once again hudler gets screwed over

[auxlepli 17]

IMO Hudler needs to step up his game so it forces Babcock to use Hudler on a top line. Obviously Hudler is a gifted scorer otherwise he wouldn't be used in shootouts. He needs to showcase that ability more during games.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

NN I am surprised at you, bashing on Sammy without anything to back it up.

Again I say this with no answer from any of you who bash Sammy all of the time.

Doesn't use his teammates? He has 7 assists and only 2 of them coming on the PP, so where does this "doesn't use his teammates" come from. [sarcasm] Oh I know, the scorer had no one else to give the assist to and the first person to skate past his field of vision got the assist. [/sarcasm]

I can understand people not liking him because he doesn't fight or hit, because that is a preference, some of you prefer to watch physical hockey with a lot of fighting, I prefer to watch my team win.

Sammy helps the team do that.

Try explaining your posts instead of just throwing out statements, in your research you may just find that your opinion is a little off base.

People bashed on Lang because they were not happy unless they were bitching, it is the same with Sammy, Huds, and to a lesser degree with Kopecky, but Downey can go out have a fight in 4 minutes of ice time, and he is the team savior. He is the reason why the wings will win the cup. However a ROLE PLAYER goes out and does his job, is building chemistry with two brand new (this year) linemates who are in their second year, and he is a bum who needs to be relegated to the 4th line.

You people amaze me!!!

So agreed. There are not a lot of under 2 million dollar players who score and have the same defensive talent as Sammy.

[norrisnick 1]

NN I am surprised at you, bashing on Sammy without anything to back it up.

Again I say this with no answer from any of you who bash Sammy all of the time.

Doesn't use his teammates? He has 7 assists and only 2 of them coming on the PP, so where does this "doesn't use his teammates" come from. [sarcasm] Oh I know, the scorer had no one else to give the assist to and the first person to skate past his field of vision got the assist. [/sarcasm]

I can understand people not liking him because he doesn't fight or hit, because that is a preference, some of you prefer to watch physical hockey with a lot of fighting, I prefer to watch my team win.

Sammy helps the team do that.

Try explaining your posts instead of just throwing out statements, in your research you may just find that your opinion is a little off base.

People bashed on Lang because they were not happy unless they were bitching, it is the same with Sammy, Huds, and to a lesser degree with Kopecky, but Downey can go out have a fight in 4 minutes of ice time, and he is the team savior. He is the reason why the wings will win the cup. However a ROLE PLAYER goes out and does his job, is building chemistry with two brand new (this year) linemates who are in their second year, and he is a bum who needs to be relegated to the 4th line.

You people amaze me!!!

6 assists. There has been a scoring chance on one of them, but it hasn't been noted on his profile on any of the sites yet, but if you look at the game sheets he only has 6. Anyway, I decided to revisit those assists for fun.

1 Pass back to Nick on the blueline.

2 Pass into the slot to Chelios who got three chances before putting it in net.

3 He shot the puck into a pile against Vancouver and Kopecky cleared out Luongo and Ellis had that weird blind backhand goal.

4 On a rush w/ Filppula he did give him a nice pass at the top of the circles that Fil took in and roofed.

5 Hudler dropped the pass to Sammy clearing the zone then he gave it right back to Jiri in the neutral zone and Hudler made the defender and Luongo look silly.

6 D to D pass to Lebda on the PP who found Hudler at the side of the crease.

6 assists and only one was a pass to a linemate while in the offensive zone. 3 were passes to defensemen (one on the PP). One was a pass to a linemate in the neutral zone. And one was his linemates cleaning up a rebound from a shot.

Displaying great chemistry and teamwork with his linemates...

IMO Hudler needs to step up his game so it forces Babcock to use Hudler on a top line. Obviously Hudler is a gifted scorer otherwise he wouldn't be used in shootouts. He needs to showcase that ability more during games.

He's picked up 3 goals in the last 6 games and is apparently on the bubble for even being suited up for Wed's game let alone being on a scoring line.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

6 assists. There has been a scoring chance on one of them, but it hasn't been noted on his profile on any of the sites yet, but if you look at the game sheets he only has 6. Anyway, I decided to revisit those assists for fun.

1 Pass back to Nick on the blueline.

2 Pass into the slot to Chelios who got three chances before putting it in net.

3 He shot the puck into a pile against Vancouver and Kopecky cleared out Luongo and Ellis had that weird blind backhand goal.

4 On a rush w/ Filppula he did give him a nice pass at the top of the circles that Fil took in and roofed.

5 Hudler dropped the pass to Sammy clearing the zone then he gave it right back to Jiri in the neutral zone and Hudler made the defender and Luongo look silly.

6 D to D pass to Lebda on the PP who found Hudler at the side of the crease.

6 assists and only one was a pass to a linemate while in the offensive zone. 3 were passes to defensemen (one on the PP). One was a pass to a linemate in the neutral zone. And one was his linemates cleaning up a rebound from a shot.

Displaying great chemistry and teamwork with his linemates...

You are a smart man NN, but tihs is getting a little too dense here I think...

Holmstrom gets his points and goals primarily within 10 feet of the net or on rebounds or tip-ins. He still has to score them.

Not many people are complaining that Datsyuk only has 2 goals so far this season because he has a boatload of assists and is contributing in a first-line role like he probably should be doing.

Yzerman's 3 goals in the playoffs in 2003-04 probably added up to a total of 10 feet. All were virtually tap-ins (game 6 elimination game at Nashville, 2 goals during game 2 against Calgary). Nobody's complaining about how those were scored. He still had to put them in.

How about Datsyuk's giftwrapped goal off Nabakov passing it to him in game 5 of the Sharks series? Would you have rather him pulled a Datsyukian Deke and potentially hit the crossbar instead of the sensible thing just wristing it into the empty net, like he did?

I know you got more of a pro-bias towards Hudler than others, I certainly want him to kick butt as well. Does it make sense for him not to be on the second line in a scoring role? At first glance, no, but I'm not the coach and don't sit behind the bench during games. Maybe going to fourth line will help bring more chances to the Drake and Kopecky line, which are expected to have no/very little threat offensively. Spread the scoring wealth out.

But to downplay what Samuelsson has done so far this season is silly. He hasn't been the main scoring threat, but he's not paid to be. Getting paid to be a second or third liner right now, and he's doing his job just fine. 9 points in 11 games for that role is pretty solid. Would you rather Samuelsson just blow snot rockets and pick his nose while another teammate just grabs the puck from him and contributes the assists?

A POINT IS STILL A POINT NO MATTER HOW YOU GET IT. You can debate "style" and how they get the points until you are blue in the face, but the most important thing is Samuelsson IS STILL CONTRIBUTING to the scoring cause, just as Hudler has been recently. I can't get that critical and anal towards players if they aren’t scoring or assisting in the most proper fashion when they are still scoring/assisting, or if he is still scoring/assistng regardless of who the linemates are. That goes way beyond my ridiculous-o-meter.

What if he was on the 4th line then with other people who couldn't consistently score or finish? Then people would be bitching about how he's not doing jack squat getting 0 points in 10 games. And trust me, people on here will do that even though it will be a 4th line which is not counted on as much for scoring. You are putting Samuelsson in a no-win situation with this scenario.

I don't give a hoot how Hudler scores or assists either, if it's an 80 foot slap shot, if it's a basic empty-netter, or if he performs a bunch of 360 spin-o-rama's passing it to Drake for a tap in, or if he mutates into the Incredible Hulk. He's still contributing as well given his role to try to put pucks in the net every now and then.

I'm no Samuelsson slappy but the ripping he is getting, even now when he's contributing to the scoring cause fairly well and doing his job, is beyond ridiculous now.

Edited November 7, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[norrisnick 1]

You are a smart man NN, but tihs is getting a little too dense here I think...

Holmstrom gets his points and goals primarily within 10 feet of the net or on rebounds or tip-ins. He still has to score them.

Not many people are complaining that Datsyuk only has 2 goals so far this season because he has a boatload of assists and is contributing in a first-line role like he probably should be doing.

Yzerman's 3 goals in the playoffs in 2003-04 probably added up to a total of 10 feet. All were virtually tap-ins (game 6 elimination game at Nashville, 2 goals during game 2 against Calgary). Nobody's complaining about how those were scored. He still had to put them in.

How about Datsyuk's giftwrapped goal off Nabakov passing it to him in game 5 of the Sharks series? Would you have rather him pulled a Datsyukian Deke and potentially hit the crossbar instead of the sensible thing just wristing it into the empty net, like he did?

I know you got more of a pro-bias towards Hudler than others, I certainly want him to kick butt as well. Does it make sense for him not to be on the second line in a scoring role? At first glance, no, but I'm not the coach and don't sit behind the bench during games. Maybe going to fourth line will help bring more chances to the Drake and Kopecky line, which are expected to have no/very little threat offensively. Spread the scoring wealth out.

But to downplay what Samuelsson has done so far this season is silly. He hasn't been the main scoring threat, but he's not paid to be. Getting paid to be a second or third liner right now, and he's doing his job just fine. 9 points in 11 games for that role is pretty solid. Would you rather Samuelsson just blow snot rockets and pick his nose while another teammate just grabs the puck from him and contributes the assists?

A POINT IS STILL A POINT NO MATTER HOW YOU GET IT. You can debate "style" and how they get the points until you are blue in the face, but the most important thing is Samuelsson IS STILL CONTRIBUTING to the scoring cause, just as Hudler has been recently. I can't get that critical and anal towards players if they aren’t scoring or assisting in the most proper fashion when they are still scoring/assisting, or if he is still scoring/assistng regardless of who the linemates are. That goes way beyond my ridiculous-o-meter.

What if he was on the 4th line then with other people who couldn't consistently score or finish? Then people would be bitching about how he's not doing jack squat getting 0 points in 10 games. And trust me, people on here will do that even though it will be a 4th line which is not counted on as much for scoring. You are putting Samuelsson in a no-win situation with this scenario.

I don't give a hoot how Hudler scores or assists either, if it's an 80 foot slap shot, if it's a basic empty-netter, or if he performs a bunch of 360 spin-o-rama's passing it to Drake for a tap in, or if he mutates into the Incredible Hulk. He's still contributing as well given his role to try to put pucks in the net every now and then.

I'm no Samuelsson slappy but the ripping he is getting, even now when he's contributing to the scoring cause fairly well and doing his job, is beyond ridiculous now.

You're not getting it, Jack.

Sammy produces, but it shouldn't matter what line he's on as he doesn't make full use of his linemates. Hell one of those assists described up there was when he was out there with Kopecky and Ellis. His style of play is not to give and go (though amazingly he pulled off a nice one with Filppula) and pass to open ice. Sammy's style is very simple. Get the puck. Shoot the puck. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Hudler's game involves a lot of passing, finding seams in the defense, give and goes, etc... He won't just randomly fire the puck on net if there is a chance to create more dangerous scoring opportunity. Sammy has passed up countless opportunities to pass the puck to an open teammate in the offensive zone or on an odd-man rush.

It's all about making use of your players. Knowing their strengths and weaknesses and putting everyone in a role so they can help the team. If Sammy had amazing chemistry with Filppula/Franzen/whoever yeah, keep him on that line, but he doesn't. He doesn't have chemistry with anyone as his game isn't designed that way.

It's not so much a knock on Sammy so much as a knock on Babcock as he's not using these guys as effectively as possible. Babcock should realize that Sammy and his linemates aren't working together so much as their working individually on the same line. If you just sit back and add up the numbers, yeah you might think it's working out, but not as a unit which should be the end goal.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You're not getting it, Jack.

Sammy produces, but it shouldn't matter what line he's on as he doesn't make full use of his linemates. Hell one of those assists described up there was when he was out there with Kopecky and Ellis. His style of play is not to give and go (though amazingly he pulled off a nice one with Filppula) and pass to open ice. Sammy's style is very simple. Get the puck. Shoot the puck. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Hudler's game involves a lot of passing, finding seams in the defense, give and goes, etc... He won't just randomly fire the puck on net if there is a chance to create more dangerous scoring opportunity. Sammy has passed up countless opportunities to pass the puck to an open teammate in the offensive zone or on an odd-man rush.

It's all about making use of your players. Knowing their strengths and weaknesses and putting everyone in a role so they can help the team. If Sammy had amazing chemistry with Filppula/Franzen/whoever yeah, keep him on that line, but he doesn't. He doesn't have chemistry with anyone as his game isn't designed that way.

It's not so much a knock on Sammy so much as a knock on Babcock as he's not using these guys as effectively as possible. Babcock should realize that Sammy and his linemates aren't working together so much as their working individually on the same line. If you just sit back and add up the numbers, yeah you might think it's working out, but not as a unit which should be the end goal.

Fair enough, when you mention their playing styles/contrasts.

The beef I have is not so much on what Babcock should/could be doing. Hell, if he can do better coaching/using players in your scenario, then do it by all means (even though things are working out pretty well for Samuelsson and Hudler and the Wings for the time being given line pairings etc. etc.).

My disappointment with people in here is when there's overreactions to the scapegoats, especially when they are doing fairly well in Samuelsson's case for the time being. Good to know you see beyond that with this, as expected.

[Opie 308]

NN

I have no problem with a suggestion that he be moved to the third line to make way for Huds or Mule, I believe they are more talented than he is, however to say he should be on the fourth line with scrubs is a little overboard for me, especially with a guy like Maltby grabbing 3rd line minutes.

But I will agree with you that Huds deserves the 2nd line minutes over him, neither of them should be relegated to the fourth line with Maltby still in the starting line up.

If you have to be so anal and specific that you have to go to the score sheet to find out how he got his assists to say he is not using his linemates than I think you are being overly critical. How well are Draper or Cleary using their linemates?

Like I said before if you want to say you don't like him or his style of play that is fine.

But then again I am getting a little defensive with the way people around here bash the players on a team that is 11-2-1, and unfortunately because I think you are one of the more respectful, logical posters on here I held you to a higher standard.

The only complaint I have with Sammy is him playing the point on the pp. He is getting better but I still get very nervous when he has the puck and is being pressured at the point.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I really have to say that right now, at this very moment, there is more to Samuelsson's game than Hudler's.

Edited November 7, 2007 by rick zombo

[WhiteLightning91 105]

LINES FOR TONIGHT

Hudler in, Kopecky & Drake out.

Per Bruce MacLeod...

Hudler on fourth line tonight

Jiri Hudler has been working in with the second and third lines, but at this morning's skate, he was on the fourth line centered by Matt Ellis with Aaron Downey on the other wing. Dallas Drake worked in on that line. Tomas Kopecky looks like a healthy scratch as well, working in on the first line during the skate.

Here's an early look at what might be the Wings' lines tonight against Nashville ...

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Samuelsson

Cleary-Draper-Maltby

Hudler-Ellis-Downey

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Lebda-Lilja

Meech-Chelios

Osgood (starts)

Hasek

[Thunderpriest 8]

NN

I have no problem with a suggestion that he be moved to the third line to make way for Huds or Mule, I believe they are more talented than he is, however to say he should be on the fourth line with scrubs is a little overboard for me, especially with a guy like Maltby grabbing 3rd line minutes.

But I will agree with you that Huds deserves the 2nd line minutes over him, neither of them should be relegated to the fourth line with Maltby still in the starting line up.

If you have to be so anal and specific that you have to go to the score sheet to find out how he got his assists to say he is not using his linemates than I think you are being overly critical. How well are Draper or Cleary using their linemates?

Like I said before if you want to say you don't like him or his style of play that is fine.

But then again I am getting a little defensive with the way people around here bash the players on a team that is 11-2-1, and unfortunately because I think you are one of the more respectful, logical posters on here I held you to a higher standard.

The only complaint I have with Sammy is him playing the point on the pp. He is getting better but I still get very nervous when he has the puck and is being pressured at the point.

Okay, so is the problem with suggesting that Sammy play on the fourth line vs. the third? To me, that's just semantics. The third line can be called the 4th and the 4th the third, it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't place Samuelsson on the "third" line because I like the chemistry there.

I simply do not like Samuelsson's play, though he has been contributing points. My beef is how he seems to constantly turn the puck over, be it via a bad hold in on the point during the PP, by an ill-advised pass on the rush, or by shooting the moment he crosses the blue-line, effectively giving the puck over to the other team.

This is not my first season watching Samuelsson, and I've noticed these types of plays before.

Is he playing better than previously?

Yes.

Is he putting up respectable points?

Yes.

Does he have a tendency to kill flow in the offensive zone?

Yes.

Now, I'd simply advocate moving him to another line to see if Hudler, Franzen, Filpulla produce together.

Moving Samuelsson to play with the likes of Kopecky & Cleary (when did anyone call them scrubs?) is not exactly like throwing the man down a flight of steps while bound & gagged. We've got enough depth where he should still be able to contribute in that role.

Personally, I've never liked his play. Count how many times he turns the puck over the next time he plays.

[bringback91 2]

Okay, so is the problem with suggesting that Sammy play on the fourth line vs. the third? To me, that's just semantics. The third line can be called the 4th and the 4th the third, it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't place Samuelsson on the "third" line because I like the chemistry there.

I simply do not like Samuelsson's play, though he has been contributing points. My beef is how he seems to constantly turn the puck over, be it via a bad hold in on the point during the PP, by an ill-advised pass on the rush, or by shooting the moment he crosses the blue-line, effectively giving the puck over to the other team.

This is not my first season watching Samuelsson, and I've noticed these types of plays before.

Is he playing better than previously?

Yes.

Is he putting up respectable points?

Yes.

Does he have a tendency to kill flow in the offensive zone?

Yes.

Now, I'd simply advocate moving him to another line to see if Hudler, Franzen, Filpulla produce together.

Moving Samuelsson to play with the likes of Kopecky & Cleary (when did anyone call them scrubs?) is not exactly like throwing the man down a flight of steps while bound & gagged. We've got enough depth where he should still be able to contribute in that role.

Personally, I've never liked his play. Count how many times he turns the puck over the next time he plays.

On this roster Sammy's a top six guy. I'm willing to bet he just does what the coach asks of him, shoot. 9 times out of 10 what's the worst that will happen if he don't score? An offensive zone faceoff. Turn overs happen when you handle the puck alot, but I haven't really seen a goal yet this year directly linked to a give away by Sammy. Yep, I'm a fan of his, think the guy plays a decent game and delivers some points. But none of that has to do with the fact the guy's the new whipping boy and it's silly. I will say I find it a bit odd that Babcock waits til Hudler does start doing something to switch things up, but hey that's why he's a coach and I'm a fan.

[Guest jaytan]

Hudler's not exactly a good player, but he's decent enough to keep around in case somebody gets injured. I don't see what you're upset about.

[Opie 308]

Thunder Priest:

On this team there is a big difference between 3rd and 4th line and it is minutes played. The 4th line has been seeing about 5 minutes of ice time.

[vangvace 12]

Thunder Priest:

On this team there is a big difference between 3rd and 4th line and it is minutes played. The 4th line has been seeing about 5 minutes of ice time.

Opie,

Can't deny that, but please also don't forget that Hudler/Sammy are also still projected to be on the second PP unit. So time on the ice won't be around the 5min mark. Well that is assuming that the NHL doesn't go away from penaltyfest '07.

[Doggy 130]

6 assists. There has been a scoring chance on one of them, but it hasn't been noted on his profile on any of the sites yet, but if you look at the game sheets he only has 6. Anyway, I decided to revisit those assists for fun.

1 Pass back to Nick on the blueline.

2 Pass into the slot to Chelios who got three chances before putting it in net.

3 He shot the puck into a pile against Vancouver and Kopecky cleared out Luongo and Ellis had that weird blind backhand goal.

4 On a rush w/ Filppula he did give him a nice pass at the top of the circles that Fil took in and roofed.

5 Hudler dropped the pass to Sammy clearing the zone then he gave it right back to Jiri in the neutral zone and Hudler made the defender and Luongo look silly.

6 D to D pass to Lebda on the PP who found Hudler at the side of the crease.

6 assists and only one was a pass to a linemate while in the offensive zone. 3 were passes to defensemen (one on the PP). One was a pass to a linemate in the neutral zone. And one was his linemates cleaning up a rebound from a shot.

Displaying great chemistry and teamwork with his linemates...

He's picked up 3 goals in the last 6 games and is apparently on the bubble for even being suited up for Wed's game let alone being on a scoring line.

It's amazing. This post really looks like it's defending Sammy. Very contradictory I must say. Seems to me that if he had 22 assists in his 11 games you would still break those down and try to argue why 20 of them don't matter.

I'm sure Samuelsson will be dealt with accordingly when Samuelsson becomes a problem. I know that's just not gonna cut it for all the Sammy-haters out there, but I guess that's the downside of having a coach who isn't a moron.

[norrisnick 1]

It's amazing. This post really looks like it's defending Sammy. Very contradictory I must say. Seems to me that if he had 22 assists in his 11 games you would still break those down and try to argue why 20 of them don't matter.

I'm sure Samuelsson will be dealt with accordingly when Samuelsson becomes a problem. I know that's just not gonna cut it for all the Sammy-haters out there, but I guess that's the downside of having a coach who isn't a moron.

I'm not a Sammy hater per se. I pointed this out above. It's simply a case of playing styles. Sammy does not use his linemates very well in the offensive zone. Period. It's commendable that he can still produce. And since he can, why give him linemates that might work better together as a unit with someone else on the line? Sammy's game won't change if he's on a line with Kopecky/Ellis/Drake/whoever or Franzen/Filppula/Hudler. But Hudler's game does change as his playing style is almost completely dependent on making use of his teammates in the offensive zone.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

hudler 1 goal 1 assist so far tonight ....... maybe now babcock will do whats right and put him on the 2nd line for next game lol ...... the kid is only gonna get better ........ filppula another assist tonight as well