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Wings interested in Weiss

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I like the idea of adding some playmaking skill, but Detroit has a glut of forwards right now. When it all pans out, I'd much rather see Nyquist, Andersson and Tatar on the team full time over various veteran players currently signed, or currently UFA. Nothing wrong with Weiss - just not sure they have the room for him without compromising the impending youth movement.

THIS. My thoughts exactly. We already have some vets signed like bert and sammy so we cant really do this without buyouts or leaving the kids out another year.

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I agree with everyone leaning towards the idea that we already have enough smallish forwards who are pass first.

Give me size and goal scoring before Weiss

Like who?

T.Low likes this

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I agree with the sentiment that in signing Weiss, we might just be signing another small, 2-way forward with a good defensive game. Which we don't need. We need someone with decent size, decent hands, a hard shot, and drive. TBH, I don't really feel that Weiss possesses any of those besides decent hands and some drive. That about sums up Flip already, though.

If it were me, I'd make a run at Horton if it would even be possible to rip him away from Boston, and then call my off-season complete.

The fact that we might have to pay more since he will be coming from a new division rival makes the Weiss move kind of dubious for me. Also, his injury history scares me. o.O

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Like who?

I'm guessing he's referring to Clarkson or Horton

I agree with the sentiment that in signing Weiss, we might just be signing another small, 2-way forward with a good defensive game. Which we don't need. We need someone with decent size, decent hands, a hard shot, and drive. TBH, I don't really feel that Weiss possesses any of those besides decent hands and some drive. That about sums up Flip already, though.

If it were me, I'd make a run at Horton if it would even be possible to rip him away from Boston, and then call my off-season complete.

The fact that we might have to pay more since he will be coming from a new division rival makes the Weiss move kind of dubious for me. Also, his injury history scares me. o.O

I agree, but he doesn't really have a history of injury. He's had 2 wrist injuries over 8 seasons.

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I'm not saying that I personally have a solution, but I know what we already have and what we need.

Like Clarkson or Horton as was mentioned.

Agreed, I am not against Weiss but only if the Wings can afford him on top of Horton/Clarkson. People have to keep in mind, Wings need to drastically change their philosophy regarding size and toughness if they want to survive the east.

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I really don't see us getting Horton. He's been gravy for the Bruins, and they're our new divisional-arch-rivals-until-the-end-of-time. Even if he tests the waters, he's going to be asking for a whole effing lot in the way of both coin and term because of his performance of late, and because you don't want to be a middle-earning 2-yearer when you're a one-more-blow-and-I'm-a-jello-head. You want security. Long-term. Plus, we don't really do the whole "power forward" thing. It's so philistine, so uncouth.

I'd prefer Clarkson, but it sounds like he's about as unlikely as Horton.

Bickell's not going to bail for the Red Wings.

We may get Stalberg.

Or Weiss.

We have a wicked one-two in Datsyuk-Zetterberg. But, with Flip leaving (I guess?), we're looking at a sharp dropoff between the second and third line. By which I mean, if and when Zetterberg jumps up to play with Datsyuk on the first line, who becomes the second-line pivot? Helm? I was actually kinda keen on that idea...back when Helm was a healthy, hungry force to be reckoned with. Franzen's a possibility, but the Powers That Be want him on the wing, and for good reason. Anderson impressed, but he's not a top-sixer. (Not yet.) Emmerton is out of his depth unless he's on the fourth line, Abdelkader has a great thing going as Datsyuk's piano-puller, Sheahan's still probably at least a a season away from even cracking the lineup, and even then, he'd be a bottom-six heavy. Jarnkrok is going to get a shot at the Big Gig this coming fall. I guess if he makes the cut, he'd be the guy we're looking for (re: What happens when Zetterberg shifts up a line?) But, my feeling is, even if he leaves the Red Wings Brass breathless, speechless, with jaws through the floor and ground and halfway to China, we're gonna want a solid second-or-third-liner in the mix. A guy like Weiss.

So I wouldn't be surprised if we snag him. Then again, like someone mentioned, we're going to be in the Panthers' division. And, like I mentioned, we are very smallish down the middle. (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, and Jankrok are all 5'11. Emmerton and Ferraro are 6'0. Sheahan's big, but, again, bottom-sixer.) A part of me wonders if Team Holland likes Weiss because, first and foremost and above and beyond everything else, he's 5'11.

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So I wouldn't be surprised if we snag him. Then again, like someone mentioned, we're going to be in the Panthers' division. And, like I mentioned, we are very smallish down the middle. (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Helm, and Jankrok are all 5'11. Emmerton and Ferraro are 6'0. Sheahan's big, but, again, bottom-sixer.) A part of me wonders if Team Holland likes Weiss because, first and foremost and above and beyond everything else, he's 5'11.

13, 40, and 43 have another thing in common, which is that all three of them are excellent defensive centers. I'd rather have a defensively responsible center with good footspeed than a big lumbering guy that just hits people. You can still add size on the Wings, as we've seen with Bickell, Lucic, etc. in these playoffs. Datsyuk frequently played with some combination of Bertuzzi, Holmstrom or Franzen (now Abdelkader) to add "grit" to what he brings.

But I guess I just don't know anything about Weiss' defensive game. It's always assumed that players will get out of Florida and blow up elsewhere, but that doesn't necessarily happen (see: Bouwmeester, Jay). Weiss was a high draft pick that was supposed to be a franchise player, and that never actually happened. There are a lot of teams that have 2nd line centers with numbers like his (Matt Cullen on the Wild comes to mind), and I'm not sure those are viewed as "ideal" options. This is also a player that made $4.1 million in salary last year, whereas Filppula (one year younger) made $3.5 million. I would agree that Filppula has more "open market" value as an upside-rich UFA, but anyone thinking we can just sign him as a "cheaper version of Fippula" might want to think again. If the prices were close, I'd just assume have kept #51.

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Well he missed 41 games in 2006 due to a wrist injury and missed most of this season for the same reason. I'm just going by what seems to be somewhat of a history.

41 games in 2006 was a lot but his wrist never caused him to miss a game again until the last 26 games of this season. Seems to me that his wrist isn't so much an ongoing problem as it is two unfortunate injuries 7 years apart.

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Sorry but why? What would he give us? Size? Nope. he is 5-11/190. Scoring? Not really. he puts up a lot of 45-55 point seasons. Toughness? Nope. Why would we wan him over Filppula? Where is the upgrade? In fact Filppula might be a better player. On top of that we are talking about trading for him-moving assets. Why?

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If I had to pick keeping Filppula or trading him out for Weiss, I pick Weiss. Of course it depends on whatever assets are involved though

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13, 40, and 43 have another thing in common, which is that all three of them are excellent defensive centers. I'd rather have a defensively responsible center with good footspeed than a big lumbering guy that just hits people.

Well, I definitely don't want a big lumbering guy that just hits people. Though, again, Sheahan'll be up soon. (O YES I DID) Jokes aside, I agree: DZH is the best two-way one-two-three in the league. But doesn't this very fact sort of scream for our next forward acquisition, if he's a center, to be a non-"Oh-look-another-5'11-Selke-type. Because we definitely need one of those"-type?

You can still add size on the Wings, as we've seen with Bickell, Lucic, etc. in these playoffs.

True. But I was talking about our centers, specifically.

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Well, I definitely don't want a big lumbering guy that just hits people. Though, again, Sheahan'll be up soon. (O YES I DID) Jokes aside, I agree: DZH is the best two-way one-two-three in the league. But doesn't this very fact sort of scream for our next forward acquisition, if he's a center, to be a non-"Oh-look-another-5'11-Selke-type. Because we definitely need one of those"-type?

True. But I was talking about our centers, specifically.

You don't really need big centers to be a big tough team. None of the Bruins' centers (who play) are over 200 pounds. Yet everybody correctly assumes that they're a big tough team. As long as we got bigger at the wings we don't necessarily need huge centers.

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Sorry but why? What would he give us? Size? Nope. he is 5-11/190. Scoring? Not really. he puts up a lot of 45-55 point seasons. Toughness? Nope. Why would we wan him over Filppula? Where is the upgrade? In fact Filppula might be a better player. On top of that we are talking about trading for him-moving assets. Why?

Filppula has one season with more than 20 goals and 40 pts. Weiss has four 20+ goal seasons and six 40+ point seasons. Weiss also is a career 50% faceoff guy, is noticeably faster than Filppula, shoots more often, plays stellar defense, and kills penalties. He's a MUCH better player than Filppula. I don't know if he's the answer to all of Detroit's offensive woes, but to suggest that he's not is a significant upgrade over Filppula is absurd.

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When it comes to centers I believe you want primarily speed and defensive ability. Because you have to cover more areas of the ice and have to protect the high slot on d. Big slow guys I'd would want on the wing

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hes like val but is consistent and always produces. ill take him.

He has always been the top center getting 20 mins a night and about double the PP time that Filppula got.

Here's a comparison of even strength points. Filppula consistently scored more frequently at even strength. Weiss always got a lot more PP time on the top unit. Filppula would score even more if he were less responsible defensivley.

2012-13

Weiss 17GP, 2ESP, scored an ES point every 121 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 8.5 games and he scored 2 PP points with 2:28 PP time/game

Filppula 41GP, 14ESP, scored an ES point every 42 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 2.9 games and he scored 3 PP points with 2:43 PP time/game

2011-12

Weiss 80GP, 39ESP, scored an ES point every 32.7 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 2 games and he scored 17PP points with 3:17 PP time/game

Filppula 81GP 54ESP, scored an ES point every 22.3 mins of ES ice-time,1 ES point every 1.5 games and he scored 11PP points with 2:17 PP time/game

2010-11

Weiss 76GP 28ESP, scored an ESP every 40.4 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.7 games and he scored 19 PP points with 3:30 PP time/game

Filppula 71GP 31ESP, scored an ESP every 32.1mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.3 games and he scored 08 PP points with 2:01 PP time/game

2009-10

Weiss 80GP 37ESP, scored an ESP every 33.1 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 22 PP points with 3:27 PP time/game

Filppula 55GP 25ESP, scored an ESP every 32.2 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 08 PP points with 2:27 PP time/game

2008-09

Weiss 78GP 39ESP, scored an ESP every 27.07 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.0 games and he scored 21 PP with 3:24 of PP time/game

Filppula 80GP 36ESP, scored an ESP every 30.1, mins of ES ice-time, 1ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 04 PP with 0:47 of PP time/game

Edited by Johnz96

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He has always been the top center getting 20 mins a night and about double the PP time that Filppula got.

Here's a comparison of even strength points. Filppula consistently scored more frequently at even strength. Weiss always got a lot more PP time on the top unit. Filppula would score even more if he were less responsible defensivley.

2012-13

Weiss 17GP, 2ESP, scored an ES point every 121 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 8.5 games and he scored 2 PP points with 2:28 PP time/game

Filppula 41GP, 14ESP, scored an ES point every 42 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 2.9 games and he scored 3 PP points with 2:43 PP time/game

2011-12

Weiss 80GP, 39ESP, scored an ES point every 32.7 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ES point every 2 games and he scored 17PP points with 3:17 PP time/game

Filppula 81GP 54ESP, scored an ES point every 22.3 mins of ES ice-time,1 ES point every 1.5 games and he scored 11PP points with 2:17 PP time/game

2010-11

Weiss 76GP 28ESP, scored an ESP every 40.4 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.7 games and he scored 19 PP points with 3:30 PP time/game

Filppula 71GP 31ESP, scored an ESP every 32.1mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.3 games and he scored 08 PP points with 2:01 PP time/game

2009-10

Weiss 80GP 37ESP, scored an ESP every 33.1 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 22 PP points with 3:27 PP time/game

Filppula 55GP 25ESP, scored an ESP every 32.2 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 08 PP points with 2:27 PP time/game

2008-09

Weiss 78GP 39ESP, scored an ESP every 27.07 mins of ES ice-time, 1 ESP every 2.0 games and he scored 21 PP with 3:24 of PP time/game

Filppula 80GP 36ESP, scored an ESP every 30.1, mins of ES ice-time, 1ESP every 2.2 games and he scored 04 PP with 0:47 of PP time/game

On this we agree. Weiss=Filppula at best. Fil is a little younger and a little heavier. That being said I don't think we have the money for either one of them unless we choose not to resign Brunner and Cleary.

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stats

It's easy to ignore the relative quality of each player's linemates, isn't it? The Panthers have been one of the worst teams in the league since the lockout. Up until two seasons ago, the ownership hardly spent any money; when it was necessary for them to do so in order to reach the salary floor---and thus have access to funds from revenue sharing---they responded by shelling out oversized contracts to players of dubious worth.

In other words, Weiss has played with mediocre linemates for his entire career. And he has done so against the top lines of the opposition.

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It's easy to ignore the relative quality of each player's linemates, isn't it? The Panthers have been one of the worst teams in the league since the lockout. Up until two seasons ago, the ownership hardly spent any money; when it was necessary for them to do so in order to reach the salary floor---and thus have access to funds from revenue sharing---they responded by shelling out oversized contracts to players of dubious worth.

In other words, Weiss has played with mediocre linemates for his entire career. And he has done so against the top lines of the opposition.

I responded to someone who said Weiss has consistently been more productive than Fil .Weiss has played with the best and most offensive platers on his team. Filppula often centered the 3rd line. More often than not when players move to a better team they score less.

Edited by Johnz96

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Filppula and Weiss are pretty much identical in my book, except Weiss has the track record and has proved he can hold down a top line, let alone a 2nd line. Flips hasn't really proved that yet, and hopefully he does cause I doubt holland would trade out Val for Weiss

I think Holland is much more likely to trade for the rights to Matthias than he is for Weiss

Edited by number9

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I think Holland is much more likely to trade for the rights to Matthias than he is for Weiss

I would absolutely love that! Matthias works hard and has a pretty good balance of skill and heart imo.

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Filppula has one season with more than 20 goals and 40 pts. Weiss has four 20+ goal seasons and six 40+ point seasons. Weiss also is a career 50% faceoff guy, is noticeably faster than Filppula, shoots more often, plays stellar defense, and kills penalties. He's a MUCH better player than Filppula. I don't know if he's the answer to all of Detroit's offensive woes, but to suggest that he's not is a significant upgrade over Filppula is absurd.

Weiss wouldn't be an answer to our offensive woes, but he wouldn't hurt. Somebody has to replace Flip, right? Might as well be a guy who can put up more points. I don't get the anti-Weiss attitude. If he's our big acquisition I agree, it's not going to hand us the Cup, but he prevents us from getting worse and makes us a little more consistent up front.

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