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Wings interested in Weiss


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#61 F.Michael

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:41 AM

 

I'm having a hard time determining whether I'm being added in here out of sarcasm, or if you actually think I'm in favor of "gooning it up" based on my previous posts around this forum.  If the latter, then I've obviously been very unclear for the last several years.  In short, I've never EVER been in favor of gooning it up.  Although I did once make a fantasy roster of goons just to screw with Blueadams, but that was tongue in cheek. 

Sorry - my mistake...My intention was to add those members here who feel we could use some grit/toughness.



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#62 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:46 AM

ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Newfy - ATTENTION

 

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Mobile'!

 

 

I've been advocating signing McGrattan since early in the year, he's no Emmerton but he pounds faces! :hehe:


#NOMOREKINDL


#63 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

Sorry - my mistake...My intention was to add those members here who feel we could use some grit/toughness.

 

Grit and toughness I can agree with, provided they can also take a regular shift and play some hockey.  But your post said something about "to the goon mobile", which suggests goons and not actual players.  As such, I have to disagree and repeat my previous objection.  All too often members of this forum merge the ideas of "grit" with the idea of "goons".  They aren't the same.  Draper, Maltby, and Helm all have grit, but none of them are/were goons.  I'll take grit, but keep the goons off the ice as far as I'm concerned. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#64 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:24 PM

You could have said the same thing comparing Quincey and Kindl before Quincey was traded here.

 

Right, and two years ago nobody in their right mind would rather have had Kindl than Quincey.  Just like nobody in their right mind would rather have Filppula than Weiss.  Now, if (in the future) Filppula comes out of his shell and Weiss falls off the face of the planet then I'd be happy to admit that the swap didn't work out for us.  But right now, based on their careers up to this point, Stephen Weiss is a noticeably better hockey player than Filppula, just like Quincey was a noticeably better player than Kindl when he was traded for.  


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#65 Johnz96

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:23 PM

 

Right, and two years ago nobody in their right mind would rather have had Kindl than Quincey.  Just like nobody in their right mind would rather have Filppula than Weiss.  Now, if (in the future) Filppula comes out of his shell and Weiss falls off the face of the planet then I'd be happy to admit that the swap didn't work out for us.  But right now, based on their careers up to this point, Stephen Weiss is a noticeably better hockey player than Filppula, just like Quincey was a noticeably better player than Kindl when he was traded for.  

Quincey didn't just fall off the face of the earth. He would produce similarly or even better than he did before he came to Detroit if he was afforded the opportunities he had before he came here.



#66 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:48 PM

Quincey didn't just fall off the face of the earth. He would produce similarly or even better than he did before he came to Detroit if he was afforded the opportunities he had before he came here.

 

I disagree, Quincey had every opportunity to lock down a spot on the PP point both at the end of last season and for much of this season.  Aside from Kronwall there were no "givens" on our PP points and had Quincey produced the spot would have been his.  He was certainly given the opportunity.  However, he was ultimately outplayed on both units and therefore the door closed on Quincey as a PP producer.  Same with Filppula, the guy has had every opportunity to show he can produce with more ice time (both even strength and on the PP), and he hasn't done it.  All of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen have missed significant periods of time the last several seasons and Filppula has always been the next in line.  If he had made good with those opportunities and produced, it's highly unlikely that he would have been placed back down on the 2nd PP just for sh*ts and giggles.  Fact is, he didn't and that's why he wasn't awarded more time than he was given. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#67 Johnz96

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:53 PM

 

I disagree, Quincey had every opportunity to lock down a spot on the PP point both at the end of last season and for much of this season.  Aside from Kronwall there were no "givens" on our PP points and had Quincey produced the spot would have been his.  He was certainly given the opportunity.  However, he was ultimately outplayed on both units and therefore the door closed on Quincey as a PP producer.  Same with Filppula, the guy has had every opportunity to show he can produce with more ice time (both even strength and on the PP), and he hasn't done it.  All of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen have missed significant periods of time the last several seasons and Filppula has always been the next in line.  If he had made good with those opportunities and produced, it's highly unlikely that he would have been placed back down on the 2nd PP just for sh*ts and giggles.  Fact is, he didn't and that's why he wasn't awarded more time than he was given. 

Becaude he was outplayed by better players than L.A or Colorado had he wasn't afforded the opportunity to play over 3 minutes a game on top PP units and 23 mins a game. He is not any less of  player than he was there just doesn't have the same role because we have better players than they did. If Weiss had been with the Wings instead of Florida he wouldn't have had nearly as much PP time or ice-time in general and wouldn't have produced as much as he did in Florida.


Edited by Johnz96, 19 June 2013 - 07:56 PM.


#68 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:05 PM

Becaude he was outplayed by better players than L.A or Colorado had he wasn't afforded the opportunity to play over 3 minutes a game on top PP units and 23 mins a game. He is not any less of  player than he was there just doesn't have the same role because we have better players than they did. If Weiss had been with the Wings instead of Florida he wouldn't have had nearly as much PP time or ice-time in general and wouldn't have produced as much as he did in Florida.

 

Again, given how bad our PP was last year and at the beginning of this year Weiss would have been afforded every opportunity, just as Filppula has been.  And considering his track record with substandard talent, there's every reason to believe that he would have produced MORE than he did in Florida and earned time on the top PP unit.  Just as Filppula  could have done.  You're making it seem like Filppula hasn't been given a chance to shine on the PP.  Either that or that he's been given the chance, played well, and then demoted for basically no reason at all.  And don't tell me the reason he didn't see more time was because he was outplayed by better players.  He had fewer PP points this season than Dan Cleary did, and only one more than Nyquist did (in far fewer games).  He flat out stunk on the PP as  Torts would say.  That's why he didn't get more time. 

 

 

Edit:  Here's something indicative, even if you take away all of Weiss' power play points, since the 2006-2007 season he still scored 208 pts.  During that same period Filppula scored 250 pts (pp included).  I picked the 06-07 season as my beginning point because since then both Weiss and Filppula have played exactly the same number of games.  So with ZERO pp time in that span, Weiss would have only scored 42 pts. less than Filppula did with all of his pp time, which over the course of those seven season equates to 6pts. per season.  So Flip with all his PP time, and Weiss with none of it, is good for six more points per season on average.


Edited by kipwinger, 19 June 2013 - 09:02 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#69 Johnz96

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:53 PM

 

Again, given how bad our PP was last year and at the beginning of this year Weiss would have been afforded every opportunity, just as Filppula has been.  And considering his track record with substandard talent, there's every reason to believe that he would have produced MORE than he did in Florida and earned time on the top PP unit.  Just as Filppula  could have done.  You're making it seem like Filppula hasn't been given a chance to shine on the PP.  Either that or that he's been given the chance, played well, and then demoted for basically no reason at all.  And don't tell me the reason he didn't see more time was because he was outplayed by better players.  He had fewer PP points this season than Dan Cleary did, and only one more than Nyquist did (in far fewer games).  He flat out stunk on the PP as  Torts would say.  That's why he didn't get more time. 

What I am saying is Filppula and Weiss would get more ice-time and PP time swith Florida and would produce more there than in Detroit. The reason Filppula hasn't got much ice-time  and PP time is that the Wings have similar players that are better than him and Weiss.



#70 kipwinger

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

What I am saying is Filppula and Weiss would get more ice-time and PP time swith Florida and would produce more there than in Detroit. The reason Filppula hasn't got much ice-time  and PP time is that the Wings have similar players that are better than him and Weiss.

 

I'm not really sure if I follow your logic.  It's sort of a platitude to suggest that all things being equal, somebody will score more with more ice time.  That's true of every player in the league.  But that's not the only thing that factors into production.  Even on the second PP unit, Filppula had better teammates surrounding him and played against lesser quality competition (if you consider the 2nd pk unit is worse than the first).  I'll grant you that Weiss would have a tougher time getting top PP minutes in Detroit, but there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't produce as much or more with better quality linemates and while the quality of competition stayed equal.  And he would have gotten that opportunity given how bad our PP has been, and how many PP regulars have missed significant time the last several years. 

 

 

Edit:  Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  In the 2011-2012 regular season Kovalchuk led all forward with 4:55 seconds of PP time per game.  Claude Giroux had a full minute less with 3:54 seconds of pp time per game.  However, Giroux had 9 more pp points over the course of the season.  Why?  Because Philadelphia had the best ranked power play in the league and New Jersey was tied for 14th. 

 

Every year Detroit has a better powerplay than Florida.  So even with the difference in pp time on ice, Filppula should score as much or more than Weiss if their talent level is as equal as you say.  Yet he doesn't.  Ever. 


Edited by kipwinger, 19 June 2013 - 09:59 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#71 AtomicPunk

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:53 PM

There's a name I haven't thought of in a while, mostly cause he got injured, Kris Versteeg. I think he was making 3 million and scored 54 points and played his ass off every night. Damn, what a value. We need some players like that. Not players who don't work hard and are asking for 5.5 mill.


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#72 Zetts

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:06 PM

There's a name I haven't thought of in a while, mostly cause he got injured, Kris Versteeg. I think he was making 3 million and scored 54 points and played his ass off every night. Damn, what a value. We need some players like that. Not players who don't work hard and are asking for 5.5 mill.

I believe that the main criticism of him was that he could be lazy at times.


Edited by Zetts, 24 June 2013 - 11:06 PM.


#73 AtomicPunk

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 11:23 PM

Like Filppula, Franzen, etc? Or not as much? Cause the games I watched him in, I didn't see that at all.


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#74 dropkickshanahans

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:13 AM

I know most of us have our reasons for not wanting Filppula back, but for being lazy? That's a first.



#75 DeGraa55

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:38 AM

I know most of us have our reasons for not wanting Filppula back, but for being lazy? That's a first.



Ya no kidding the dude worked hard just not a goal scorer.

#76 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:46 AM

Ya no kidding the dude worked hard just not a goal scorer.


No he's one of the hardest working guys on the team! I want fil back badly but not for over 5 mil. If fil walks I would consider maybe trading his rights along with Quincey and a mid pick or mid prospect to Florida for Weiss rights and kris versteeg

#77 amato

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:13 AM

No he's one of the hardest working guys on the team! I want fil back badly but not for over 5 mil. If fil walks I would consider maybe trading his rights along with Quincey and a mid pick or mid prospect to Florida for Weiss rights and kris versteeg


I'd love to see Matthias come over with Weiss. 6'4, 220.. 25 y.o. and put up 14 goals in 48 games. doods a hard worker. Don't really see it happening tho with how many forwards we have.

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#78 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:33 AM

I'd love to see Matthias come over with Weiss. 6'4, 220.. 25 y.o. and put up 14 goals in 48 games. doods a hard worker. Don't really see it happening tho with how many forwards we have.


What do you think it would take to get mathias and Weiss?

#79 amato

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:36 AM

What do you think it would take to get mathias and Weiss?

I'm not too sure but since Matthias is an RFA and Weiss a UFA, if they both dont want to sign there it might not be too difficult. Perhaps something like filps rights, emmerton and a 4th or 5th conditional pick for both their rights?

edit: maybe they'd send us a conditional pick back as well..?

Edited by amato, 25 June 2013 - 08:53 AM.

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#80 Nyquistfan14

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:04 AM

I'm not too sure but since Matthias is an RFA and Weiss a UFA, if they both dont want to sign there it might not be too difficult. Perhaps something like filps rights, emmerton and a 4th or 5th conditional pick for both their rights?

edit: maybe they'd send us a conditional pick back as well..?


If that was the case we would pull the trigger every time. But I think mathias will draw a lot more than that. Probably a good prospect and a mid round pick plus fils rights for Weiss and mathias





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