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Zetts

Wings interested in Weiss

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Not a surprise the Wings are interested.Weiss made Kris Versteeg look like an all star winger not so long ago and wouldn't mind to see him as a Fil's replacement.

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Filppula and Weiss are pretty much identical in my book, except Weiss has the track record and has proved he can hold down a top line, let alone a 2nd line. Flips hasn't really proved that yet, and hopefully he does cause I doubt holland would trade out Val for Weiss

I think Holland is much more likely to trade for the rights to Matthias than he is for Weiss

Matthias for Bertuzzi!

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So Weiss can put up those numbers as well as play a two-way game at center, and Flip only had one high scoring season as a winger. I think I'd consider Weiss an upgrade.

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It's easy to ignore the relative quality of each player's linemates, isn't it? The Panthers have been one of the worst teams in the league since the lockout. Up until two seasons ago, the ownership hardly spent any money; when it was necessary for them to do so in order to reach the salary floor---and thus have access to funds from revenue sharing---they responded by shelling out oversized contracts to players of dubious worth.

In other words, Weiss has played with mediocre linemates for his entire career. And he has done so against the top lines of the opposition.

They actually measure that stat at hockeyanalysis.com. Filppula's teammates are WAY better than Weiss' across the board. That's saying something when Filppula's second and third line teammates are better than Weiss' first line support.

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I responded to someone who said Weiss has consistently been more productive than Fil .Weiss has played with the best and most offensive platers on his team. Filppula often centered the 3rd line. More often than not when players move to a better team they score less.

Weiss has consistently produced more than Val. The fact that he has earned more PP time on his respective team, and made good use of that time by scoring a lot, shouldn't be held against him. There's a reason he gets more PP time and more even strength time than Val does...he's a better player. If Val scored as often as Weiss does on the PP then he'd see more minutes.

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People have to keep in mind, Wings need to drastically change their philosophy regarding size and toughness if they want to survive the east.

ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Newfy - ATTENTION

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Mobile'!

Edited by F.Michael

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ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Kip Winger - ATTENTION

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Moblie'!

I think a line of MacIntyre / Helm / McGrattan would fix a lot.

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ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Kip Winger - ATTENTION

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Moblie'!

I call shotgun :P
F.Michael likes this

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ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Kip Winger - ATTENTION

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Moblie'!

I'm having a hard time determining whether I'm being added in here out of sarcasm, or if you actually think I'm in favor of "gooning it up" based on my previous posts around this forum. If the latter, then I've obviously been very unclear for the last several years. In short, I've never EVER been in favor of gooning it up. Although I did once make a fantasy roster of goons just to screw with Blueadams, but that was tongue in cheek.

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Weiss has consistently produced more than Val. The fact that he has earned more PP time on his respective team, and made good use of that time by scoring a lot, shouldn't be held against him. There's a reason he gets more PP time and more even strength time than Val does...he's a better player. If Val scored as often as Weiss does on the PP then he'd see more minutes.

You could have said the same thing comparing Quincey and Kindl before Quincey was traded here.

Edited by Johnz96

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I'm having a hard time determining whether I'm being added in here out of sarcasm, or if you actually think I'm in favor of "gooning it up" based on my previous posts around this forum. If the latter, then I've obviously been very unclear for the last several years. In short, I've never EVER been in favor of gooning it up. Although I did once make a fantasy roster of goons just to screw with Blueadams, but that was tongue in cheek.

Sorry - my mistake...My intention was to add those members here who feel we could use some grit/toughness.

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ATTENTION - GMR1983 - Bring Back The Bruise Bros - RyanBarnes - Detroit #1 Fan - Newfy - ATTENTION

Kenny's in trouble, and needs our help...Looks as though we'll have our work cut out for us...To the 'Goon Mobile'!

I've been advocating signing McGrattan since early in the year, he's no Emmerton but he pounds faces! :hehe:

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Sorry - my mistake...My intention was to add those members here who feel we could use some grit/toughness.

Grit and toughness I can agree with, provided they can also take a regular shift and play some hockey. But your post said something about "to the goon mobile", which suggests goons and not actual players. As such, I have to disagree and repeat my previous objection. All too often members of this forum merge the ideas of "grit" with the idea of "goons". They aren't the same. Draper, Maltby, and Helm all have grit, but none of them are/were goons. I'll take grit, but keep the goons off the ice as far as I'm concerned.

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You could have said the same thing comparing Quincey and Kindl before Quincey was traded here.

Right, and two years ago nobody in their right mind would rather have had Kindl than Quincey. Just like nobody in their right mind would rather have Filppula than Weiss. Now, if (in the future) Filppula comes out of his shell and Weiss falls off the face of the planet then I'd be happy to admit that the swap didn't work out for us. But right now, based on their careers up to this point, Stephen Weiss is a noticeably better hockey player than Filppula, just like Quincey was a noticeably better player than Kindl when he was traded for.

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Right, and two years ago nobody in their right mind would rather have had Kindl than Quincey. Just like nobody in their right mind would rather have Filppula than Weiss. Now, if (in the future) Filppula comes out of his shell and Weiss falls off the face of the planet then I'd be happy to admit that the swap didn't work out for us. But right now, based on their careers up to this point, Stephen Weiss is a noticeably better hockey player than Filppula, just like Quincey was a noticeably better player than Kindl when he was traded for.

Quincey didn't just fall off the face of the earth. He would produce similarly or even better than he did before he came to Detroit if he was afforded the opportunities he had before he came here.

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Quincey didn't just fall off the face of the earth. He would produce similarly or even better than he did before he came to Detroit if he was afforded the opportunities he had before he came here.

I disagree, Quincey had every opportunity to lock down a spot on the PP point both at the end of last season and for much of this season. Aside from Kronwall there were no "givens" on our PP points and had Quincey produced the spot would have been his. He was certainly given the opportunity. However, he was ultimately outplayed on both units and therefore the door closed on Quincey as a PP producer. Same with Filppula, the guy has had every opportunity to show he can produce with more ice time (both even strength and on the PP), and he hasn't done it. All of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen have missed significant periods of time the last several seasons and Filppula has always been the next in line. If he had made good with those opportunities and produced, it's highly unlikely that he would have been placed back down on the 2nd PP just for sh*ts and giggles. Fact is, he didn't and that's why he wasn't awarded more time than he was given.

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I disagree, Quincey had every opportunity to lock down a spot on the PP point both at the end of last season and for much of this season. Aside from Kronwall there were no "givens" on our PP points and had Quincey produced the spot would have been his. He was certainly given the opportunity. However, he was ultimately outplayed on both units and therefore the door closed on Quincey as a PP producer. Same with Filppula, the guy has had every opportunity to show he can produce with more ice time (both even strength and on the PP), and he hasn't done it. All of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen have missed significant periods of time the last several seasons and Filppula has always been the next in line. If he had made good with those opportunities and produced, it's highly unlikely that he would have been placed back down on the 2nd PP just for sh*ts and giggles. Fact is, he didn't and that's why he wasn't awarded more time than he was given.

Becaude he was outplayed by better players than L.A or Colorado had he wasn't afforded the opportunity to play over 3 minutes a game on top PP units and 23 mins a game. He is not any less of player than he was there just doesn't have the same role because we have better players than they did. If Weiss had been with the Wings instead of Florida he wouldn't have had nearly as much PP time or ice-time in general and wouldn't have produced as much as he did in Florida.

Edited by Johnz96

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Becaude he was outplayed by better players than L.A or Colorado had he wasn't afforded the opportunity to play over 3 minutes a game on top PP units and 23 mins a game. He is not any less of player than he was there just doesn't have the same role because we have better players than they did. If Weiss had been with the Wings instead of Florida he wouldn't have had nearly as much PP time or ice-time in general and wouldn't have produced as much as he did in Florida.

Again, given how bad our PP was last year and at the beginning of this year Weiss would have been afforded every opportunity, just as Filppula has been. And considering his track record with substandard talent, there's every reason to believe that he would have produced MORE than he did in Florida and earned time on the top PP unit. Just as Filppula could have done. You're making it seem like Filppula hasn't been given a chance to shine on the PP. Either that or that he's been given the chance, played well, and then demoted for basically no reason at all. And don't tell me the reason he didn't see more time was because he was outplayed by better players. He had fewer PP points this season than Dan Cleary did, and only one more than Nyquist did (in far fewer games). He flat out stunk on the PP as Torts would say. That's why he didn't get more time.

Edit: Here's something indicative, even if you take away all of Weiss' power play points, since the 2006-2007 season he still scored 208 pts. During that same period Filppula scored 250 pts (pp included). I picked the 06-07 season as my beginning point because since then both Weiss and Filppula have played exactly the same number of games. So with ZERO pp time in that span, Weiss would have only scored 42 pts. less than Filppula did with all of his pp time, which over the course of those seven season equates to 6pts. per season. So Flip with all his PP time, and Weiss with none of it, is good for six more points per season on average.

Edited by kipwinger

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Again, given how bad our PP was last year and at the beginning of this year Weiss would have been afforded every opportunity, just as Filppula has been. And considering his track record with substandard talent, there's every reason to believe that he would have produced MORE than he did in Florida and earned time on the top PP unit. Just as Filppula could have done. You're making it seem like Filppula hasn't been given a chance to shine on the PP. Either that or that he's been given the chance, played well, and then demoted for basically no reason at all. And don't tell me the reason he didn't see more time was because he was outplayed by better players. He had fewer PP points this season than Dan Cleary did, and only one more than Nyquist did (in far fewer games). He flat out stunk on the PP as Torts would say. That's why he didn't get more time.

What I am saying is Filppula and Weiss would get more ice-time and PP time swith Florida and would produce more there than in Detroit. The reason Filppula hasn't got much ice-time and PP time is that the Wings have similar players that are better than him and Weiss.

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What I am saying is Filppula and Weiss would get more ice-time and PP time swith Florida and would produce more there than in Detroit. The reason Filppula hasn't got much ice-time and PP time is that the Wings have similar players that are better than him and Weiss.

I'm not really sure if I follow your logic. It's sort of a platitude to suggest that all things being equal, somebody will score more with more ice time. That's true of every player in the league. But that's not the only thing that factors into production. Even on the second PP unit, Filppula had better teammates surrounding him and played against lesser quality competition (if you consider the 2nd pk unit is worse than the first). I'll grant you that Weiss would have a tougher time getting top PP minutes in Detroit, but there's no reason to believe that he wouldn't produce as much or more with better quality linemates and while the quality of competition stayed equal. And he would have gotten that opportunity given how bad our PP has been, and how many PP regulars have missed significant time the last several years.

Edit: Here's an example of what I'm talking about. In the 2011-2012 regular season Kovalchuk led all forward with 4:55 seconds of PP time per game. Claude Giroux had a full minute less with 3:54 seconds of pp time per game. However, Giroux had 9 more pp points over the course of the season. Why? Because Philadelphia had the best ranked power play in the league and New Jersey was tied for 14th.

Every year Detroit has a better powerplay than Florida. So even with the difference in pp time on ice, Filppula should score as much or more than Weiss if their talent level is as equal as you say. Yet he doesn't. Ever.

Edited by kipwinger

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There's a name I haven't thought of in a while, mostly cause he got injured, Kris Versteeg. I think he was making 3 million and scored 54 points and played his ass off every night. Damn, what a value. We need some players like that. Not players who don't work hard and are asking for 5.5 mill.

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There's a name I haven't thought of in a while, mostly cause he got injured, Kris Versteeg. I think he was making 3 million and scored 54 points and played his ass off every night. Damn, what a value. We need some players like that. Not players who don't work hard and are asking for 5.5 mill.

I believe that the main criticism of him was that he could be lazy at times.

Edited by Zetts

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Like Filppula, Franzen, etc? Or not as much? Cause the games I watched him in, I didn't see that at all.

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I know most of us have our reasons for not wanting Filppula back, but for being lazy? That's a first.

Ya no kidding the dude worked hard just not a goal scorer.

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