The votes are in: Bonds 756th ball to have asterisk

[Guest DetroitIan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3036756

[betterREDthandead 58]

The HoF will probably just find a way to display the ball so the asterisk doesn't show.

[Guest jaytan]

This Bonds-bashing stuff is so stupid. I give him the credit he deserves for breaking a record that nobody else could break, on or off the juice. And you can't asterisk something that hasn't been proven! Sure, there's a 99 per cent chance the guy was on 'roids, but that doesn't matter if he never got caught.

The fact that he's a prick only adds to the hate he gets, but it doesn't change the fact that he was a great baseball player throughout his career and did in fact set the record.

I hope it turns out his increase in size came from the weight room and Big Macs and his monstrous melon resulted from a glandular disorder and he dies before 50 from his head exploding or his heart failing to be able to pump blood through his clogged arteries and oversized muscles.

Then everyone would feel guilty.

[Guest DetroitIan]

This Bonds-bashing stuff is so stupid. I give him the credit he deserves for breaking a record that nobody else could break, on or off the juice. And you can't asterisk something that hasn't been proven! Sure, there's a 99 per cent chance the guy was on 'roids, but that doesn't matter if he never got caught.

The fact that he's a prick only adds to the hate he gets, but it doesn't change the fact that he was a great baseball player throughout his career and did in fact set the record.

I hope it turns out his increase in size came from the weight room and Big Macs and his monstrous melon resulted from a glandular disorder and he dies before 50 from his head exploding or his heart failing to be able to pump blood through his clogged arteries and oversized muscles.

Then everyone would feel guilty.

I dont necassarily disagree with you here. It's just a little messed up, that 15 years into his career, Bonds all of the sudden gets twice the size and hits 73 homeruns. Then goes on to become the all-time homerun king. They did a split screen with Barry Bonds, and on the left, was a 1990 Barry Bonds(Curtis Granderson size Bonds)and on the right, a current picture of Bonds, and it was almost laughable on the insane difference. So all I can say, is Hank Aaron hit 755 homeruns on blood, sweat and tears. Barry Bonds hit 756+ on illegal steroids. In my eyes, Hank Aaron will always be the true homerun king. And I think most Americans feel the same way. Hense all the asterisk talk.

[Guest jaytan]

Prince Fielder will eventually pass 'em both, on triple cheeseburgers alone.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Prince Fielder will eventually pass 'em both, on triple cheeseburgers alone.

Edited September 26, 2007 by DetroitIan

[Hiei 192]

Don't forget A-Rod, he'll pass em on a salad made of 100 dollar bills.

[Guest jaytan]

A-Rod doesn't have any motivation. Unless he can be like, "My dad never gave me $100 billion! That bastard! I'll show him!"

[eva unit zero 271]

I dont necassarily disagree with you here. It's just a little messed up, that 15 years into his career, Bonds all of the sudden gets twice the size and hits 73 homeruns. Then goes on to become the all-time homerun king. They did a split screen with Barry Bonds, and on the left, was a 1990 Barry Bonds(Curtis Granderson size Bonds)and on the right, a current picture of Bonds, and it was almost laughable on the insane difference. So all I can say, is Hank Aaron hit 755 homeruns on blood, sweat and tears. Barry Bonds hit 756+ on illegal steroids. In my eyes, Hank Aaron will always be the true homerun king. And I think most Americans feel the same way. Hense all the asterisk talk.

I think it's disgusting the way Bonds has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, when he has never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, and the drugs he is alleged to have used WERE NOT BANNED when he is supposed to have taken them. Irrespective of whether he took steroids or not, Bonds did nothing outside of the rules. The fact that it has never been proven despite several investigations with him as the primary target makes proving it seem like an unlikely scenario.

Which brings me to an interesting analogy. Say there was an oil panting contest, where people would judge what they felt to be the best oil painting ever laid to canvas. Say there is a frontrunner, a 200 year old painting. We'll call it 'Man on Rocks' for lack of a better title. Now say that 'Man on Rocks' is defeated by something that was just finished this week, titled 'Rocks on Man', but there are allegations that the painter of 'Rocks on Man' used acrylics as a base underneath some parts of his painting. He is vilified for this in the press for ruining the sanctity of the contest, but there is no evidence he used acrylics there or anywhere else in any of his works. Some opinionated blowhard with more money than he knows what to do with buys the painting and paints a big red asterisk on it, defacing what was agreed upon as the best oil painting ever simply because of something that was alleged and believed never proven.

Personally, I feel this way on the issue; If Bonds is proven to have intentionally used steroids, then his statistics from any year in which he is known to have done so should not count towards the record book. If he obtained the record without steroids, the ball should not be defaced. If he did not, the ball is meaningless.

[timothy1997 0]

I think it's disgusting the way Bonds has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, when he has never tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, and the drugs he is alleged to have used WERE NOT BANNED when he is supposed to have taken them. Irrespective of whether he took steroids or not, Bonds did nothing outside of the rules. The fact that it has never been proven despite several investigations with him as the primary target makes proving it seem like an unlikely scenario.

Which brings me to an interesting analogy. Say there was an oil panting contest, where people would judge what they felt to be the best oil painting ever laid to canvas. Say there is a frontrunner, a 200 year old painting. We'll call it 'Man on Rocks' for lack of a better title. Now say that 'Man on Rocks' is defeated by something that was just finished this week, titled 'Rocks on Man', but there are allegations that the painter of 'Rocks on Man' used acrylics as a base underneath some parts of his painting. He is vilified for this in the press for ruining the sanctity of the contest, but there is no evidence he used acrylics there or anywhere else in any of his works. Some opinionated blowhard with more money than he knows what to do with buys the painting and paints a big red asterisk on it, defacing what was agreed upon as the best oil painting ever simply because of something that was alleged and believed never proven.

Personally, I feel this way on the issue; If Bonds is proven to have intentionally used steroids, then his statistics from any year in which he is known to have done so should not count towards the record book. If he obtained the record without steroids, the ball should not be defaced. If he did not, the ball is meaningless.

Its just a baseball. Bonds is assumed guilty in the court of public opinion and there is nothing he can do to change that. Sure the ball is being defaced but his record probably won't. Sports fans hold records very closely when it comes to baseball, far much more than hockey or football records. That being said, that is why people are so upset over this issue.

[eva unit zero 271]

Its just a baseball. Bonds is assumed guilty in the court of public opinion and there is nothing he can do to change that. Sure the ball is being defaced but his record probably won't. Sports fans hold records very closely when it comes to baseball, far much more than hockey or football records. That being said, that is why people are so upset over this issue.

Let me rephrase; marking this ball with an asterisk is no different than marking the record books with an asterisk for Roger Maris' home run record. It's based on an 'assumed' advantage that the player in question had. There is zero evidence of Bonds using steroids. He is assumed guilty because he hit so many home runs and wo na bunch of MVPs? Guess what; Bonds was already one of the league's top sluggers in Pittsburgh. He also held the record for the most MVP awards BEFORE he is alleged to have used any sort of steroids. Bonds was ALREADY one of the greatest ballplayers ever seen BEFORE he is alleged to have used steroids. Outside of Bonds' remarkable 73 HR season, he has never cleared 50 before or after that season. He hit an average of 46 homer runs per 162 games in the five seasons preciding breaking the single season record. In the five seasons immediately following the 73 HR season, he hit an average of 48 HR per 162 games. In other words, Bonds' 73 HR season was a fluke, an anamoly, an aberration. But the fact remains that not including the 73 HR season, Bonds' career average is 40 HR per 162 games. 48 per season for a 5 year average is not an unreasonable number for a guy whose career average is 40, don't you think? It's like suggesting that Bobby Hull cheated when he scored 77 in 74-75 for the Jets, then a major pro record, compared to the consistent 44-54 goals he scored 8 times in 11 seasons from 65-66 to 74-75. Should Hull be vilified like Bonds has been?

[timothy1997 0]

Let me rephrase; marking this ball with an asterisk is no different than marking the record books with an asterisk for Roger Maris' home run record.

It is totally different. What I find hard to believe is the Hall of Fame involvement here. They are excepting the baseball WITH the asterisk. That is basically the Hall saying they agree with this ruling in the court of "public opinion".

Guess what; Bonds was already one of the league's top sluggers in Pittsburgh. He also held the record for the most MVP awards BEFORE he is alleged to have used any sort of steroids. Bonds was ALREADY one of the greatest ballplayers ever seen BEFORE he is alleged to have used steroids. Outside of Bonds' remarkable 73 HR season, he has never cleared 50 before or after that season. He hit an average of 46 homer runs per 162 games in the five seasons preciding breaking the single season record.

I agree. Barry was and IS a helluva player. What people go crazy about is that his stats went up late in his career with everything from players past shows that you don't hit that many home runs past your prime.

Edited September 28, 2007 by timothy1997

[eva unit zero 271]

I agree. Barry was and IS a helluva player. What people go crazy about is that his stats went up late in his career with everything from players past shows that you don't hit that many home runs past your prime.

Gordie Howe's best scoring season in his first 22 years of major pro hockey was 95 points. In his final nine seasons, four in the NHL and five in the WHA, he beat that mark five times, including a career high 103 points, and broke 50 assists for the first time in his career in 68-69 with the Wings. Was Howe using performance enhancing drugs to extend his top-level career? I just have issue with the arument that a guy's perfomance proves he cheated, especially when it has always been the case that players can have good or bad years at any point in their careers.

[timothy1997 0]

Gordie Howe's best scoring season in his first 22 years of major pro hockey was 95 points. In his final nine seasons, four in the NHL and five in the WHA, he beat that mark five times, including a career high 103 points, and broke 50 assists for the first time in his career in 68-69 with the Wings. Was Howe using performance enhancing drugs to extend his top-level career? I just have issue with the arument that a guy's perfomance proves he cheated, especially when it has always been the case that players can have good or bad years at any point in their careers.

now your are making the assumption that the NHL and WHA are the same, not to mention different era.

All I am saying is if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it must be a duck. Barry is guilty of performancing enhancement drugs just as OJ Simpson is guilty of murder. Both are guilty in court of public opinion.

[Guest DetroitIan]

now your are making the assumption that the NHL and WHA are the same, not to mention different era.

All I am saying is if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it must be a duck. Barry is guilty of performancing enhancement drugs just as OJ Simpson is guilty of murder. Both are guilty in court of public opinion.

Actually there is a difference here. Bonds actually ADMITTED to taking performance enhancing drugs. However, he said he didnt KNOW what he was putting on his body. Yeah ******* right. Like a professional athelete like Bonds is just gonna put some unknown cream on his body without even knowing what it is? That's a laugh. In fact, ESPN did an interview with one of the "Balco" guys. And he said there is no way Barry Bonds didnt know what he was using. He said it's unmistakable to anything else. Hense, Barry Bonds is a liar, a cheater, and an illegal drug user. So all I know is, Hank Aaron did it with blood, sweat and tears. Babe Ruth did it on hotdogs and beer. Barry Bonds did it with ILLEGAL drugs. I guaruntee if you were to go back in time and give Ruth and Aaron the same drugs, the homerun record would be in the 900s. Barry Bonds is a ******* joke.

[timothy1997 0]

So all I know is, Hank Aaron did it with blood, sweat and tears. Babe Ruth did it on hotdogs and beer. Barry Bonds did it with ILLEGAL drugs. I guaruntee if you were to go back in time and give Ruth and Aaron the same drugs, the homerun record would be in the 900s. Barry Bonds is a ******* joke.

I agree with you. It's eva that believes Bonds is gettin a raw deal.

[Guest jaytan]

I'm of the opinion that if you had some sort of magical time machine that could transport sports legends from the past to our era, they wouldn't come close to matching the feats they accomplished in their time. Performance-enhancing drugs or not, athletes today train harder, longer and better and face tougher competition than their predecessors. The players of today will always be better than those of yesteryear.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Maybe the Tigers should sign Barry.

(that's an obvious joke, of course)

[timothy1997 0]

Maybe the Tigers should sign Barry.

(that's an obvious joke, of course)

No joke. Detroit is one of 2 teams that he wants to go to.

[Guest DetroitIan]

No joke. Detroit is one of 2 teams that he wants to go to.

You keep saying this. Could we have a link please??? Cause it makes absolutely no sense that we would be interested in Barry Bonds. The guy cant play any defense. So we would strictly be using him as a DH. And we're sure the hell not getting rid of Gary Sheffield. The Tigers have no need for two DHs. Barry Bonds being a Detroit Tiger makes zero sense. I guaruntee we dont sign him.

[Guest jaytan]

Sheff can play outfield or even first base.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Prince Fielder will eventually pass 'em both, on triple cheeseburgers alone.

God willing.......but without the triple cheeseburgers.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Sheff can play outfield or even first base.

Yeah but we have Guillen starting at 1st base now. And Maybin/Granderson/Magglio are our best options for outfielders. Sheff is a decent outfielder. But Sheffield himself has said DH is right where he needs to be. The dude is getting up there in age. I doubt we're gonna put him in the outfield, running all over the place. Sheffield in the outfield is a downgrade to any of our current outfielders. Which is why Sheffield is our DH. And that's where he will remain, until he signs elsewhere, or retires. Hense, Bonds would have no place on this team. Bonds will never don the old english D. Ever.

[Guest jaytan]

He's probably not worth it anyway. The motivation's gone.

[timothy1997 0]

You keep saying this. Could we have a link please??? Cause it makes absolutely no sense that we would be interested in Barry Bonds. The guy cant play any defense. So we would strictly be using him as a DH. And we're sure the hell not getting rid of Gary Sheffield. The Tigers have no need for two DHs. Barry Bonds being a Detroit Tiger makes zero sense. I guaruntee we dont sign him.

2 articles in this week's free press regarding Barry Bonds. Posted both articles on the 2007 baseball season thread.