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WingedWheel91

Member Since 11 Mar 2013
Offline Last Active Jul 22 2016 03:20 PM
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#2675750 IIHF World Championships

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 11 May 2016 - 03:31 PM

There are a few flaws in your argument though. 

 

1. Datsyuk was a primary scorer while Nyquist was a secondary scorer. So comparatively Datsyuk was just as bad (if not worse than Nyquist).

 

2. Nyquist's quality of teammates are worse than Datsyuk (who primarily played with Brett Hull and Henrik Zetterberg). Datsyuk also averaged about 3+ minutes more ice time in his 2nd seasons and beyond in the playoffs

 

3. Datsyuk's first good playoff year was after his first 41 playoff games. Nyquist has only played 35 playoff games. 

 

And then you're using hindsight bias to confirm that Datsyuk figured it out. Even though it took him a looooong time to figure it out. And at the time we were all saying exactly what we are saying of Nyquist. The narrative then for about 4 years in a row was "Pavel Datsyuk is not cut out for the playoffs". Easier to look back in hindsight tho.. But you aren't open to the idea that Nyquist might be a late bloomer as well? I mean sure he might not pan out... maybe Nyquist will never figure it out. But seeing as how Datsyuk took 41 games to figure out, and knowing Nyquist has played about 35 games so far, I think we can at least give Nyquist another 6+ games to see if he finds his mojo.

 

But hey I'm open to the idea of trading Nyquist. Especially if it means getting someone who can score in the playoffs (Kyle Okoposo)

 

I'm not ready to give up just yet on Nyquist either, but I think a couple of important points are being missed here:

 

#1 - Datsyuk's first 37 playoff games were played before the first lockout in 2004/2005 - so it isn't a surprise that he struggled offensively, as the obstruction rules (which were producing historically low goal totals) had yet to change. His playoff numbers (like a lot of other skilled forwards) increased in 2005/2006 after the crackdown. For example, our Stanley Cup "greatest team ever" run in 2001-2002, saw Brendan Shanahan lead our team in scoring with only 75 points.

 

#2 - 21 out of Datsyuk's first 37 playoff games came as a rookie in 2002. This was before the Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Hull line, and maybe before he even had powerplay time... To compare Nyquist's first 35 playoff games as a secondary scorer on a fringe playoff team who lose consistently in the first round, to Datsyuk as a secondary scorer on maybe "the greatest team ever" is a tough one for me, no matter how bad Pavel's point totals were.

 

#3 - Ice time is also a difficult metric to use when comparing players who (A) play a different position and (B) play a different role. Datsyuk was the premier two-way center in the NHL for a long time - his shutdown/penalty killing ability didn't show up in the boxscore - but neither did the players he was out against, which certainly helped win us games. Unfortunately, if Nyquist doesn't produce offensively, he isn't doing much atall.




#2675073 Official - Little Caesars Arena

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 04 May 2016 - 10:31 AM

Do we even have mods anymore or what? Frank makes homosexual slurs in another thread, with no discipline associated, and now this guy's comments? I thought the rules on offensive posts were pretty clear but apparently that doesn't matter if nobody does anything about it.

 

Donald Trump is your republican candidate... The MOD's can't help you now.




#2674960 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 May 2016 - 10:37 AM

 

I think you're missing my point entirely. 

 

It's 2016.  By the time next season is in full swing it will be 2017.  10 years removed from 2007.  Even if you want to argue we were contenders between 2010 and 2013 (which I would say we were not since the results were embarrassed by the sharks and almost swept, almost swept by the sharks again, embarrassed and almost swept by the preds in the first round, and choking away a 3 - 1 lead against the blackhawks,) That will be four years ago.  Four years is an eternity in professional sports. 

 

Guys forget about what happened in the distant past.  Look at the here and now. The ship is sinking.  It has been sinking for a long time.  At some point you have to hold leadership responsible.  You can't keep looking to the captain and saying "Well he lead us on some successful voyages a long time ago!". 

 

Or let me ask the question this way:

 

Are you happy with how our season ended this year?  What about last year?  The year before?  What about the one before that one?  What about every year going back to 2010?  How many of those are you happy with the outcome?  The answer should be 0. 

 

29/30 teams will be unhappy with their season when it ends this year... Just like last year, just like the year before, and just like the one before that one. No-one is happy when they miss the playoffs, and none of the playoff teams are "happy" when they lose a 7 game series.

 

Apparently it was my point that was missed, so I'll paraphrase: It's extremely difficult to make the playoffs every year in a salary cap system (Detroit remains the only team to accomplish that). But It's impossible to remain a cup contender for 10, 15, 20 years when you don't have a single top 10 draft pick to turn the generation over with.

 

What we are witnessing today is that very turnover - most contending teams today (as I pointed out), have taken an average of missing the playoffs for 10 years to complete that process, but it looks like we're right in the middle of it, without missing the playoffs. If that's what you call a "sinking ship" I guess you haven't paid much attention to some of the other re-builds around the league.




#2674950 This hits the nail on the head......

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 May 2016 - 08:33 AM

We haven't realistically competed for a cup since 09.  That's now SEVEN YEARS.  Expecting a team to compete for a cup once in 7 years is not asking too much nor does it make us "spoiled fans".  You want to know what fan base is happy just making the playoffs?  The Maple Leaves.  Is that who you want to be?

 

Here's what your missing:

 

If we're talking about the Salary Cap era, you can argue that the Red Wings were at (or near the top) of the "Stanley Cup favourites" list from 2007-2013 - Yes, we had a couple of early round exits in that range, but so did many of this years "favourites" in Chicago, Anaheim, and LA... it happens annually in the NHL.

 

The difference is that when our run began in 2007, almost all of the teams you would consider as front runners this year (Washington, LA, Chicago, St.Louis) did not qualify for the playoffs. If you go in depth, Chicago had a run from 1998-2009 where they only made the playoffs once, and didn't win a single round... Today they represent the modern day dynasty, and model of success. The LA Kings had a stretch 2002-2012 where they only made the playoffs once, and didn't win a single round. The Capitals didn't win a round from 1998-2009 - and missed the playoffs entirely in most of those years. The Penguins? They were a ping-pong ball away from bankruptcy and relocation.

 

What we have accomplished is extremely rare, and something I will always be proud to hear: We haven't missed the playoffs in 25 years. Let's not forget that the teams we envy today, spent (on average) about a decade out of the playoffs, mixed in with the odd 30th place finish. If you understand the salary cap and the fact it's working, how can you complain about the results we've had?




#2674220 Official - Little Caesars Arena

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 28 April 2016 - 01:06 PM

Maybe it'll garner the nickname  'The Oven'?

 

Thank God the Illitch family isn't German.




#2673865 Free Press: Pavel Datsyuk to return to Russia following Playoffs

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 26 April 2016 - 02:23 PM

 

You're right, I realized that moments after my post. Even if he was to get paid it probably wouldn't hurt the Ilitch's. The cap is another matter altogether. It's all in Ken Holland's hands now then. Sigh.

 

It could collaterally make the Illitch family more money...

 

If the money was paid to Pavel but didn't count against the cap, we could replace him with someone in the same price range - and almost certainly get more production. Maybe we win a round in the playoffs and potentially get (5 or 6) home games instead of (2)... That more than pays for his contract.




#2673860 Free Press: Pavel Datsyuk to return to Russia following Playoffs

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 26 April 2016 - 01:58 PM

 

A bit too much sauce on this for my taste. Nevertheless you are correct - he's leaving. And yes, he's not producing, it's time to go. Let's realize that and work from there. And by Holland's interviews he's aware.

 

The honorable thing in my opinion would be that Datsyuk just said "I'm not getting paid this season, as I'm not playing - money back". But of course in today's world that's not even a consideration.

 

Datsyuk wouldn't get paid (by the Red Wings) next season if he retires this summer.

 

The issue he creates is that his cap hit acts as a penalty, in the same summer that another franchise center is available in the prime of his career.




#2669755 ECQF Game 2 Post-GDT: at Tampa Bay 5, Red Wings 2

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 16 April 2016 - 07:31 AM

Difference between this year and last:

(1) Mrazek has the ability to steal a game. Howard does not.
(2) Babcock is a much better coach than Blashill.
(3) Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall are all noticeably worse players a year later.

Can't be shocked - this team is what it is... Shouldn't have made the playoffs and now we're surprised we lost 2 in a row in Tampa.

No Mantha and Smith are not the answer, our problems are far greater than Smith and Mantha -> Ericsson and Andersson.


#2667421 ECQF Game 1 GTD: Red Wings at Tampa Bay Lightning, 7:00 ET

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 13 April 2016 - 07:14 AM

3-0 Red Wings.

 

#1 - Andersson retrieves the puck coming up the boards, and buries a clapper from the half wall - fooling Ben Bishop.

#2 - Andersson hammers one home from 36" - right after Quincey hits him the ass from the point.

#3 - Andersson (who has earned full trust from the coaching staff) is out there protecting the 2-0 lead, unselfishly dishes the puck to Glendenning for the empty netter. I throw my hat at the TV in respect to El Chapo Andersson.

 

#YesWeCandersson




#2667299 Mantha

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 12 April 2016 - 01:48 PM

2015/16 points per 60 mins of game time for the RW under all conditions:

 

AA 2.52

Tatar 2.32

Franzen 2.32

Datsyuk 2.22

Nyquist 2.07

larkin 2.04

Z 1.92

Pulk 1.73

Richards 1.67

Abby 1.67

Mantha 1.54

Helm 1.34

Sheahan 1.22

Glendening 1.02


 

Numbers don't lie. Mantha produced more points per 60 mins of game time than Helm and Andersson. Yes it was only for 10 games. But he did produce more. Now who is going to get better? Helm who has always been between 1.25 and 1.5 for his career or Mantha who is just beggining?

Mantha was 11th overall this year. Franzen is out forever, datsyuk is leaving, and Richards is a UFA. Makes him a top 9 guy next year as a minimum. More than likely top 6. So Play him!

 

One small argument:

 

Mantha recorded 66% of his points on the PP and doesn't kill penalties.

 

Helm recorded 0% of his points on the PP and does kill penalties.

 

Point being - The PPG/60 Minutes stats are skewed if you are trying to find out who is better offensively - when one player (Helm) spends a certain % of his minutes killing penalties, and the other (Mantha) spends a certain % of his minutes on the PP,  but neither play both.

 

Using 5on5 metrics is more helpful in determining this:

 

Helm - 0.34 5vs5 PPG

Mantha - 0.10 5vs5 PPG

 

Not such a slam dunk.




#2667088 Mantha

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 11 April 2016 - 01:27 PM

I guess some people forget that we have plenty of guys this year that went scoreless over a stretch of 10-15 games

But hey lets s*** on the talented kid and let the veterans off the hook cause it's the redwing way

 

FWIW, Henrik Zetterberg has recorded 1 Goal and 8 Assists with a -18 rating in his past 24 Games.

 

People are worried about Datsyuk retiring? I think I'm more worried about Zetterberg not retiring for 5 years.




#2667032 Playoff Lines + Mantha Back to GR

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 11 April 2016 - 09:24 AM

 

Ugh....you're right....Holland will strike out on Stamkos and Yandle (Suter and Parise part duex) and then rush to give Richards and KFQ contracts with raises and NTC's as a panic move...its all so clear!

 

I still don't know what games people are watching when they complain about "KFQ"...

 

Do you guys understand playoff hockey? Quincey is our only Defenceman I'm glad to have when the game gets physical. Have you guys not watched the past 10 days of "playoff" hockey? He's been our best Defenceman...




#2665249 Wings fans, I need your help -- Octopus etiquette

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 07 April 2016 - 01:36 PM

This website is awesome.




#2664718 HNIC Rumor: Datsyuk to return to Russia

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 06 April 2016 - 10:33 AM

I'll say it again:

 

These people get paid millions and millions of dollars annually to shoot a rubber puck into a mesh net; When these same people push for a 3 year contract at 35+ years old (which is not the organizations idea) - they do so knowing the implications early "retirement" will cause - so I have no idea how you can justify leaving after the 2nd year, to go and do the exact same thing somewhere else because you "want to gives back to Russia people".

 

That's great Pavel - and can you also "gives back" our $7.5 Million salary cap penalty which basically prevents us from signing Steven Stamkos?

 

Stop being emotional, Pavel Datsyuk is not injured or unable to be an effective NHL player... He is literally going to do the exact same thing next season for a different team without caring about the setback it causes the Detroit Red Wings... The same team that signed him in 2001 (when the "Russia people" weren't paying nearly as much money to it's players).

 

I don't know about you, but if someone in a foreign country offered to pay me $74,525,000 over 14 seasons to play hockey, I probably honour the 15th season as well. 




#2663601 2016 Playoffs % chances (part II)

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 31 March 2016 - 01:19 PM

Against my better judgment, I will try and be optimistic about our chances.

 

DETROIT

April 1st - VS MIN (This will be the 2nd game of a back to back, as well as the 3rd game in 4 nights for MIN)

April 2nd - @ TOR (They have done way too much winning the past 2 weeks, currently sit in a 3 way tie for #1 overall in the draft lottery)

April 6th - VS PHI (Among the 16 current playoff teams, PHI has registered the fewest road victories - 3 fewer than us)

April 7th - @ BOS (This is what our season comes down too - BOS has lost 6 of its last 7 games)

April 9th - @ NYR (This will be the last game of the season for both teams, very likely a game without standings implication for NYR)

 

BOSTON

April 1st - @ STL (STL has the 2nd most Points in the NHL, 8-2-0 in its past 10)

April 3rd - @ CHI (CHI is 24-11-3 at home, Fighting to fend Nashville off)

April 5th - VS CAR (Realistically, BOS probably wins this game)

April 7th - VS DET (This is what their season comes down too - DET has been long overdue for a goal-tending performance from Mrazek)

April 9th - VS OTT (Hopefully it doesn't come down to this)

 

All in all, stranger things have happened