Confidence?

[titanium2 867]

I'm glad the Wings have a ton of experience that they can use to stay calm and collected in pressure situations. They believe in themselves and that's a really good characteristic in sports.

On the other side of that coin I thought we saw some behavior from the Wings that implied perhaps a pitfall from such an abundance of experience.

I stole these quotes from a thread on HF but they do make a concerning point.

It's not like the Wings haven't lost playoff games before, but it isn't like them not to work hard -- and yet that's what they were guilty of, especially in Sunday's loss. Dan Cleary said the Wings' "sense of urgency seems to rise as our backs are against the wall, or we're threatened with being in a terrible position. Certainly we're in it now."

http://freep.com/article/20100420/SPORTS05/4200374/1053/Sports05/Helene-St.-James-Best-Wings-must-play-better-tonight

"It seems every time our backs are against the wall, we always come up with a big effort," said forward Todd Bertuzzi, who had one goal and four assists. "Unfortunately, it takes that to get that out of us."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/05/game_4_victory_against_sharks.html

Doesn't it worry anybody else that the Wings locker room has that kind of attitude, culture, demeanor, overconfidence or whatever you want to call it? Cleary and Bertuzzi make it sound as if the tendency within the team is to set themselves up for failure.

[Guest mjtm77]

Little bit, but again the series was close. Its not like we got destroyed each game and the reffing thats another story

Edit- Remember we should have won this game if the ref could see. Sharks would not have scored and we would have got a pp. What does worry me is the amount of stupid Penalties we take.

Edited May 9, 2010 by mjtm77

[AIK'91 22]

Tonight's game kind of reminded me of Game 7 against Pittsburgh last year. Sometimes, it seems like the Wings' demeanor just exudes the belief that somehow they'll find a way to get that tying goal. Yet, for whatever reason, we never really do get that late goal in a game like this.

Don't get me wrong, you can still tell the Wings are working hard and making a concerted effort when it's a dire situation. But, whenever I watch a little bit of the '08 Cup run, something just seems a little different. As much as our guys still work hard (albeit, more so when their backs are against the wall), I never really liked our team quite as much after '08. To be honest, I thought we squeaked by and nearly won it all purely because of talent last season. And we would have won if we weren't plagued by so many injuries to key players.

I think it's just human nature really. Pretty much all our core players from '08 are the same. When you haven't won something before, you just have that bit of extra zeal and intensity. In hockey, I think that subconciously translates into winning a few more battles, finishing a few more checks and winning the races to a few more 50-50 pucks. Of course, the players would never admit it--not even to themselves. Obviously they still have every intent to work as hard as they can. It's just that, I think winning it all before can manifest itself into the type of confidence you're talking about. It kind of produces an attitude of "we'll be fine since we've done this before".

Sure, I'm upset about this loss. Especially considering Howard gave us such a great chance. But, I'm still proud of the guys for playing their best. From this loss, I think the team will realize again just how tough it is to go all the way. That should eliminate the negative aspects of the "confidence" you were talking about all while adding to our experience at the same time.

EDIT: And I should add, the fatigue from the amount of games we've played the past 3 seasons is certainly a factor--especially for our high-end guys.

Edited May 9, 2010 by AIK'91

[titanium2 867]

I think it's just human nature really. Pretty much all our core players from '08 are the same. When you haven't won something before, you just have that bit of extra zeal and intensity. In hockey, I think that subconciously translates into winning a few more battles, finishing a few more checks and winning the races to a few more 50-50 pucks. Of course, the players would never admit it--not even to themselves. Obviously they still have every intent to work as hard as they can. It's just that, I think winning it all before can manifest itself into the type of confidence you're talking about. It kind of produces an attitude of "we'll be fine since we've done this before".

If that is so, what does that imply about possible future playoff runs? That they simply won't get that far? That they'll need a roster overhaul of players who are hungry to win?

[AIK'91 22]

If that is so, what does that imply about possible future playoff runs? That they simply won't get that far? That they'll need a roster overhaul of players who are hungry to win?

Well, my gut tells me they should be fine. The best part about our team is that our best players (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom) are also our hardest working players at both ends of the rink. They don't take nights off--so that sets a good example for the rest of the team. For the team as a whole, I think this year should help reinforce the idea of just how tough it is to go all the way.

But, at the same time, it would be nice to have a new source of motivation. I don't think you can really underestimate the importance of a Dallas Drake type of player. In '08, it seemed like the whole team rallied around him in that run.

Essentially, overhaul...no. But, tweaks...yes.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

williams is a locker room cancer

[nate94gt 134]

IMO, to say they aren't hungry is a slap in the face. Why do they play? To win.

I play a lot of golf. I don't golf just to play, I golf to win. Just because I've won 8 tournaments in a row, doesn't mean I don't care and wont try in the next tournament. As an athlete, we (competitive people) are driven to win and compete, not loaf around just to earn a paycheck.

Edited May 9, 2010 by nate94gt

[titanium2 867]

IMO, to say they aren't hungry is a slap in the face. Why do they play? To win.

I play a lot of golf. I don't golf just to play, I golf to win. Just because I've won 8 tournaments in a row, doesn't mean I don't care and wont try in the next tournament. As an athlete, we (competitive people) are driven to win and compete, not loaf around just to earn a paycheck.

[13dangledangle 968]

I'm glad the Wings have a ton of experience that they can use to stay calm and collected in pressure situations. They believe in themselves and that's a really good characteristic in sports.

On the other side of that coin I thought we saw some behavior from the Wings that implied perhaps a pitfall from such an abundance of experience.

I stole these quotes from a thread on HF but they do make a concerning point.

Doesn't it worry anybody else that the Wings locker room has that kind of attitude, culture, demeanor, overconfidence or whatever you want to call it? Cleary and Bertuzzi make it sound as if the tendency within the team is to set themselves up for failure.

This is true, and Babcock has referenced this many of times in the past. They simply just play lazy. I dont ave time to link all the videos of his post game interview's right now but that would be awesome because as we know, Mike doesnt always suger coat things . Theres a tone from this season lol

Edited May 10, 2010 by 13dangledangle

[titanium2 867]

This is true, and Babcock has referenced this many of times in the past. They simply just play lazy. I dont ave time to link all the videos of his post game interview's right now but that would be awesome because as we know, Mike doesnt always suger coat things . Theres a tone from this season lol

It certainly looks that way at times but I don't think lazy is the best word for it.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'm glad the Wings have a ton of experience that they can use to stay calm and collected in pressure situations. They believe in themselves and that's a really good characteristic in sports.

On the other side of that coin I thought we saw some behavior from the Wings that implied perhaps a pitfall from such an abundance of experience.

I stole these quotes from a thread on HF but they do make a concerning point.

Doesn't it worry anybody else that the Wings locker room has that kind of attitude, culture, demeanor, overconfidence or whatever you want to call it? Cleary and Bertuzzi make it sound as if the tendency within the team is to set themselves up for failure.

This may compeltely just whiff on what you are trying to point out, but I think pretty much most fans want players that are loud, recognizable, whatever. Basically not boring/predictable. For better/worse, that's what a lot of the Wings are I think with interviews or attitude in terms of just keeping things level-headed usually. Nothing really to worry about I think and unless somebody really goes off in an interview (i.e. "Are you an expert?" as a recent example), I usually don't take too much of what these guys say with a grain of salt.

[titanium2 867]

This may compeltely just whiff on what you are trying to point out, but I think pretty much most fans want players that are loud, recognizable, whatever. Basically not boring/predictable. For better/worse, that's what a lot of the Wings are I think with interviews or attitude in terms of just keeping things level-headed usually. Nothing really to worry about I think and unless somebody really goes off in an interview (i.e. "Are you an expert?" as a recent example), I usually don't take too much of what these guys say with a grain of salt.

"Are you an expert?" ????

And what you said can be a part of what I was getting at. Just to re-emphasize my concern, it's as if they don't think the game or their opponents are much of a challenge unless they're down three games in a series or on the brink of elimination.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

"Are you an expert?" ????

And what you said can be a part of what I was getting at. Just to re-emphasize my concern, it's as if they don't think the game or their opponents are much of a challenge unless they're down three games in a series or on the brink of elimination.

It'd be nice if they show a little more emotion or desperation outwardly, but a lot of them have been through so much in terms of experience that we won't see them lose their cool too much or get too emotionally high or low. I think it's safe to assume they know when to turn up the urgency, even if they don't show it much.

Unless it's just something completely off the wall, I don't really read too much into what players say, especially if it is of the boring or quiet variety like we see with the Wings sometimes.

Edited May 11, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[titanium2 867]

It'd be nice if they show a little more emotion or desperation outwardly, but a lot of them have been through so much in terms of experience that we won't see them lose their cool too much or get too emotionally high or low. I think it's safe to assume they know when to turn up the urgency, even if they don't show it much.

Unless it's just something completely off the wall, I don't really read too much into what players say, especially if it is of the boring or quiet variety like we see with the Wings sometimes.

At the end of the day I believe that they gave everything they had especially when you consider how deep in the playoff they were the past few years and how they weren't able to train properly and whatnot. I just wonder if the win in 2008 has mentally and emotionally pushed them to the point where they won't have the urgency to win another.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

At the end of the day I believe that they gave everything they had especially when you consider how deep in the playoff they were the past few years and how they weren't able to train properly and whatnot. I just wonder if the win in 2008 has mentally and emotionally pushed them to the point where they won't have the urgency to win another.

It wouldn't be shocking if it was a factor. Not trying to make excuses, but it's something that in all likelihood is part of the equation obviously.

And for better/worse, a lot of these guys have to be politically correct in all likelihood so they don't get "fined". If they didn't, you'd hear a lot more bitching and anger. *cough* referees are terrible *cough*