Datsyuk Gets an "A"

[Datsyukian Geek 2]

At the expense of who?

At the expense of whoever the team decides, of course.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

like i said, it's a compromise. datsyuk deserves it. so do draper and zetterberg. i'm sure draper and zetterberg aren't crying over not getting the A every third game.

My not liking this has nothing to do with Dats. I love Dats. That being said, I still don't like it.

Nobody could argue that Dats is more deserving than Draper or Z. They are quintessential leaders. Drapes resume and tenure are impeccable. Z is a cornerstone and has been groomed for this for years, probably our next captain.

Giving it to Dats is just redundant IMO.

Is there a more deserving player on the roster than Chris Chelios? Arguably one of the greatest warriors and on ice leaders the sport has ever seen?

Why not rotate 4 alternates?

When we had Fedorov, Hull, Luc, Chely, Igor, Lids, Stevie, etc... why didn't we rotate them there? All those guys (maybe not Igor) were captains or alternates on other teams. Maybe because of their tenure you don't give it to them but you can't argue for ability to lead.

IMO, Lids and Drapes leadership is without question. Z looks like the next Stevie. Dats? Other than being the most talented guy in the league, what leadership qualities of his are so great that this year we have to start rotating?

I don't like it.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

like i said, it's a compromise. datsyuk deserves it. so do draper and zetterberg. i'm sure draper and zetterberg aren't crying over not getting the A every third game.

I never said Dats didn't deserve it (or that Z or Drapes are crying over it), I just don't think they should lose their "A" every third game when they did nothing but a great job as Alternate Captains last season.

It's not a knock on Dats in any way.

At the expense of whoever the team decides, of course.

And you think Dats is more deserving than Z or Drapes?

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Dats? Other than being the most talented guy in the league, what leadership qualities of his are so great that this year we have to start rotating?

I don't like it.

i obviously don't know what goes on in the locker room or on the bench but on the ice datsyuk is a leader. his work ethic his team play his dedication. all of that. players see that. when you see the leader of your offense putting forth the effort and working hard and sacrificing and involving everybody in the play, it's likely a guy you'll follow. he'll get respect on skill alone and he'll drive with example. true he doesn't speak english well, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good leader. i for one like the idea of sharing the wealth. not that i think datsyuk is more deserving than either of our current alternates, but i think he's deserving.

so is chelios by the way. the only difference is that chelios is winding down whereas datsyuk is the present and the future.

I never said Dats didn't deserve it (or that Z or Drapes are crying over it), I just don't think they should lose their "A" every third game when they did nothing but a great job as Alternate Captains last season.

It's not a knock on Dats in any way.

And you think Dats is more deserving than Z or Drapes?

this move isn't a slight against z and draper. it's not because they weren't great alternates last season. it's a positive thing. it's not a move meant the show that draper and zetterberg aren't capable, it's a move to show that datsyuk is.

[bringback91 2]

And you think Dats is more deserving than Z or Drapes?

I don't think he's any less.

I hear ya on the Cheli thing Gord, I thought it would be cool if he got the C after Stevie. I mean obviously Babcock has seen something that's made him want to go all three of them. As far as what "more" he brings than the other two, I'd guess you'd have to have a stall in the locker room, and a seat on the bench to know. Lids seems to be a damn fine leader, strictly by example. If your looking for a loud mouth "ra-ra" guy Cheli is your man. I just have a feeling the only one's that'll have a problem with this is the fans. And I have an even bigger feeling if it was taken just from Drapes and didn't envolve Z at all, even less would care.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Draper is the man. But Datsyuk should get the "A" over Drapes. This will do nothing but help Datsyuk's game in the future. Getting the "A" will boost his leadership abilities for sure. And now that he's an alternate, players will be looking for Dats to lead as well. And if there is one thing Datsyuk can do, it's lead by example. Not to mention, Pavel brings more to the table than Drapes can. Hense, this was an extremely good move. And ya know who agrees with me? THE DETROIT RED WINGS.

And you think Dats is more deserving than Z or Drapes?

Hank, no. Drapes, yes.

Edited October 1, 2007 by DetroitIan

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

i obviously don't know what goes on in the locker room or on the bench but on the ice datsyuk is a leader. his work ethic his team play his dedication. all of that. players see that. when you see the leader of your offense putting forth the effort and working hard and sacrificing and involving everybody in the play, it's likely a guy you'll follow. he'll get respect on skill alone and he'll drive with example. true he doesn't speak english well, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good leader. i for one like the idea of sharing the wealth. not that i think datsyuk is more deserving than either of our current alternates, but i think he's deserving.

so is chelios by the way. the only difference is that chelios is winding down whereas datsyuk is the present and the future.

this move isn't a slight against z and draper. it's not because they weren't great alternates last season. it's a positive thing. it's not a move meant the show that draper and zetterberg aren't capable, it's a move to show that datsyuk is.

Call it what you want, I still agree with GS&T that its redundant. Why not designate him the Alternate Captain in the event of an injury to Z or Drapes? That would still show confidence in Dats without the "every-other" method.

Maybe its just a tradition thing for me, but I like that the Wings had 1 Captain and the same 2 Alternates (barring no injuries).

I don't think he's any less.

I hear ya on the Cheli thing Gord, I thought it would be cool if he got the C after Stevie. I mean obviously Babcock has seen something that's made him want to go all three of them. As far as what "more" he brings than the other two, I'd guess you'd have to have a stall in the locker room, and a seat on the bench to know. Lids seems to be a damn fine leader, strictly by example. If your looking for a loud mouth "ra-ra" guy Cheli is your man. I just have a feeling the only one's that'll have a problem with this is the fans. And I have an even bigger feeling if it was taken just from Drapes and didn't envolve Z at all, even less would care.

You can count me as one that would mind.

Draper is the man. But Datsyuk should get the "A" over Drapes. This will do nothing but help Datsyuk's game in the future. Getting the "A" will boost his leadership abilities for sure. And now that he's an alternate, players will be looking for Dats to lead as well. And if there is one thing Datsyuk can do, it's lead by example. Not to mention, Pavel brings more to the table than Drapes can. Hense, this was an extremely good move. And ya know who agrees with me? THE DETROIT RED WINGS.

Hank, no. Drapes, yes.

Obviously they don't, because if they did, they would've stripped Drapes of his title and given it directly to Dats.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Call it what you want, I still agree with GS&T that its redundant. Why not designate him the Alternate Captain in the event of an injury to Z or Drapes? That would still show confidence in Dats without the "every-other" method.

Maybe its just a tradition thing for me, but I like that the Wings had 1 Captain and the same 2 Alternates (barring no injuries).

datsyuk already got the A if somebody went down, i think. maybe chelios did first, but datsyuk was either first or second in line in the event of an injury. anyway, we just have different opinions, no sense beating this into the ground.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

datsyuk already got the A if somebody went down, i think. maybe chelios did first, but datsyuk was either first or second in line in the event of an injury. anyway, we just have different opinions, no sense beating this into the ground.

Agreed

[toby91_ca 620]

Maybe its just a tradition thing for me, but I like that the Wings had 1 Captain and the same 2 Alternates (barring no injuries).

Haven't the Wings rotated in the past as well though? Didn't Chelios wear an A on the road and someone else at home or some similar arrangement?

Edit: They also had rotating captains back in the early 70s.

Edited October 1, 2007 by toby91_ca

[bringback91 2]

Questions to all:

Would you be upset if Babcock gave the C to Z, and an A to Lids?

Drapes is apparent by resume alone I suppose which is fine, but without trying to induce a Z vs. Dats riot, what exactly makes Z so much of a better leader than Dats? I mean I've always been baffled by the whole Z on a pedastal thing. Language is a minor sticking point, obviously it doesn't affect Dats' game at all, and it's been said numerous times that he can speak way better english than he lets on to the media.

[TheLegend19 1]

Why am I the only one that doesn't find this to be that great?

I think both Z and Draper deserve the right to bare the "A" night-in and night-out. I'm just not a fan of rotating it between 3 players. It may be good to help distinguish Dats as a leader, but I just don't like it at the expense of Z or Draper losing it every third game (if that's the way they're going to work this).

I agree. Z and Draper deserve the right to always be alternate captains. I don't think it's wise to rotate the leadership on the ice.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't think he's any less.

I hear ya on the Cheli thing Gord, I thought it would be cool if he got the C after Stevie. I mean obviously Babcock has seen something that's made him want to go all three of them. As far as what "more" he brings than the other two, I'd guess you'd have to have a stall in the locker room, and a seat on the bench to know. Lids seems to be a damn fine leader, strictly by example. If your looking for a loud mouth "ra-ra" guy Cheli is your man. I just have a feeling the only one's that'll have a problem with this is the fans. And I have an even bigger feeling if it was taken just from Drapes and didn't envolve Z at all, even less would care.

Well, for my money, if Drapes were to be done after this year Dats would probably be my 1st pick as the next alternate given where he is in his career versus a guy like Chely.

So by all means I think Dats is deserving. I just don't think a player is deserving enough to warrant stripping it from 2 other guys who are equally, if not more deserving because they're already the alternates.

Some don't see it as a slight and maybe our guys don't really care. I just know that if I were an alternate, I wouldn't want to rotate. Either make me the freaking alternate or don't. Don't wishy, washy it and rotate it around. That's just a personal preference of mine and has nothing really to do with Dats or Z or Drapes or anybody else on the roster.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Obviously they don't, because if they did, they would've stripped Drapes of his title and given it directly to Dats.

Nah, I think it just has to do with loyalty and tenure. So instead of stripping Draper of the "A", they are gonna "rotate" the alternates. So at the very least, they must agree with me somewhat, otherwise Dats would never have been part of the rotation. If we're going by which player brings more to the table, and which player helps the team more, then it's gotta be Datsyuk over Draper. And this is coming from someone that has loved Drapes(and still does) for years.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

My not liking this has nothing to do with Dats. I love Dats. That being said, I still don't like it.

Nobody could argue that Dats is more deserving than Draper or Z. They are quintessential leaders. Drapes resume and tenure are impeccable. Z is a cornerstone and has been groomed for this for years, probably our next captain.

Giving it to Dats is just redundant IMO.

Is there a more deserving player on the roster than Chris Chelios? Arguably one of the greatest warriors and on ice leaders the sport has ever seen?

Why not rotate 4 alternates?

When we had Fedorov, Hull, Luc, Chely, Igor, Lids, Stevie, etc... why didn't we rotate them there? All those guys (maybe not Igor) were captains or alternates on other teams. Maybe because of their tenure you don't give it to them but you can't argue for ability to lead.

IMO, Lids and Drapes leadership is without question. Z looks like the next Stevie. Dats? Other than being the most talented guy in the league, what leadership qualities of his are so great that this year we have to start rotating?

I don't like it.

Absolutely agree with you Gordie (and NFM#25)

I have a feeling though that not liking this idea will be seen mostly as some dislike of Dats.

My main thing is if you're already got two qualified guys, why mess with it?

As you mentioned, there are and have been plenty of guys in the past who all could've worn the A. I just don't see the point of creating this rotation just to give him a title he could probably care less about.

Especially when you consider Datsyuk's less than perfect English skills and softspoken nature. He's a core player on the team for sure, but that doesn't mean he has to be an alternate to be considered important. Anyone who knows hockey would agree that Dats is one of the most important players to the Wings success, whether or not he has an 'A' sewn on his sweater.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I've often thought to myself: "I wish the Red Wings would base more decisions on the magic 8 ball."

I really feel like there's a great joke to be made here and I just can't think of it

I have failed.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Questions to all:

Would you be upset if Babcock gave the C to Z, and an A to Lids?

Drapes is apparent by resume alone I suppose which is fine, but without trying to induce a Z vs. Dats riot, what exactly makes Z so much of a better leader than Dats? I mean I've always been baffled by the whole Z on a pedastal thing. Language is a minor sticking point, obviously it doesn't affect Dats' game at all, and it's been said numerous times that he can speak way better english than he lets on to the media.

No I don't think I'd be upset. I'd be extremely surprised, and somewhat concerned to see if Z was ready to be captain of the team at this point.

As for Z for captain versus Datsyuk, it has more to do with personality. Both are great players. I think language is more than a minor sticking point. From what I've heard in interviews, Dat's English is not that great. But beyond language skills, he's just such a quiet guy.

Lidstrom isn't exactly a fiery personality, but he's yapping on the ice and has already told a few players that they need to step up their game. I just can't see Dats doing that.

Dats can lead by example, but there are times where you need to get into it with the refs and also motivate your teammates. It just doesn't seem like a natural personality fit for him.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Absolutely agree with you Gordie (and NFM#25)

I have a feeling though that not liking this idea will be seen mostly as some dislike of Dats.

My main thing is if you're already got two qualified guys, why mess with it?

As you mentioned, there are and have been plenty of guys in the past who all could've worn the A. I just don't see the point of creating this rotation just to give him a title he could probably care less about.

Especially when you consider Datsyuk's less than perfect English skills and softspoken nature. He's a core player on the team for sure, but that doesn't mean he has to be an alternate to be considered important. Anyone who knows hockey would agree that Dats is one of the most important players to the Wings success, whether or not he has an 'A' sewn on his sweater.

"Especially when you consider Datsyuk's less than perfect English skills and softspoken nature." QFT

Absolutely. And you're right, I tried to preface my comments on this so people wouldn't pound on me as a Dats hater but you never know.

Drapes = Great alternate

Z= great alternate

why mess with it?

To answer somebody else's question. Yes, Chely and I believe Fedorov bounced "A's" around years ago. I don't recall the reason why? I'm assuming that either Shanny or Lids were not playing due to injuries or time off at the end of the season sort of deal. But yeah, both wore an "A" at some point during their tenure here.

No I don't think I'd be upset. I'd be extremely surprised, and somewhat concerned to see if Z was ready to be captain of the team at this point.

As for Z for captain versus Datsyuk, it has more to do with personality. Both are great players. I think language is more than a minor sticking point. From what I've heard in interviews, Dat's English is not that great. But beyond language skills, he's just such a quiet guy.

Lidstrom isn't exactly a fiery personality, but he's yapping on the ice and has already told a few players that they need to step up their game. I just can't see Dats doing that.

Dats can lead by example, but there are times where you need to get into it with the refs and also motivate your teammates. It just doesn't seem like a natural personality fit for him.

Remember the Nashville, fight-fest a few years back? I think Stevie ended up with 25 PIM's and got ejected all on one play. I don't think I can picture Dats being that fired up at the officiating. But I can Lidstrom and Z being pretty vocal and in their faces if some heinous call was made.

[bringback91 2]

Some interesting points:

“The more leadership you have the better off you are," Babcock said. "We’re not asking him to replace anybody. We’re just letting everyone know that he’s an important part of our leadership group. But we’re letting him know that that’s what’s expected, as well.â€Â

“When (Steve) Yzerman left, we were talking to a number of the guys, and I talked to Pavel about being an assistant captain at that time," Babcock said. "He told me he wasn’t ready and that his English wasn’t good enough. I’ve been around him; his English is good enough. He’s a big part of this team.â€Â

Not known as the most-vocal guy in the locker room, Datsyuk is more of a leader by what he does on the ice, which is invaluable to the younger players on the club.

“It’s not about talking. It’s about modeling,†Babcock said. “I tell everybody that he even tapes his stick better than anybody I’ve ever seen. He just does it right, this guy. He’s phenomenal.

I don't really care either way, make Downey the captian and rotate the A between Meech, Lilja, Hudler, and Sammy if it's going to make the team better. I don't think they'd make a change for the worse.

[Guest jaytan]

This is a very odd move.... I guess his English must have gotten a lot better.

Still, he never seemed like the leader type to me. He's very quiet, and has the tendancy worse on the road and during the postseason.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Overall my feeling is why mess with it? Give a player the A and have him keep it, or don't give a player the A. The rotation thing just seems silly.

Dats is definitely a leader by what he does on the ice. He probably doesn't need an "A" to tell him that.

As for being Alternate Captain, some guys just have personalities that seem to fit the role of captain more than others. Holmstrom is a veteran Wings player and pretty much the heart and grit of this team, but I can't seem him wearing the C.

Overall, not a big deal. It just seems a little silly.

[bringback91 2]

"Especially when you consider Datsyuk's less than perfect English skills and softspoken nature." QFT

Absolutely. And you're right, I tried to preface my comments on this so people wouldn't pound on me as a Dats hater but you never know.

Remember the Nashville, fight-fest a few years back? I think Stevie ended up with 25 PIM's and got ejected all on one play. I don't think I can picture Dats being that fired up at the officiating. But I can Lidstrom and Z being pretty vocal and in their faces if some heinous call was made.

No worries from me there Gordo, you've showed many times over this past season that I've read that your not a "hater" at all. Different opinions on some things for sure, but makes for a fun debate. Surprisingly you've made my "most fun to read" posters list.

As far as the Nashville game, Z I could see, Lids that's hard for me to believe. Now my man Cheli, I could see the 25 plus probably an additional 5 and a 10.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Haven't the Wings rotated in the past as well though? Didn't Chelios wear an A on the road and someone else at home or some similar arrangement?

Edit: They also had rotating captains back in the early 70s.

Yes, Cheli and Draper did during the 2005/2006 season if Lids or Shanny (or Yzerman for that matter) didn't play. But that was just in the case of an injury. This sounds like its going to be a rotating system regardless of player health.

[Opie 308]

I bet a lot of the decision was made based on the height of the player, to be more specific the size of their mid section. With the new Jerseys and the lack of space on them shorter players will have a hard time getting an 'A' or 'C' due to the fact their jersey will have less room for the letter.

That is probably the whole reason right there, but hey I bet it makes them 8% better leaders!!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Nah, I think it just has to do with loyalty and tenure. So instead of stripping Draper of the "A", they are gonna "rotate" the alternates. So at the very least, they must agree with me somewhat, otherwise Dats would never have been part of the rotation. If we're going by which player brings more to the table, and which player helps the team more, then it's gotta be Datsyuk over Draper. And this is coming from someone that has loved Drapes(and still does) for years.

Aside from points what does Dats bring to the table more than Draper does?