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Member Since 11 Mar 2013
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 01:16 PM

#2425350 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 10:47 AM

Only there is not going to be much help coming through the ranks in the next 2 years that will address the weaknesses of this team. There are not that many big, crash the net scorer's around. Datsyuk and Zetterberg is already on the decline. Sooner or later these missing pieces must be addressed if this team is serious about contending for another Cup before the retirement of the aforementioned. Now would be the time to take a chance on Clarkson or Lecavalier, not three years from now.
Funny how you mention constructive discussion in a thread created in critique of people's frustration with Holland's inaction.

The idea of the thread was also to look at the bigger picture. Living in Toronto, I can understand the frustration from fans who haven't seen there team in the playoffs in 9 years, or who sign Mike Komisarek, Jeff Finger, and Mikhail Grabovski to long term big money contracts. Or trade Tukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, or how about Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel. These are moves that make it legitimate for a fan base to rally for a new GM.

In Detroit, we have been to the playoffs 22 years in a row. Won Cups and Presidents Trophies in both the non cap and salary cap eras and adapted from being a very good high spending team, to a very good cap strickened team. This year, in a "transition year" after losing Lidstrom, Stuart, Hudler and not cashing in last summer - we weren't supposed to make the playoffs. What happened? We took the Cup Champs to the brink and ran out of gas after two seven game series. Oh, and our farm team won the Calder Cup.

Not bad for a rebuild, I'm sure the Leafs fans would take that season after 9 of missing the playoffs and stockpiling draft picks every year. Which is another thing, how on earth have we been to the playoffs every year... Usually finishing with home ice advantage, while trading most of our 1st round picks, and somehow manage to draft a Calder Cup champion in the process? Probably our terrible GM....

#2425329 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 10:20 AM

Been awhile since I've replied to something here, but I have watched this forum closely for several years.  I am a bit upset with our team this time, and forum bullies/ self-proclaimed experts aside, I feel it's necessary to chime in, or at a minimum, share my opinion (whether you want it or not).  I think this thread is perfect for that!  I don't think it's overreaction for real fans of this team to be upset with the path the Red Wings are headed down.  I feel that star players will cost this team more than others in part due to the sad state of our city, and the fact we don't fill our stands anymore.  The economy alone says that until some major support/ excitement is generated for this team by the people of Detroit, getting some super-star players into the Big D is going to be difficult.  KH needs to pull a shocker deal off just to generate excitement.  Let's face it, if you care enough to post something here, you are a fan, and aren't going anywhere, but that base is starting to dwindle, not grow like in the mid to late 90's and early 2000's...  KH used to really shake things up.  He even proved that this team was capable in the cap era in 2008.  Well, it's several years later, and the team is still hanging on the backs of Dats and Hank.  I believe Holland can't get those superstar players in here, and as good as our farm team is, they can't move up due to Sammy, Bertuzzi and Cleary.  Personally, their run in this playoff, or even that they got there was a fluke.  So here's the big question: What's it going to take?  You need fans and sponsers to make money, you need money to generate excitement and interest.  Hank and Dats are not getting any younger.  Where's it going to come from?  Overreaction, no.  Concerned, very.

I appreciate the response, but I think the star players are the problem and not as much the city. Lecavalier himself said he loved Detroit and would definitely consider coming here, so he met with our GM and was informed that we were not interested in signing a 33 year old, big, slow, centre who has certainly seen a decrease in production to a 5 year contract. It was the right move.

Although Dats and Hank aren't getting any younger, the rest of our team is. In 2014-15 we will roster one of the younger teams in the NHL, which also means your are going to be one of the lower payroll teams and have the ability to overspend where you see fit.

#2425316 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 10:07 AM

I will fully admit that the overreacting on here drives me nuts, at times. I agree with your first two points 100%. After that, we tend to have a different view of the situations.

3. This is my primary disagreement. I have seen others on here wanting him bought out to add some fancy new free agent to the team. I couldn't care less about the cap hit coming off the books if a Samuelsson buyout were to occur; it's about making room on the roster for the younger guys. The man can barely stay healthy for more than a handful of games at a time, and if he does... what real good does he do? Do you want him in your top 6, seriously? He's a 3 million dollar third liner. If his presence on the team next season means that one of Tatar or Nyquist does not have a spot, it's absolute garbage. Cap isn't the issue here - it's a useless player taking away from the progress of others.
4. This isn't so much me disagreeing as it is me simply stating: I don't care if we're not good next year, as we were this year. I didn't care how much noise we made this year, either. Part of us doing well may be used as a justification for bringing a guy like Cleary back, at the expense of some younger guys learning from Z and Datsyuk, first hand. I like Cleary, but I feel his time has passed. Success with this team = Holland things he's got a fantastic team = "well, I guess we can still let the kids overripe." I'm not an advocate of bringing in overpriced, lower-tier FA talent - I'm a fan of letting our young guys get the proper experience now with some of the more talented two-way centers in the game.
5. It's fine to look right now and see that FA class, but how many of those guys will actually be there come next summer. Tons of teams lock up their UFA's before they hit the market. Again, I don't want anyone in this year's FA class, but to say that we're saving for next summer has been kind of a cop out for several years now, and was really only a solid idea when Parise and Suter tested the market (Bad outcome, but those are the guys you throw money at.) Don't get me wrong, there are some nice names there (Vanek, Gabs, Kessel, Pominville, etc.)... but how many will actually make it to July 1st?

3. The point is simply that its better to pay Samuelsson to sit in the press box if we aren't going to spend the $10+ Million on THIS free agent class. Much like last year, we started and finished the season with a ton of cap space, so why waste our last buyout on a guy with one year left on his contract when Johan Franzen still has 7 left on his. Foolish to not see how he plays for one more season.

4. Cleary should not get a 3 year contract, but unfortunately I can see why he might. He was our third best player in the playoffs. He finished second in points, and played like a warrior most games. Moving to the eastern conference, he remains one of our ONLY players that plays the style of game you need to to get from most of your roster to battle in the east. Still more polished then ABBY and his point totals reflect that...

5. Next summer, while i know players will still be resigned the free agent class is still going to be MUCH better than this years, but the biggest wildcard will be the compliance buyouts. Next year, the window closes on any chance of cap relief for the remainder of this CBA. Names like Kovalchuk, Parise, Richards, Hossa, are already being talked about.

#2425296 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 09:39 AM

How is it overreaction to expect the best franchise in all of hockey to get the players they want?
The top UFA players next year will want to cash in too...! So at some point the Wings have to show their financial power again.
Heck the Flyers don't have enough capspace but yet are finding ways to land UFAs.
Building from within is nice but you have to surround the only two remaining superstars with other pro ven guys and this not willing to overpay mantra will not get the job done.
Sent from my BlackBerry

My point is that it it seems as soon as a players name becomes available, we expect Kenny to deliver. That's fine, but don't call for his head every time he doesn't sign or trade for that piece - especially since he has a 1/29 chance to do it, and it usually requires an overpayment either financially or from our farm.

The UFA class next year is better because there is much better talent, the cap will be back up, and Sammy, Bert, Gustavvson, Eaves, and Quincey will be off the books.

In terms of Holmgren, look at the big picture. He has 0 cap space, Giroux,, Schenn, Coutorier, all RFA'S to sign next year and one, bad goalie. Then compare Philadelphias succes since 07 to ours, and its easy to see why these moves aren't always beneficial.

#2425188 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 03 July 2013 - 12:18 AM

I thought I would start a thread tonight for those fans who take the time to look at the big picture - rather than broadcast any anger towards one of the best GM's in the NHL just because it didn't go our way today. So before you elect Paul Holmgren as our next GM, consider that since 2007 he has signed 6 contracts to a combined 61 years and $374.5 Millon to players who are NOT currently playing for Philadelphia. (Shea Weber, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Danny Briere, Ilya Bryzalov, and Chris Pronger) you can also add James Van Riemsdyk to that list.

Here are 5 overreaction's I have been exposed to since 10 AM this morning.

1. Vincent Lecavalier - I"ll admit I was intrigued by the possibility of him centering our second line next year...but that's about it. He is 33 years old, is already too slow, and now playing with house money for the duration of this ridiculous 5 year contract. My question is: How motivated is this Stanley Cup champ, who hasn't played more than 65 games or scored more than 25 goals since 09-10, and hasn't been a + player since 06-07 going to be for the next 5 years? Sadly enough, at the same age, Johan Franzen has actually put up better all around numbers since then and who on this site hasn't posted in a "trade Franzen" thread.

2. David Clarkson - Thank God. Why does anyone want this guy signed to a long term contract at 6+ Million per season. Those figures are entering Datsyuk range, and are already in Zetterberg range. Congratulatons on your one 30 goal season Dave, but considering that Hakan Loob, Stephane Richer, Jonathon Cheechoo, Wayne Babych and Dino Cicarelli all scored 50 once... No Thanks.

3. Buyouts - There are like 1 or 2 good centres left in this years free agent crop that 29 other teams have interest in, meaning we probably aren't going to get who we want (Stephen Weiss) because someone will overspend when it's the wrong thing to do (Philadelphia). Collatarally, this means that with 10+ million in the bank and very few targets to spend it on right now, why would we burn our last compliance buyout on either Sammy or Bert who both have 1 year remaining on their contracts, when we still have 4 players signed until at least 2019. The point is, we aren't spending 10 Mill this summer on free agents meaning there is no point in getting rid of any assets simply for cap relief.

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?

5. The Time Is Now - Has anyone seen next years free agent class? Before you erase Vincent Lecavalier from your CapGeek thread team, and visit nhltraderumours.com to pencil someone else into our top 6 while maintaining about $14,000 in Cap Space, consider the future.

#2418082 Blessing in disguise?

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 06 June 2013 - 12:20 AM

Hi guys, I just wanted to share my opinion (and get your's) of not only this whirlwind of a season - but why I'm more content with our heartbreaking loss as each day passes... I hope it helps you cope too.

First, I just want to say that this season was truly a pleasure to watch even though it ended in OT in a game 7, after being up 3-1 in that series. But the truth is, we should have lost that game at the end of the third and probably overachieved as a playoff team overall. What matters now is what happens moving forward, and know that whoever wins the cup this year will forever have an * placed beside there name due to the lockout.

The first item I take solace in, is that we are now in a much better draft position than we would have been if we scored first in OT last Wednesday night. The final 4 playoff teams draft 27-30 regardless of regular season point totals, instead of 18th (the highest pick we have had since taking Martin Lapointe in 1991). Although this draft is considered top heavy, the pick is still more valuable at 18 as a trade asset or to utilize with the best (european) scouting staff in the NHL... Especially when I start thinking about all of the great players we have drafted since 1991.

Next, the timely elimination also allowed several impact players such as Nyquist, Andersson, And Dekeyser to head back to Grand Rapids and finish off OKC to send our farm team to the Calder Cup Finals for the first time since 1992 (Adirondak). Another positive as any sort of Championship experience makes all of those players better moving forward and collatarally increases there individual value as well. Much easier to include a Jurco, Tatar, Ferrarro in a package for a big name after they are integral parts to a Calder Cup run.

Because of the lockout, we ended our season in the second round at the end of May. Had we moved on, our season could have potentially ended close to July with virtually no time for management to negotiate extensions with any of our free agents before free agency begins. Names including: Filpulla, Cleary, Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith and Kindl. Completing this process becomes crucial when attracting other potential UFA's wanting to sign with teams that have all of their key pieces locked up... Datsyuk's extension is probably most important when trying to convince a Horton or Clarkson to come here for a few years.

All in all, I think what happened against Chicago was tough to swallow, but probably better for Detroit as an organization moving forward. If we can say that we won a Calder Cup and were one goal away from the Conference Finals in a "rebuilding year" while rostering one of the younger teams in the NHL, (once Bert, White and Sammy are gone), I don't think I'll be complaining, especially one year into the Post #5 era.

What do you guys think?

#2389442 2013 Season in Review (46 Games in)

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 25 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

Hi Guys - I just wanted to get everyone's opinion on how our season, albeit with 2 games left to play, can be evaluated from a fans perspective.  The 2012/2013 Wings have certainly seen a variety of ups and downs - I know there's going to be a lot of you who will look at fighting for 7th/8th seed nothing short of disappointing, but try to remember that in a compressed season the point totals are somewhat misleading. A quick example: If our 2-5 shootout record was anything close to our 9-3 record from last year, we would be fighting for home ice advantage right now - and I would certainly take 4th place in any transition year, let alone the year following Nick Lidstrom's retirement. 


I have certainly enjoyed the emergence of players like Howard, Abdelkader, Dekeyser (FA Addition), Nyquist, Andersson, Emmerton, and Brunner. It seems pretty surreal, but after watching our team play in Vancouver, against Phoenix and against LA this week, I certainly feel we can still compete against anyone in the NHL and honestly, would not be surprised if we got out of the first round as a 7th or 8th seed to make a run. I use the word surreal, because it seems like all season people have been talking about the 21 year streak coming to an end, and how Detroit is finally going to  face adversity as a team forced to rebuild. But after watching this team, this week, and thinking about what we have done without Darren Helm (who I believe is more valuable than anyone on this team not named Pavel or Jimmy) plus a very young group of Defenseman, and no true #1 (sorry guys, Kronwall is a good Defensemen, but not a #1) I have a renewed sense of excitement.


Datsyuk and Zetterberg still look great together, our second line is finally being anchored by the Mule -  our third line was the best line on the ice last night against LA, and how many chances did Eaves get playing on the 4th line - not to mention, TooToo's GWG. I understand this was one game, and LA played the night before... but what I look at is how we have played this week when it matters, which is all that really does. 


Going forward, after all the negative attention surrounding this team this year, I take comfort in the fact that we can still beat anyone (when we want too) and our farm system is the best its been in years. I truly hope that this thread can finally put an end to the Fire Kenny Holland notion, as he is still one of the best GM's in the NHL. The fact he has been to the playoffs 21 straight years is great, but like Suter said last night, the fact he has done it every year since the inception of the salary cap, is unbelievable. 


Next year with a real off-season, a real training camp, a real trade market for us (being a western conference team moving to the east...at some point... crippled our ability to make the big trade. ex. Rick Nash) and further development from a suddenly young core of players will allow us to once again be at the top of the NHL. 


Let me know what you guys think.

#2368981 The REAL problem with Detroit

Posted by WingedWheel91 on 14 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

It seems that every fan or analyst watching the Wings play this year is at a loss for words when it comes to our scoring and power play - not that these thing's don't need to improve - but continue to describe those two areas of our team as our Achilles heal. Let me me point out that our depth at forward is NOT the issue with this team.


We have two of the best two way forwards in the world, centering our first two lines. We have them paired with capable, at the very least, players in Franzen, Filpulla, and Brunner. Throw in Bertuzzi, Tatar or Sammy as Datsyuk's other winger and you have one of the better top 6's in the league. Helm as a third line center, with Abby in a role he thrives in (not on Pavs wing as a scorer) and again, a very solid third line. I know injuries have been a big part of the problem this year, but people are forgetting who we have in the lineup when it comes to trade talk.


Our offence has struggled because of our DEFENCE. When you roster such a young, but immobile defense core - your offence struggles the most. With experience comes poise, and with poise comes a better first pass, a smoother transition and a smarter chip to exit the zone. I don't care if you have Datsyuk and Z playing together, if they start every shift in there own zone and spend 15-20 seconds trying to breakout, even there offence is going to struggle. 


In our top 6 -

Kronwall - Ericsson

Quincey - Smith
Kindl - Lashoff 


You have by all intensive purposes, 3 rookies that seem to play a very similar, conservative game, a player in Quincey who has played 2 full seasons in the NHL, with limited offensive ability, Ericsson who has never cracked the top 4 in his career before doing so by default this year, and the furthest thing from offensively minded, and then Kronwall. I love Kronner but the guy has only been better than +5 once in his career. He only hits in the playoffs, and is actually a better skater than passer (doing little for our forwards).


I have been most disappointed with Smith, hes getting top 4 minutes, had a ton of hype coming into the season about his offensive instincts (which I believe show potential)  but has 1 ASSIST this season. 


All in all, we need to focus on guys like Bouwmeester, Dekeyser, Streit, Yandle, Gardiner, etc. before even considering adding a guy like Corey Perry at $8.5 mill per. One of those players would help our cause more than I think Perry would, just based on getting out of our zone alone. In all of the games I've watched this year, one thing stands out - the lack of odd man rushes we have produced resulting from a good outlet/stretch pass. The only breakaway I can even remember was Franzen's goal on a pass from Brunner. 


Looking back at our last Stanley Cup run in 2008, out of 12 forwards we had in the lineup - 7 are on the team right now. And instead of Hudler, Draper, and Holmstrom - we have Tootoo, Brunner, and Bertuzzi. Helm and Abdelkader are much better players than they were then, so I can really only point to the difference on D as to why that team was a dominant cup winner, and this team is far from guaranteed a playoff birth. Oh ya, and our goaltending that season was a split between Hasek and Osgood. (Ozzie replaced Hasek in the first round). I would take Howard and how hes playing this season over those two. 


I know Nick Lidstrom can never be overlooked, but seriously - if he was the difference between winning the cup like we did that year, and making the playoffs, I guess we need to start looking. 


Let me know what you think...