Ovechkin's Hart chances

[Earthhuman 8]

Come on Mack. I usually see you post some intelligent stuff on here. This ain't your best. To say Malkin is the SOLE reason is crazy. He had plenty more support than AO. Sykora, Malone, Conklin and Whitney among others all stepped it up when they had to.

Furthermore, the Caps could very well make the playoffs and the topic of the thread becomes moot.

Don't forget Gonchar, the second best pointer-getter in the NHL, or Staal, or Hossa.

[toby91_ca 620]

But of those 7 times, 6 different goalies have won. Only 7 dmen have won it.

And IMO, Bobby and Marty are more important to their teams success than Lidstrom is to the Wings.

So.....still, less goalies have won.

You are now adding another variable as to why Lidstrom is not on your list. Previously, you stated that the ONLY reason was that he is a defenseman.

[Doggy 130]

Don't forget Gonchar, the second best pointer-getter in the NHL, or Staal, or Hossa.

Gonchar didn't step it up after Crosby got hurt. He was just as good.

Staal has pretty much had a shocking year.

Hossa has been there like a month.

None of them pertained to my argument.

[imisssergei 0]

So.....still, less goalies have won.

You are now adding another variable as to why Lidstrom is not on your list. Previously, you stated that the ONLY reason was that he is a defenseman.

No, as I stand by what I said before. I left Lidstrom off my original list only because he is a dman.

I was trying to shed some light on the goaltenders, and how important they are to their teams.

Goalies have been awarded the Hart less times, but an equal number of different dmen and goalies have won the award, making it more likely for a goalie to win the award than a dman not named Orr or Shore.

[imisssergei 0]

Gonchar didn't step it up after Crosby got hurt. He was just as good.

Staal has pretty much had a shocking year.

Hossa has been there like a month.

None of them pertained to my argument.

Neither did Malkin.

[toby91_ca 620]

Neither did Malkin.

Are you serious????? His ppg went from something like 1.15 to 1.75.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Ovy shouldn't win unless his team makes the playoffs.

Malkin should get heavy consideration, as should Lidstrom.

I honestly have trouble seeing how it could be any besides those 3 this year.

[imisssergei 0]

Are you serious????? His ppg went from something like 1.15 to 1.75.

Malkin wasn't the force he is before Crosby went down. He has really stepped up his game to another level.

[eva unit zero 271]

Ovy shouldn't win unless his team makes the playoffs.

Malkin should get heavy consideration, as should Lidstrom.

I honestly have trouble seeing how it could be any besides those 3 this year.

Brodeur should be nominated alongside Ovechkin and Lidstrom, IMO.

[toby91_ca 620]

Malkin wasn't the force he is before Crosby went down. He has really stepped up his game to another level.

But you just said he hadn't stepped up his game after Crosby went down.....I'm confused.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Brodeur is a top 5 in every major goaltending category, and he is on a team with a fairly mediocre lineup. They don't really have defense anymore either. He is really holding his team together, and quietly at that. He is THE reason that the Devils are a good team, same can be said about Thornton and the Sharks. If the Caps don't make it to the playoffs, you might as well hand Brodeur the Hart trophy. That's the way I see it anyway.

[imisssergei 0]

But you just said he hadn't stepped up his game after Crosby went down.....I'm confused.

Heh, that's my bad. I misread that post, I thought that it said he didn't step it up until after Crosby went down...

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Brodeur is a top 5 in every major goaltending category, and he is on a team with a fairly mediocre lineup. They don't really have defense anymore either. He is really holding his team together, and quietly at that. He is THE reason that the Devils are a good team, same can be said about Thornton and the Sharks. If the Caps don't make it to the playoffs, you might as well hand Brodeur the Hart trophy. That's the way I see it anyway.

Brodeur has played great, but i'd still put Malkin, Lidstrom and Ovy ahead of him. He's playing on a team that plays a stifling defensive system in the wide open east... Obviously they've lost a lot of talent, but the system itself is pretty resilient, especially when you have players who know how to play in it.

I think NJ would probably be in the playoffs if they had a good goalie instead of an incredible one, in other words. On the other hand, Pitt would probably be on the bubble if it weren't for Malkin's effort after Crosby was injured, the Caps would be nowhere without Ovy, and Detroit is much more dependent upon Lidstrom than anyone really realizes. There is a reason that one of our worst losing streaks of the season took place during the short time he was out.

[eva unit zero 271]

Brodeur has played great, but i'd still put Malkin, Lidstrom and Ovy ahead of him. He's playing on a team that plays a stifling defensive system in the wide open east... Obviously they've lost a lot of talent, but the system itself is pretty resilient, especially when you have players who know how to play in it.

I think NJ would probably be in the playoffs if they had a good goalie instead of an incredible one, in other words. On the other hand, Pitt would probably be on the bubble if it weren't for Malkin's effort after Crosby was injured, the Caps would be nowhere without Ovy, and Detroit is much more dependent upon Lidstrom than anyone really realizes. There is a reason that one of our worst losing streaks of the season took place during the short time he was out.

If you don't think New Jersey would be on the bubble with a 'good' goalie rather than Brodeur...that only means you think Brodeur is overrated. New Jersey is barely not on the bubble as is...if you downgraded Brodeur to a lower tier starter like say...Olaf Kolzig or Martin Gerber? They'd be well out of the playoffs.

Pittsburgh would still be close to the #8 spot had they lost every single game against .500+ teams while Crosby was out.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Brodeur has played great, but i'd still put Malkin, Lidstrom and Ovy ahead of him. He's playing on a team that plays a stifling defensive system in the wide open east... Obviously they've lost a lot of talent, but the system itself is pretty resilient, especially when you have players who know how to play in it.

I think NJ would probably be in the playoffs if they had a good goalie instead of an incredible one, in other words. On the other hand, Pitt would probably be on the bubble if it weren't for Malkin's effort after Crosby was injured, the Caps would be nowhere without Ovy, and Detroit is much more dependent upon Lidstrom than anyone really realizes. There is a reason that one of our worst losing streaks of the season took place during the short time he was out.

I agree with what you said, but pretty much half of the losing streak did happen with Lidstrom in the lineup. It was losing Kronwall and Cleary that did a number, whether it was coincidentally or whatever, when them two were out was when we started the streak.

[toby91_ca 620]

I agree with what you said, but pretty much half of the losing streak did happen with Lidstrom in the lineup. It was losing Kronwall and Cleary that did a number, whether it was coincidentally or whatever, when them two were out was when we started the streak.

More than half of the losing streak happened with Lidstrom in the lineup.

[Opie 308]

That is the thing with this team it isn't really a one man show, WAS loses AO they are toast!!!!!!!!!!!

Det, it has to be a multitude of injuries, a couple of forwards and the top 4 D will usually hurt any team though, I have to admit!

[toby91_ca 620]

That is the thing with this team it isn't really a one man show, WAS loses AO they are toast!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing with saying WAS would completely fall apart with AO is that it is very easy to say, but you never really know unless that happens.

Teams have done surprisingly well without star players. It just goes to show how much of a team sport hockey really is. Obviously, losing a star player is going to hurt, especially someone like AO, but no one player can win games for you. In basketball, one player can make a huge difference, in hockey, not quite as much.

[Opie 308]

I don't really need to see AO go down to know that if WAS lost his

77GP 61G 46A 107PTS +/- 24(On that team wow) 21 PPG 15 PPA 36PPP 23 ATOI They would be screwed!!!

The fact he hasn't gotten hurt is a credit to him, and a blessing to WAS.

WAS as a team has 225 g AO has over a 1/4 of those goals.

I think that team has a ton of potential for the future, Semin, Backstrom, Green, Laich, Flieschman are all showing signs of decent skill to come.

But AO has over a 1/4 of the teams goals.

Comparatively the wings have 244 g on the season, Zetterberg has 41 of them, now before you go saying he has more talent around him and doesn't have to do as much scoring to make sure his team wins, that is the point. Z has Dats with 31, and 4 others with 19+ goals. AO Has Semin at 23 and then one player at 19. Detroit has almost as many guys with 20 goals as WAS has with double digit goals.

Screw ppg this guy is almost a gpg player.

NOW after saying that I have the same feeling about him as I did Arod, if his team doesn't make the playoffs it is all for not. I truly believe that in order to be an MVP you have to at least get your team an 8 seed.

This guy could be the greatest scorer of all time, but if he doesn't ever make it to the playoffs (his fault of Leonsis' fault) his career will be a grave dissapointment.

Edit: Clarity

Edited March 26, 2008 by Opie

[Zion 93]

He is THE reason that the Devils are a good team, same can be said about Thornton and the Sharks. If the Caps don't make it to the playoffs, you might as well hand Brodeur the Hart trophy. That's the way I see it anyway.

I think Nabokov can be praised just as much as Thornton for the Sharks' success, especially when they weren't scoring.

[Opie 308]

The difference between Nabby and Broduer for me is Joe Thornton, who does Marty have in front of him that comes any where near Thornton's ability?

[eva unit zero 271]

The thing with saying WAS would completely fall apart with AO is that it is very easy to say, but you never really know unless that happens.

Teams have done surprisingly well without star players. It just goes to show how much of a team sport hockey really is. Obviously, losing a star player is going to hurt, especially someone like AO, but no one player can win games for you. In basketball, one player can make a huge difference, in hockey, not quite as much.

Teams like Washington are the ones that are the most affected by losing a star player. Teams where they are on the playoff bubble with their star in the lineup, and most of the games they win come when their star has a good night against a lower-tier team. With Pittsburgh, Detroit, or other top teams...if the team's best player has an off night or an injury, there are other players who can step it up and fill in for a game or two. With a team like Washington...Ovechkin goes down and there is nobody capable of filling the void even for a short term.

[eva unit zero 271]

The difference between Nabby and Broduer for me is Joe Thornton, who does Marty have in front of him that comes any where near Thornton's ability?

Nabby's team is better defensively. Brodeur has a lower GAA despite facing more shots.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

And now??? Does he deserve it now all you "no play-offs = no Hart" people?

[BeeRYCE 2]

100% chance he will win it.