107 replies to this topic

[LeftWinger]

Guys you suggested to get rid of:

 

Franzen 6'3 225 - Plays like he is 5'10" 179lbs. Lazy, but in a package can bring us a nice return...

Bertuzzi 6'3 230 - A shadow of his former self, plus too old and plays a lot smaller than he is...    

Samuelsson 6'2 220 - Again, plays a lot smaller than he is, plus over the hill and shows it...

Kindl 6'3 216 - Hot garbage, has been given ample opportunity to crack the top 6 D, never has and never will...

Quincey 6'2 210 - Has proven to be a bust last year and so far this year.  Doesn't play to his size either...too many mistakes

Cleary 6'0 210 - Uh....ya, if you have watched him the last couple years, no need to explain. Let him walk UFA.

Filppula 6'0 195 - The best tradeable asset we have, will bring us what we need in return. The only one I would miss...

Emmerton 6'0 195 - Career 13th forward. With the Wings kids about ready to come up, he will never crack the top 12...

 

While 5'10 193 - UFA this season, hasn't really worked out, he would not be missed. Dekeyser is ready, sign him...

Mursak 5'11 190 - China Doll, he is a RFA this year, He won't ever crack the top 12, career AHL'er in this organization...

Miller 6'2 178 - Again UFA this season, some hard cuts will need to be made if you ever want to see the kids. He is a good 13th forward, but Eaves is signed for another season....

 

Ok so you've taken nearly every Detroit forward over 6' off the team. Probably not a step in the right direction if you ask me.

 

1 proven sizable forward remaining: Abdelkader. That's Scary.

 

Oh but you exchanged Ryan, Perry and Burrows in a "lets trade our scraps, UFAs and whipping boys for your elite franchise/heart and soul players" type trades. lol

 

First of all, Perry would be signed as a UFA....Ryan would be acquired with Filppula as the main cog and Burrows would be acquired with Franzie as the main cog, and since you hold him so high on your list those are hardly trading scraps... I took liberty to edit your original post.... Ryan is something we need, Perry is better than Franzen, Burrows is better than Franzen...so lets see what I have suggested....

 

Alex Burrows - 6'1" 188lbs.

Bobby Ryan - 6'1" 207lbs.

Corey Perry - 6'3" 210lbs.

Riley Sheahan - 6'2" 212lbs.

Calle Jarnkrok - 5'11" 174lbs.

Douglas Murray - 6'3" 245lbs.

Dan Dekeyser - 6'3" 198lbs.

Brian Lashoff - 6'3" 212lbs.

Kent Huskins - 6'4" 210lbs.

 

So where exactly am I giving up size? Dude, its time to change this team...of course I don't expect Holland to trade Franzie or Filppula because he has a boner over them, but if Holland were to shop them, that is what I'd like to see....as long as Vancouver and Anaheim would cooperate too. But it's not like I am offering scraps for Ryan and Burrows....Franzen & Quincey (maybe prospect or pick) for Burrows and Filppula & Emmerton (maybe prospect or pick) for Ryan.... Perry, Murray, Huskins and Dekeyser will all be UFA (re)signings and Lashoff is an RFA...

 

Its not like I am saying trade Miller/Emmerton/Kindl/Mursak for Ryan or Burrows, I realize too I am giving up important players on this team, but in my opinion the roster I created can win a Stanley Cup...our current roster will not...ever.

 

edit: I know Cola is signed for another year, but if he isnt on LTIR then send him to GR and let him get pick off waivers.  Plus I am not even saying that Burrows or Ryan are being shopped, but those would be the type of players you would expect in return for a Franzie and Filppula, especially with the Sedins liking Franzie and Selanne liking Filppula.  Both of which would flourish in Van and Ana respectively...Hell if Sammy scored 30+ goals playing with the Sedins, Franzie may get 40-50...he will never get that here, ever. Filppula is a center, he is being wasted on the wing, but he is better than a 3rd line center.  He would tear up Anaheim with Selanne on his wing and we need scoring wingers, not converted playmaking centers here, so Ryan and Burrows would fit that need...as would Perry in the off-season...no need to explain what need Dekeyser and Murray would fill...

Edited by LeftWinger, 05 February 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[kipwinger]

I don't see Jarnkrok cracking this lineup for at least a year.  We're fairly strong down the middle as is, and he's not projecting to be the next Zetterberg or Datsyuk.  Filppula is probably a fair comparison and he spent a year in GR.  Jarnkrok will likely do the same. 

[Buppy]

This year about everyone in the Minors is better than Cleary, and Quincey. Why are we wasting roster spots for players like them, when you have kids that can play equal and provide energy while gaining experience at the same time. The problem is Detroit is going to have to start calling up the kids because this team isn't deep anymore, now they have reasons to call them up but they are still not doing it. I know they just called up Tatar but I believe it won't be long until he is sent back down even if he plays better than Cleary.

 

Who in the minors is better than Quincey? As for Cleary, you only assume Tatar or Nyquist would be any better. You can only assume they will be successful at all, especially if they're put in Cleary's role.

 

If Tatar comes in and makes a real impact, I think we'll find a way to keep him up. If not, it's better to leave him in GR, at least until the trade deadline. You don't dump assets to make lateral moves.

[LeftWinger]

Who in the minors is better than Quincey? As for Cleary, you only assume Tatar or Nyquist would be any better. You can only assume they will be successful at all, especially if they're put in Cleary's role.

 

If Tatar comes in and makes a real impact, I think we'll find a way to keep him up. If not, it's better to leave him in GR, at least until the trade deadline. You don't dump assets to make lateral moves.

Lashoff is better than Quincey, but he is here now, so that is moot.  I think Sproul and or Ouellet can be better than Q if given the opportunity...Q is hot garbage, it wouldn't take much to be a better.

 

I still think that Tatar and Nyquist will be trade bait come deadline, but agree with you on the Cleary point.  You cannot trade Cleary, so he only get's bumped if someone comes up and plays out of his mind.  I hope Tatar can do that, but he is a different type of player.  Hopefully he come up and gets on fire, it would help us and/or increase his trade value.  I would love for anyone to come in and bump Franzie's dumb ass out of the lineup...

[Euro_Twins]

Who in the minors is better than Quincey? As for Cleary, you only assume Tatar or Nyquist would be any better. You can only assume they will be successful at all, especially if they're put in Cleary's role.

 

If Tatar comes in and makes a real impact, I think we'll find a way to keep him up. If not, it's better to leave him in GR, at least until the trade deadline. You don't dump assets to make lateral moves.

 

let me ask you, is it possible for any of our minors to do worse than cleary at this point?

[kipwinger]

let me ask you, is it possible for any of our minors to do worse than cleary at this point?

 

I don't think that this is a comparison worth making right now, it's extremely unlikely that Cleary will be bumped for a kid.  The question to ask is whether or not Eaves or Miller is playing well enough to play Cleary out of a spot.  Personally, I'd say they both are.  That's sort of how the depth chart works.  Once Cleary's been worked out of his third line spot then the discussion could turn to whether or not a kid could play better on the fourth line than Cleary, but for now it's not a conversation worth having. 

[Euro_Twins]

I don't think that this is a comparison worth making right now, it's extremely unlikely that Cleary will be bumped for a kid.  The question to ask is whether or not Eaves or Miller is playing well enough to play Cleary out of a spot.  Personally, I'd say they both are.  That's sort of how the depth chart works.  Once Cleary's been worked out of his third line spot then the discussion could turn to whether or not a kid could play better on the fourth line than Cleary, but for now it's not a conversation worth having. 

 

Yes I understand how the depth chart works. I personally don't think there is a single forward on our current roster that is playing worse than cleary, he is an absolute mess, and is not making any improvements. I don't care what they have to do to get rid of him, I just want them to do it

[kipwinger]

Agreed, but the answer is not to call up some unproven kid.  The answer is to scratch Cleary instead of Eaves or Miller and let those guys step up.  It's not a big leap to expect those guys to elevate their games, they've done it before.  It's a huge stretch to expect a kid to come in from the AHL, play on the PK, play on the PP, work hard, finish checks, add a little offense, and play third line minutes...and to be better than Cleary while doing it.  That's what Cleary's current duties are...Eaves or Miller could reasonably be expected to do that...nobody on GR's roster could. 

[Buppy]

Lashoff is better than Quincey, but he is here now, so that is moot.  I think Sproul and or Ouellet can be better than Q if given the opportunity...Q is hot garbage, it wouldn't take much to be a better.

 

I still think that Tatar and Nyquist will be trade bait come deadline, but agree with you on the Cleary point.  You cannot trade Cleary, so he only get's bumped if someone comes up and plays out of his mind.  I hope Tatar can do that, but he is a different type of player.  Hopefully he come up and gets on fire, it would help us and/or increase his trade value.  I would love for anyone to come in and bump Franzie's dumb ass out of the lineup...

 

Lashoff being better than Quincey is debatable. He did alright in his few games. As for Sproul and Ouellet... Remember not too long ago when Kindl was putting up a point per game in juniors? Everyone was all excited for this big Swedish offensive dynamo. Supposedly played with "an edge" too. A lot of people wanted him to replace Fischer. Yeah...

 

let me ask you, is it possible for any of our minors to do worse than cleary at this point?

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, it is.

[LeftWinger]

Lashoff being better than Quincey is debatable. He did alright in his few games. As for Sproul and Ouellet... Remember not too long ago when Kindl was putting up a point per game in juniors? Everyone was all excited for this big Swedish offensive dynamo. Supposedly played with "an edge" too. A lot of people wanted him to replace Fischer. Yeah...

 

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, it is.

 

Well, I for one was never excited for Kindl (who is Czech BTW) to come up here.  He seemed to have a bit of a snarl in Kitchner, yet lost it in GR and wouldn't even think to drop the gloves in the NHL.  I never liked him from the get-go, but maybe he is a product of Ken Holland keeping the younsters in the minors too long.  Maybe if he was given a chance, lets say around 2006-07, maybe thinkgs would have been different.  That is why I say, get these kids going now before they expire in the minors. There is no better time that right now....we all agree Q is garbage, sit him, waive him, trade him, cut him, whatever, give the kids a shot just like Lashoff got and he is proving that the kids are ready...for the money, Lashoff is way better than Q.

[Z Winged Dangler]

 

 
First of all, Perry would be signed as a UFA....Ryan would be acquired with Filppula as the main cog and Burrows would be acquired with Franzie as the main cog, and since you hold him so high on your list those are hardly trading scraps... I took liberty to edit your original post.... Ryan is something we need, Perry is better than Franzen, Burrows is better than Franzen...so lets see what I have suggested....
 
Alex Burrows - 6'1" 188lbs.
Bobby Ryan - 6'1" 207lbs.
Corey Perry - 6'3" 210lbs.
Riley Sheahan - 6'2" 212lbs.
Calle Jarnkrok - 5'11" 174lbs.
Douglas Murray - 6'3" 245lbs.
Dan Dekeyser - 6'3" 198lbs.
Brian Lashoff - 6'3" 212lbs.
Kent Huskins - 6'4" 210lbs.
 
So where exactly am I giving up size? Dude, its time to change this team...of course I don't expect Holland to trade Franzie or Filppula because he has a boner over them, but if Holland were to shop them, that is what I'd like to see....as long as Vancouver and Anaheim would cooperate too. But it's not like I am offering scraps for Ryan and Burrows....Franzen & Quincey (maybe prospect or pick) for Burrows and Filppula & Emmerton (maybe prospect or pick) for Ryan.... Perry, Murray, Huskins and Dekeyser will all be UFA (re)signings and Lashoff is an RFA...
 
Its not like I am saying trade Miller/Emmerton/Kindl/Mursak for Ryan or Burrows, I realize too I am giving up important players on this team, but in my opinion the roster I created can win a Stanley Cup...our current roster will not...ever.
 
edit: I know Cola is signed for another year, but if he isnt on LTIR then send him to GR and let him get pick off waivers.  Plus I am not even saying that Burrows or Ryan are being shopped, but those would be the type of players you would expect in return for a Franzie and Filppula, especially with the Sedins liking Franzie and Selanne liking Filppula.  Both of which would flourish in Van and Ana respectively...Hell if Sammy scored 30+ goals playing with the Sedins, Franzie may get 40-50...he will never get that here, ever. Filppula is a center, he is being wasted on the wing, but he is better than a 3rd line center.  He would tear up Anaheim with Selanne on his wing and we need scoring wingers, not converted playmaking centers here, so Ryan and Burrows would fit that need...as would Perry in the off-season...no need to explain what need Dekeyser and Murray would fill...

I like the bold moves, but I personally have no interest in trading Filppula. He's been one of our hardest workers and best 2-way forwards. Franzen can go, but not Flip. And what's with the Burrows love? He's a big diver and a D bag. As far as Jarnkrok goes, I hope to see him on the Wings full time next year. Time to take out the trash as you stated. But in place of Burrows on the roster, keep Flip and bring up Andersson for size and forcheck.

[dirtydangles]

http://www.redwingsc...ready-for-duty/

[Richdg]

First of all, Perry would be signed as a UFA....Ryan would be acquired with Filppula as the main cog and Burrows would be acquired with Franzie as the main cog, and since you hold him so high on your list those are hardly trading scraps... I took liberty to edit your original post.... Ryan is something we need, Perry is better than Franzen, Burrows is better than Franzen...so lets see what I have suggested....

 

Alex Burrows - 6'1" 188lbs.

Bobby Ryan - 6'1" 207lbs.

Corey Perry - 6'3" 210lbs.

Riley Sheahan - 6'2" 212lbs.

Calle Jarnkrok - 5'11" 174lbs.

Douglas Murray - 6'3" 245lbs.

Dan Dekeyser - 6'3" 198lbs.

Brian Lashoff - 6'3" 212lbs.

Kent Huskins - 6'4" 210lbs.

 

So where exactly am I giving up size? Dude, its time to change this team...of course I don't expect Holland to trade Franzie or Filppula because he has a boner over them, but if Holland were to shop them, that is what I'd like to see....as long as Vancouver and Anaheim would cooperate too. But it's not like I am offering scraps for Ryan and Burrows....Franzen & Quincey (maybe prospect or pick) for Burrows and Filppula & Emmerton (maybe prospect or pick) for Ryan.... Perry, Murray, Huskins and Dekeyser will all be UFA (re)signings and Lashoff is an RFA...

 

Its not like I am saying trade Miller/Emmerton/Kindl/Mursak for Ryan or Burrows, I realize too I am giving up important players on this team, but in my opinion the roster I created can win a Stanley Cup...our current roster will not...ever.

 

edit: I know Cola is signed for another year, but if he isnt on LTIR then send him to GR and let him get pick off waivers.  Plus I am not even saying that Burrows or Ryan are being shopped, but those would be the type of players you would expect in return for a Franzie and Filppula, especially with the Sedins liking Franzie and Selanne liking Filppula.  Both of which would flourish in Van and Ana respectively...Hell if Sammy scored 30+ goals playing with the Sedins, Franzie may get 40-50...he will never get that here, ever. Filppula is a center, he is being wasted on the wing, but he is better than a 3rd line center.  He would tear up Anaheim with Selanne on his wing and we need scoring wingers, not converted playmaking centers here, so Ryan and Burrows would fit that need...as would Perry in the off-season...no need to explain what need Dekeyser and Murray would fill...

First, you and I agree on rebuilding/retooling the RW's. It has to happen and should have started 2-3 years ago. But you also have to realistic.

1. Filppula is a UFA this year. he is not a corner piece ina trade for Ryan. There is no way the Ducks are going to trade away Ryan-3 more year on his contract for a UFA. Period.

2. If we resign Filppula-5 to 6 million, Howard 5-6 million and brunner 3+ million, we don't have the money left o sign a big name FA.

3. If we cut/buyout some guys-which I am for, it doesn't mean any UFA's will sign with us. See Sutar and parise last year. It has been 5 or 6 years since we landed a top FA-Hossa.

4. I like dekeyser and think he will sign with us. But he is not ready for the NHL. Not even close. Even Schultz-a much better player is in the minors, and he is with a worse team (maybe) than us.

5. As for trades, we don't have much to trade. Most of our prospects are to far away from the NHL to have real trade value. Most of the guys here and GR are not real prospects-4th line guys at best, really career AHLers.

[The Axe]

A great third scoring line in Tatar-Jarnkrok-Nyquist ? Ha ha ha ha. Maybe if the Wings play in the ECHL next year.

[cr00d]

First, you and I agree on rebuilding/retooling the RW's. It has to happen and should have started 2-3 years ago. But you also have to realistic.

1. Filppula is a UFA this year. he is not a corner piece ina trade for Ryan. There is no way the Ducks are going to trade away Ryan-3 more year on his contract for a UFA. Period.

2. If we resign Filppula-5 to 6 million, Howard 5-6 million and brunner 3+ million, we don't have the money left o sign a big name FA.

3. If we cut/buyout some guys-which I am for, it doesn't mean any UFA's will sign with us. See Sutar and parise last year. It has been 5 or 6 years since we landed a top FA-Hossa.

4. I like dekeyser and think he will sign with us. But he is not ready for the NHL. Not even close. Even Schultz-a much better player is in the minors, and he is with a worse team (maybe) than us.

5. As for trades, we don't have much to trade. Most of our prospects are to far away from the NHL to have real trade value. Most of the guys here and GR are not real prospects-4th line guys at best, really career AHLers.

 

The more i read your posts, the more I believe you have no clue what you're talking about. Schultz in the minors? You're talking about Justin Schultz right? The guy who scored a goal and played well over 20 minutes for the Oilers last night?

 

...

 

Regarding Jarnkrok, I bet he has the skill and ability to play for the Wings as soon as next year, but he is waiver exempt till (i believe) the 2015-2016 season. Couple that with the fact that KH will have to clear roster space for Nyquist, Tatar, and Anderson next year, and Sheahan and Ferraro the next (or risk losing them all on waivers), there's just no way he makes the Red Wings next year. IMO anyways.

[dat's sick]

A great third scoring line in Tatar-Jarnkrok-Nyquist ? Ha ha ha ha. Maybe if the Wings play in the ECHL next year.

Tatar and Nyquist look pretty much NHL ready, and while Järnkrok is really a top 6 or nothing guy I don't see what's crazy about that line except it probably being quite small and soft.

Samuelsso -Filppula-Hudler was a glorious 3rd line for us. Certainly the 3rd we've been rolling with this season is as bad as it gets.

[cr00d]

Tatar and Nyquist look pretty much NHL ready, and while Järnkrok is really a top 6 or nothing guy I don't see what's crazy about that line except it probably being quite small and soft.

Samuelsso -Filppula-Hudler was a glorious 3rd line for us. Certainly the 3rd we've been rolling with this season is as bad as it gets.

 

Some folks on these forums, who are oblivious to the fact that the Wings sytem is incredibly talent rich, see three relatively unknown names and automatically assume they can't compete in today's NHL. People should not let the manner in which the Wings handle their prospects cloud their vision regarding how talented they truly are. Fact is, Players like Nyquist, Tatar, Anderson, Sheahan and even Ferraro would likely be playing on other NHL clubs right now.

 

A third line of Tatar - Jarnkrok - Nyquist would be intriguing if not for their lack of size/NHL experience. Though I bet they'd outskill most third lines in the NHL today, especially ours.

[ogreslayer]

I think the answer to the question really could hinge on whether or not Fil is re-signed in the offseason. If not, the chances of Jarnkrok being pulled from Sweden & directly into the Wings line-up goes up significantly.

[evilzyme]

First, you and I agree on rebuilding/retooling the RW's. It has to happen and should have started 2-3 years ago. But you also have to realistic.

1. Filppula is a UFA this year. he is not a corner piece ina trade for Ryan. There is no way the Ducks are going to trade away Ryan-3 more year on his contract for a UFA. Period.

2. If we resign Filppula-5 to 6 million, Howard 5-6 million and brunner 3+ million, we don't have the money left o sign a big name FA.

3. If we cut/buyout some guys-which I am for, it doesn't mean any UFA's will sign with us. See Sutar and parise last year. It has been 5 or 6 years since we landed a top FA-Hossa.

4. I like dekeyser and think he will sign with us. But he is not ready for the NHL. Not even close. Even Schultz-a much better player is in the minors, and he is with a worse team (maybe) than us.

5. As for trades, we don't have much to trade. Most of our prospects are to far away from the NHL to have real trade value. Most of the guys here and GR are not real prospects-4th line guys at best, really career AHLers.

 

We talking about the same Justin Schultz? The one that during the lockout lead the AHL in scoring? The one that is playing 20+ minutes a minute for the Oilers and doing a damn good job at it? The one that has played 10 NHL games and has 6 points? That Justin Schultz?

[dat's sick]

I think the answer to the question really could hinge on whether or not Fil is re-signed in the offseason. If not, the chances of Jarnkrok being pulled from Sweden & directly into the Wings line-up goes up significantly.

I'd really like to see him come over next year. Not sure his development can go much further if he stays in sweden. Adapting to the smaller ice and north american hockey as soon as possible is a must, even if it would mean he'd have to play on the 3rd line or even a bit in the AHL.

And learning from both Z and D would also do wonders for him.