NHL vs. NBA attendance

[Superman54 91]

Wow, Tampa likes their Hockey!!!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Wow, Tampa likes their Hockey!!!

But that can't be! They're in a warm climate. Surely the Lightning belong here with me in New Brunswick- it's cold here AND above the Mason-Dixon.

I mean Betman's conspiracy to blah blah blah... yadda yadda bulls*** about Southern teams not deserving to exist blah blah.

[Hank 0]

NHL average attendance per game in 2007-08: 17,147

NBA average attendance per game in 2007-08: 17,141

Hockey is winning by 6 fans per game! (Winter Classic probably helped)

Also, we rag on Phoenix and Nashville for low attendance, but the NBA has 6 teams under 14,000 in attendance per game, while the NHL only has one. Somehow we never hear about those numbers, just that the NHL is struggling in Southern markets so much.

The problem is, while the NHL is much stronger regionally, the NBA destroys the NHL nationally.

The other issues is, unlike hockey, the NBA is actually better on TV than live. I've gone to live NBA games and they can be incredibly boring.

And lastly, the NBA is very, very strong in the bigger markets like LA, Miami and NY. If the Rangers, Kings or Blackhawks started going deep into the playoffs each year, or won a Cup it would help greatly.

The NBA survives only because of their great national TV deal. If they didn't have that, they'd be in worse shape than the NHL. But the NBA will always have a great TV deal because in the NBA you can have one dominant player and the player almost never disappoints. Guys like Lebron, Wade and Bryant will always produce because of how the game is played. But in the NHL, players like Vinny, Dats and Crosby can be shutout more of the time because of the suffocating turtle defenses and inflated goalies. It's death for companies like NBC or VS when they pimp a huge game featuring some of the games best stars and they don't do anything. In the NBA, the top players can get 40 minutes (or 85%) of time while in the NHL you'll only see the best player on each team out there for 30-35% of the game.

The NHL needs to do something so that the better players are on the ice more and their talents can translate better on the ice and TV.

[Williams29fan 6]

I love hockey, its my favorite sport, but why does everybody seem to hate basketball so much? I just don't get it.

[Hank 0]

I love hockey, its my favorite sport, but why does everybody seem to hate basketball so much? I just don't get it.

That's a good question. I know I hate basketball but I was astonished to find out that a lot of hockey fans do also.

They comment about that all the time on XM204.

My theory is this; because both are transition games they can be compared somewhat. So saying that, I think it has to do with the fact that one is super fast while the other is slow. In hockey, you see 5 to 6 goals on a night (if you're lucky) but in basketball you see both teams 'score' between 40-60 times.

To me, basketball is simply boring. I can stomach any other sport (including bowling) over basketball. I know that everyone pokes fun at the 'new' NHL now how you can't touch anyone, but that's exagerating. But in the NBA, you literally can't touch anyone. And you have superstars such as Dwayne Wade getting wheeled off the ice from a separated shoulder. In hockey, if a player has a seperated shoulder it means they take a few more shifts before deciding if they need a night off. And in the playoffs, it means you're Joe Sakic and you help lead your team to the 2001 Stanley Cup finals.

[Jwo 7]

I love hockey, its my favorite sport, but why does everybody seem to hate basketball so much? I just don't get it.

I hate it because they score too much. They have a 90% chance of scoring. So you just sit in your seat being bored since you know they will always score.

The no contact in Basketball is another reason. If you just lightly brush a player you get penalized.

The unlimited timeouts to what it seems to me because every time I watch a game they are always taking a timeout.

[auxlepli 17]

College basketball I love, but I couldn't care less about pro basketball. I've tried again anew, but it doesn't captivate me anymore.

Back in the 80's I loved it. Then it seemed teams played a differenent style game than they do now. Back then it seemed more team oriented - more passing, more running to get open. That doesn't happen anymore.

Basically hockey, basketball and football are the same - put an object into another netted object. Basketball and football lack the speed, the physicality, and the intensity, which ice hockey has in abundance. That's why it's the best game I can name and all other sports pale in comparision.

[Superman54 91]

Americans love points

Football, Basketball and even Baseball

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Exciting news. The difference is that the NBA get way more PROMOTION from ESPN, newpapers, radio, tv etc. But the numbers aren't showing up at the box office.

I'm one of the people tilting the scales - I have money to spend on circa half a dozen pro games a year and I choose the NHL over the NBA. I go to the Avs games but I cannot stand the Nuggets. As much as we rag on some of the Avs players - Laperriere, Foote, Floppa, etc, I would much much rather my $$$ go there than to a bunch of vastly overpaid, whining, thug, selfish NBA players. Harsh maybe but true. I'll still catch the Pistons on tv occasionally - and perhaps in the playoffs, but I don't want to pay to see an NBA game.

p.s. for those fans in colorado great promo tomorrow - $20 Ducks-Avs tix day of game - wish i could go but no babysitter

Edited March 5, 2008 by RockyMountainWingGal

[Hank 0]

I'm sure some of you might have read this, but ESPN had an article outlining how the general public views the NBA; and it's not good.

They asked people to rank all the 4 major leagues in certain categories and the NBA came last in several of them (wht the NHL finishing 1st).

Some of the highlights (as best I can remember them):

Do you feel the league is more about image than the product? NBA - 63% MLB - 24% NFL/NHL - 21%

The NBA was last in:

Do the athletes in this league work the hardest every single night? (NHL was first)

Do the athletes in this league care about the fans (NHL first)

Do the athletes respect the coaches (NHL first)

Are the athletes humble (NHL first)

The article then went on to say that in other polls the general public felt that NBA players were more likely to have criminal records, engage in drugs, carry guns and have a hip-hop attitude. David Stern said that if you take any group of men between the ages of 18-35 and give them money and fame they'd have just as many problems. That's where I really wished the author would have pointed out that NHL players seem to be doing pretty good with all of that too. And while baseball does have problems with 'roids, you really don't hear many stories about it's players brandishing guns or getting into a lot of trouble. It does happen but the NBA and the NFL are the worst for this.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Hank

[Hank 0]

I hate it because they score too much. They have a 90% chance of scoring. So you just sit in your seat being bored since you know they will always score.

The no contact in Basketball is another reason. If you just lightly brush a player you get penalized.

The unlimited timeouts to what it seems to me because every time I watch a game they are always taking a timeout.

2 excellent points. There's really no reason to watch a full basketball game. Just watch the last 5 minutes. By then, it's either a blowout or a close game. The game is a slow progression to either outcome.

And the timeouts are very annoying. They should cut them in half and then limit the ability to call one only when a whistle is blown or a point is scored. None of this "Ooh! I'm in trouble! I better T-Up!!". Can you imagine that in any other sport? Cop-out!

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I think this illustrates a point about how expensive it is to go to a pro sporting event. NBA is definitely more popular than the NHL nationally in the USA yet the attendance is behind. Does anyone else look at this and ask themselves "Hey maybe ticket prices are too high?"

[Hank 0]

I think this illustrates a point about how expensive it is to go to a pro sporting event. NBA is definitely more popular than the NHL nationally in the USA yet the attendance is behind. Does anyone else look at this and ask themselves "Hey maybe ticket prices are too high?"

I might be wrong on this but I think the NHL has the highest avg ticket out of all the major sports.

I just think people are getting tired of the 'thug-life' mentality the NBA has gotten. It wasn't always like this. I actually followed basketball somewhat in the 80's and early 90's. I loved the rivalries between the Pistons and Bulls or the Lakers and Celtics. And then Jordan took the league to a whole other level.

But somewhere after he left the league started getting too many 'gangsta' rapper wannabes in there. Guys like Artest or A.I. that seemed to want the image of slinging rocks instead of basketballs.

Attendance for the NBA has been steady (just like the NHL's) but I'd love to see the numbers, from both leagues, that show the actual amount of paid attendance in each building on any given night.

I know that Nashville was reporting over 12,000 on some nights but they were giving 3,000 tickets away per game too.

I suspect both the NBA and the NHL would have far different numbers if that were the case.

In any event, I think both the NBA and the NHL are suffering through the same things - disconnected fans and a weak product. Watch an NBA game from the late 80's compared to one now and then do the same for hockey. While both sports might seem slower, the games 20 years ago were far more entertaining. And fans could connect to the players on the floor/ice better.

The NBA has too many thugs and the NHL has too many players with names that need 2 tongues to say. Call that racist but I know for a fact that a young kid in Minnesota, Detroit or Moose Jaw would connect far better to a player named Joe Smith than Igor Bryzgerlov.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I might be wrong on this but I think the NHL has the highest avg ticket out of all the major sports.

I just think people are getting tired of the 'thug-life' mentality the NBA has gotten. It wasn't always like this. I actually followed basketball somewhat in the 80's and early 90's. I loved the rivalries between the Pistons and Bulls or the Lakers and Celtics. And then Jordan took the league to a whole other level.

But somewhere after he left the league started getting too many 'gangsta' rapper wannabes in there. Guys like Artest or A.I. that seemed to want the image of slinging rocks instead of basketballs.

Attendance for the NBA has been steady (just like the NHL's) but I'd love to see the numbers, from both leagues, that show the actual amount of paid attendance in each building on any given night.

I know that Nashville was reporting over 12,000 on some nights but they were giving 3,000 tickets away per game too.

I suspect both the NBA and the NHL would have far different numbers if that were the case.

In any event, I think both the NBA and the NHL are suffering through the same things - disconnected fans and a weak product. Watch an NBA game from the late 80's compared to one now and then do the same for hockey. While both sports might seem slower, the games 20 years ago were far more entertaining. And fans could connect to the players on the floor/ice better.

The NBA has too many thugs and the NHL has too many players with names that need 2 tongues to say. Call that racist but I know for a fact that a young kid in Minnesota, Detroit or Moose Jaw would connect far better to a player named Joe Smith than Igor Bryzgerlov.

Hmmm, interesting, I think ticket prices in all sports are ridiculous. Put it this way, I have seen ONE Red Wings game in my life and I consider myself a die-hard fan. However, I think post-lockout the product on the ice has gotten much better with the youth injection and the new rules that have increased the speed of the game. I can't comment on the NBA and the declining product but there is a guy named Lebron in the league that I know has a lot of star power and there are also a lot of Kobe fans out there as well.

I can understand the "ganster" image theory though.

[vangvace 12]

According to http://teammarketing.com/#

Ave Ticket/Fan Cost Index

NHL $48.72/$282.95

NBA $48.83/$281.90

NFL $67.11/$367.31

MLB $22.77/$176.55

Average ticket price represents a weighted average of season ticket prices for general eating categories, determined by factoring the tickets in each price range as a percentage of the total number of seats in each venue. Premium seating (tickets that come with at least one added amenity) are not included in the survey to calculate average ticket price. Luxury suites are also excluded from the survey. Season ticket pricing is used for any team that offers some or all tickets at lower prices for customers who buy season seats.

The Fan Cost Index™ comprises the prices of two (2) adult average-price tickets, two (2) child average-price tickets, two (2) small draft beers, four (4) small soft drinks, four (4) regular-size hot dogs, parking for one (1) car, two (2) game programs and two (2) least expensive, adult-size adustable caps. Costs were determined by telephone calls with representatives of the teams, venues and concessionaires. Identical questions were asked in all interviews. Superscript numbers next to Beer and Soft Drink prices denote smallest available size in ounces.

Seems like it's good to be the king.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

According to http://teammarketing.com/#

Ave Ticket/Fan Cost Index

NHL $48.72/$282.95

NBA $48.83/$281.90

NFL $67.11/$367.31

MLB $22.77/$176.55

Seems like it's good to be the king.

Obviously the NFL only has 16 games so their tiks are the highest and baseball the most games - thus the lowest avg prices. This makes the poll about the NBA-NHL the best comparison since they have an equal number of games. I know per ticket in my market - the NHL is definitely higher than the NBA. But this figures in all the markets. I feel I get much more bang for my buck in the NHL too - even though I DO think they should lower prices so more average fans can attend. It only makes sense since they slashed the salaries to cut the tik prices too. Center Ice upper bowl is 50$/tik in Denver - so I spend $110 on tiks and parking for ONE game - not something the average fan can attend often.....

[auxlepli 17]

I'm sure there are more Europeans in the NHL than the NBA, but that stat is increasing for the NBA. It seems there or more and more Europeans in the NBA every year.

[vangvace 12]

Obviously the NFL only has 16 games so their tiks are the highest and baseball the most games - thus the lowest avg prices. This makes the poll about the NBA-NHL the best comparison since they have an equal number of games. I know per ticket in my market - the NHL is definitely higher than the NBA. But this figures in all the markets. I feel I get much more bang for my buck in the NHL too - even though I DO think they should lower prices so more average fans can attend. It only makes sense since they slashed the salaries to cut the tik prices too. Center Ice upper bowl is 50$/tik in Denver - so I spend $110 on tiks and parking for ONE game - not something the average fan can attend often.....

It shows how important national TV deals, advertising, and marketing of it's players is to taking a healthy league to a higher level. But that's just my opinion.

[eva unit zero 271]

Obviously the NFL only has 16 games so their tiks are the highest and baseball the most games - thus the lowest avg prices. This makes the poll about the NBA-NHL the best comparison since they have an equal number of games. I know per ticket in my market - the NHL is definitely higher than the NBA. But this figures in all the markets. I feel I get much more bang for my buck in the NHL too - even though I DO think they should lower prices so more average fans can attend. It only makes sense since they slashed the salaries to cut the tik prices too. Center Ice upper bowl is 50$/tik in Denver - so I spend $110 on tiks and parking for ONE game - not something the average fan can attend often.....

The NHL, NBA, and MLB all see about the same revenue per season from a given seat. The NFL obviously sees much less per seat over a seon, but the NFL is the only league where ticket revenue is 100% extra revenue; the TV contract pays each team a figure that is greater than the salary cap.

[sjradio 0]

There is one site in Detroit that I have always felt needed to be redeveloped, and a new arena for the Wings would be the perfect solution to a problem that has existed since the millenium.

If you haven't guessed where I am talking about yet is the old Tiger Stadium.

Over the past 10 years or so, we've heard all kinds of "solutions" for "The Corner".

I've heard apartments, lofts, community gardens, office complex, I've heard casino's, I even remember hearing it being saved as a hollywood style movie set for use in sports movies.

Now if you demolished Tiger Stadium and put a new arena for the Wings on the same site, I can see the city of taking care of two problems with one project, finally tearing down Tiger Stadium, which should go out with a bang, rather than a crumble, which unfortunately is what's going to happen to it if it just sits there. The Wings need a new facility, Tiger Stadium is in need of demolition (not to mention the Silverdome... Wow, do we have to save everything).

Detroit needs to develop the Tiger stadium site, the Wings need a new facility, Cobo needs to have the exhibition space extended, especially for the auto show. The JLA site could give Cobo the needed space.

[Nicholonio 9]

This goes to you too, Hank.

I hate it because they score too much. They have a 90% chance of scoring. So you just sit in your seat being bored since you know they will always score.

What a stupid remark and comment. Okay, so it's pretty understandable you hate Basektball. But c'mon, that's what you have to say? Hockey is my favorite sport, and although my interest in Basketball has dropped (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball and Football is how I like the four main sports), that's what makes Basketball fun to watch for the way it is. Crowds go nuts for that s***, are you that blind and don't notice it?

The unlimited timeouts to what it seems to me because every time I watch a game they are always taking a timeout.

They have four timeouts, dude. FOUR TIMEOUTS. It's called strategizing you gimp, most of it happens towards the end of the game because that's when it gets good.

Are you going to argue about how long one minute takes in Basketball too? Because I could sure as hell respond to that one as well, just stop making dumb comments while you're ahead because your arguments make no sense at all.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Christ0pherXx

[Hank 0]

This goes to you too, Hank. What a stupid remark and comment. Okay, so it's pretty understandable you hate Basektball. But c'mon, that's what you have to say? Hockey is my favorite sport, and although my interest in Basketball has dropped (Hockey, Baseball, Basketball and Football is how I like the four main sports), that's what makes Basketball fun to watch for the way it is. Crowds go nuts for that s***, are you that blind and don't notice it?They have four timeouts, dude. FOUR TIMEOUTS. It's called strategizing you gimp, most of it happens towards the end of the game because that's when it gets good.

Are you going to argue about how long one minute takes in Basketball too? Because I could sure as hell respond to that one as well, just stop making dumb comments while you're ahead because your arguments make no sense at all.

How wrong of me and jwo to question why we hate basketball??? If only you had straightened us out sooner.

You obviously have a self inflated sense of worth. Just because YOU like how much scoring in basketball doens't mean anyone else does.

JWO and I gave reasons why we hate it and just because those are the reasons you love it, doesn't make our opinions wrong.

And yes, the fact that the last 5 minutes in a basketball game takes 40 minutes does make me hate the game even more. That doesn't happen in any other sport and it's because there's too many timeouts in basketball (about 3 too many for either side). 1 should be enough. I'm still amazed that you're allowed to take a time-out during real play. What's next? A cookie's-and-milk break?

P.S. Prepare to have your world rocked and your mind blown; some people don't always like the same things.

There are people on this planet that adore NASCAR, Cricket, Soccer, Midget Tossing, Bowling, etc. Not all people like those and for all different kinds of reasons. Get over yourself Draftee.

Edited March 7, 2008 by Hank

[Nicholonio 9]

How wrong of me and jwo to question why we hate basketball??? If only you had straightened us out sooner.

You obviously have a self inflated sense of worth. Just because YOU like how much scoring in basketball doens't mean anyone else does.

JWO and I gave reasons why we hate it and just because those are the reasons you love it, doesn't make our opinions wrong.

lmao, are you kidding me? "You obviously have a self inflated sense of worth", dude you're pathetic. I must've hit some nerve for you to go ape-s*** on my post, huh? I understand you don't like Basketball for the reasons giving, but they're just really silly reasons that would get laughed at instantly.

And yes, the fact that the last 5 minutes in a basketball game takes 40 minutes does make me hate the game even more. That doesn't happen in any other sport and it's because there's too many timeouts in basketball (about 3 too many for either side). 1 should be enough. I'm still amazed that you're allowed to take a time-out during real play. What's next? A cookie's-and-milk break?

Well, like I said... it's called strategizing. Yeah most sports are fast paced and not for your taste, but Basketball does require a lot of work and stamina too.

P.S. Prepare to have your world rocked and your mind blown; some people don't always like the same things.

There are people on this planet that adore NASCAR, Cricket, Soccer, Midget Tossing, Bowling, etc. Not all people like those and for all different kinds of reasons. Get over yourself Draftee.

What the hell, is that some kind of thread? Hah, I understand lots of people adore other sports, I like other Sports as well for many different reasons as well. What are you trying to prove by saying the things you said above? Are you trying to sound elite to all your LGW posters or something? No s*** people don't like the same things, kiddo.

And what's with the whole bolding and underling for DRAFTEE? Is that to say I'm some sort of noobie/newb/n00b whatever lingo is out there to establish what kind of loser you're for joining a forum and just saying what's on your mind? Seriously, I've been a fan of this site for as long as I can remember, finally signed up, and I come on here to have some nice discussions after the game, some great friendly arguments, and poking some fun at each-other, but what do I get? Well in another post I got some goon who is sucking up to the Staff here for a mod spot, quoting the link to the Rules section because I said the word ******. And now with you, you just went all apes*** on me, lmao. If this is the way the forum is ran (but a lot of kids it seems like), then I guess I won't be here long, they'll have to suck up with the way I chat and if they don't like it they can ban me eventually. Like I said in my prior post, this is the freakin' internet. Who cares what languages are spoke on here.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Christ0pherXx

[Hank 0]

lmao, are you kidding me? "You obviously have a self inflated sense of worth", dude you're pathetic. I must've hit some nerve for you to go ape-s*** on my post, huh? I understand you don't like Basketball for the reasons giving, but they're just really silly reasons that would get laughed at instantly.Well, like I said... it's called strategizing. Yeah most sports are fast paced and not for your taste, but Basketball does require a lot of work and stamina too.What the hell, is that some kind of thread? Hah, I understand lots of people adore other sports, I like other Sports as well for many different reasons as well. What are you trying to prove by saying the things you said above? Are you trying to sound elite to all your LGW posters or something? No s*** people don't like the same things, kiddo.

And what's with the whole bolding and underling for DRAFTEE? Is that to say I'm some sort of noobie/newb/n00b whatever lingo is out there to establish what kind of loser you're for joining a forum and just saying what's on your mind? Seriously, I've been a fan of this site for as long as I can remember, finally signed up, and I come on here to have some nice discussions after the game, some great friendly arguments, and poking some fun at each-other, but what do I get? Well in another post I got some goon who is sucking up to the Staff here for a mod spot, quoting the link to the Rules section because I said the word ******. And now with you, you just went all apes*** on me, lmao. If this is the way the forum is ran (but a lot of kids it seems like), then I guess I won't be here long, they'll have to suck up with the way I chat and if they don't like it they can ban me eventually. Like I said in my prior post, this is the freakin' internet. Who cares what languages are spoke on here.

The whole point is that you are a newbie and you come on here to blast two members, who've been here a lot longer than you, for no reason at all. I don't give two craps and a monkey piss if you're in love with basketball, you don't need to insult anyone because their opinion is different than yours.

How hard would it have been for you to respond "I can see why you don't like basketball, but here's why I like it". But no, you're like a lot of other new message board members that think they're cool by coming on a board and blasting people for their own amusement.

Just because you can be safe behind your monitor doesn't mean you should be able to jump on any internet forum and blast away. Have some common courtesy.

P.S. If that's how you're going to act on this message board then maybe it's not for you. I also think it's hilarious that you feel the need to use the word '******' and then call the rest of us kids. Please show some maturity around here.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Hank

[Nicholonio 9]

The whole point is that you are a newbie and you come on here to blast two members, who've been here a lot longer than you, for no reason at all. I don't give two craps and a monkey piss if you're in love with basketball, you don't need to insult anyone because their opinion is different than yours.

If you read what I wrote correctly, I'm not ripping into your opinion's. I came on here to poke some fun, have some fun arguments, yet you're blowing things way out of the water here. I never once blasted two members here either, I've been a forum poster for years, so again... please stop trying to sound so elite.

How hard would it have been for you to respond "I can see why you don't like basketball, but here's why I like it". But no, you're like a lot of other new message board members that think they're cool by coming on a board and blasting people for their own amusement.

I never once thought to myself that I was cool, nor did I find amusement out of it.

Just because you can be safe behind your monitor doesn't mean you should be able to jump on any internet forum and blast away. Have some common courtesy.

lmfao, what?

P.S. If that's how you're going to act on this message board then maybe it's not for you. I also think it's hilarious that you feel the need to use the word '******' and then call the rest of us kids. Please show some maturity around here.

I used the word '******' on the Anaheim Ducks, not on any of you guys. But whatever, it's cool.

Thanks for banning me though, Turkey. I think I learned a valid lesson in he forum world. Especially on LGW.com. Just wanted to reply back to his response to clear some things up. Don't ban me again, please.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Christ0pherXx