Don't forget, Glendenning was also developed by Jeff Blashill...
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WingedWheel91Member Since 11 Mar 2013
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 22 May 2015 - 09:01 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Mike Babcock is a good coach who just joined the Toronto Maple Leafs.
And so were Pat Quinn. Ron Wilson, and Randy Carlyle before him. To say he's a great coach is a stretch, but the best in hockey? Not a chance friends.
Mike Babcock is what he thought he was, a candid, mostly honest and hard working guy. If you listened carefully, he said everything you needed to know in yesterday's press conference in 2 sentences: "This is a massive challenge" and that "It was an offer I had to take". I didn't love the first statement - because I thought winning was his top priority, and for the first time in 10 years we heard him accept that "painful" or tough times are coming, and I also thought his problem with Detroit was that we didn't have a Pavel Datsyuk (franchise center) or a Nick Lidstrom (on the back end) in our pool of prospects, but I get it - the last thing Toronto needs (and I live here) are unreal expectations, so he said what he had to.
But the real reason "this was an offer he couldn't refuse" isn't because of the city, the team, or the "jersey" - and certainly isn't because Toronto has a brighter future than Buffalo or Detroit. It was because he was offered a game changing contract that probably elevates the way NHL coaches will be paid forever. Like players, coaches are also in a union - and have a unilateral responsibility to take action when it positively effects the fraternity. For example, as much as coaches in the Atlantic division might not want to play Babcock 4 times a year, they also raised a beer to him yesterday for arbitrarily making his rival's more money.
If you are worried about Babcock turning the Leafs into a contending team in the near future - please sleep easy tonight. He (himself) has already dismissed that motion several times.
If you are worried about the Detroit Red Wings taking a step back, please wake up. This team has a fantastic coach on the way - and they knew that all along. There's a reason why Ken Holland publicly said "money will not be an issue" yet consistently offered less than anyone else. Oh ya, and about that Franchise Center - seems like Dylan Larkin at 18 years old is about to turn Pro - Datsyuk was 24.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 20 May 2015 - 12:53 PM
If you are a Detroit Red Wings fan, you should be very proud of Ken Holland for doing what he just did.
"Money will not be an issue" - yet we were always the lowest bidder in an attempt to resign Mike Babcock (while knowing him better than anyone). To me, I don't see this is as blind arrogance, but as a brilliant play by Holland to say and do what he had to - knowing the process would end with Jeff Blashill coaching this team for the next decade. I honestly am more excited with this information than I would have been had we re-signed Babcock, and lost Blashill.
Babcock is a good coach, and should be praised for his Stanley Cup here - but his resume only shines with accomplishments that were legitimate expectations as well. He inherited Nick Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg in their prime - yet only took us past the 2nd round of the playoffs in 3 out of 10 years he was in Detroit... (2007,2008,2009). In 2007 we had the most regular season points in the league, and one of the best teams on paper - and we certainly had the best team on paper in both 08/09.
Blashill has coached professionally for less than 6 seasons - and if he wins the Calder Cup this year (which isn't a stretch) he will have 3 championships to show for it. He has also developed more than half of the current Detroit Red Wings roster (who won the Calder Cup 2 years ago), and has since developed players like Pulkinnen, Anthanasiou, and Marchenko the same way he developed the likes of Nyquist, Tatar, and Sheahan. This guy just continues to do it, and seems like he gets more out of these players than Babcock has - albeit at the AHL level.
I don't think we lost the Mike Babcock sweepstakes, but won the Jeff Blashill award.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 15 May 2015 - 09:17 AM
I live in Toronto, and can assure you that Pat Quinn's (modest) success in his time here was primarily due to the fact that he also had roster control (without a salary cap) and MLSE money to spend. He was certainly the best coach the team has had in a long time, but also wasn't challenged to buy players at whatever price it would take. Following the implementation of the hard cap in 2005, he was fired because the Leafs didn't make the playoffs - and this started the magnification of what truly plagues the Toronto Maple Leafs: Bad management and even worse scouting. I can confidently say that Pat Quinn's departure as coach of the team, had very little to do with how bad they have been since.
At the very least, we aren't going to find ourselves in a situation like Toronto because we have the arguably the deepest pool of prospects in the league - complimented by outstanding management/scouting. The other examples in Dallas and Colorado are intriguing, but both are still young teams who have had some success and probably need time to grow before we can truly judge who the better coaching option was.
In terms of Mike Babcock, I used to completely agree with your assessment - but I no longer do.
At the end of the day, this is a results driven and oriented business and in 10 years as coach of the Detroit Red Wings - Babcock has been unable to advance past the 2nd Round of the NHL Playoffs 7/10 times or 70% of the time he's had the chance. In 2008, we won the Stanley Cup and probably rostered the best team in the NHL, in 2009 we added Marian Hossa and certainly rostered the best team in the NHL, but lost in the finals. The only other year he was able to bring the Detroit Red Wings out of the 2nd round, was in 2007 where we lost to Anaheim in the 3rd round... That team finished the regular season with the most points in the NHL. Yes, he made the playoffs every year, but he also inherited a fantastic core of players in their prime... And when those players no longer were, the results have been 3/4 years out in the 1st round. My point is, if the next 10 years were guaranteed to yield the exact same results (including 4 first round exits) would you sign up for it? Keep in mind, the players who made him successful those 3 years I mentioned wont be a part of it.
I am in no way/shape/form saying that Babcock is a bad coach - but is he atleast overrated? Maybe. It seems that his resume really shines because of the back to back gold medals (no pun intended) he recently won with team Canada, but again this is a case of accomplishing what was expected. Without bias, Canada should win every Olympic Gold they play for - they have the deepest forward group, the best defenseman, and the best goalie in the world. Of course its still an accomplishment to do it, but he isn't the only coach who would have - given the opportunity.
My real point of contention with Babcock's return is what we might have with Jeff Blashill. - this guy continues to just do it. He's only Head Coached professionally for 5 years, but already has 2 championships and 4 semi final appearances to show for it. If he wins the Calder Cup again this year (after losing the likes of Tatar, Nyquist, Jurco, Sheahan, Glendenning, Dekeyser, and Mrazek,) he will have won championships 3/6 times or 50% of the time he's had the chance - I hope the Detroit Red Wings realize this, and that they are actually the ones in the drivers seat.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 05 May 2015 - 09:29 AM
Can someone help me out here... What is the true meaning of a "#1 Defenseman"? By definition, there should be 30 "#1" Defensemen in the NHL, correct? The answer: It doesn't really matter.
This is because Defensemen play in pairs, they are tandems built based on chemistry and synergy that hopefully play greater than the sum of their parts. Based on definition, I think it would be foolish to say Nick Kronwall is not a top 30 Defenseman in the NHL, so yes, he's #1... But not an elite #1. The other question is, how can anyone honestly rank Defensemen? Points are only a small indication of Defensman's true value to a team... I watched all and (attended 2) of the Red Wings playoffs games this year and can tell you that Kronwall did as good a job at shutting down Steven Stamkos as anyone else, which is his primary responsibility.
The comparison to Nick Lidstrom is completely foolish, yet so often made. Lidstrom is arguably the best defenseman to ever play the game - Bobby Orr was revolutionary and of course had more offensive talent - but there isn't a Defensman in the history of the game to consistently do more for a team than Nick did, don't forget Bobby only played 9 real seasons in the league. To support that point even further, Lidstrom also played with Brian Rafalski for a good chunk of his career - where Kronwall has played mostly with Brad Stuart and Jonathon Ericsson, so its easy to see where a big disparity in point totals would come from.
I would define a true #1 Defenseman as a player who plays on the top pairing, against the other teams best, playing in all situations - contributing offensively (with a good first pass) while being responsible defensively (limiting turnovers) and demonstrates leadership to support the growth of others.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 30 April 2015 - 02:07 PM
Who cares? It's either Babcock or Blashill - both outstanding coaches... I would personally rather have Blashill because he knows these players as well as Babcock does, and knows the next generation (Mantha, Oulette, Anthanasiou, Pulkinnen) a hell of a lot better. The current Detroit Red Wings, anyway you look at it, are the bi-product of a great job that Blashill has done in terms of development of our young nucleus, and they evidently respect him as a coach, which is massive. It just feels right, let him finish the job he has started and see if he can get more out of a Teemu Pulkinnen or a Tomas Jurco than our current coach has.
I also didn't like Babcock's attitude last night, it was a selfish press conference he used as a marketing ploy to put the spotlight on himself - and the great job "he" has done. Without finding the direct quote, he basically said that the Red Wings have won "too much", and been "too good" in recent years to be in the position to draft a replacement for Pavel Datsyuk or a "Great Player on the Back End", and that "the team isn't as good as it was". My issue here is that the Red Wings were still an extremely good hockey team when Pavel Datsyuk was drafted (in the 6th Round) - actually they won the cup that year (1998), and the year before that (1997), and then again in his rookie year (2002) - so maybe a good future doesn't cost you a miserable few years. I understand that the Salary Cap made it easier back then, but who currently has better future than this? (Besides Edmonton)
TATAR - LARKIN - MANTHA
NYQUIST - SHEAHAN - ABDELKADER
JURCO - ANTHANASIOU - PULKINNEN
BERTUZZI - GLENDENNING - FERARRO
DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO
OULETTE - SPROUL
JENSEN - (THIS YEARS 1ST ROUNDER?)
I am not exaggerating when I ask this, but which forward on that list doesn't have star potential? Yes - we need help on the back end, but defenseman also mature at a much older age than forwards do, and our scouting staff is still the best in the business.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 28 April 2015 - 11:00 AM
As inconsistent as the NHL Department of Player Safety seems to be at times, I think they still primarily focus on 2 aspect's of each reviewable play (much more than any other's): Injury + History.
Because a hearing doesn't guarantee a suspension, I think the 2 main factors in the decision to only FINE Kronwall are as follows:
(1) Kucherov was NOT injured on the play + (2) Kronwall does NOT have any suspension history with the NHLDPS - Actually, he doesn't even have a review history because the Havlat hit was a game misconduct for interference... And interference (at the time) wasn't even grounds for an infraction leading to a game misconduct (which pissed me off).
If I'm wrong and he is suspended, I'd like to channel the 2007 Anaheim Ducks when we beat them 5-0 in Game 3, Pronger got suspended the next game for a hit on Holmstrom (where he also wasn't even penalized on the play) and the Ducks came back and beat us 5-3 in Game 4.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 21 April 2015 - 01:24 PM
Guys, I still don't understand the "it will take a miracle to win this series" attitude.
Game 1 - we got heavily outplayed and won on the road against the best home team (by far) in the NHL without our best power forward.
Game 2 - we got slightly outplayed and lost on the road against the best home team (by far) in the NHL without our best power forward.
Game 3 - we play at home against the worst road team (by far) in the NHL playoffs with our best power forward
Game 4- we play at home against the worst road team (by far) in the NHL playoffs with our best power forward
Series is 1-1... 3 games remaining in DET, 2 games remaining in TB.
I know 1 player (unless Crosby, Ovechkin, Weber) doesn't usually make or break a team - but we can actually roll 3 respectable lines tonight with Abdelkader's return. Furthermore, Sheahan is much more effective as 3rd line Center, and Nyquist and Tatar are back playing with world class Centers who have historically made them more productive.
I posted earlier that I would love to see a JURCO - SHEAHAN - GLENDENNING line, but Babcock actually knows these players a lot better than we do.
Storylines are so fragile... If we take this game its 2-1 and were all the sudden 1 game away from putting these guys on the ropes!
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 17 April 2015 - 09:19 AM
Although logic suggests Abdelkader is not going to play tomorrow, I still have some hope...
Our lines should be:
TATAR - DATSYUK - HELM
ABDELKADER - ZETTERBERG - NYQUIST
JURCO - SHEAHAN - GLENDENNING
MILLER - ANDERSON/WEISS - FERRARO
TATAR PLAYS BETTER WITH DATSUK (RATHER THAN SHEAHAN)
NYQUIST PLAYS BETTER WITH ZETTERBERG (RATHER THAN SHEAHAN)
ABDELKADER PLAYS BETTER WITH ZETTERBERG (RATHER THAN SOMEONE ELSE)
SHEAHAN PLAYS BETTER AS A 3RD LINER (THAN A 2ND)
ZETTERBERG PLAYS BETTER WITH DATSYUK
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 14 April 2015 - 08:37 AM
I felt like this thread needed to happen - I usually don't do this, but seriously guys... Almost every post I have read (from our fans) has the Red Wings out in 4-6 games. It's not going to be an easy series, but what am I reading? Our biggest disadvantage is in net... and the other team has Ben Bishop starting who has NEVER played in a playoff game? Since 2008 this guy was a backup goalie before starting his first season last year, since then he's had 2 good seasons, or 1 fewer than Jimmy Howard has had and Jimmy's best seasons were a lot better than Ben's.
But who cares because..that's right! Petr Mrazek is starting in net for us - now were doomed! Wait a minute, lets check his resume...
2012 - IIHF WJHC - Bronze Medalist - Named Best Goalkeeper in the tournament.
2013 - AHL - All Star, Calder Cup Champion.
2014 - AHL - All Star, 2nd in GAA, 3rd in SV% - Played his first games in the NHL.
2015 - Named playoff starter for the Detroit Red Wings
See a trend starting here...
Well if the goaltending isn't as lopsided as advertised, were still doomed because in 2014-2015 the Tampa Bay Lightning averaged the 2nd highest 5 on 5 goal differential and Shots For/Against (for you analytic fans), and because playoff hockey is played much more at even strength, we have to be in big trouble! Like I said, it wont be easy, but playoff hockey is much different as we have seen our own teams built exactly like this lose to LA, Anaheim, Edmonton, and Calgary in early rounds as prohibitive favourites.
People lose sight of the fact that we have 2 of the worlds best defensive (and offensive) forwards playing against them... As long as we win those matchups, we can win the 5 on 5 puck possession game as well. Obviously, this mean special teams are imperative - but didn't our PP finish 2nd in % and 1st in goals scored this season?
Finally, no explanation required.
KRONWALL - ERICSSON
DEKEYSER - MARCHENKO
QUINCEY - ZIDLICKY
HEDMAN - STRALMAN
CARLE - COBURN (injured)
SUSTR (inured) - NESTEROV
Lets go boys.
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Posted by WingedWheel91 on 16 December 2014 - 04:32 PM
I just had a good laugh at all of the experts on here who contributed to the "Fire Ken Holland" thread, but are now reluctant to part with any of our "overripe" prospects because all of the sudden "they like our team" too. And to everyone who understood that the current NHL landscape doesn't allow for any individual team to compete for the Stanley cup every year, please pat yourself on the back for defending him like I did.
As for a trade to "get our offense going" - We currently rank 6th in the NHL in GPG and 8th in PP% (all after scoring only 4 goals in 3 games in 4 nights). I think the question is "should we make a trade for a new goaltender who can make a save in a shootout?"... kidding.
Posted by WingedWheel91 on 07 July 2014 - 08:32 AM
I would certainly trade Tatar if he were the centerpiece of a package to acquire Tyler Myers. I understand what kipwinger is eluding too (sorry I don't know how to reply to posts with the quote above it) but I think you could also say the same about Myers - who in only 10 months older than Tatar by the way. If you were to compare Chris Pronger, Zdeno Chara and Jay Bouwmeester's first 4 seasons in the NHL, Myers certainy doesn't look out of place (with MUCH better numbers than Chara).
The point is that defenseman - especially "big" defenseman - take much longer to develop than forwards typically do - and when you consider that Myers has struggled the last 3 seasons, look no further than the team he is playing on. It should come as no surprise that his best 2 seasons were the only seasons his team made the playoffs during his career, and his best season (48 points as a Rookie) was also the teams best season (division winners).
Pronger did not have 48 points until his 7th NHL season. Chara did not have 48 points until his 9th NHL season. Bouwmeester has never scored that many points.
I don't really know who his partners have been throughout the years, but I'm willing to bet that he hasn't had one as complete as Kronwall. I can also tell you that when you look at his defensive game (because I am aware that Pronger and Chara are defensive minded players) isn't much further behind then these players as 24 year olds. He would instantly help our PP with his huge RH shot and our PK by finally having a player who can clear the front of the net.
KRONWALL - MYERS
ERICSSON - SMITH
DEKEYSER - QUINCEY
Is a much better top 6 than anything we had last year - don't forget or underestimate that Quincey was a much better player with Dekeyser than he was with Smith.
I would do Tatar, Kindl, Oullete, and a 2016 1st in a heartbeat for this player.
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