Why is Samuelsson still on the PP point?

[Opie 308]

Maltby hits, kills penalties, scores (which Sammy does occasionally also), is a better skater, and his shooting has a purpose (zinger). He could be on the 2nd line just like Sammy could be on the 3rd.

And your proof?

Sure I will play this game:

Ok dude you lost a lot of credit when you said he could be on the second line and that he scores, Sammy in 1/3 of the games has scored over half of the goals Malts has. Maltby has been a very good career third liner. Most minutes per game in a season just over 16, ave about 13.

What in the hell is Maltby purpose behind his 1 sog a game! That is right 58 SOG in 53 games!

Maltby hits, yeah he is a huge hitter I know players all over the league are afraid of Malts.

Maltby used to be those thing you listed but when was the last time he did any of that!!!

Maltby has 30pts in the past 2+ years, Sammy has over 30 this year alone!

Maltby has 16 goals over the past 2+ years, Sammy has 48 (of his 67) in that same span.

In the past 2+ years Sammy is a plus 46, Maltby is a -23 (mind you on one of the best teams in the league in the past 2+ years).

Maltby kills penalties out of necessity at times (hmm funny that is the same reason I said sammy was on the pp point, necessity), the main PK guys are Draper, Z, Cleary (when Healthy), and even Drake has seen more PK time this year than Malts(after researching that I could be wrong about the Drake part, I can't find a PK time stat and I am not hunting it down right now).

Maltby's career year he had the following stats:

82gp 14g 23a 37pts 17+\- 91PIM (02-03)

Sammy's career year:

71gp 23g 22a 45pts 27+\- 42PIM (05-06, 06-07 probably would have been but he only played 53 games, oh and in those 53 games he almost had Maltby's career season.)

So yes at one point in time in his career, Maltby may have been a better player than Sammy, However at this time and over the past 2+ seasons:

HE IS NOT!!!!

Now you will notice to back up my point I used facts and things that I can back up with proof, not my opinion that Maltby is a better skater or shoots with more purpose, things that are impossible to prove or disprove.

Oh and your zinger was dumb! But that is my opinion, not a fact!

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Sure I will play this game:

Ok dude you lost a lot of credit when you said he could be on the second line and that he scores, Sammy in 1/3 of the games has scored over half of the goals Malts has. Maltby has been a very good career third liner. Most minutes per game in a season just over 16, ave about 13.

What in the hell is Maltby purpose behind his 1 sog a game! That is right 58 SOG in 53 games!

Maltby hits, yeah he is a huge hitter I know players all over the league are afraid of Malts.

Maltby used to be those thing you listed but when was the last time he did any of that!!!

Maltby has 30pts in the past 2+ years, Sammy has over 30 this year alone!

Maltby has 16 goals over the past 2+ years, Sammy has 48 (of his 67) in that same span.

In the past 2+ years Sammy is a plus 46, Maltby is a -23 (mind you on one of the best teams in the league in the past 2+ years).

Maltby kills penalties out of necessity at times (hmm funny that is the same reason I said sammy was on the pp point, necessity), the main PK guys are Draper, Z, Cleary (when Healthy), and even Drake has seen more PK time this year than Malts(after researching that I could be wrong about the Drake part, I can't find a PK time stat and I am not hunting it down right now).

Maltby's career year he had the following stats:

82gp 14g 23a 37pts 17+\- 91PIM (02-03)

Sammy's career year:

71gp 23g 22a 45pts 27+\- 42PIM (05-06, 06-07 probably would have been but he only played 53 games, oh and in those 53 games he almost had Maltby's career season.)

So yes at one point in time in his career, Maltby may have been a better player than Sammy, However at this time and over the past 2+ seasons:

HE IS NOT!!!!

Now you will notice to back up my point I used facts and things that I can back up with proof, not my opinion that Maltby is a better skater or shoots with more purpose, things that are impossible to prove or disprove.

Oh and your zinger was dumb! But that is my opinion, not a fact!

A. Seeing as we are in the now, career years are a moot point. But if we were playing that game. Maltby has 3 Cups and Sammy has 0. I won't go there since they don't matter, and neither do career years.

B. SOG per game mean squat. Sammys shooting percentage is 4.64%. That's 11 goals on 237 shots. Maltby's is 8.33%. That's 5 goals on 60 shots. That stat is meaningless also, since we all know that Sammy sees more minutes during the game in 5 on 5 and PP situations. And Sammy has played 15 more games. So, you can't use the SOG argument.

C. Game winning goals. Sammy has one, Maltby has 1. Well...

D. Draper/Maltby are the best PK duo on the team and maybe in the league. Sammy is not the best point shooter on the team, and wouldn't be in GR either. So, on the special teams Maltby is superior.

E. Sammy plays with Z. Maltby plays with Draper and Drake. Who's going to get more points and pluses? Sammy is out there to shoot, Maltby to stop goals from being scored.

F. As for being better skaters, agree to disagree. But Malts is fast and Sammy is not.

IMHO, Maltby >>>>> Sammy. And given the ridiculous amount of chances to score that Sammy gets (2nd line and 2nd PP unit) Maltby would get as much of a chance to score that Sammy gets and he would get goals.

The fact that he is a better defensive player, grinds and hits, and chooses his spots to shoot makes him a better player in my eyes.

[Opie 308]

The fact that he is a better defensive player, grinds and hits, and chooses his spots to shoot makes him a better player in my eyes.

That also makes it your opinion!

I will have to disagree with your assesment of Draper and Malts being the best PK duo, again there was a point in time where they were one of the best in the league, not any more.

Sammy plays with Z, really every game, he didn't play on the third line at all this year, he didn't play with Draper and Drake at all.

So what you are telling me is that you have different expectations of Maltby, it is ok that he never shoots he chooses his shots wisely. OK, again your opinion.

If Maltby is such a great option why then would a coach who is trying to win a cup and is 47-20-6 right now, make the horrendous mistake of keeping a sure fire 2nd liner like Maltby on the third line.

I KNOW, IT IS A CONSPIRACY!! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!!

I know why Babs uses Sammy now, it is not because he is a better option than say Maltby, it is that the Ducks are still paying Babs and he is trying to set up Det to lose.

I love how people still think Maltby grinds and hits, D-mac and Draper did most of the work on that line, when it was the great Grind line. Maltby was an excellent PK player, Maltby was once (as in one time not as in the past) a 20 goal scorer.

Maltby was a great agitator who had D-mac to cover his ass.

I am done arguing that Maltby is currently a better player. That is your opinion mine is that he is not. I guess we will have to let the coaching staff and the team decide that.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Opie

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I am done arguing that Maltby is currently a better player. That is your opinion mine is that he is not. I guess we will have to let the coaching staff and the team decide that.

Yes, because the Wings do make a habit of keeping mediocre players on the team for 10 years at time.

[Copenhagen848 58]

Sammy is not lazy but he sucks™

[stevkrause 1,247]

I have been screaming this at the TV for the last 5 games... it seemed like Babs was playing a Lidstrom-Rafalski, Stuart-Kronwall pairing for a few games there and then he went back to can't-hit-the-broad-side-of-a-barn-Sammy... I don't get it, if he is so bent on a right handed shot from the point, I would honestly rather see Maltby or Chelios out there than Sammy... at least they'll both get the puck to the net and maybe keep it in the zone once in a while...

just needed to drive this home.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

So then what healthy Forward should be playing in the top 6 besides Sammy.

I never said he is a top 6 forward, I said he plays a role.

And when Cleary and Homer are healthy that makes his role less.

There are injuries right now, and there are certain things the coach wants to see on the blue line of the pp, these are the reasons he plays the way he does. It is Babcock's and Holland's and Mr. I's team. If they had a problem with him in the role he is playing they would change it.

Look at my post before, his stats are not horrible, they are not great but would you rather pay twice his salary for:

Doug Weight (about the same stats, a little less)

Peter Schaefer

Tim Connolly

I could keep going team by team to find guys who make about twice his salary and are playing similar or worse hockey in a similar role.

I am not trying to say that Sammy is a great forward (which I think because I am not saying he is garbage some of you think I am saying he is great) but he is not as bad as you make it.

He gets blame when some one can't handle his pass even though it may hit Z on the tape, you people claim he passed it to hard? WTF?

How on earth could lowly Sammy who can't even pass according to you guys, hit him on the tape, and then have passed it too hard.

The man is not a great hockey player, but much like Huds, Lilja, Lebda, Kopecky, etc... you cannot have a successful team in the salary cap era without these guys, cheap role players.

Look at Tampa, they threw tons of money at a couple of players only to suck and have to trade those players, because they don't have two things, cheap role players and solid goaltending.

I have no problem, btw, with people saying he shouldn't be in the top 6, as I believe he shouldn't be, but there are some of you that completely discredit his abilities because you are spoiled wings fans and have no clue what it means to root for a team that sucks ass!

You see some one not doing what Dats, Z, Cleary, Homer, Franzen (as of late, even though most of you gave up on him, cough*), and they are trash player and their is no need for them to see any ice. What you don't realize is that every day their coach sees them, all of them, and if anyone on the team stepped up and showed they could play the way and style Babs wanted in place of Sammy do you really think he would risk his job because he has man love for Sammy.

He can cut Hud's/Sammy's minutes, or anyone's for that matter, when the team is healthy and firing on all cylinders. When the team is trying to rebuild from an injury streak, or certain players are out, or when certain positions (like 2nd pp point) need to be filled a COACH must fill those holes with what he has. THEN he has to make that player think that he has all of the confidence in the world in said player, otherwise that player will go out there thinking, Damn my coach doesn't think I can do it, I must suck at this!!

Doug Weight got his contract when he was still an effective guy and one of the faces of his franchise. Tim Connolly is worlds better - clearly youve never seen him play or youd know the only thing keeping him from being a 60-70 point got is his injury history. So youre 1 for 3. And thats not the point at any rate. Weight and Connolly are, or were when they got their contracts, top 6 guys. Sammy never was. He still isnt.

Look at it this way. Would you want Sammy over any of Flip, Hudler, Franzen, Hank, Datsyuk, Cleary, or Homer in an offensive role? No. Would you want Sammy over any of our bottom line players in a PKing/Physical role? No. Sammy has no place on a team like Detroit. Hes a waste of a roster spot. And where I think all the Sammy bashers/haters and the Sammy supporters diverge is that all the Sammy suckers seem to think that we all want an explosive Ovechkinesque guy to take his role for only 1.2M. WRONG. People ***** about Sammy because he offers nothing of what we dont already have tons of. Ask any (knowledgeable) Sammy basher, and he/she will tell you that Sammy is a waste of a roster spot that should be used on a Mike Grier/Chris Gratton/Raffi Torres/Chris Neil/You-get-the-idea type player.

[Guest Hatethedrake!]

My top 6 is easy. Flip/Dats/Homer followed by Mule/Z/Cleary. Sammy belongs on the 4th line with Hudler and Kopecky. And nowhere near the PP. Stuart should be on the 2nd PP unit. Not Sammy. I don't care if he can shoot right hand thunderbolts from his ass.

[Copenhagen848 58]

My top 6 is easy. Flip/Dats/Homer followed by Mule/Z/Cleary. Sammy belongs on the 4th line with Hudler and Kopecky. And nowhere near the PP. Stuart should be on the 2nd PP unit. Not Sammy. I don't care if he can shoot right hand thunderbolts from his ass.

Lol, and amen to that!

[Majsheppard 203]

I am not saying Sammy will turn the puck over because he is Sammy. I think any forward on D is a bad idea. You should only do that as a last resort, and let us face it we have so many great puck moving Defensemen we should not be gambling at all.

Now Sammy needs to be on the forth line reguardless, he isn't a top six forward. I hate that they are going to put Franzen on the third line and Sammy on the Second. I blame Sammy for Zetters drop in production.

I rarely single out anyone player, but he really isn't good enough to be a top six for us, and we have enough role players. For his sake he should move on to a new team first chance he gets.

Now this comparing him to others is not really hitting the point. Remember that Malts is a defensive forward, so his points are not the biggest thing the Wings are looking for.

I think Sammy Hudler and drake should be the fourth line. Grind for third. Franzen Filp Cleary and Zetter Pavel Homer first.

BTW Kopecky is starting IMO to look like a player.

[Majsheppard 203]

Oh and I wouldn't give Maltby another contract either. I love him but his time is pretty much over as well.

[Barrie 900]

Oh and I wouldn't give Maltby another contract either. I love him but his time is pretty much over as well.

Let Maltby retire as a Wing, they guy's earned it, and he's not really taking ice time away from a young player. No one else is ready yet.

[Majsheppard 203]

That's what I am saying, he can retire with a cup victory!!

Plus I think our farm is got guys that are ready to try and fill his shoes. The main word there is try. Yet you got to start sometime.

[FinWing 26]

Didn't Maltby sign a fresh 3-year contract or something..?

[Mason 38]

I posted in the Stuart thread when we acquired him that I had a bad feeling Samuelsson would still play point...

[Sebastian 0]

I think the appropriate question is "Why does Sammy still see ice time?"

LMAOOOO and Why the F*** is sammy on line one?

Babcock says "You play well and you get to play.".......Why the f**k is Sammy getting to play then?

I dont understand how Sammy made it to the NHL

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

I dont understand how Sammy made it to the NHL

He ended up on the Wings because some Swedish players on the team said he was good. Apparently they were drunk when they saw him play.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

He ended up on the Wings because some Swedish players on the team said he was good. Apparently they were drunk when they saw him play.

Wouldn't that be Lidstrom since he's the team's Swedish scout?

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Wouldn't that be Lidstrom since he's the team's Swedish scout?

Can't remember who said he was a good player and the Wings should sign him. If it was Nick, I have more respect for him as a drinker. I never knew someone so smart about the game of hockey could get bombed enough to recommend Sammy to the brass.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Wings_Dynasty

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Wouldn't that be Lidstrom since he's the team's Swedish scout?

No thats not how it went. Holland talked to the Swedish players about Samuelsson's game. They all agreed that he played some decent hockey. Apparently (according to the Detroit media), Zetterberg said something to the effect of "you can put him on my line."

Ironically, Sammy did play on Hanks line. And Both Hank and Sammy (and Homer) had career years that season.

But one good season does not a good player make.

[Sebastian 0]

He ended up on the Wings because some Swedish players on the team said he was good. Apparently they were drunk when they saw him play.

Apparently they were past drunk and got to totally wasted

[Kp-Wings 3]

I was going to make a thread on this myself, but never got around to it. Nevertheless, I share the exact same feelings of Samuelsson that everyone in this thread has stated... except for the ones actually defending him. Those people I don't quite see eye-to-eye with, if you know what I'm saying.

Can't remember who said he was a good player and the Wings should sign him. If it was Nick, I have more respect for him as a drinker. I never knew someone so smart about the game of hockey could get bombed enough to recommend Sammy to the brass.

It was Zetterberg who put in the recommendation, if I remember correctly. I had seen articles about it in the Detroit Papers back in the summer of 2005, and Zetterberg's name was mentioned quite a bit.

The Wings management seems to take whatever he says into focus. He recommended the Wings sign Downey as well (which, was a good decision), and maybe a few other guys, but I'm not sure. Hopefully Zetterberg puts a word in with Holland this summer to sign some secondary scoring, along with a physical defenseman (namely, re-sign Stuart, among other things).

Ironically, Sammy did play on Hanks line. And Both Hank and Sammy (and Homer) had career years that season.

Didn't he play on a line with Zetterberg and Shanny, or something of that nature in his first season here? I can't remember exactly who it was, but I know he was playing with two guys that could easily make him look like a top 6 forward. Heck, anyone could be a top 6 forward if they were playing on a line with Zetterberg. Just look at how much better guys like Franzen and Filppula get when they play on a line with him.

But one good season does not a good player make.

Exactly. Someone should try telling that to the idiots in this thread that defend the guy because he scored 20 goals one year. Jason Williams scored 20 goals once as well, and people were clamoring for his demise here in Detroit, so I don't see how Samulesson should be any different.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Kp-Wings 3]

double post

Edited March 18, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[Sebastian 0]

I was going to make a thread on this myself, but never got around to it. Nevertheless, I share the exact same feelings of Samuelsson that everyone in this thread has stated... except for the ones actually defending him. Those people I don't quite see eye-to-eye with, if you know what I'm saying.

It was Zetterberg who put in the recommendation, if I remember correctly. I had seen articles about it in the Detroit Papers back in the summer of 2005, and Zetterberg's name was mentioned quite a bit.

The Wings management seems to take whatever he says into focus. He recommended the Wings sign Downey as well (which, was a good decision), and maybe a few other guys, but I'm not sure. Hopefully Zetterberg puts a word in with Holland this summer to sign some secondary scoring, along with a physical defenseman (namely, re-sign Stuart, among other things).

And hopefully Z tells Holly to let Sammy go ASAP, cuz he just blows

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Honestly, if I were Hudler I would start shooting every damn puck that comes my way. Obviously Babs likes it, so what the hell. Shoot away, hog shots, ignore open players who are ten times the hockey player... It worked for Sammy. Then again, a guy like Huds can probably hit the upper corner or anywhere else and probably does not have as automatic reflex to shoot AT the goalie instead of where the goalie is not. Jesus, if Sammy is going to do this all the fricking time does he at least practice his aim? Is he out on the ******* ice three hours a day honing his accuracy?