were all either playing injured or recovering from surgery, and Lilja was out for good. It'd be very hard for any team with that sort of injury rate to win a series. That they nearly won a seven game series even in spite of the horrid officiating was impressive.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Crymson