Stars sign Brad Winchester

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Adding someone who is a pylon and takes the place of a scorer will hurt, yes. There's a reason we didn't use Bootland last year.

Are you saying Winchester and Asham are pylons? Winchester isnt a big scorer , but he is BIG. Asham got 11 goals playing on NYI's 4th line , He'd have at least 15 if he was playing with say Hudler.

[NEEDMOREGRIT 12]

Im with ya on this Lou.Winchester for for that money was a steal.Would have been a great addition.Its a shame Kenny probably has his sites on another Greg Johnson type though.

BTW I love how all these whiney soccer mom types come out whenever anyone mentions we should bring some toughness back to this orginization.Looks like Holland has brainwashed quite a few now.Or maybe they got beat up alot in school and dont want to be reminded of it

[Guest DetroitIan]

Adding someone who is a pylon and takes the place of a scorer will hurt, yes. There's a reason we didn't use Bootland last year.

That 'guarantee,' besides being worth nothing, is also utterly unfounded. If it were true, we'd see no cheapshots anywhere, ever. Cheapshotters will cheapshot, period. Having an enforcer might make a bit of a difference, but not a huge one.

If he's a pylon and terrible defensively, he's a liability.

Im not saying it will stop All cheapshots and dirty play. Im saying it would stop the EXTRA bulls*** that the Wings have to endure. Because its obviously widely known that our team has absolutely no one that comes close to protecting our superstars. Of course every superstar gets cheapshots. And theres nothing that can be done about that. But like I said, I guaruntee if we had a banger, teams will think twice before giving that EXTRA shot to the back of Datsyuk's head. It's almost like the Red Wings sometimes get bullied, because there are no reprocutions for those player's actions.

Edited July 6, 2007 by DetroitIan

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Question - Why didn't Edmonton sign him? Not like their roster has players all better than him.

The reason you probably didn't know that he was a Free Agent is probably because 4th liners don't make a lot of headlines.

Edmonton didnt sign him BECAUSE HE SUCKS. Look people, Holland is not going to go out an sign anyone just because they are big. Winchester was invisible here last year. Holland obviously took the hint, if he isnt good enough to crack the Oilers line up this year, he is not going to benefit the Wings. The only thing he would do is take playing time away from better, more skilled players.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Edmonton didnt sign him BECAUSE HE SUCKS. Look people, Holland is not going to go out an sign anyone just because they are big. Winchester was invisible here last year. Holland obviously took the hint, if he isnt good enough to crack the Oilers line up this year, he is not going to benefit the Wings. The only thing he would do is take playing time away from better, more skilled players.

Like who...Tomas Kopecky?

Just because Edmonton got rid of him doesnt mean somebody else cant turn him into something. The point is, we're talking a bottom barrell pricetag for a physical guy you can take a chance with. Worst case scenario, he's certainly better than having a Langfeld as your 13th forward.

[Kp-Wings 3]

******* bulls***.

Way to drop the ball again Holland. You're a God damn joke. If you think Tomas Kopecky is a better player, you need to be shot in the ass. Ugh, this angers me on so many levels.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

its alright guys chris simon will come to detroit lol

[Yzerfan1999 81]

This is getting out of hand. People are getting on Holland for missing the signings on no name big guys.

Listen to me. I saw Winchester play 50+ games last year. Sure he dropped the gloves from time to time, but other then that, he was completely useless.

People go from bitching Holland out for not signing a scoring 2nd liner - to hating him for passing up the opportunity to sign a career 13th forward. SETTLE DOWN. There are a dozen Brad Winchesters out there - are you really hating Holland for passing on a guy who has 10 points in 80 NHL games? Why would Holland take the added salary to add ANOTHER 13th forward to the roster.

Just cause Holland didn't sign Brad f*cking Winchester doesn't mean he has failed us all.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Just cause Holland didn't sign Brad f*cking Winchester doesn't mean he has failed us all.

The fact that he thinks a useless scrub like Kopecky is a better player and a better fit for this team means he has failed.

Oh wait, I couldn't have expected anything else from Holland. Winchester is gritty and Kopecky isn't. That makes Kopecky a perfect fit here! /sarcasm

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

The fact that he thinks a useless scrub like Kopecky is a better player and a better fit for this team means he has failed.

Oh wait, I couldn't have expected anything else from Holland. Winchester is gritty and Kopecky isn't. That makes Kopecky a perfect fit here! /sarcasm

lmao we got robbed of a cup last year cause of some bad luck and injuries and won 3 cups in the last 10 seasons but you know better then holland lmao

winchester is big but he only played in like 50 games and considering the fact that edmonton has been having a hard time getting players to go there if winchester was that good they would of kept him

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Cant believe people are so hung up on s*** like this. The ONLY way I want another 3rd/4th line guy is if we're getting rid of some of the useless ones we already have (see: Samuelsson) This is no longer a question of whether or not we need a guy like this, but whether or not we have the space. Its like people on here want to add every 8 goal scorer on the market. Enough is enough. We have one spot left, maybe two, and those should both go to guys who are going to score us some goals. If we have to wait til February to get them, so be it.

[Heaton 1]

Cant believe people are so hung up on s*** like this. The ONLY way I want another 3rd/4th line guy is if we're getting rid of some of the useless ones we already have (see: Samuelsson) This is no longer a question of whether or not we need a guy like this, but whether or not we have the space. Its like people on here want to add every 8 goal scorer on the market. Enough is enough. We have one spot left, maybe two, and those should both go to guys who are going to score us some goals. If we have to wait til February to get them, so be it.

At this point with what our team is, it'd be foolish to get rid of a 20 goal scorer who makes 1.2m unless we're getting another offensive player back.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Cant believe people are so hung up on s*** like this. The ONLY way I want another 3rd/4th line guy is if we're getting rid of some of the useless ones we already have (see: Samuelsson) This is no longer a question of whether or not we need a guy like this, but whether or not we have the space. Its like people on here want to add every 8 goal scorer on the market. Enough is enough. We have one spot left, maybe two, and those should both go to guys who are going to score us some goals. If we have to wait til February to get them, so be it.

And what? Let the Wings be pushed around again next season like they did last year?

I remember you said it yourself: Far too many teams take liberties against the Wings. I'm not saying Arron Asham and Brad Winchester will stop that from happening, since they won't. But at least if they were signed, the Wings would have someone who is going to drop the gloves if these guys do something stupid.

Perfect example: Ryan Johnson on St. Louis running Hasek last year. It was at that moment, when the Wings did basically nothing about it, that I concluded that this team was probably full of the biggest ******* I've ever seen in my life. Not a single person went up to Johnson. It was ridiculous.

I'm not saying Asham and Winchester will stop this from happening, since they won't. But if they, or someone else who isn't afraid to drop the gloves, were on this team Ryan Johnson would have gotten what was coming to him. Because they weren't though, nothing was ever done about it. Pathetic.

[Heaton 1]

Perfect example: Ryan Johnson on St. Louis running Hasek last year. It was at that moment, when the Wings did basically nothing about it, that I concluded that this team was probably full of the biggest ******* I've ever seen in my life.

And what happened afterward because of it? And what happened after McLennan hit Franzen?

Seriously, who cares? What do you think fighting the guy who does the dirty deed is really going to accomplish? More team unity? This teams seems pretty cohesive as is, I doubt "sticking up" for Hasek by fighting some St. Louis no name player is going to do much for team morale that winning games wouldn't.

You really think the Wings are "*******"? Go to training camp and tell them how you feel, seriously, do it. See what they have to say. Or better yet, call Holland directly like that guy did when we got Bertuzzi.

I just think it's funny how you sit up there on your high horse and not realize that literally every team last season has had more than few incidents where injustices happened and they did nothing about it.

Kiprusoff was getting run left and right last year early on and the fans were incensed.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Heaton

[Kp-Wings 3]

And what happened afterward because of it? And what happened after McLennan hit Franzen?

Seriously, who cares? What do you think fighting the guy who does the dirty deed is really going to accomplish? More team unity? This teams seems pretty cohesive as is, I doubt "sticking up" for Hasek by fighting some St. Louis no name player is going to do much for team morale that winning games wouldn't.

You really think the Wings are "*******"? Go to training camp and tell them how you feel, seriously, do it. See what they have to say. Or better yet, call Holland directly like that guy did when we got Bertuzzi.

I just think it's funny how you sit up there on your high horse and not realize that literally every team last season has had more than few incidents where injustices happened and they did nothing about it.

Kiprusoff was getting run left and right last year early on and the fans were incensed.

Oh, and how do you think Hasek felt about all that? Sure, he didn't say anything, but I'm sure he wasn't happy about being ran at and not having anyone on the team do a single thing about it.

But whatever. You seem to think this team is perfectly fine, as is.

[Heaton 1]

Oh, and how do you think Hasek felt about all that? Sure, he didn't say anything, but I'm sure he wasn't happy about being ran at and not having anyone on the team do a single thing about it.

But whatever. You seem to think this team is perfectly fine, as is.

Did it affect Hasek? I don't care what Hasek "thinks" as long as he stops the puck and wins games. I never said this team is perfectly fine, I just don't think it's such a disaster like you do.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Last season was a good example. The Wings didnt NEED 'big' guys like Winchester. They had an amazing regular season and were beaten by, yes, a big Ducks team, but a GOOD big Ducks team. The Ducks won the cup cause they had a team with guys like Getzlaf, Penner and Pronger, who have skill to match there toughness - They didnt win cause of guys like Brad Winchester, who get in the odd scrap and score fewer then a hand full of goals a year. In fact, Parros, the Ducks 'enforcer' didnt even play in the playoffs.

If the Wings are going to add toughness, Holland is going to be smart about it.

And to answer your question Kp-Wings, Kopecky is already a Wing with a contract and an effect on the payroll- In fact he makes 475 000 in 07/08, the same amount as Winchester will now make in Dallas. You are right, he is useless -but unless he is traded, he takes up cap space. Maybe you think Winchester is an improvement...but in reality he is only a slight one. Why would Holland go after a player who wont REALLY help the team AND add more figures to the cap limit? He will take his chances with Kopecky who at least showed he can score in WHL and the AHL. Winchester never even put up a point per game in his minor career.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

In fact, Parros, the Ducks 'enforcer' didnt even play in the playoffs.

True. However Shawn Thornton was dressed in almost all the games during the playoffs and all he can do is fight. The Senators also had Chris Neil , who can play and is a great scrapper. Im not saying you need one , by the facts say otherwise

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Last season was a good example. The Wings didnt NEED 'big' guys like Winchester. They had an amazing regular season and were beaten by, yes, a big Ducks team, but a GOOD big Ducks team. The Ducks won the cup cause they had a team with guys like Getzlaf, Penner and Pronger, who have skill to match there toughness - They didnt win cause of guys like Brad Winchester, who get in the odd scrap and score fewer then a hand full of goals a year. In fact, Parros, the Ducks 'enforcer' didnt even play in the playoffs.

If the Wings are going to add toughness, Holland is going to be smart about it.

They also won because of Travis Moen, who i keep going back to alot, but this is the kinda guy i really covet. He wasnt much when the Ducks got him, and they totally turned him into a very valuable player. He's now 10x the player he was in Chicago. So naturally, I look at a guy like Winchester, and see a guy that does possess ability and that maybe we can turn into something good. And for such a small price? Thats what gets to me. Even if skill wise it didnt pan out, he'd still finally be someone big and physical on the 4th line at the very least.

As for Parros, he wouldve seen alot more time if not for Thornton.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

And what? Let the Wings be pushed around again next season like they did last year?

I remember you said it yourself: Far too many teams take liberties against the Wings. I'm not saying Arron Asham and Brad Winchester will stop that from happening, since they won't. But at least if they were signed, the Wings would have someone who is going to drop the gloves if these guys do something stupid.

Perfect example: Ryan Johnson on St. Louis running Hasek last year. It was at that moment, when the Wings did basically nothing about it, that I concluded that this team was probably full of the biggest ******* I've ever seen in my life. Not a single person went up to Johnson. It was ridiculous.

I'm not saying Asham and Winchester will stop this from happening, since they won't. But if they, or someone else who isn't afraid to drop the gloves, were on this team Ryan Johnson would have gotten what was coming to him. Because they weren't though, nothing was ever done about it. Pathetic.

After the playoffs last year, I know this: EVERY player in hockey CAN be tough. They CAN fight like dogs. They CAN hit hard. They CAN drive to the net. But its a question of whether or not they are pushed to do it, motivated to do it. Personally, I think toughness has a lot more to do with a players coach and a players character more than ever before. I saw guys from Datsyuk to Markov to Zetterberg to Cleary playing hard, playing tough, hitting, and driving to the net to the point where even Don Cherry gave props to Datsyuk "throwing his weight around." I am comforted more about the fact that I can look at the forward roster and not see one guy on that list that has attitude problems or poor character or isnt hungry. Im also comforted about the fact that Babcock doesnt stand for that s*** either.

Now, does that mean that Im satisfied with the roster? Of course not. But with whats available on the market right now, Id rather see Holland wait around to address the issues with someone that is actually worth roster spot. I would rather see Detroit keep its money AND its roster spaces for trades. Would I like to see Asham here? Hell yes. Ive always been a fan of his, but hes no help if theres nobody being subtracted from the team to the point where we have 13 forwards and only 3 top sixers. On top of that, its not like Detroit has to worry about a tough division or a tough conference to the point where they might not make the playoffs because of competition. At this point, if theres one thing that is keeping this team from being a CUP favorite, its scoring touch, not toughness.

True. However Shawn Thornton was dressed in almost all the games during the playoffs and all he can do is fight. The Senators also had Chris Neil , who can play and is a great scrapper. Im not saying you need one , by the facts say otherwise

Shawn Thornton was useless. Chris Neil is the opposite end of the spectrum. Anybody would be insane not to want Chris Neil on their team, and thats exactly why Ottawa will do everything to kep him. There are very few Chris Neils in this league. Brad Winchester is not Chris Neil.

Edited July 7, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Lou_Siffer 1]

After the playoffs last year, I know this: EVERY player in hockey CAN be tough. They CAN fight like dogs. They CAN hit hard. They CAN drive to the net. But its a question of whether or not they are pushed to do it, motivated to do it. Personally, I think toughness has a lot more to do with a players coach and a players character more than ever before. I saw guys from Datsyuk to Markov to Zetterberg to Cleary playing hard, playing tough, hitting, and driving to the net to the point where even Don Cherry gave props to Datsyuk "throwing his weight around." I am comforted more about the fact that I can look at the forward roster and not see one guy on that list that has attitude problems or poor character or isnt hungry. Im also comforted about the fact that Babcock doesnt stand for that s*** either.

Now, does that mean that Im satisfied with the roster? Of course not. But with whats available on the market right now, Id rather see Holland wait around to address the issues with someone that is actually worth roster spot. I would rather see Detroit keep its money AND its roster spaces for trades. Would I like to see Asham here? Hell yes. Ive always been a fan of his, but hes no help if theres nobody being subtracted from the team to the point where we have 13 forwards and only 3 top sixers. On top of that, its not like Detroit has to worry about a tough division or a tough conference to the point where they might not make the playoffs because of competition. At this point, if theres one thing that is keeping this team from being a CUP favorite, its scoring touch, not toughness.

Shawn Thornton was useless. Chris Neil is the opposite end of the spectrum. Anybody would be insane not to want Chris Neil on their team, and thats exactly why Ottawa will do everything to kep him. There are very few Chris Neils in this league. Brad Winchester is not Chris Neil.

This is exactly my point. We're NEVER going to get anybody like this unless we take chances with a guy like Winchester. Guys like Neil simply wont be let go by their team, because they know how valuable they are. So you either have to draft them, which wont happen with us, or take guys like Brad who show flashes and see if you can develop them to that level. If you never try with anybody...then we'll constantly be left saying "i wish we had Neil", "i wish we had Moen", "i wish we had Mayers", etc.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

This is exactly my point. We're NEVER going to get anybody like this unless we take chances with a guy like Winchester. Guys like Neil simply wont be let go by their team, because they know how valuable they are. So you either have to draft them, which wont happen with us, or take guys like Brad who show flashes and see if you can develop them to that level. If you never try with anybody...then we'll constantly be left saying "i wish we had Neil", "i wish we had Moen", "i wish we had Mayers", etc.

I see what youre saying. But I dont think Detroit is in a position right now to hold open a roster spot to see if a guy is going to be the next Chris Neil. They need to keep open their roster spots to see if a player will become the next Henrik Zetterberg or relative goal scorer. At this point, they need goal scoring more than they need toughness. Of course they need toughness, but Detroit only has 3 guys who can score on this team now. Thats why I dont see why everyone is so hopped up about why Holland has passed on a guy like Brad Winchester. If Holland was passing on a trade that saw Sammy going for Mayers, Hagman, etc, then Id be pissed.

I guess what I mean to say is that Id like to see more grit on this team, except at the expense of guys like Sammy, Hudler, and Maltby, not at the expense of getting a player who can score some goals.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

True. However Shawn Thornton was dressed in almost all the games during the playoffs and all he can do is fight. The Senators also had Chris Neil , who can play and is a great scrapper. Im not saying you need one , by the facts say otherwise

.....but...are you comparing Winchester to Chris Neil? The sad thing is Chris Neil had 30 pts, and Winchester isnt even HALF the player Neil is. These are two completely different players! Neil is a pest - he gets under the other teams skin. Winchester doesn't do any of that. He doesn't chirp, cheat shot, or go after other teams tough guys. Neil is a valuable player on many levels. Winchester is not even in the same league.

P.S Shawn Thornton didnt even register a point in the playoffs and averaged around 3 minutes of ice time a night. These type of guys get NO ice time in the playoffs.

Look, like i said before - Kopecky is signed, and Holland is going to take his chances with him. He has proven himself in the CHL, AHL as a goal scorer, and now he may get some more time in the NHL. Don't get me wrong - Im not a big fan of his either, I'm just saying why would Holland spend MORE money on another 13th forward rather then trying to sign a bigger name, or work out a trade at the deadline. It just doesn't make any sense from a financial stand point.

Why don't you guys ***** out Holland for not signing Chris Simon or Matthew Barnaby. Those are Chris Neil type players who get under opponents skin, and at least they score the odd goal...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Why don't you guys ***** out Holland for not signing Chris Simon or Matthew Barnaby. Those are Chris Neil type players who get under opponents skin, and at least they score the odd goal...

I wouldnt mind Simon. Barnaby's junk now , he cant fight , he cant hit and hes barely a 4th liner. Thing about Simon is he wont be playing till December/January.

[vangvace 12]

In fact, Parros, the Ducks 'enforcer' didnt even play in the playoffs.

Not true he played in their first 5 playoff games and was approved to have his name on the cup.

The Ducks went 24-9-4 last year when Parros dressed.