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Where Do You Rank Our Defense?


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#21 joesuffP

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:28 PM

Nobody really noticed how bad Stuart really was the last 2 years... The way Ericsson performed after injury is an improvement to Stuart

#22 Dabura

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:33 PM

edit

Edited by Dabura, 20 September 2012 - 03:37 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#23 Dabura

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:42 PM

Kronwall - Girardi
Ericsson - White
Smith - Colaiacovo
Ellerby

hurray

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#24 Euro_Twins

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:05 PM

20-25

We don't have a single D-man with more than 7 years of NHL experience, and that's a big factor. Kronwall is a number 2 that has to cover the #1 spot for now, a number 4 in White, number 5s in Ericsson, Smith and Quincey, an AHLer in Kindl. We're essentially replacing Lidstrom with rookie Smith, Rafalski with White, Stuart with Quincey. Unless we move Samuelsson to the D (scary I know), the blueline offense isn't good enough to negate the bad defense.


Kronner and White both have more then 7 years experience, the average age of our defence may be 27 but I think they are highly underrated. Smith (if he is as good as we think) will be great, Colaiacovo is a very solid d-man as long as he stays healthy. Ericsson has progressively gotten better year by year, and made no where near as many mistakes last year (in fact stuart made more mistakes). Quincey may flourish this year in our system, and kindl will probably still be crap. but all in all I would rate our defence in the top 10-15

#25 Euro_Twins

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:19 PM

I'm gonna go against the grain on this one and say we're around #5 in the league. There's only 2 teams I rank in the top and that's the Bruins and Rangers. The Wings I would lump in with the Hawks, Kings, Shatbirds, Blues, Cansucks, Sharts and Jets to more or less round out the top 10 ish. Look at the top 6 on every other team in the NHL and you'll notice weaknesses on every club. Losing Lids and Stuart sucks, but still having Kronwall, White and now Coliacovo, you know what to expect from those guys. Ericsson is turning into the shutdown guy he was supposed to be, Smith may win the Calder if he gets top 4 minutes and Quincey may have a nice revival this year getting him back to his top 4 form. Kindl is the black sheep. Not sure what to make of him. But if our D looks like so, i'm not horribly worried:

Kronwall - White
Smith - Quincey
Ericsson - Coliacovo
Kindl

Personally, i'd swap White and Ericsson, but that's just me.


Who are the shatbirds? I don't know of such a team in the nhl. In fact it would be so much easier and more mature if you used actual names, likes sharks, not sharts. o_0

Nobody really noticed how bad Stuart really was the last 2 years... The way Ericsson performed after injury is an improvement to Stuart


Thank you, finally someone else has said it. I said it all year last year that he was playing like s***, no one believes me.

#26 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:12 AM

Who are the shatbirds? I don't know of such a team in the nhl. In fact it would be so much easier and more mature if you used actual names, likes sharks, not sharts. o_0



Thank you, finally someone else has said it. I said it all year last year that he was playing like s***, no one believes me.

That would be the Penguins obviously. And you didn't notice Cansucks? I have a deep hatred for those 3 teams, so I use slang to describe them. 99% of my posts here are well thought out and mature, it appears you've tapped into that 1%. Either way, those are the teams that the Wings D would be lumped in with as equals and the main point is that only the Rangers and Bruins have overall better D in my opinion. And the slang for teams can't be the only thing you took from my post...it was fairly descriptive despite your criticism.

As for part 2 of your post. I agree 100%. Stuart had his bags packed all year. He was ok, but he wasn't great shutdown Stuart and clearly, that's what we needed him to be last year. He looked lost for most of the year. He still hit and blocked shots, but his positioning/hockey sense was subpar.

One other thing...I like the Coliacovo signing as he is a very solid dman, but I still think that Kenny should have given Cam Barker a closer look. Probably could have got him cheap and he's got even more upside than Carlo.

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#27 The Axe

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:30 AM

Yandle would make us better.

#28 ogreslayer

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

Well sadly this guy is now off the market & can't help the Wings :hehe:

HOGS SIGN LEBDA TO ROUND OUT CAMP ROSTER


Edited by ogreslayer, 21 September 2012 - 10:49 AM.


#29 Euro_Twins

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 10:54 AM

That would be the Penguins obviously. And you didn't notice Cansucks? I have a deep hatred for those 3 teams, so I use slang to describe them. 99% of my posts here are well thought out and mature, it appears you've tapped into that 1%. Either way, those are the teams that the Wings D would be lumped in with as equals and the main point is that only the Rangers and Bruins have overall better D in my opinion. And the slang for teams can't be the only thing you took from my post...it was fairly descriptive despite your criticism.

As for part 2 of your post. I agree 100%. Stuart had his bags packed all year. He was ok, but he wasn't great shutdown Stuart and clearly, that's what we needed him to be last year. He looked lost for most of the year. He still hit and blocked shots, but his positioning/hockey sense was subpar.

One other thing...I like the Coliacovo signing as he is a very solid dman, but I still think that Kenny should have given Cam Barker a closer look. Probably could have got him cheap and he's got even more upside than Carlo.


No you're right that was not the only thing I took from your post. I do agree pretty well %100 with about about where our defence ranks, the only thing I didn't understand was shatbirgs lol. I agree not many teams have a "great" defense, they just have a couple key guys thats it.

#30 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:20 AM

No you're right that was not the only thing I took from your post. I do agree pretty well %100 with about about where our defence ranks, the only thing I didn't understand was shatbirgs lol. I agree not many teams have a "great" defense, they just have a couple key guys thats it.

I normall refer to them as the Sh*tbirds, but with the language filter I had to mix things up a bit :innocent: .
I wish more people were onboard with being positive about the Wings team and defence. Our depth on D is better in my eyes than as you said "the couple key guys". The mindset that most people have though is that Lids and Stuart are gone and despite how good Smith is will never measure up to Lids and Kronwall apparently isn't a #1 dman.

Kronner is just as good as the legend himself Ryan Suter, Ericsson has become just as good as Stuart, Smith may win the Calder if a season starts and could push Kronwall for the point leader among dmen on the Wings, White and Coliacovo are solid and Quincey should get back to form and get 35-40 points. I don't get how a solid 6 doesn't please people even after the departure of Lids and Stuart. No one wants to trade with the Wings cause they don't want to be the team that adds the piece to the puzzle. Another thing, which is why Holland didn't want to give out more than 2 years to Coliacovo is that we have some really good D prospects that should be ready in 2-4 years....Sproul, Oulette, McKee and so on, and if Dekeyser decides to sign here after this year then he'll be in the mix too so it's not like Kenny didn't plan at all for the departures that happened, but he couldn't control what other teams were willing to give him in trades and that family was more important not just for Stuart, but also Suter and Parise.

Lastly, most dmen that got signed this summer as UFA's were grossly overpaid by teams crying that they have no money. Kenny's legacy will be that he built contenders every year and was fiscally responsible when the cap was brought into the NHL. Anyone who disagrees can look back to the 2008 Cup win in the "salary cap era" and the cup that should have been the following season.

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#31 Euro_Twins

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:07 PM

I normall refer to them as the Sh*tbirds, but with the language filter I had to mix things up a bit :innocent: .
I wish more people were onboard with being positive about the Wings team and defence. Our depth on D is better in my eyes than as you said "the couple key guys". The mindset that most people have though is that Lids and Stuart are gone and despite how good Smith is will never measure up to Lids and Kronwall apparently isn't a #1 dman.

Kronner is just as good as the legend himself Ryan Suter, Ericsson has become just as good as Stuart, Smith may win the Calder if a season starts and could push Kronwall for the point leader among dmen on the Wings, White and Coliacovo are solid and Quincey should get back to form and get 35-40 points. I don't get how a solid 6 doesn't please people even after the departure of Lids and Stuart. No one wants to trade with the Wings cause they don't want to be the team that adds the piece to the puzzle. Another thing, which is why Holland didn't want to give out more than 2 years to Coliacovo is that we have some really good D prospects that should be ready in 2-4 years....Sproul, Oulette, McKee and so on, and if Dekeyser decides to sign here after this year then he'll be in the mix too so it's not like Kenny didn't plan at all for the departures that happened, but he couldn't control what other teams were willing to give him in trades and that family was more important not just for Stuart, but also Suter and Parise.

Lastly, most dmen that got signed this summer as UFA's were grossly overpaid by teams crying that they have no money. Kenny's legacy will be that he built contenders every year and was fiscally responsible when the cap was brought into the NHL. Anyone who disagrees can look back to the 2008 Cup win in the "salary cap era" and the cup that should have been the following season.


I absolutely agree with you, which is why he did not re-sign Hudler(thank God) the only reason people are worried is because we lost Lidstrom and couldn't get Suter, boo hoo he was overpaid and over hyped. He won't be nearly as good without Weber. On the subject of Kronner I think he will be a solid #1 although he is prone to making mistakes here and there, aside from Lidstrom which nhl top d-man never makes mistakes? Our d will be fine now, we stay healthy and we will be fighting for top spot in the west all year!

#32 Dabura

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:13 PM

it's not like Kenny didn't plan at all for the departures that happened


It kinda is, though.

(*in before WHAT ABOUT QUINCEY*)

Don't Toews me, bro!


#33 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:11 AM

It kinda is, though.

(*in before WHAT ABOUT QUINCEY*)

Holland got Quincey in a 3 way trade involving Yzerman. That's how he has to work now cause teams are always afraid of what the Wings can be again. Another thing as well, tell me 1 dman that was signed this offseason that was not overpaid. Even Yzerman overpaid for Matt Carle. Either way, Quincey may bounce back and Smith should fit well on the blue line if there's even a season. Time will tell. Personally, I think we're fine.

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

Dan Cleary is an Xbox 360.  While good for a while, it's time for the new generation to take over.


#34 Dabura

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

I'm not sore over this summer. I mean, I am - but I can't really fault Holland for it. What I can, and do, fault Holland for is his complacency and inaction re: Nick's looming retirement. There was no transition plan; he did nothing to cushion the coming blow. And so, there he was - jumping through hoops for frickin' Ryan Suter. And here he is - essentially stuck with what we have, unless he wants to pay a king's ransom (which is, actually, necessary, as we do need an elite first-pairing piece). Maybe I dreamed this, but I seem to recall Babcock recently saying something along the lines of "I don't know how we're gonna get it done [with this roster, i.e. this blue line], but we'll find a way." Translation: "Kenny, you son of a *****."

This is the Detroit Red Wings. It's Cup-or-bust, 24-7-365. It's Holland's job (or at least a huge-ass, mega-central part of it) to put this team in the best position he possibly can. And, unfortunately, he's dropped the ball re: our blue line. Which wouldn't bother me if this were, like, the Leafs. Or any other organization, really. But, again, this is the Wings. And Ken Holland is the best GM in the league, no questions asked. And that's what gets me.

Everyone's breathing a collective sigh of relief because - praise Jesus on high! - we've locked up a Plan B C D E in Carlo Colaiacovo. ("I never doubted you, Mr. Holland!") And, hey, Quincey was horrible for us, but he'll be amazing for us. And Kronwall's not really a full-on #1, and White should only be a #2 if the #1 is Nick Lidstrom (and even then...) - but they'll be fine!

I feel like The Bar has been lowered. I could go on, but this is already ranty enough, I guess.

Edited by Dabura, 27 September 2012 - 02:20 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#35 The Axe

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:52 PM

Nobody-Kronwall
Nobody-White
Smith-Ericsson
Quincey-Colo

#36 Johnz96

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:46 AM

I think it'a a great D
I wouldn't be surprised if the don't allow a goal for a long time

#37 Euro_Twins

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

I'm not sore over this summer. I mean, I am - but I can't really fault Holland for it. What I can, and do, fault Holland for is his complacency and inaction re: Nick's looming retirement. There was no transition plan; he did nothing to cushion the coming blow. And so, there he was - jumping through hoops for frickin' Ryan Suter. And here he is - essentially stuck with what we have, unless he wants to pay a king's ransom (which is, actually, necessary, as we do need an elite first-pairing piece). Maybe I dreamed this, but I seem to recall Babcock recently saying something along the lines of "I don't know how we're gonna get it done [with this roster, i.e. this blue line], but we'll find a way." Translation: "Kenny, you son of a *****."

This is the Detroit Red Wings. It's Cup-or-bust, 24-7-365. It's Holland's job (or at least a huge-ass, mega-central part of it) to put this team in the best position he possibly can. And, unfortunately, he's dropped the ball re: our blue line. Which wouldn't bother me if this were, like, the Leafs. Or any other organization, really. But, again, this is the Wings. And Ken Holland is the best GM in the league, no questions asked. And that's what gets me.

Everyone's breathing a collective sigh of relief because - praise Jesus on high! - we've locked up a Plan B C D E in Carlo Colaiacovo. ("I never doubted you, Mr. Holland!") And, hey, Quincey was horrible for us, but he'll be amazing for us. And Kronwall's not really a full-on #1, and White should only be a #2 if the #1 is Nick Lidstrom (and even then...) - but they'll be fine!

I feel like The Bar has been lowered. I could go on, but this is already ranty enough, I guess.


I understand your frustration, but in all honesty our D isn't that bad. You fail to realize Stuart played like garbage the last year and a half. Ericsson is better then Stuart was playing when he finished the season. Kronwall and white will make a solid top pairing, Smith(assuming he plays as well as he did in the 14 games he played last season) will be great alongside Ericsson on the second pairing, and quincey, kindl, and colo will fight for nhl time, thus hopefully improving their play. You also have to remember if Colo can stay healthy is a solid d-man, and he does have experience playing on the first pairing alongside pietrangelo. Our defence as a whole is still better then %90 of the teams, if we got one good piece we would have the best defence in the league again, but being in the top %10 isn't bad at all.

You also have to remember we have an elite goalie in Howie behind the defence, who can stop onslaught's of pucks. Howard's performance seems to dip when he has nothing to do most of the game, so he probably will have even better stats then last year if in fact our D isn't all that great, and I have full faith that Howie can give our team a winning chance every game he is in net

Edited by Euro_Twins, 01 October 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#38 Dabura

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:24 PM

Our D is not where it needs to be. We need to add an elite piece, one of the better defensemen in the league. That's what you do when you lose a guy god like Nick Lidstrom.

Edited by Dabura, 04 October 2012 - 02:25 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#39 Euro_Twins

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

Our D is not where it needs to be. We need to add an elite piece, one of the better defensemen in the league. That's what you do when you lose a guy god like Nick Lidstrom.


*correction, thats what you do when you are capable of doing so. We made attempts to get Suter & Parise, and Bouwmeester and other D-men aswell. Calgary will not give us bou without making us heavily over pay for them, we already got white after they didn't want him, and they saw how that turned out. Now that they have control over it they and every other team are not going to want to be the ones who add the missing piece to detroit. Unfortunately, Suter, greene, carle among others did not want to go to detroit.Even Columbus wouldn't give us Nash for what Holland and Babcock described as a hell of a deal (I heard Flip, Franz, and Nyquist were offered) So if you were Holland what would you do?

Edited by Euro_Twins, 04 October 2012 - 09:23 PM.


#40 Dabura

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 09:19 PM

I should've said: That is what you do when you know you'll soon be losing a guy god like Nick Lidstrom to retirement. Holland didn't do it, and now he has to overpay. And he doesn't get points for trying. Sadly, though, I'm sensing his solution is to not try at all. Because, you know, parity and growing from within and we kicked the tires and impossible to replace Nick Lidstrom, so why try and priced out and we like our team.

Mmmmm. Mediocrity.

Don't Toews me, bro!






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