Wing Across The Pond

If they are on the 4th, we need a line like the 'Two Kids and a Goat' line with Hull. Did alright for Dats and Z Then again we don't have anyone like Brett Hull to be on that line with them

If Mike Commodore could agree to come here and sit in the press box most of the year, I don't see Babcock as much of a problem. Yes he's only been on a small handful of teams (unlike say Scotty Bowman who moved around a lot), but he is probably THE premier Head Coach in the league today ability-wise, probably along with Hitch. Just my opinion though. I think this Parise/Suter situation was simply something that would only end one way unfortunately.

As per joesuffP as well, he IS a top 4 dman by virtue of necessity at the moment. A lot of people wont like it and will see him as you see him, but I'm just hoping that he can use that good stable defensive play as a basis to move forward and become something more for a team that has invested so much in him. This is pretty much why I felt so weird writing this piece... he divides opinion so much that I'm probably hoping more than anything. As with Axe's comment above, lots of people have lots of opinions on the guy and I fear I'm basing my theory on blind hope. Yet maybe it could happen. Lol then again my friend said, "nah... maybe Kindl but not E". I couldn't help but laugh.

Thanks. I know a lot of people on here wont necessarily see eye to eye with me on this one, but it's simply a feeling that I can't shake inside.

Apologies! Very difficult to gain context on these sorts of things. Reading it back now, I completely see where you are coming from with regards to free agents finding the Wings appealing. My bad. Yet I do think we're still an appealing team for players to come to as we're incredibly well run, not simply from a business standpoint but also from one that means at every level within the organisation it's a pleasure to work at. I think that means a lot to the majority of players, but of course other teams will hold that special extra something for other players.

Ken Holland is the GM. Scotty Bowman was the Head Coach. I have no idea what you're suggesting. It's like saying, what has The Colonel done for me recently? He sucks, his herbs and spices suck. It's been around for too long with no change. The Twister didn't work, etc, etc, etc. He doesn't know what he's doing. The manager in KFC Tokyo branch is their success. They do completely different jobs, which neither could swap and do half as well.

Hi, I'm Gabriel, and occasionally I like to come on and dish out some logic in the face of illogical statements. Firstly, I'm glad you put 'ALMOST' in there, because they're no where near identical cap hits. 12 years would get both players off the books in the 39th year, 13 years would be 40th. That's an extra year at $7.5 when they'll most likely be crappy shells of their former selves. So whilst similar in yearly numbers, not so in practice. For a GM that's a difference maker. As for the second point, if Detroit hasn't lowered their standards then there is still the lure of a chance at winning. What you've put out is close to an unfalsifyable statement, in that I can counter it with an equally valid yet opposite statement and neither can be proved right or wrong. If 'parity' means that more teams have a chance of winning, yet Detroit hasn't necessarily lowered their chances, then yes there will be more teams with a good chance of success yet Detroit will still be in the same strong position only with company. That doesn't mean their appeal for players lowers. See my point? I love my iMac, but those nice new Windows laptops have really closed the gap in regards to performance and technology. Still, iMacs haven't got any worse so I'll stick with them. Make sense? Unfortunately he went to a place where they only have young players looking to develop. By the time they have done, they'll be priced out of that team and will spend their prime years elsewhere. And who is to say that a whole team of young player will even develop as they should without veteran presence at all levels? I understand his decision, but don't necessarily agree. That being said, also don't mind that he didn't end up here as there is no guarantee he'd have faired well or suffered in the NHL. Could have been a risk. I must be fooling myself then because this team is always appealing to me. But that's only because I support them and will during thick and thin. They may not be as successful in years to come but I'll still love watching them and will still cheer every goal and wish them to do well each and every night. That's what I understand as 'appealing'. The first point here, you use in reference to the Wings failing to land two players who decided to sign for a team close to their homes. Everyone has a different 'hometown'. Much like we managed to convincce Mike Modano, only the best American-born player in NHL history, to put off retirement for a year and sign for a hometown discount in the state where he was born and raised. Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances it didn't pan out as it could have but proves the point that everyone has different homes. The second point is a bit of an odd one, because being one of the winningest teams in NHL history, there are far more teams that have more 'first/second round exits' than the Wings. In fact there are far more teams that don't even make the playoffs year on year... Calgary would wish for a first round exit after these recent years. Reference for the above point about 'hometown discount'. Non-bold: Maybe Holland didn't lose a race here. He simply got to a point that was financially viable and make the decision not to go over the top and risk future money. Hence not offering an extra $8m. Deciding to not throw more money and risk losing a contract is a stronger, more ballsy decision than doing it. People might criticise him for doing it but it makes this team stronger going forward than if we had them for that long. If it was 7/8 years then maybe not as much, but 13 is a long time and I think he made a good choice. Also the cap doesn't simply rise a la inflation. It can very well go down. We'd be boned if it did (as MIN will be if it does). Bold: Those aren't facts at all. They are opinions. Why they are not facts? I think 1 is a great player and 1 is a good defenceman who can give solid play but is in no way elite. Also I think Holland is a damn good GM. See, not facts. Opinions. 1) Those ARE facts (see above point). As are those at 2) yet everything else is once again opinion. Not sure how it's crappy management either considering Lidstrom made his own decision (Holland didn't tell him to retire), Schultz is unproven, and Parise and Suter either wanted too much money or wanted to play closer to home. If anything I'm thinking that limiting yourself with money and thinking about the sustained future of the organisation rather than the next 10 years is a good thing. If you're going on age here as well, Gustavsson and Tootoo are both 27, same as Parise and Suter (I only say as people seem to think that Tootoo is old for some reason?!) Yes they're not as accomplished as P & S but one's a goaltender and one's a physical forward. Bert and Sammy also have the experience over all 3 of Parise, Suter and Schultz which can count for everything down the line. People are acting like we lost Dats, Z, Flip, Helm, etc in all this and that we're falling apart. I think we'll be ok, maybe not as dominating as we've been in the past, but come on, we're not the Thrashers here.

Kind of how I feel at the moment. Really wanted him here bad, but might have had to do with the gaping hole on our blue line this year. If he's FA last year then I don't necessarily care about him. Plus I don't trust the hype about a guy who half a year ago was overshadowed by his defensive teammate in Weber. He could by the sort of guy that will lose the hype in a season and then will have 12 years left. I understand Lidstrom was the greatest of this generation but he was always mentioned when discussing great defencemen. Suter seemed to appear when it became clear a lot of teams would be bidding during Free Agency. That being said, I'm seriously disappointed that we didn't land him, we really needed him but he's in no way the stellar defensive talent that will be a key foundation to build a franchise around. Just he was available without having to give anything up but money. Unfortunately we now need to trade Obviously he made a decision based on the rest of his family life... and his secret life with Zach Parise lol kidding

This guy, with his insider knowledge from working with 4 NHL organisations, is actually KING of confirming deals a few minutes after everyone else has. Not to mention he has it on good authority that possibly 25 out of 30 teams are in the running for any one player at any one time. True story. Seriously though, he's like "MIN in talks with X. Also PIT, DET, NYR, NYI, DAL, TBL, TOR, ANA, LAK. Hasn't ruled out NSH, COL, CBJ, CAR, FLA, or NJD... VAN, OTT, SJS also a possibility". He knows nothing. I didn't see any 'insider information' that actually lead to a trade/deal. He even managed to announce a signing about an hour before the player signed elsewhere. Granted TSN did that as well but they just broadcast the news, they don't claim divine right on it. EDIT: SP

This. Man that 4th line was painful to watch last year with Emmerton and Homer on it. Had no identity and looked irrelevant every time it took the ice. This signing changes that.

This the PK that was the only thing that actually rolled for us during the playoffs? Seemed alright to me. If you want to moan, do it about the PP which was non-existant for the second half of the season.

I understand that this is a polarising signing, but seriously, what are you going to do? Stop supporting the Wings? What if they prove to be steller signings and help win us the cup this year? Don't necessarily think that disliking someone for their past actions should preclude them from doing well in the future and turning a new leaf. Avery wasn't a d*** when he came here, why would you think Tootoo would be? There's still a lot of time to sign free agents and we have a lot of pieces to trade if needs be so we're in a pretty strong position on all fronts - have cap space to sign FAs, have pieces to trade, have depth so that trades don't criple us. I'm still going to support the Wings no matter what and support the players who put on that jersey every night and go out there and give their all to win. If someone does something reprehensible I'll ***** about them letting us down, but if they play good clean hockey and have a real desire to win then I'll love them. Don't knock someone for their past indiscretions, everyone has them and no one wants to be defined by them.

Pierre has it on good authority that the Pens are front runners to sign every free agent available: Suter, Parise, Garrison all want to be in PIT SOOOO BAD. Pierre says so....... ....fool

Heard a rumour that Nucks and Jets are interested. But it was from a supposed insider who hasn't seemed to get anything right today. So don't necessarily trust it but still a rumour

Great point by edi, would PIT offer Parise more than Crosby? Wont be as big a cap hit I'm sure but more annual salary this year? Don't see it happening

Exactly. To put it in perspective, how much did we pay Draper to do the same thing? Although Draper had a lot more upside with regards to leadership, speed, intensity. Only downside was age. But yeah, he'd never have got $3m in the cap era. Bit much but that's the way these contracts are going these days. I imagine he'll get more minutes now, partly to justify the wage/they think he can get better. May backfire EDIT: Only saw the 'face-offs' bit, not the lack of defensive quality. Drapes was steller defensively which actually proves my point further. Just making sure no one thinks I was saying Drapes wasn't any good on D

That would be awesome. Best person to send really. Only problem is he technically doesn't work for the organisation so he probably can't be involved in influencing a decision one way or another. Heck if I saw him coming up my drive though as a FA, I'd sign the darn contract before he even made it to the door

Throw Dan Cleary in there as well. Dude plays on busted knees but seemingly doesn't want to cause a fuss so keeps playing through the pain every night and doesn't stop.

And the man was clutch for the Wings. Remember folks, there was a time when Flip was a pretty nifty 3rd line C... That being said I can't think who was on the second line during 08 and 09? Would imagine Z 09 since Hossa would be up on the 1st with Dats and Homer...? Not to mention look at the third line centre we could have had last year (2010-11) if it had gone more smoothly... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Modano would have loved him to have a strong full season

I honestly don't think people like Franzen and Ericsson are there to dominate. Yeah they don't use their size that much but seriously how often can you say they've been hit hard? If any of us played professional hockey I'd say 90% of us would probably not try to hit a guy like Chara (bit of an extreme example) as much as we would a guy like St. Louis (again extreme example) because 1) it wouldn't have that great an effect and 2) there would be more of a chance at us injuring/hurting ourselves by hitting someone that much bigger. If bigger players on the Wings don't generally hit that much or use their size as effectively as people would expect then maybe it's because they're told not to. Imagine if what I've outlined is actually true, after all it's just a theory I thought of when reading through the comments, and people didn't actively try to hit a big guy like Franzen as much, the space that he'd be left would be a lot greater than if he was hounded all the time. Perhaps he doesn't get involved in all the dirty areas because Babs knows just how good a shot he's got on him when he's got the space. If that's the case, make sure he had all the space available to him, even if it did mean making him look as though he's just skating around and avoiding people most nights. I don't think he's particularly lazy but maybe he's just trying to overthink things too much with what he's been told to do. After all this is a professional sports team, and they all play a game that their coach tells them to play. Yes some people like Dats have the personal creativity to pull off amazing moves and fool defenders but he's still playing the game that Babs tells him to. Perhaps when Franzen is considered "streaky" he's just relaxing a bit more and playing more naturally, then Babs asks him to remember the gameplan and his point productions drop. Obviously I can't claim to know just what's going on here, like the OP I'm just setting forth a possible scenario that I happened to think about whilst reading through. If an overall gameplan dictates that players are incouraged to play smarter hockey rather than physical or aggressive hockey (which traditionally - 20 years or so - has been the case somewhat) then players like Franzen are always going to get stick from the fans saying their lazy and they don't use their size. Nick could have probably hit a few years off some guys careers if he had tried, but he didn't because making the smart play was more important and more effective most of the time. Even Kronwall's hits, although fairly frequent, have been pretty sure things - guy skating out of his own zone along the boards, bam - I don't think I've ever seen him try something similar in his own zone because one move by the puck carrier and he's way out of position. In conclusion (I understand I've waffled on an AWFUL lot ) I think Franzen may just be the victim of a team-wide system rather than his own ego or desires. In other words I guess I'm outlining an argument to suggest that Franzen is actually giving a lot MORE to this team than is outwardly visible. Not that I'm actually arguing said argument

I agree The only other thing I'd say though, is that in Dallas Ott gets what, second line minutes? Gaustad doesn't as far as I know so points difference is going to happen. Interesting to see if Holland will take a run at him again considering it was mentioned he went after him at the deadline...

Sorry couldn't multiquote for some reason to include LeftWinger's initial quote as well... but this talk of "oh were strengthening from the inside" and all that, does it make anyone else think that Holland may spring some sort of surprise? Because as someone mentioned in another thread apparently we're $8million under the cap floor at the moment (don't know if this is true as didn't see the new CBA agreements, current players signed, etc) and he can't NOT sign people. I reckon Kenny has something planned that he's going to surprise us with a la Hossa a few seasons ago. I didn't even hear about that until I went on the Wings website and it had him on the intro page and I though "WTF?!"

That would be a playoff line! Imagine that to open first game of the playoffs at The Joe? Man that place would be rocking. They'd probably never go together again but just to set the tone!

Whilst Calgary is the sort of team I could see Doan heading to, it makes no sense as all rumours suggest they're trying to ship Iginla who's essentially the same player. Not to mention he's obviously sick of being close (reaching the playoffs) without any chance whatsoever of winning a cup. Calgary is a bust. Just my thoughts on that entirely biased and lazy tweet from a Calgary reporter. Perhaps with Staal leaving a hole in PIT he could head to the east for some more money but would he be willing to take 3rd line responsibilities? I for one, have no idea where he, or indeed anyone, is going this offseason. That being said, however, imagine for a moment if Ken Holland somehow managed what everyone in Detroit wants (Suter, Parise, Schultz), then takes on Doan as well? Highly unlikely but imagine?

Don't know if this has been posted yet, but apparently Garth Snow offered all of this years picks at the draft for 2nd overall from the Blue Jackets. http://prohockeytalk..._medium=twitter I seem to agree with most of the Twitterverse on this one. Snow is the second biggest idiot in hockey for offering this. Scott Howson is first for reportedly turning it down. Not to mention bad form for leaking it to the press but I guess he just couldn't believe it was really happening