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roboginger

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#2334503 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by StormJH1 on 21 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Not that the PA's offer was the be-all-end-all, but from the reporting it sounds like the League is sitting back waiting for the PA to come up with some kind of offer that will fix all the League's problems for them.

I think the league is sitting back because after their "3 up, 3 rejected" response within the course of an hour to the NHLPA's counteroffers in October, they'll look like absolute clowns if they reject this thing immediately again. Still, as this portion of Pierre LeBrun's article hints, I find it hard to believe this approach will gain a significant foothold for the NHLPA:

BASED ON PERCENTAGE OF HRR
For the first time, the NHLPA offered a framework based on the league’s preferred system of a percentage linked to hockey-related revenue, instead of a system based on guaranteed dollars. In this case, the NHLPA agrees to go to 50 percent of HRR right from Year 1. However, a key line in the proposal bears underlying: "There are no guarantees or fixed targets, other than a requirement that, beginning with the second year of the Agreement, players’ share, expressed in dollars, may not fall below its value for the prior season."

Essentially, it means the players are guaranteed to make no less in total dollars than the year before. The league won’t like that.


The NHL have to be nuts to guarantee the players that their share of revenue will not go down in subsequent years. What if the fans revolt and attendance is down? What if the world economy takes a massive dump and people just stop spending money on the NHL?

Let's say HRR is $3 billion next year (randomly selected #). In Year 1, you have a 50/50 split, so $1.5 billion each for owners and players. Let's say in Year 2, HRR drops to $2.2 billion for some reason. Under the NHLPA proposal, the players now have over 68 PERCENT of HRR b/c the CBA says that they can't make less than $1.5 billion.

Also, the language makes no sense to me. If Year 2 has to be as high as Year 1, then does Year 3 have to be as high as Year 2? In other words, it could never drop below whatever number it was in Year 1. However, it could go up. The NHLPA is basically proposing a unilaterally fixed MINIMUM for the players. No way in hell the league agrees to that, and I don't blame them in this instance.


#2334385 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by sleepwalker on 20 November 2012 - 06:50 PM

oh my...When I say it's both sides I mean nhlpa AND bettmans fault...I don 't like either side...I don't stand closer to either side meaning I'm not going to do like "some" on here and say it's all bettmans and the owners fault . that doesn't mean that I'm all in on saying it's the nhlpa's fault either.


OK, fair enough. Almost everything I have seen you say up to this point though has been pro-league and anti-union/Fehr, so you can't blame me for thinking that.


#2334370 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by sleepwalker on 20 November 2012 - 04:40 PM

Everyone, please remember that this thread is for discussion of the lockout, meetings, etc. pointing out each other's posting style and viewpoints in a "gotcha" game isn't exactly staying on topic.


True, true.

What I think the problem is, is certain people on BOTH sides of the arguement in this thread are completely ignoring the specifics of the actual CBA proposals and have taken either a hardline pro-league or pro-players stance based 100% on their political views regarding unions, and nothing else.


#2334067 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by chances14 on 14 November 2012 - 07:29 PM

Renowned mediator wants crack at talks

Bring this guy on board asap


#2333959 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 13 November 2012 - 03:22 PM

Just mindless speculation because I’m bored...

Thats the problem. 75 pages and the lockout is still ongoing. I really can't wait until this is done so I can start engaging others on how Dats scored in the shootout and how Franzen is lazy and he sucks (well, I don't believe that, but I digress.....)

I am pretty jaded towards the whole lockout now. I was emotionally involved, but now I just don't care anymore if the NHL comes back.


#2333706 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 08 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

I just find it amazing that both sides have spent more time negotiating in the last two days than they have in the last 6 months. Where was this sense of urgency in June/July? Just further proof that neither side deserves your financial support when the sport comes back. If both sides gave a crap, they would have been doing this in July instead of pontificating for the press and acting like spoiled brats.

I do hope a deal gets done soon so I can watch the Wings on TV again.


#2331854 Who was the better Wing/Player? Yzerman or Lidstrom

Posted by wings_fanatic on 16 October 2012 - 10:26 PM

To me Stevie was great. He was a great player, a great leader and even a better person. BUT, Nick Lidstrom is slightly a step up in that he was never phased, was always on his A game whether he was 25, 30 or 42... the guy simply always had it. I have went to several Red Wings games in my short 21 year life, and I can honestly say that anytime number 5 came on the ice I felt safe, I felt like there was nothing the team had to worry about because he simply did everything perfectly and so effortlessly. More then that, he was literally ALWAYS there.

As you guys have said, we are spoiled to even be able to have this debate in the first place, but for me Lidstrom was the guy who I always idolized growing up and I met him 4 times and he was just such a nice guy. I cried when Stevie Y retired and I cried harder when Nick retired... it is like losing a family member. Lets just be thankful we have so many great memories of both of these greats.


#2332629 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 24 October 2012 - 03:15 PM

The thing is too, Bettman and Daly refuse to negotiate unless the Fehr brothers are nogotiating on their terms, off their proposal they tabled Tuesday and willing to make only minor changes. That is not negotiating, not at all. At least the Fehr brothers have tried to get in a room and hash it out, but the evil twins refuse to listen unless fehr says we want to accept your proposal but negotiate the "make whole" issue. That is why I am against Bettman, he consistently refuses to negotiate, while Daly says there is nothing to discuss. There is plenty to discuss.

I agree 100% with your assessment. What Bettman and Daly are doing now is petty. Not that we haven't seen this from Fehr in these negotiations though. Before the NHL's big 50/50 proposal hype, they were waiting on Fehr to table a proposal, and Fehr never did. His response was that this wasn't "ping-pong" and the NHLPA proposal was what they wanted to work from.

So, while you are against Bettman, just realize that Fehr pulls the same crap when it benefits him.

True.

But the devil was already in this fight. And he is a hateful, mean, vindictive devil who hates the players with a passion and would never negotiate in good faith no matter what the circumstances.

So the players had no choice but to bring in a "devil" of their own to help even up the fight, lest their souls be devoured and they lose everything to the original devil, dark lord Bettman.

In the end, the fans lose.

Which is why I say the NHL and NHLPA can go jump off a cliff.


#2332120 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 18 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

Bettman: I offer 50/50
Fehr: I offer 57/43
Bettman: Wait, didn't you offer us that in your initial proposal?
Fehr: Yes, but we are bargaining here. I have a couple other proposals.
Bettman: Ah, good. What are they?
Fehr: Proposal #2 is 57/43
Bettman: Wait, what is the difference?
Fehr: Well, this one is actually 57.5% because I felt like being a prick since you were a prick to us in your first proposal.
Bettman: Fair enough, what about your last proposal?
Fehr: Proposal #3 is 56.5/43.5
Bettman: A half of a percent difference?
Fehr: Well, since you came up from your earlier demands, we thought we would come down a bit.
Bettman: Wow. Is that all?
Fehr: Yea, see ya.

This post is very telling.

It would've saved me a lot of time and energy if earlier in the thread you included these imaginary conversations that you get so pissed about.


#2330511 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by Nightfall on 02 October 2012 - 05:16 PM

Indeed. The reason I believe that even more is just like they acted like they were 'willing' to negotiate on the 15th to avoid a lockout. It's nothing more than PR. Especially when I watched live footage of Bettman saying he isn't worried about the time frame and there is plenty of time for negotiations...after the season. He clearly wasn't ready then, what would have made him in January? He knew they were going to lockout. Hell, I knew LAST YEAR we were going to a lockout.

I'm not taking sides...but I'm also not going to sit here and affirm the league was willing to negotiate in January as a means to slight the PA saying they waited. That's bulls***. Nothing was proved.

So, in short, you are willing to take what the NHLPA says at face value, but when the NHL says something you don't believe it. All through that, you are saying that you are not taking sides. Good to know.....


#2328970 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by uk_redwing on 16 September 2012 - 08:26 AM

Some more meaningless words from the NHL:

Despite the expiration of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the National Hockey League has been, and remains, committed to negotiating around the clock to reach a new CBA that is fair to the Players and to the 30 NHL teams.

Thanks to the conditions fostered by seven seasons under the previous CBA, competitive balance has created arguably the most meaningful regular season in pro sports; a different team has won the Stanley Cup every year; fans and sponsors have agreed the game is at its best, and the League has generated remarkable growth and momentum. While our last CBA negotiation resulted in a seismic change in the League's economic system, and produced corresponding on-ice benefits, our current negotiation is focused on a fairer and more sustainable division of revenues with the Players -- as well as other necessary adjustments consistent with the objectives of the economic system we developed jointly with the NHL Players' Association seven years ago. Those adjustments are attainable through sensible, focused negotiation -- not through rhetoric.

This is a time of year for all attention to be focused on the ice, not on a meeting room. The League, the Clubs and the Players all have a stake in resolving our bargaining issues appropriately and getting the puck dropped as soon as possible. We owe it to each other, to the game and, most of all, to the fans.


http://www.nhl.com/i...641584&cmpid=fb


Nothing much I hate more in sports than the legal drafted bulls*** PR statement by the arrogant, greed filled people who think we as fans are simpletons waiting to lap up anything and everything they say with open wallets to throw money at them afterwards.

AHL for me.


#2328971 [Retired] Official Lockout Thread

Posted by evilzyme on 16 September 2012 - 08:45 AM

ill be rolling to grand rapids quite a bit. jurco's slated to start this year right?


#2292293 Will Detroit win this series?

Posted by rrasco on 18 April 2012 - 03:11 PM

I've said it long before the playoffs began...This team won't make it outta the 1st round.


You know why I hate this attitude? Because you guys make statements like they won't make it out of the first round, and defend them saying, 'Hey, I'm not gonna be saying I told you so if it hapapnes." Well.....here is proof that is not the case. I know you may not have specifically said that, but people who defend your statements do.

And no I don't think Detroit will win. If anything, they will win games 5 and 6 to only drop game 7. But I still hate some people's attitude about the team. I'm already depressed enough, I don't need anybody reminding me.

the series is not over until the team that is leading the series wins 4 games,game 5 is gonna be a huge game the wings, for them it is either win big or go home defeated


Thanks for clearing that up for us, we had no idea that's how it worked.


#2292251 Until the End ...

Posted by Wings_Dynasty on 18 April 2012 - 01:51 PM

If Lidstrom's last game is a loss to the Predators in the first round, I will lose all faith in humanity and justice in the universe.


#2291939 WCQF Game Four GDT : Predators 3 at Red Wings 1

Posted by wingsfan4795 on 18 April 2012 - 12:41 AM

The wings played great. They lost because of 3 mistakes that ended up in their own net.

And blame rinne, not Howard. Howard played well tonight, but was a victim of being left out to dry a couple times.
- goal 1 was not his fault at all
- he was out of position on goal 2 but someone should have covered Klein
- goal 3 (which didn't really have an affect on the game) was all clearys fault


If they can solve rinne and gain some momentum, they can pull out of this hole

Edit: that's what she said on the second half of that last sentence :)