bellarina 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 http://www.nhl.com/impact/march08_issue.html So far ahead that they decided to start the top 10 after him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gordie Howe hat trick 110 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 How come Pronger isn't on that list? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gordie Howe hat trick 110 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 How come Pronger isn't on that list? True, he is an upstanding player who would never ever so anything detremental to the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redwingsfan18 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 that is oh so true Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Reminds me of a thread that had alot of people picking Messier over Stevie. Not to knock Messier but.... Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Stevie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I saw this article yesterday on there. It's a good one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted March 17, 2008 http://www.nhl.com/impact/march08_issue.html So far ahead that they decided to start the top 10 after him. I find it interesting that in the Crosby article both Yzerman and Bowman think Crosby is and will do fine as the Captain of the Pens. Why is that interesting? Because of the many comments made by folks on this very board that somehow always revert back to Crosby is a baby, doesn't know how to lead, is too young for the C, etc..... Well, Yzerman and Bowman are 2 guys who would know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theman19 47 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I find it interesting that in the Crosby article both Yzerman and Bowman think Crosby is and will do fine as the Captain of the Pens. Why is that interesting? Because of the many comments made by folks on this very board that somehow always revert back to Crosby is a baby, doesn't know how to lead, is too young for the C, etc..... Well, Yzerman and Bowman are 2 guys who would know. cause right now he is a baby. He still does stupid things from time to time and doesn't always act like the leader he should. But he's young and beginning to show traits all great leaders have. Lets not forget before the 97 cup, people where questioning steve's leadership ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edicius 3,269 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Wow...this is quite possibly one of the first times I've seen a media outlet (and from NHL.com, to boot) actually list Yzerman ABOVE Messier. It's about damn time. And I've made no bones about my distaste for Crosby...but that said, I think as he grows up, he can grow into a great leader. Right now, I'd venture to say he's just the obvious choice for the team as he's the face of the franchise, but not quite leadership material yet. Then again, neither was Stevie Y at his age...and look where he ended up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Crosby is a phenominal player. I think that with any great player that there will always be those who look for reasons to dislike him. The better a player you are the bigger the target. I agree Crosby was a bit of a whiner in his first 2 seasons. But do we really hear him whine anymore? I don't. He's a very young player and that's what most young players do. I love Yzerman but we have all seen him whine his ass off with the refs. I don't know if Crosby will develop into a real leader for his team but I think he has the potential to do so. If Bowman and Yzerman both think he will then odds are he will be that leader. They know much more than me or anyone else on this board does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishtemper14+25 11 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 exactly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Wow...this is quite possibly one of the first times I've seen a media outlet (and from NHL.com, to boot) actually list Yzerman ABOVE Messier. It's about damn time.And I've made no bones about my distaste for Crosby...but that said, I think as he grows up, he can grow into a great leader. Right now, I'd venture to say he's just the obvious choice for the team as he's the face of the franchise, but not quite leadership material yet. Then again, neither was Stevie Y at his age...and look where he ended up. Agreed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted March 17, 2008 cause right now he is a baby. He still does stupid things from time to time and doesn't always act like the leader he should. But he's young and beginning to show traits all great leaders have. Lets not forget before the 97 cup, people where questioning steve's leadership ability. And those people were wrong back then too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 When you think of team captain the first name that comes to mind is Stevie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Yet the leadership award is named after Messier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller76 463 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I think they should have retired the "C" that the Captains wear the night Steve Yzermans number went to the rafters. Steve was the only captain to do so much for the league and the game of hockey. I know Messier was Messier, but I hate to break it to people, but he was no Steve Yzerman. I think the "C" should be off of jerseys and replaced with an "L" for leader or something. There was and only will be one Captain and that was Stevie Y! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theman19 47 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 And those people were wrong back then too. Hindsight is 20/20 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I think they should have retired the "C" that the Captains wear the night Steve Yzermans number went to the rafters. Steve was the only captain to do so much for the league and the game of hockey. I know Messier was Messier, but I hate to break it to people, but he was no Steve Yzerman. I think the "C" should be off of jerseys and replaced with an "L" for leader or something. There was and only will be one Captain and that was Stevie Y! I think the Mitch Albom quote summed it up best and it used to be my sig, it was something like, there will be many captain, but only one will have "THE" in front of it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bellarina 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) Messiers leadership was influenced more by the media than anything else. Real team Captains stick with their teams no matter what (ala Stevie, ala Sundin), Messier changed teams a few times. Messier was a great leader but there are many ahead of him. Stevie<--Sacrificed body, and personal points.(had he not sacrificed his production, all of Gordies records would have been shattered). Maurice Rocket Richard<--Sacrificed body, and relentless humiliation. Patrick Roy <-- Did not sacrifce anything, but when he was on, the team always followed. Mats Sundin<-- Potential move that could make him a Champion. I hate to say it but Scott Stevens<--Sacrificed body. All these guys sacrificed More money, their Health, glory, and in Stevies case was asked to give up his point production in order for the team to acheive greatness. Yes, Messier did it accomplish alot and sacrificed nothing. Messier did make a prediction once that his team would win and he guaranteed it and he provided it. Messier was put on teams that were stacked, pasted a C on his jersey, and asked to lead. (no one else could have done that) Edited March 17, 2008 by bellarina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hatethedrake! Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Messiers leadership was influenced more by the media than anything else. Real team Captains stick with their teams no matter what (ala Stevie, ala Sundin), Messier changed teams a few times. Messier was a great leader but there are many ahead of him. Stevie<--Sacrificed body, and personal points.(had he not sacrificed his production, all of Gordies records would have been shattered). Maurice Rocket Richard<--Sacrificed body, and relentless humiliation. Patrick Roy <-- Did not sacrifce anything, but when he was on, the team always followed. Mats Sundin<-- Potential move that could make him a Champion. I hate to say it but Scott Stevens<--Sacrificed body. All these guys sacrificed More money, their Health, glory, and in Stevies case was asked to give up his point production in order for the team to acheive greatness. Yes, Messier did it accomplish alot and sacrificed nothing. Messier did make a prediction once that his team would win and he guaranteed it and he provided it. Messier was put on teams that were stacked, pasted a C on his jersey, and asked to lead. (no one else could have done that) I totally disagree. Mark Messier is the best leader over the past 30 years. While Gretzky was a great player for those Oilers teams, it was Messier who was the real leader. Heck the Oilers won a Cup in 1990 without Gretzky. They even eliminated Gretzky's Kings en route to beating the Bruins in the SCF. Messier put the Rangers on his back and was the difference in them winning the Cup in 1994. Before that, the Rangers always choked in the playoffs. As much as I love what Steve Yzerman did for the Red Wings, Mark Messier was the better leader. I mean 6 Cups speak for itself and he was a key part in every one of them. But I don't have to sell Messier, or Yzerman for that matter. Their respective careers speak for themselves. Messier in his prime was an unstoppable force. People recall his last seasons when he was washed up and hung around too long. Which is too bad. But I recall how great he was on those Oilers teams and in 94 with the Rangers. Awesome player. Awesome leader. He made those teams great. Many players over the years have been on stacked teams but they don't make the impact Messier did. Just because he was not a Red Wing does not make him any less of a player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cirov19 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) That's perfect.. I really don't like Mike Peca though, and I absolutely do not think he should've made it onto that list.. Edited March 17, 2008 by cirov19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I find it interesting that in the Crosby article both Yzerman and Bowman think Crosby is and will do fine as the Captain of the Pens. Why is that interesting? Because of the many comments made by folks on this very board that somehow always revert back to Crosby is a baby, doesn't know how to lead, is too young for the C, etc..... Well, Yzerman and Bowman are 2 guys who would know. Yeah. Because Bowman and Yzerman are going to call out Crosby as a bitchy whiner to the public media. And I dont even have an opinion on Crosbys captaincy. Its just stupid to think that Yzerman and Bowman, or anyone else in the league with that kind of respect, would call out a player like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 Am I the only that finds it funny Gretz was on that list. I am not saying anything about his abilities to play the game, but was he really that great of a leader. And doesn't having Messier around kind of make him a null and void leader. I mean Shanny and Lids were behind Yzerman when he led but I wouldn't put them in the top category of leaders of all times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller76 463 Report post Posted March 17, 2008 I totally disagree. Mark Messier is the best leader over the past 30 years. While Gretzky was a great player for those Oilers teams, it was Messier who was the real leader. Heck the Oilers won a Cup in 1990 without Gretzky. They even eliminated Gretzky's Kings en route to beating the Bruins in the SCF. Messier put the Rangers on his back and was the difference in them winning the Cup in 1994. Before that, the Rangers always choked in the playoffs. As much as I love what Steve Yzerman did for the Red Wings, Mark Messier was the better leader. I mean 6 Cups speak for itself and he was a key part in every one of them. But I don't have to sell Messier, or Yzerman for that matter. Their respective careers speak for themselves. Messier in his prime was an unstoppable force. People recall his last seasons when he was washed up and hung around too long. Which is too bad. But I recall how great he was on those Oilers teams and in 94 with the Rangers. Awesome player. Awesome leader. He made those teams great. Many players over the years have been on stacked teams but they don't make the impact Messier did. Just because he was not a Red Wing does not make him any less of a player. I have no doubt that Messier deserves a lot of credit for his sucessful career and the success of the teams he played on, but he did play with the likes of stacked teams. He reminded me of T.O. jumping from team to team trying to find the big trophy. And I hate to compare Messier to T.O., cause T.O. is a p.o.s! But when following his career, I felt he did that. Yzerman on the other hand stayed with 1 team, his team. I am old enough to remember watching the Redwings through the 80's. We were not a very good team, but this guy stuck it out and it paid off big for him. The dude is an icon. And you have to expect a little bias when you are on this site comparing Redwings players to others, but Yzerman needs no special bias or consideration. Just look at his career. And look at him as a man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
