Shockwave180 0 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 NVM Apologies, Ian. I was trying to quote Gcom, not you. Maybe after another five years, I'll figure the board out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Me too. Manny wasn't ready to be a playoff goalie in 2006. But the regular season stats were far from a "joke": 37-8-3, 2.19 GAA, .915 SV%. Goalies often need to fail once or twice to be ready (see Ozzie in '94). Who knows? With another chance maybe it would have been a different story. You don't become a starting goalie when you're in your 30's. Osgood was like 20 then! He and Legace are similar in age. Osgood is a starter. Always has been and truthfully he still should be and hopefully will be if he keeps up this play. Legace? He's a career backup. You don't become a starting goalie at 32. 10,000 times moreso, you don't become a starting playoff goalie at 32. He wasn't ready two playoffs in a row. Everyone's always got an excuse for Legace who played in front of a great D against crap teams but still never looked great down the stretch and completely fell apart in the playoffs. Wake up already. I agree that Legace was basically the reason we lost a few years back. But all in all, I would definitely call him atleast a "solid" netminder. He's not amazing. He's not a joke. He's a solid goaltender. And he will be a starter in this league for some time to come. If Osgood is barely a starter in this league, there's no way in hell Legace will be a "solid starter for some years to come." He's one more playoff meltdown away from retirement if he even makes it that far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Legace is the reason why we lost to the Oilers in the first round 2 years ago. He couldn't come up with the big save. It seemed Roloson was robbing us left, right, and center. When Legace had to just make one big save he coulnd't. Legace can only be blamed so much for the early playoff exit. Our offense was very unimpressive, our entire team wasn't hungry or physical, and we were loosing 9 out of 10 of the "little battles". The entire Red Wing team lost to the Oilers, not just Legace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 You don't become a starting goalie when you're in your 30's. I dunno. The names "Roloson" and "Vanbiesbrouck" come to mind, both of whom made the Cup Finals... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Legace can only be blamed so much for the early playoff exit. Our offense was very unimpressive, our entire team wasn't hungry or physical, and we were loosing 9 out of 10 of the "little battles". The entire Red Wing team lost to the Oilers, not just Legace. I agree, the rest of the team couldn't put the puck in the net either, but again, my biggest point is that this is the first real instance where even our goaltending was horrible. We've usually had crappy skaters and solid-great goaltending. Legace is the only instance where we've had terrible playoff goaltending. All our other goalies were career starters. Legace wasn't. Coincidence? I think not. I dunno. The names "Roloson" and "Vanbiesbrouck" come to mind, both of whom made the Cup Finals... John Vanbiesbrouck won a Vezina Trophy when he was 23!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My mind is blown. Roloson is somewhat of a relevant point, but he earned his spot mainly in the playoffs where Legace has utterly and completely failed. Still, a rare exception at best. Edited October 31, 2007 by gcom007 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DetroitIan Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Apologies, Ian. I was trying to quote Gcom, not you. Maybe after another five years, I'll figure the board out. It's all good man. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
russianswede919293 95 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 WE WON Very pleasant way to come back from a long night of hockey playing that interupted my night of red wings watching. YAY FLAP JACK Again I state my signature...6-0 GO OZZY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lollipop 8 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 I agree, the rest of the team couldn't put the puck in the net either, but again, my biggest point is that this is the first real instance where even our goaltending was horrible. We've usually had crappy skaters and solid-great goaltending. Legace is the only instance where we've had terrible playoff goaltending. All our other goalies were career starters. Legace wasn't. Coincidence? I think not. John Vanbiesbrouck won a Vezina Trophy when he was 23!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My mind is blown. You're really going too far by saying his goaltending was "terrible" during the playoffs. It really wasn't. He was never TERRIBLE, just never quite able to make the most clutch saves when he needed to. And also, I have to disagree STRONGLY when you said that he was over-rated. I think a big part of the problem with Legace was that nobody ever really supported him as a starter, and when he got the nod for the playoffs, everyone in the world reminded him that if he didn't win the cup, he was gone. He was playing with all the pressure of the universe in his mind, the D was sloppy, our offense was doing NOTHING, and he was playing OK. He didn't by any means play terribly. The reason everyone is so quick to judge one person or blame one person for a big problem (in this case, the goalie) is because it's much easier to do that than to say "Wow, our whole team really didn't function well. What now?" May I also remind you that the Oilers did pretty damn well that year...it's not like they lost in the next round. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DetroitIan Report post Posted October 31, 2007 If Osgood is barely a starter in this league, there's no way in hell Legace will be a "solid starter for some years to come." He's one more playoff meltdown away from retirement if he even makes it that far. Yeah but right now, that wont even factor in with Legace. Sure, if he was still with the Red Wings, and he was to choke again in the post-season, then yeah, im sure it would be a huge hit to Legace's career. But with the St. Louis f-ing Blues?? They would be LUCKY to even make the playoffs. So I GUARUNTEE that the Blues would keep him even if he was to lose it in the 1st round. No doubt about it. Hense, he will be a starter for years to come. Cause even if he gets released by the Blues, there will still be a worse team out there that will be interested. Bottom line. Hell, Toivenen is no joke, yet Manny is their starter. So obviously Legace is pretty damn "solid" in the Blues' eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HockeyCrazy3033 168 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Why are we talking about Legace? Did we face the Blues and I just didn't know it? lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 John Vanbiesbrouck won a Vezina Trophy when he was 23!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, you're right--I reached for the wrong name. But the larger point is that we need to stop pinning the Oilers series on Manny. Yes, Roloson played better, but Manny wasn't the only Red Wing goalie to lay an egg in the playoffs. And more importantly, the Oilers exposed a team that was older and more importantly not very tough to play against. Fixing this was a much bigger reason why the Wings went farther last year than the goaltending situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 You're really going too far by saying his goaltending was "terrible" during the playoffs. It really wasn't. He was never TERRIBLE, just never quite able to make the most clutch saves when he needed to. And also, I have to disagree STRONGLY when you said that he was over-rated. I think a big part of the problem with Legace was that nobody ever really supported him as a starter, and when he got the nod for the playoffs, everyone in the world reminded him that if he didn't win the cup, he was gone. He was playing with all the pressure of the universe in his mind, the D was sloppy, our offense was doing NOTHING, and he was playing OK. He didn't by any means play terribly. The reason everyone is so quick to judge one person or blame one person for a big problem (in this case, the goalie) is because it's much easier to do that than to say "Wow, our whole team really didn't function well. What now?" May I also remind you that the Oilers did pretty damn well that year...it's not like they lost in the next round. blah blah blah...he absolutely played terrible. No one supported him as a starter because he's not that good and they probably saw that he doesn't have the mental toughness for it besides the fact that he's just not that good on the ice. All you fanboys think it's some big conspiracy against him. When are you going to wake up and realize he's just not that good? It's not rocket science. You put up or shut up. He did nothing to help the team win the playoffs two years in a row. He made the situation significantly worse in fact. Two years in a row when two different coaches were foolish enough to take the chance. Lewis got lucky that Cujo came in and saved their asses for atleast a little while. All the pressure...all the pressure...yeah, every other goaltender in the playoffs deals with absurd amounts of pressure too and they still put up! Legace didn't! This is not rocket science! Logic. Reason. Rational thought process. Critical thinking. I know they don't really teach these things in school anymore, but honestly, does anyone have any common sense anymore? Legace fans make me wonder. And stop acting as if I'm just blaming Legace. I said the whole team sucked year after year. Legace is just the first goalie that's sucked right along with the skaters. Why are we talking about Legace? Did we face the Blues and I just didn't know it? lol Because I'm still very bitter. And for the record, I'm much more bitter that we have such irrational fans and a coaching staff that two years in a row made a really stupid decision. It's not Legace's fault that he blew it in the playoffs. He never should've been put in the position to suck so bad. It's the coaches and fans that really piss me off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lollipop 8 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) 2.65 G.A.A isn't terrible. It's OK, Mediocre. The REAL problem we had in the playoffs against the Oilers is that we couldn't score 3 or more goals per game. 3 goals? Come on...you can't blame the goalie. And the year before that, he had 4 games, 8 Goals against total. Definitely not terrible. Edit: Too spicy for the kitchen. Edited October 31, 2007 by Lollipop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Sorry, you're right--I reached for the wrong name. But the larger point is that we need to stop pinning the Oilers series on Manny. Yes, Roloson played better, but Manny wasn't the only Red Wing goalie to lay an egg in the playoffs. And more importantly, the Oilers exposed a team that was older and more importantly not very tough to play against. Fixing this was a much bigger reason why the Wings went farther last year than the goaltending situation. Atleast three times in this thread I've said the team sucked as well and it wasn't all Manny's fault. But Manny deserves as much of the blame as the team in this instance. You can't say that about Cujo in the past or Osgood before him. We usually suck because the team sucks and we've got rotten offense. The goalie usually plays atleast solid enough to win. With Legace, we had no offense and a goalie playing bad enough to lose. Sad thing is, we had Cujo on the bench (thank goodness he came off at all...) and then Osgood on the bench. They should've been the starters right off the bat. Stupid decisions. Stupid fans. A goalie who thinks life is like a childrens paperback novel you read in 3rd grade cause you're a mite hockey player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Legace is just the first goalie that's sucked right along with the skaters. How can you say this? What about Ozzie in 2001 and Cujo in 2003? Both instances of teams and goalies sucking equally. But that doesn't make them bad keepers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Gcom, you're really out of your mind. 2.65 G.A.A isn't terrible. It's OK, Mediocre. The REAL problem we had in the playoffs against the Oilers is that we couldn't score 3 or more goals per game. 3 goals? Come on...you can't blame the goalie. And the year before that, he had 4 games, 8 Goals against total. Definitely not terrible. With a great defense in front of him including Lidstrom playing the s***tiest teams ever. Cry me a river. When the goalie plays as bad as the skaters I can blame him just as much as I blame them which is exactly what I'm doing. Can't you read? Even if we scored more, we would've lost the series based on the play of Legace so how can I not blame him. It was a balanced equation. Goaltending sucked...skaters sucked. How can you say this? What about Ozzie in 2001 and Cujo in 2003? Both instances of teams and goalies sucking equally. But that doesn't make them bad keepers. Ozzie and Cujo played atleast well enough to win if we could've just put the puck in the net once in awhile. There is a very, very big difference in Ozzie and Cujo's worst playoff performance and Manny's best. Furthermore, they had 10X the trackrecord Legace had anyways. Legace's playoff trackrecord is 0-2 in terms of quality with an * attached to denote the fact that he completely melts down under pressure. Edited October 31, 2007 by gcom007 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Canadian Wings Report post Posted October 31, 2007 WHO SEEN THAT HIT DRAKE LAYED WITH LIKE 2 MINS LEFT BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lollipop 8 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 With a great defense in front of him including Lidstrom playing the s***tiest teams ever. Cry me a river. When the goalie plays as bad as the skaters I can blame him just as much as I blame them which is exactly what I'm doing. Can't you read? Even if we scored more, we would've lost the series based on the play of Legace so how can I not blame him. It was a balanced equation. Goaltending sucked...skaters sucked. Ozzie and Cujo played atleast good enough to win if we could've just put the puck in the net once in awhile. There is a very, very big difference in Ozzie and Cujo's worst playoff performance and Manny's best. The 2.65 was his GAA for the Playoffs, not the regular season (this was significantly better), so you can't say it was bad teams etc. So really, if we'd scored 3+ goals, we would have been fine. That's all I have to say about it, really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 As someone else pointed out, why are we talking about Legace? He's in St. Louis now. He's their problem now. The best thing for his career would be for him to put up good numbers in the regular season (until he wears down late in the season) but still have them not make the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jeremy88 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 How can you guys say that game was boring??? I thought it was really exciting at how close it was at the end and how hard the players were going at it. One of the best games I've watched this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 How can you guys say that game was boring??? I thought it was really exciting at how close it was at the end and how hard the players were going at it. One of the best games I've watched this year You and your like of competitive games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaWingsin071 4 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 Anyone have a link to the game tonight. Did not get to see it, let me know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 So anyone in here who still wants to talk hockey--did anyone get a good look at a replay of the Franzen hit? It looked pretty clean in real time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DetroitIan Report post Posted October 31, 2007 So anyone in here who still wants to talk hockey--did anyone get a good look at a replay of the Franzen hit? It looked pretty clean in real time. I missed the replay of Franzen's hit. But I will say, Lilija's hit was totally clean. Bad call by the refs on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Third Man In 2,091 Report post Posted October 31, 2007 I missed the replay of Franzen's hit. But I will say, Lilija's hit was totally clean. Bad call by the refs on that one. I meant Lilja. Long day. It seemed as though he got a penalty more because the other player got caught in an awkward position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
