A new Blue Line Comics Cartoon

[Viperar 16]

I love the blue line comics. I read them all the time.

This one however was about as good as Dan Cloutier.

Everyones posts have a reasonable opinion in this thread with intelligence at least lingering in the vicinity except yours

just thought id point out the fruitless bashing of a thread with no opinion since im practically neutral on this subject matter

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

How about the Minnesota Vikings? You should see some of the stuff their fans dress in. What about the Michigan State Spartans or the USC Trojans? I guess there's nothing wrong with a little stereotyping as long as it's white people.

Perfectly played. I don't read to much into things like this because when its about white people no one says a thing. I'm all for being PC, but I do feel a good amount of people pick and choose when to be hypersensitive.

It doesn't bother me when the Vikings, Spartans and Trojans fans show enthusiasm, so I don't really find it offensive when Blackhawks, Indians or Redskins fans do the same. As long as it isn't done in a demeaning manor I don't see a problem with it.

[Chelios57 31]

Everyones posts have a reasonable opinion in this thread with intelligence at least lingering in the vicinity except yours

just thought id point out the fruitless bashing of a thread with no opinion since im practically neutral on this subject matter

Read previous posts.

[Rob the Badger 0]

Perfectly played. I don't read to much into things like this because when its about white people no one says a thing. I'm all for being PC, but I do feel a good amount of people pick and choose when to be hypersensitive.

It doesn't bother me when the Vikings, Spartans and Trojans fans show enthusiasm, so I don't really find it offensive when Blackhawks, Indians or Redskins fans do the same. As long as it isn't done in a demeaning manor I don't see a problem with it.

Do you find the term "Red Skin" demeaning? Do you find the cartoon logos of Cheif Wahoo demeaning?

Which is true only if it's not OK to do it with any other racial or cultural groups... and that's a notion that I don't think is in evidence as being true.

Thanks.... I actually lifted it from a great article on Homer that was posted on NHL.com a couple of years ago.

If that notion is not true then, where are the US based professional sports teams that have a cartoon Black Skin, or Yellow Skin, or Bronze skin? When can we look forward to seeing the Harlem Black Skins NBA team with a cartoon logo depicting a big smiling black man with a fro pick in his hair? That'd be about equal to the Cheif Wahoo cartoon of the big smiling native with the feather in his headband.... wouldn't it?

[Rob the Badger 0]

So I'm going through my Blue Line emails and the reaction is about 70/30 positive to the cartoon. But the 30 who are against it are venomously against it. Irrationally so. I've got people who must be conservatives calling me a left wing bleeding heart. Then I have the folks that must be on the left calling me a Right Wing Rush loving nut job. I'm not even sure what Rush has to do with this since I don't listen to his show. So I guess whatever people are, if they disagree with me, I must be the opposite of what they are ... in their own minds.

One story is, a guy went to school in Jackson, MO. The community is named after Andrew Jackson, yes, that Andrew Jackson. They have a giant painting and a statue of the guy from what I am told. He went to Jackson Highschool, the home of the Jackson fighting Indians. Yes, the "Jackson Fighting Indians". That to me, sounds more like a newspaper headline than a team name. There is just something wrong with that.

Another guy called me a Nazi for bringing it up and that I am anti-American. Quote" "We beat them, we can do what we want now!" I don't even know how to react to that.

My favorite comment though is about taking the country back one foreclosure at a time. I don't know if he made that up on his own or got it from a comedian or whatever, but that is damn funny to me.

[Winged Scooter 0]

Eastern Michigan used to be the Hurons, but got PC'ed into becoming the eagles.

I've always wondered about this one, if EMU got pressured into changing to the Eagles, why is CMU still allowed to be called the Chippewas?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Do you find the term "Red Skin" demeaning? Do you find the cartoon logos of Cheif Wahoo demeaning?

No more demeaning than Vikings, Trojans or Spartans.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

I've always wondered about this one, if EMU got pressured into changing to the Eagles, why is CMU still allowed to be called the Chippewas?

The Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe demanded to the NCAA that Central NOT change the mascot.

Its mentioned in this article I found on mLive.com

CMU Chips keep name

Edited November 9, 2007 by Skiing - Puck

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The thing is, I'm not racist, so when teams mascots show off spirit I don't think about it in a negative context.

If some people find that offensive, that's one thing. However then it should be across the board (I.E. Vikings, Trojans, etc.).

[55fan 5,133]

I suppose perception is reality, but to be honest, unless your friends show up in traditional native dress, I think they are likely being a little too self-conscious about people looking at them. I also don't think that those experiences would likely lessen even if the team were called something else. Right or wrong, it's human nature that folks that appear "out of the norm" in a social situation will receive a little more attention. Annually we host a girl's softball team from Puerto Rico and we often take them to our local semi-pro baseball game during their stay here. I can assure you that they get a lot more looks from the crowds at the game and the "normal" fans do... and it isn't because our team is called "The Latinos".

Actally, it was my old roommate's sister who took her kids and was asked if they were going to dance. They weren't even Sioux, they were Ojibwa. The story spread amongst our group of friends, and it wasn't long before people were telling stories of other people they knew who had reported the same type of experience at other teams' games.

You are quite correct that perception is reality in cases like this. A little from one stupid person here and there goes a long way. The sad part is that they are still considered to be "out of the norm". They live here. And they were here first.

When my Godson was three, he was in tears because his mother commented that he was "wild" that day. He started crying that he was not a "wild Indian". She had no idea where he got that, since it certainly wasn't from her. It's sad when a kid is ashamed of his heritage. He's cool with it now, but that incident says a lot about how Native kids perceive how society looks at them. Now when he plays "Cowboys and Indians" with his action figures (or whatever they call them), he has them joined together in battle against Space Aliens. That way both sides of his heritage are the "good guys". Smart kid.

[lfd250 1]

So I'm going through my Blue Line emails and the reaction is about 70/30 positive to the cartoon. But the 30 who are against it are venomously against it. Irrationally so. I've got people who must be conservatives calling me a left wing bleeding heart. Then I have the folks that must be on the left calling me a Right Wing Rush loving nut job. I'm not even sure what Rush has to do with this since I don't listen to his show. So I guess whatever people are, if they disagree with me, I must be the opposite of what they are ... in their own minds.

One story is, a guy went to school in Jackson, MO. The community is named after Andrew Jackson, yes, that Andrew Jackson. They have a giant painting and a statue of the guy from what I am told. He went to Jackson Highschool, the home of the Jackson fighting Indians. Yes, the "Jackson Fighting Indians". That to me, sounds more like a newspaper headline than a team name. There is just something wrong with that.

Another guy called me a Nazi for bringing it up and that I am anti-American. Quote" "We beat them, we can do what we want now!" I don't even know how to react to that.

My favorite comment though is about taking the country back one foreclosure at a time. I don't know if he made that up on his own or got it from a comedian or whatever, but that is damn funny to me.

I'm not sure why you would stop. This is a discussion board and that is what goes on. This topic has been debated for some time now and as you can see some people are passionate to the extreme both ways (for or against) We have a saying at the firehouse " Leave your feelings at the door" Some days it's your turn in the hot seat and no matter what you say is wrong. My opinon was that the Native Americans can't have their cake and eat it to. Does that make it me a bad person, no just an opinon that others agree or disagree. So don't stop posting, who knows, next time you might get 30/70 totally against you. But they are fun topics to discuss.

[Gizmo 21]

If that notion is not true then, where are the US based professional sports teams that have a cartoon Black Skin, or Yellow Skin, or Bronze skin? When can we look forward to seeing the Harlem Black Skins NBA team with a cartoon logo depicting a big smiling black man with a fro pick in his hair? That'd be about equal to the Cheif Wahoo cartoon of the big smiling native with the feather in his headband.... wouldn't it?

"Blackhawks" are not a "race", they are an ethinic group of Native Americans. It is no different than the fact that "Irish" is an ethnic group of European Caucasians. Your statement is that we don't do it with other ethnic groups, so why is it OK to do with Native Americans? Well, in fact we DO do it with people of other ethnicities. So your assertion doesn't stand up.

[Rob the Badger 0]

I'm not sure why you would stop. This is a discussion board and that is what goes on. This topic has been debated for some time now and as you can see some people are passionate to the extreme both ways (for or against) We have a saying at the firehouse " Leave your feelings at the door" Some days it's your turn in the hot seat and no matter what you say is wrong. My opinon was that the Native Americans can't have their cake and eat it to. Does that make it me a bad person, no just an opinon that others agree or disagree. So don't stop posting, who knows, next time you might get 30/70 totally against you. But they are fun topics to discuss.

I didn't say I was going to stop. I just said that there are people out there that think that my views are the polar opposite of theirs depending on whether they're Dems or Repubs. Basically that they're molding me into the anti-them based on this one topic.

I still think that if a team called themselves the Black Skins and had a cartoon character of a big smiling black man with a fro pick in their hair, that people would riot. But the Red Skins and Chief Wahoo seem to get a free pass.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I wish that that I had the time in my life to argue an issue like this as if it mattered. If you don't like the team names or mascots or the leagues that allow them to exist, boycott them and hurt them where it hurts the most. Their bottom line. Spending your time trying to convince a few people on a hockey discussion board who are just trying to kill sometime between lunch and the end of the day is going to get you far.

[Gizmo 21]

Actally, it was my old roommate's sister who took her kids and was asked if they were going to dance. They weren't even Sioux, they were Ojibwa. The story spread amongst our group of friends, and it wasn't long before people were telling stories of other people they knew who had reported the same type of experience at other teams' games.

I don't doubt the this happened, but I don't see how changing a team's name would prevent stupid behavior on the part of stupid people at the games.

You are quite correct that perception is reality in cases like this. A little from one stupid person here and there goes a long way. The sad part is that they are still considered to be "out of the norm". They live here. And they were here first.

It's not a matter of who was there first or their position in society. I friend of mine in college (also Caucasian) once went to a Jesse Jackson speech. It turned out he literally was the only white person there. Needless to say. In terms of eyeballs in the church my friend Steve got a lot more visual attention than the others in the pews.

When my Godson was three, he was in tears because his mother commented that he was "wild" that day. He started crying that he was not a "wild Indian". She had no idea where he got that, since it certainly wasn't from her. It's sad when a kid is ashamed of his heritage. He's cool with it now, but that incident says a lot about how Native kids perceive how society looks at them. Now when he plays "Cowboys and Indians" with his action figures (or whatever they call them), he has them joined together in battle against Space Aliens. That way both sides of his heritage are the "good guys". Smart kid.

Well, it's good to hear that he has a good head on his shoulders. Edited November 9, 2007 by Gizmo

[SuperCalaFilppulastic! 34]

This is a good read:

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/wahoo.htm

And it became apparent while reading this thread that it was going downhill once people started equating the term "Redskin" and the logo of Chief Wahoo to terms such as Trojans and Vikings.

Seriously? People really think the term "Redskin" is equivalent to "Vikings"?

Good luck with this one Rob.

--EDIT--

As for the Irish and the Celtics logo, that is a reasonable debate - but we can't fall into the trap of assuming that something considered okay for one group, should be okay for the other. Don't try and simplify the argument either. I do not have enough knowledge of those mascots and histories to say anything worthwhile about that.

Edited November 9, 2007 by SuperCalaFilppulastic!

[Gizmo 21]

And it became apparent while reading this thread that it was going downhill once people started equating the term "Redskin" and the logo of Chief Wahoo to terms such as Trojans and Vikings.

Seriously? People really think the term "Redskin" is equivalent to "Vikings"?

No... I think if you re-read this thread, you'll only find a couple of people that don't express a problem with the name "Redskin" (me not being one of them). What most people are trying to say is that "Blackhawk" is equivalent to "Viking".

As for the Irish and the Celtics logo, that is a reasonable debate - but we can't fall into the trap of assuming that something considered okay for one group, should be okay for the other. Don't try and simplify the argument either. I do not have enough knowledge of those mascots and histories to say anything worthwhile about that.

OK, so do we need some sort of Federal Mascot Commission to sort all of this out. They could hold public hearings to hear from people that are offended by the misappropriation of this image or that image. They could also be the arbiter of which group must give permission before using such masots (for example any team called "The Vikings" must first seek the blessing of the local chapter of The Sons of Norway). Edited November 9, 2007 by Gizmo

[Rob the Badger 0]

There is a blue corn comics website? When I first saw the link I thought it was to my own bluelinecomics.com. Close. Very close.

I don't have a problem with the Blackhawks name per se'. If they're talking about dark colored birds. They could actually keep their name and just change their logo. Or if they wanted to 'honor' the tribe, just stop using a cartoony logo of one of their people. Use a tribal symbol or something. Someone suggested getting rid of the tomahawks as well. I wasn't aware that was a sore spot, but if it is, then yeah, change the scheme to an avian one, and let the racial overtones go away. They could even use a logo that reflects the combat helicopter. Chicago claims that the reason they howl and scream during the national anthem is in support of the troops, then change the cartoony cheif head into an outline of a helicopter.

Like that other cartoon in the link states, no one would support the Cleveland Africans or the Cleveland Asians with those logos. That would be immediately deemed racist and people would riot. But the Indians are apparently okay with people. I don't get it. I don't see how there is a free pass when it comes to Natives.

[Winged Scooter 0]

Okay again, IMHO we have become a society in which WAY, WAY too much emphasis has been placed on Polictal Correctness. It has gotten ridiculous. Like I said before , I am Norwegian, the Vikings nickname in no way offends me. I see teams using it because it's a moniker that is meant to imply toughness and ruthlessness. Two qualities admired in any sport. The problem with what the USA has become is we have become so overly concerned with what so many minority and specialty groups think, we have lost track of what made this country great. I get infuriated when every Holiday season, I see the umpteen billion news stories about a township hall having to remove a Navitiy scene because someone who is not Christian took offense to it. Guess what, the reason this country started in the 1st %$#*&^% place was because of religous freedom. And gee, I'm really , REALLY sorry if Christianity is THE MAJOR religion in this country. I am not a racist, so I won't go as far as to say if you don't like it leave the country, ( because we WANT you here for the right reasons, it's how the country was built ) but for crying out loud, if you don't believe in a certain religon, then guess what, look the other way, shrug it off, and move on. The same goes with ethnic groups, if you really, REALLY have a problem with a team nickname or logo, then by all means voice your opinion. But in the case of CMU that was pointed out to me earlier in this thread, if the group that is portrayed deems it as a point of pride, than what non-Indian moron, has any right what-so-ever to say it's not right? And if we ARE going to play that game than any nick name that represents a culture, type of person, or ethnic background has to go away. But keep this mind, at the rate we are going, it's only a matter of time before PETA starts boycotting names of teams like Tigers, Lions, Eagles...etc.... So unless we want to be rooting Detroit Blades of Grass by the year 2020, I suggest we all lighten up, and get over ourselves. Thanks for reading, I will get off my soap box now!

[vangvace 12]

But keep this mind, at the rate we are going, it's only a matter of time before PETA starts boycotting names of teams like Tigers, Lions, Eagles...etc.... So unless we want to be rooting Detroit Blades of Grass by the year 2020, I suggest we all lighten up, and get over ourselves.

Blades of Grass might offend vegans though.

[Rob the Badger 0]

So it's okay then to have the Cleveland Indians with their Cheif Wahoo logo? And it's all right to have the Washington Red Skins? So it would also be just fine to have the Brooklyn Black Skins with a over the top smiling black man with a fro pick in his hair? That would be okay with everyone?

[scissorfight 0]

your comics are terrible

[kevotron 3]

It's like a g*d Damn witch hunt man. It seems people with nothing better to than find things to get offended about. Hey guess what, I am of Irish decent and I dont give damn about Notre Dame Fighting Irish. Perpetuating the myth that all Irish like to fight, and that's because they are a bunch of drunkin louts who cant hold their liquor or temper. And you know what, I am like that at times. I get drinking and a little rowdy--my grandmother says "you act just like your father" (the drunkin Irish lout who likes to get into fist fights all the time).

So I guess I should be insulted by Notre Dames use of "Fighting irish." Hey guess what, who cares. Who the hell cares? I think all these people who get offended by this stuff, maybe should use their time doing something more constructive other than whining about a sports team's mascot. Help feed the poor on Thanksgiving, donate time to Habitat for Humanity, donate to worthy causes (such as things that help sick, or needy children).

The world will be a much better place thru doing these things, not finding the "the new thing to be offended by" of the week. For god sake, if you turn your gears worrying about stuff like this, then you do have too much time--and maybe should go down and volunteer at a pediatric hospital, or soup kitchen!

It's my opinion, thats all and I respect the opinions of people who dont agree with me on this, so please dont be offended by my rant.

Can I get a Hallelujah?

[Skiing - Puck 0]

nvm

Edited November 9, 2007 by Skiing - Puck

[auxlepli 17]

I think Redskins is very offensive. Indians as a name isn't bad, but the team logo is really bad IMO.

I don't have a problem with Blackhawks, Braves, Warriors, Chiefs, etc. Those are fine and honor Native Americans, at least as I see it. Where does it stop if we get rid of those names? Should also we rename states and towns - Miami, Illinois, Michigan Indiana, Milwaukee, Dakota, Sioux City? Should the Army rename the nicknames of it's helicopter fleet? Rename them all if we start down the slippery slope of renaming even more teams.