Obstruction, Hooking, Slashing. Holding, Clutching, and Grabbing

[rick zombo 3,739]

"Not many Duck fans chiming in with responses. Wonder why?"

Probably because they chewed us up and spit us out, what more is there to talk to us about? I'm not monitoring Sharks boards today, are you? Look for Ducks fans today on Ducks or Senators boards, you'll find them.

If you view some of the current threads you will see a few Ducks fans still on these boards. They are good contributors, not trolls. But I think they understand what's going on in this series. Even Wings "fans" that are posting all the time and are highly critical of the Wings almost all the time have refrained from trying to justify Anaheim's play, or explaining it off as "I wish our team played this way."

It's just so painfully obvious. Especially in the face of the new NHL.

[AUWingsFan 0]

glad to know that I'm not the only one who thought some stuff was slipping through the cracks uncalled. I think it speaks volumes when someone who knows the game like Scotty Bowman points it out. It's disgusting that now some of the more skilled teams lose out to what is called grit and hard hitting, but it is also things like those in the thread title that aren't being called which are helping teams make things even (which i'm not saying Anaheim isn't talented....I'm just saying it's amazing what a lot of non-calls and a good goalie can do).

Oh well........hopefully the Senators will start doing the same and can get away with it so no one has an advantage in that department....but personally I think the Senators will end up getting it called on them........

[rick zombo 3,739]

I think that there are blatant things and then there are fine lines. I think there are things that are tolerated by one ref that aren't tolerated by another. And I think that they get together before the game and during the game to discuss it because I've seen it happen in lower level games and I'm sure it goes on in the NHL too.

In any sport, an athlete or team looks for an advantage that may cross into the fine line territory. What Getzlaf did to Comrie was blatant. The crosschecks that you are referring to IMO are probably being seen as "shoves" at this point in the season by some refs. If the Ducks are adjusting to what's being called and what isn't, then the opposing team has the same opportunity to do the same. Look how the Senators came out last night hitting the Ducks. Wasn't really their game, but they tried.

It's the same with an umpire in baseball; sometimes the strike zone is really big and sometimes it isn't. Each umpire has their zone that's acceptable and it may even change for a particular pitcher. So the hitter has to adjust as well even if it means hitting a ball that he normally wouldn't just so he doesn't get a called strike.

Kudos to all of you for being such hockey purists. Sorry if I'm too much of a homer to just be enjoying my team's winning. All I can say is that if the Ducks win the Cup, the next time the Wings win it after them, put a big sticker over their inscribed names so you all don't have to look at it and remember that they didn't deserve it.

Never once did I say the Ducks didn't "deserve" to win. Never once during the Detroit series did I say that the Ducks didn't "deserve" to win. They score clutch goals and have a supremely dominating forecheck. And Pahlsson is a terrific player.

But I'm not happy with Anaheim's style of play. It's not hockey. Thankfully, neither Edmonton nor the Flames won palying that way in the previous two finals

As for the big sticker? too drastic.

But I wouldn't mind putting a little asterisk beside the 95 Devils, the 2003 Devils, and the 2007 Ducks (if they win it).

Maybe you can put said sticker on your face to replace the "blinders"

[Aeothe Kaear 0]

How many times are their dmen allowed to crosscheck people into the ice and not get a call?

Well, they can't take that away... that's Pronger's whole game!

The constant interference on the forecheck is what's really taking the life out of the games.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Well, they can't take that away... that's Pronger's whole game!

The constant interference on the forecheck is what's really taking the life out of the games.

This is basically the only thing I can't overlook too. The chippy play is fine, but the interference, especially on the forecheck is not cool for hockey fans in general.

[Salviaman 104]

Bettman wants the Ducks to win the cup, he hopes that Disney can sell the NHL some of its magic if he lets them win it so the NHL can be as popular as the NFL.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Well, they can't take that away... that's Pronger's whole game!

The constant interference on the forecheck is what's really taking the life out of the games.

Same here. Good thread. Watching the Ducks is slowly killing my enjoyment of playoff hockey. Is it just me or is a HUGE chunk of Pronger's play interference? It seems like he could be called for it on every play he's out there.

[Guest ZDH]

Same here. Good thread. Watching the Ducks is slowly killing my enjoyment of playoff hockey. Is it just me or is a HUGE chunk of Pronger's play interference? It seems like he could be called for it on every play he's out there.

About 95% of Pronger's play is interference. Back when the Wings made him their yearly ***** in the playoffs en route to winning their 3 Cups, the Wings would always make the Blues pay on the PP. Something which this year's Wings and now Sens, are not doing.

Anaheim's PK is so good because they interfere at the blue line when you try to enter the zone. You dump the puck in and they interfere with you when trying to get the puck. There is no winning. LOL The only way you beat it is to score on the PP.

[Hank 0]

Well, they can't take that away... that's Pronger's whole game!

The constant interference on the forecheck is what's really taking the life out of the games.

I'll be the zillionth person to agree with this statement too. And it must be a popular opinion if people like Scotty Bowman, Brian Murray, Damion Cox, Phil Esposito and even Ron MacLean are bringing it up.

And regards to your argument hockeymom about how each team must adjust to the standard, while I agree with that, it still doesn't make the hockey any less pleasing to watch. That's my whole point. The NHL was horrible before the lockout. The brand of hockey we were forced to consume was beyond boring. And then they cleaned it up and it was great. But now it's obvious the NHL wants it to degrade back to where it was.

What makes me laugh is all the hypocrites on hockey boards such as HFBoards that whined and complained about the 'new' NHL and how they were shutting their TV's off because of it. Well now they have their precious crap-hockey back and where are they? The ratings have never been worse. I thought this was 'great, old-time hockey' like they preached and spewed so much before?

The Finals have been a major disapointment so far. If you had told me in January that Ottawa and Anaheim were going to play in the finals I would have been please as a hockey fan. Both teams have skill and can really skate. But the erosion of the NEW NHL rules and standards has suffocated all life and excitment out of it.

hockeymom's no different than Devils fans. When you win the Cup, it's like your children. You'll always think it's beautiful no matter how ugly it is. But fans that can take a step back and view it without homerific glasses see an ugly pig.

These finals are a disaster for the NHL and they only have themselves to blame.

[seeinred 1,488]

Well, they can't take that away... that's Pronger's whole game!

The constant interference on the forecheck is what's really taking the life out of the games.

x5, or whatever we're at now. Cross-checks piss me off when it's just a string of them to someone all in quick succesion, but I think that's definitely more enjoyable to watch as a hockey fan than the horses*** interference.

But just think about what it would be like if they called every penalty that actually happened in a game . The Ducks would have 2 guys in the box pretty much the whole game.

[ZAMBONI 0]

Bettman wants the Ducks to win the cup, he hopes that Disney can sell the NHL some of its magic if he lets them win it so the NHL can be as popular as the NFL.

Henry Samueli owns the Ducks.

About 95% of Pronger's play is interference. Back when the Wings made him their yearly ***** in the playoffs en route to winning their 3 Cups, the Wings would always make the Blues pay on the PP. Something which this year's Wings and now Sens, are not doing.

Anaheim's PK is so good because they interfere at the blue line when you try to enter the zone. You dump the puck in and they interfere with you when trying to get the puck. There is no winning. LOL The only way you beat it is to score on the PP.

You guys should rename this thread CRY ME A RIVER. The defenseman is allowed to extablish position. Watch Ottawa they do exactly the same thing on dumps and so do your choir boy red wings. Its called playoff hockey. 95 percent of Prongers play is interference? You guys are losing it.

[vangvace 12]

God I wasn't going to post... but then I saw this

I'll be the zillionth person to agree with this statement too. And it must be a popular opinion if people like Scotty Bowman, Brian Murray, Damion Cox, Phil Esposito and even Ron MacLean are bringing it up.

And regards to your argument hockeymom about how each team must adjust to the standard, while I agree with that, it still doesn't make the hockey any less pleasing to watch. That's my whole point. The NHL was horrible before the lockout. The brand of hockey we were forced to consume was beyond boring. And then they cleaned it up and it was great. But now it's obvious the NHL wants it to degrade back to where it was.

What makes me laugh is all the hypocrites on hockey boards such as HFBoards that whined and complained about the 'new' NHL and how they were shutting their TV's off because of it. Well now they have their precious crap-hockey back and where are they? The ratings have never been worse. I thought this was 'great, old-time hockey' like they preached and spewed so much before?

The Finals have been a major disapointment so far. If you had told me in January that Ottawa and Anaheim were going to play in the finals I would have been please as a hockey fan. Both teams have skill and can really skate. But the erosion of the NEW NHL rules and standards has suffocated all life and excitment out of it.

These finals are a disaster for the NHL and they only have themselves to blame.

Yeah us hypocrites complain about this "new NHL" because it sucks... and most fight fans are routing for the Ducks because they play the old game. NOT the post 90s lockout old game. NOT the soccer system on ice game. BUT the closest thing to old time hockey we have... and prob will see for quite some time. You can see it on every players face... passion, not this robotic videogame crap that the "new NHL" was supposed to be.

Speaking of hypocrites you had better add Brian Murray to the mix too. Don't believe me? Lookup the Wings teams he dressed while here. Now he's just a whiny little shell of a what he used to be.

Do you know what else is killing the NHL... rules changing every season to fix what was a good product. Hockey's history goes back almost as far as baseball yet they keep trying to "fix" something that wasn't broke to begin with and then fix what they just broke.

It's not mine but it really sums up how much things have changed since the ninety's lockout and was taken before the WCF... read it

Here's how I summed it up in another thread. While the Red Wings aren't wholly responsible for what the NHL has become - the level of success that they have had while playing weak, boring hockey has made them the poster-children for the "New NHL" -

I honestly feel like someone has taken a friend away from me. I've admittedly become bitter and angry at those who took my friend away from me. I'm also frustrated with those who still follow this current product which, in my opinion, is a shadow of it's former self.

Hockey was my hobby. It was my pastime. It was almost my identity.

All my girlfriends used to joke that it was all work, hockey or sex with me. All other conversations need to be had with someone else.

As I mentioned in another thread - it was never about the fighting, for me.

Hockey was the last great sport. The last sport that had not been corrupted by greed and selfishness. Players were smart and thoughtful and respectful of both each other and their fans.

Hockey was played by men. Tough men who would do whatever it took to win a game. It was played with passion and emotion and was, of course, violent. The fights were driven by that will to win at all costs. Fisticuffs were simply a byproduct of the intensity shown on the ice.

Then came the "systems" and the over-coaching. The league took a turn for the worse when the coaches started dictating everything that happened on the ice - rather than letting the play being reactionary. The players own will to succeed was being replaced by a schedule of where they needed to be and when.

The final nail in the coffin of the NHL was the induction of these new rules which have all but officially removed any chance of diversion from the standards and practices of the new NHL.

This playoff year has shown like no other that the parity that once existed in the NHL is gone. It is now impossible for a less-skilled but harder-working team to triumph over a talented but delicate unit. Power plays and penalty killing rule the day. Teams will now be built around these two factors alone. We're one step closer to a 60 minute shootout.

Like most things we all knew and loved as kids - the best memories will always remain for us - but we'll probably never have a chance to relive them.

-PR

oh and if we're going to add asterisks to cup champions you might as well add in Detroit's last three cups as well. One for buying the 2002 cup and the other two for playing the left wing lock system

x5, or whatever we're at now. Cross-checks piss me off when it's just a string of them to someone all in quick succesion, but I think that's definitely more enjoyable to watch as a hockey fan than the horses*** interference.

But just think about what it would be like if they called every penalty that actually happened in a game . The Ducks would have 2 guys in the box pretty much the whole game.

and so would the Wings, Oilers, Sens, Preds, rangers, devils...

three on three pond hockey! it'll be the new new new NHL

[seeinred 1,488]

Henry Samueli owns the Ducks.

You guys should rename this thread CRY ME A RIVER. The defenseman is allowed to extablish position. Watch Ottawa they do exactly the same thing on dumps and so do your choir boy red wings. Its called playoff hockey. 95 percent of Prongers play is interference? You guys are losing it.

You are allowed to establish position, yes. You are not allowed to cross-check people over and over until the fall down, and you are not allowed to "establish position" as you call it, on someone who doesn't have the puck. That's interference. Face the glaringly obvious: Chris Pronger is a hack. He's really good at being a hack, but he's a hack. If you watched last series, you would have seen how ridiculous Nick made your 2 golden boys on the blue line look. Not only did he outplay them both combined, he outclassed them a hundred times over.

oh and if we're going to add asterisks to cup champions you might as well add in Detroit's last three cups as well. One for buying the 2002 cup and the other two for playing the left wing lock system

and so would the Wings, Oilers, Sens, Preds, rangers, devils...

three on three pond hockey! it'll be the new new new NHL

Ok well we've been through the whole buying the cup thing a million times over. It's not a valid argument. I won't disagree about the left wing lock, but it was nothing like the interference we have going on in the game today.

And as for the pond hockey comment, well I was gonna say 3-on-3 games, but I was trying to make a point about the Ducks

[drwscc 212]

I thought that was the purpose of having rules and calling penalties when the rules are broken? How many games, or periods even, would a team have where they spend the entire period in the penalty box.

Having it set to where the refs think "Oh well, the Ducks already had 8 penalties in the game, we'll let that crosschecking and interference go" only creates a situation where a team recognizes that fact, and takes way more liberties (not flagrant mind you, the refs have no choice on those) than they would if they knew that interfering with someone who just dumped the puck in will be called every time.

If the new NHL is all about the rules and enforcing them, enforce them. Call 30 penalties on the Ducks in the 1st if that's what's warranted. I guarantee that they'd come out in the 2nd much more well behaved.

[Hank 0]

God I wasn't going to post... but then I saw this

Yeah us hypocrites complain about this "new NHL" because it sucks... and most fight fans are routing for the Ducks because they play the old game. NOT the post 90s lockout old game. NOT the soccer system on ice game. BUT the closest thing to old time hockey we have... and prob will see for quite some time. You can see it on every players face... passion, not this robotic videogame crap that the "new NHL" was supposed to be.

Show me one playoff game from last year to this year that didn't have passion. They've all been spilling over with it.

You want to talk about OLD time hockey, then what era are you referring to? Because if you mean the 80's and early 90's there was a tonne of scoring, no hooking and holding and no defensive zone traps.

The 'new' NHL is closer to what oldtime hockey used to be. Think I'm full of it? Then what about players like the great Jean Beleveau? He said that hockey in 05-06 was the closest he's seen since his heyday. I've heard other players like Joe Sakic praise it as well.

Sure, there's less fights but that's got a lot more to do with the systems put in place and the influx of Europeans. There's no room for goons that can't do anything out there.

I like a tilt as much as the next guy but if fighting served any purpose above and beyond entertainment you would see a LOT more of it in the playoffs where the games are 10000x more important. If fighting really did translate into wins then the deadline would be ripe with deals for goons.

And don't spout off about 'tradition'. If everyone wanted to stick to tradition then hockey should be played 6-on-6, where goalies can't go down to block shots, no bluelines and no forward passing. Because that's what NHL hockey was in the beginning.

And baseball has changed considerably. Designated hitters, shorter mound, tighter ball, large bullpens. Heck, at one time if the ball bounced over the wall it was called a homerun.

Times have changed and sports need to as well. People forget that sports are entertainment. And last nights game was anything but.

I wouldn't pay to watch Lebron James or Michael Jordan get mugged up and down the floor all night resulting in a 24-22 game. So why should hockey fans have to watch their stars suffer through the same things?

Edited May 31, 2007 by Hank

[rick zombo 3,739]

Show me one playoff game from last year to this year that didn't have passion. They've all been spilling over with it.

You want to talk about OLD time hockey, then what era are you referring to? Because if you mean the 80's and early 90's there was a tonne of scoring, no hooking and holding and no defensive zone traps.

The 'new' NHL is closer to what oldtime hockey used to be. Think I'm full of it? Then what about players like the great Jean Beleveau? He said that hockey in 05-06 was the closest he's seen since his heyday. I've heard other players like Joe Sakic praise it as well.

Sure, there's less fights but that's got a lot more to do with the systems put in place and the influx of Europeans. There's no room for goons that can't do anything out there.

I like a tilt as much as the next guy but if fighting served any purpose above and beyond entertainment you would see a LOT more of it in the playoffs where the games are 10000x more important. If fighting really did translate into wins then the deadline would be ripe with deals for goons.

And don't spout off about 'tradition'. If everyone wanted to stick to tradition then hockey should be played 6-on-6, where goalies can't go down to block shots, no bluelines and no forward passing. Because that's what NHL hockey was in the beginning.

And baseball has changed considerably. Designated hitters, shorter mound, tighter ball, large bullpens. Heck, at one time if the ball bounced over the wall it was called a homerun.

Times have changed and sports need to as well. People forget that sports are entertainment. And last nights game was anything but.

I wouldn't pay to watch Lebron James or Michael Jordan get mugged up and down the floor all night resulting in a 24-22 game. So why should hockey fans have to watch their stars suffer through the same things?

Well put Hank. Though you're logic has been wasted on a few narrow minds, it's not fallen entirely on deaf ears.

Do you know what else is killing the NHL... rules changing every season to fix what was a good product. Hockey's history goes back almost as far as baseball yet they keep trying to "fix" something that wasn't broke to begin with and then fix what they just broke.

It's not mine but it really sums up how much things have changed since the ninety's lockout and was taken before the

Actually, the new rules have been effective for creating a more wide-open, and more exciting game. We're talking about how these new rules, which had been meticulously established and well implemented over the course of the last two seasons have all of a sudden dissapeared in the first two games of this years finals.

The hitting and intesity that Anaheim brings is great. The first period of last night's game was hard to top form a physical standpoint.

But interference and obstruction are totally different beasts. It's sooooooooooo obvious it hurts to even write this.

oh and if we're going to add asterisks to cup champions you might as well add in Detroit's last three cups as well. One for buying the 2002 cup and the other two for playing the left wing lock system

The last time I saw a stretch like this, I was looking at a picture of Brittany Spears trying to climb out of a limo.

[Elshupacabra 0]

I don't think that the NHL should try to *fix* the way the penalties are called anymore, becasue it didn't work very well the first time IMO I remember back in the day, when your team got a 5 on 3 they were rare so you knew that your team would almost always score on them because it was such a great chance, Now they happen once or twice a game, thats just not right.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Elshupacabra

[seeinred 1,488]

The last time I saw a stretch like this, I was looking at a picture of Brittany Spears trying to climb out of a limo.

I lol'd, but I also puked a little.

[hockeymom95 0]

[quote name='rick zombo' date='May 31, 2007 - 10:41AM' post='1090998'

But I wouldn't mind putting a little asterisk beside the 95 Devils, the 2003 Devils, and the 2007 Ducks (if they win it).

Maybe you can put said sticker on your face to replace the "blinders"

See that's what I keep getting when I read this board...the only teams that should win the Cup should be the Red Wings or whoever Red Wing Nation deems worthy of winning the Cup each year. Not who wins the Cup; but who Red Wing Nation feels should win the Cup. Tampa Bay wasn't worthy, Carolina wasn't worthy, and the aforementioned teams aren't worthy either and the Ducks won't be if we win.

If the Red Wings don't win in a particular year or the team that does win doesn't win isn't acceptable to Red Wing Nation, then it was just a worthless year in the NHL.

No offense, but maybe the NHL just doesn't care about what the "old guard" thinks anymore. Maybe Scotty Bowman is yesterday's news and only important to the Red Wings and not the entire hockey world anymore. He's had his day in the sun and maybe now it's Brian Burke and Kevin Lowe and the younger guys in the hockey world that the NHL care more about pleasing. It happens in the cold corporate world all the time and it can happen in hockey too.

I guess I'm just not that wrapped up in myself to really think that the NHL or the players really care about me, the fan. Yeah, they say they do, but if they did, there wouldn't have been a lockout. It's a business and we're just along for the ride and to feed their pockets.

I love hockey and believe me I pay dearly in So Cal to perpetuate the youth hockey movement, but never will I believe that in the great scheme of things I really matter to the NHL.

[Roberto Who? 0]

GO DUCKS GO

2 AWAY....GO CHEAT YOUR WAY TO THE CUP...did i sound like a red wing fan there? cuz i was tryin to be...

[Kp-Wings 3]

If obstruction was taken out of the league, then Chris Pronger wouldn't have a job anymore. And the NHL couldn't afford to lose a poster boy, media ***** like Pronger.

[Bryguy 103]

I hope pronger drops the cup

[Guest ZDH]

If obstruction was taken out of the league, then Chris Pronger wouldn't have a job anymore. And the NHL couldn't afford to lose a poster boy, media ***** like Pronger.

Remember that old show Teddy Ruxpin? I always thought Pronger looks like the character Grubby. I think its the gap tooth. I know it will be painful to see that Grubby Pronger lift the Cup. Maybe being 6'6 will allow him to smash it against the dressing room ceiling and put a dent in it.

[Aeothe Kaear 0]

I hope pronger drops the cup

In a perfect world, it would burn his hands when he tried to touch it.

[seeinred 1,488]

GO DUCKS GO

2 AWAY....GO CHEAT YOUR WAY TO THE CUP...did i sound like a red wing fan there? cuz i was tryin to be...

They do cheat, that's a fact. Very few people, however, are saying that their cheating ways are the only thing that's gotten them to where they are right now. We give credit where credit is due.

Now quit trolling, you're terrible at it.