Ovechkin's Hart chances

[eva unit zero 271]

Ya know, I have been kind of against the AO for Hart thing from the get go. I am a stickler for at least making the playoff's. On this point I totally agree with you, it is unfair to say that Malkin deserves it over AO. The Pens have a far better team then the Caps, far better. Malkin did rise to the occasion but not like AO did for the year.

Also, I like AO. Probably the most exciting player to watch on the ice at this time. I think he is very talented and does deserve recognition for his accomplishments this season. I am just not sure it is Hart quality. He has 60 goals, but is weak in the defensive side. Also I know everyone disagree's with this point but I think it is essential for the MVP to come from a playoff team. The Most Valuable Player should be able to not only relish in his own accomplishments but also elevate the team as well. If it were not HALF the league that obtains a playoff spot it could be justified.

All of this may be a moot point because the Caps have a real chance at getting into the playoff's. If the do grab that last spot, by all means he gets MVP. IF they can make it out of the first round then there is no doubt in my mind. The thing I am having trouble with is deciding who else deserves the Hart. Ofcourse with my craziness for the red and white I believe Lidstrom and possibly Datsyuk deserve at least a little consideration. Also if it is a great player making a bad team better then Nash should get some thought. I have really been racking my brain and just cannot think of some realistic options.

I also think there is a conspiracy against AO. The NHL wants Sid to be the number one guy. Sid got an ankle injury and it is all NHL network could wrap thier mouths around. AO hits 60 goals and he barely gets a five spot. So AO is already against the world.

Datsyuk does not deserve consideration...he's probably the 3rd place candidate on his TEAM.

As far as Ovechkin...Washington's final game this season could conceivably be the difference between making the playoffs and missing them. What happens if the Caps are in the playoffs as of game 81, but Ovechkin is hurt and the Caps lose game 82 by a scored of 2-1? Does the fact that his team losing one game, and costing them a playoff spot, while he was NOT in the lineup mean the difference between him deserving the Hart and not deserving it?

As far as defense..Malkin is probably better than Ovechkin defensively. But just being good offensively and better defensively doesn't make him the more deserving of MVP. If that were the case, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky, and many others would never have won a Hart. Ovechkin is easily better than those two defensively, and is the most dominant offensive player this season.

Mario Lemieux in 1998 led the league in goals and points on a team that finished last in their division and 9th in the conference, and missed the playoffs by two points. Ovechkin is in the same spot with the Caps, with the same kind of huge margin over the second place scorer in goals. Why should Lemieux get it in 1988 and Ovechkin not this year?

[DaKineMaui 8]

The Pens without Crosby have a better lineup than the Caps with Ovechkin. So you consider that Ovechkin has outperformed Malkin with significantly worse teammates.

Hate to agree but, as of post time, AO has 106 pts. The Caps have only one other player to even break 50 pts so far this season.?!.?!.??

For those of you who say he should 'carry his team' to the next level - he cannot skate every shift. There's no rule against it, but I'm pretty sure even AO might get tired.

My hat is off to him for making this playoff chase/next level.

Go Washington Ovechkins! Get that 8 spot!

aloha

[Swede40 0]

Ovechkin

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Datsyuk does not deserve consideration...he's probably the 3rd place candidate on his TEAM.

Why would Datsyuk be the 3rd best candidate? Why couldn't an argument be made that he could be the 2nd best candidate behind Nick?

Who leads the team in points? Who leads the league in +/- amongst forwards? Who leads the league in takeaways? Who can be counted on to be in the lineup night in and night out and doesn't disappear when Zetterberg gets hurt?

I'm not saying Pav is better than Z or vice versa. An argument could be made that Datsyuk is having the better season than Zetterberg and could be the 2nd best choice as MVP on the Wings.

PS: Dats is now +39 and only 1 behind Nick for best in the league. Oh yeah, and he passed Lecavalier for 4th in the league in points. Dats is only 1 point behind Iginla for 3rd overall in the league. Nobody is going to catch Malkin and AO so its really a matter of who rounds out the top 5.

Where's the Datsyuk love? Nobody has scored this many points in a Wings sweater in forever. All the talk about Z winning the art ross and this, that and the other. Where is the Datsyuk love? Where are the Datsyuk threads about how great he's playing?

Anybody notice how well Dats is playing defensively, stealing pucks and winning games, burying empty netters, backchecking his butt off and most often times being the 1st forward back.

WHERE IS THE DATSYUK LOVE?

Edited March 23, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[IceMunkee 15]

givem me a break, you failed his challenge because you are a blinded homer. the wings are my squad and lidstrom is a fav of mine so no disrespect to either cause i'm a homer too but i'm not blind. lidstrom won't even finish top 3 in mvp voting rightfully so. he can take home the norris again though. first off there are alot of defensmen on teams that play nearly half the game and are part of good defenses. and to say that it was just him when the wings were on the losing streak is dumb, zetterberg was out at times, maltby, draper, hasek, holmstrom, kronwall, just about everyone at times was hurt. detroit has zetterberg, datysuk, holmstrom, hasek, osgood etc, aside from lidstrom, all of which are very important and half were all stars this year. to me, zetterberg and or datysuk are almost as important to the team as lidstrom is. the two night in and night out are relied apon for our offense. ovechkin goes down for say 20 games, and i highly doubt they are going to win much. not taking away anything from backstrom and semin and viktor kozlov but they aren't going to put up numbers like either Z or dats would. nylander has been out for a while and they have still been winning. their captain chris clark who is very important to the caps has been out almost all year. the caps have depth too, but not explosive depth. backstrom is around 40pts behind ovechkin in points and he's played all season. malkin is around 30 pts ahead of crosby, but crosby has been hurt. if crosby had been playing all this time, he'd be leading the way, and we wouldn't be talking about malkin as much and i would say malkin would have around 80pts right now instead of the 98 or whatever he has. zetterberg and datsyuk have similar stats and are among the top 10 in scoring i think, lidstrom is number 1 in pts among dmen, so it's clear who's more valuable. some nights if not not 50% of the nights, ovechkin carried the team to victory one way or the other whether it's scoring, pumping up the team with his celebrations or making a big hit.

i've said this before but i honestly can't believe this is even an issue. those of you who think you MUST make the playoffs to win the hart need to wake up. i garauntee ovie wins the hart by a landslide. brodeur possibly 2nd and malkin 3rd. the devils with almost any other goalie aren't in the playoffs most seasons, they just don't score enough goals., and they don't have the stacked defense they once had.

icemunkee, you think malkin's defesensive abilities are top notch then over ovechkin's? i don't think so. ovie is a +23, that's pretty impressive. he is trusted enough to go on the ice when the other team pulls the goalie for the extra man. i'm sure it has to do with his explosiveness and want for the puck to score the empty net, but you also have to be responsible in that situation. i mean if a forward has to have every quality to win the hart, that's being alittle over the top. i mean how is that fair when goalies just have to stop the puck right? should they have to have more than 4 assists and score a goal. of course i'm just being sarcastic but save the defensive side for the selke trophy, that's why it exists. plus i don't think there is a conspiracy against ovie, he gets tons of media coverage.

My man, I think I either you misinterpureted what I was saying or my written word has mislead. I was agree ing with Mr. Eva that Malkin does not deserve a look over AO or really even consideration. Also when you score 60 goals your going to have a high +/- because out of 60 goals and 106 pts there are some bound to be PP's. Lets not be blind he is put on the ice facing the extra man for 2 reason's. The Caps have very few options. His speed will result in the empty net goal...Almost all of the time. Now I feel because we disagree you pick everything I write apart and put your twist on things. I like your views but to think that AO gets alot of media attention when compared. Crosby's hig ankle sprain was the biggest story of the year for some feeds. AO's sixtieth got coverage but no where near the high ankle sprain and the Pens without Crosby saga...

Also if you ae going to consider Broduer for the Hart, then you MUST consier the Iron Man Nabakov. With out him starting every game for the Sharks they would not be as good. You want to talk Mot Valuable Player we need to talk Nabby. A team that rely's on one player, there you have it. Yes the Sharks have depth an great players but no team has had todepend on someone as much as the Sharks have Nabby, and they not only made the playoff's but made a tear to the top!!! For those who think goalies should not be considered need to... wake up?

Edited March 23, 2008 by IceMunkee

[IceMunkee 15]

Datsyuk does not deserve consideration...he's probably the 3rd place candidate on his TEAM.

As far as Ovechkin...Washington's final game this season could conceivably be the difference between making the playoffs and missing them. What happens if the Caps are in the playoffs as of game 81, but Ovechkin is hurt and the Caps lose game 82 by a scored of 2-1? Does the fact that his team losing one game, and costing them a playoff spot, while he was NOT in the lineup mean the difference between him deserving the Hart and not deserving it?

As far as defense..Malkin is probably better than Ovechkin defensively. But just being good offensively and better defensively doesn't make him the more deserving of MVP. If that were the case, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky, and many others would never have won a Hart. Ovechkin is easily better than those two defensively, and is the most dominant offensive player this season.

Mario Lemieux in 1998 led the league in goals and points on a team that finished last in their division and 9th in the conference, and missed the playoffs by two points. Ovechkin is in the same spot with the Caps, with the same kind of huge margin over the second place scorer in goals. Why should Lemieux get it in 1988 and Ovechkin not this year?

I was agreeing with you on Malkin. I appearantly mistyped or something. I reread it and it makes sense. When people disagree they tend to skim over there post and look for the assualt points, I do it accidently all the time. As far as Datsyuk, I would like to know who deserve's it above him? Hopefully one would be Lids, other then that I cannot think of one.... Atleast that I could not attempt to argue.

[

Why would Datsyuk be the 3rd best candidate? Why couldn't an argument be made that he could be the 2nd best candidate behind Nick?

Who leads the team in points? Who leads the league in +/- amongst forwards? Who leads the league in takeaways? Who can be counted on to be in the lineup night in and night out and doesn't disappear when Zetterberg gets hurt?

I'm not saying Pav is better than Z or vice versa. An argument could be made that Datsyuk is having the better season than Zetterberg and could be the 2nd best choice as MVP on the Wings.

PS: Dats is now +39 and only 1 behind Nick for best in the league. Oh yeah, and he passed Lecavalier for 4th in the league in points. Dats is only 1 point behind Iginla for 3rd overall in the league. Nobody is going to catch Malkin and AO so its really a matter of who rounds out the top 5.

Where's the Datsyuk love? Nobody has scored this many points in a Wings sweater in forever. All the talk about Z winning the art ross and this, that and the other. Where is the Datsyuk love? Where are the Datsyuk threads about how great he's playing?

Anybody notice how well Dats is playing defensively, stealing pucks and winning games, burying empty netters, backchecking his butt off and most often times being the 1st forward back.

WHERE IS THE DATSYUK LOVE?

Amen. Great post. Dats is the all around guy. Defense, offense, and even goaltender (kidding). He can play multiple roles dangler, playmaker, defensive forward, offensive forward, and hell he even lays some body ever now and again. A super all around player. Sometimes it is just the glitter and glam that gets all the love. You have to have 60 goals to even get a glance I suppose. The Hart is also only for offensive players too. So don't get any ideas Lidstrom... LOL! Just kidding around guys.

[IceMunkee 15]

this is becoming ridiculous honestly. there are so many threads about this, i'm going to go as far as saying if you don't think ovechkin deserves the hart this year playoffs or not, than you don't know hockey. bash me all you want i don't care, ovechkin will easily win the hart. you should be embarrased of yourself if you think someone else should get it, it's not even close and don't honestly understand why this is even up for discussion at this point.

as someone else pointed out in the other ovechkin thread, that teams are so close to eachother for playoffs, within 5 pts or so, the caps are out by 1 pt right now. so are you willing to tell me that if the caps miss the playoffs by 1 pt, that he doesn't deserve it. that's just stupid. i could go on and on why he wins it and why others don't, but if it's not obvious, i feel sorry for you

Ya know, I just seen this briliant post of yours and had to comment. Your a little ridiculus, first your just whining cause this thread trashed your other thread that both were made to discuss our opinions of AO and the Hart. I am very happy that you know all about everything and any one else that has a differant opinion knows nothing of nothing. You should be embarrased of your self mini-hitler. Those were his views, if your not like me you should die. Your a little over the top. YES I AM WILLING TO TELL YOU IF THE CAPS DO NOT MAKE IT he should not get the Hart. i am stupid, i am sorry. I feel sorry for you to bud, because you are a self rightous fool. You should start a new thread that says I know everything about hockey. Come in here and agree with my views or I will attempt to make fun of you and send you to the gas chambers..... Then have a bunch of little yellow smiley's with Nazi symbols at the bottom saluting your every fact about hockey.

[DenJ91 0]

Ya know, I just seen this briliant post of yours and had to comment. Your a little ridiculus, first your just whining cause this thread trashed your other thread that both were made to discuss our opinions of AO and the Hart. I am very happy that you know all about everything and any one else that has a differant opinion knows nothing of nothing. You should be embarrased of your self mini-hitler. Those were his views, if your not like me you should die. Your a little over the top. YES I AM WILLING TO TELL YOU IF THE CAPS DO NOT MAKE IT he should not get the Hart. i am stupid, i am sorry. I feel sorry for you to bud, because you are a self rightous fool. You should start a new thread that says I know everything about hockey. Come in here and agree with my views or I will attempt to make fun of you and send you to the gas chambers..... Then have a bunch of little yellow smiley's with Nazi symbols at the bottom saluting your every fact about hockey.

dude you need to chill out, you just called me mini hitler, i don't think that's funny or smart on your part. i'm sorry you're one of the few to fail to see why ovie deserves the hart hands down. i feel sorry for you, if you wanna make this kinda of personal attack on me, then it's on, cause i never attacked you like that. and i'm glad that you called yourself stupid, now i don't have too. this started out friendly, but you just can't handle the fact that i called you out on some of your points. one could say i do the same, but i would never make personal insults or refer to someone as hitler and think it's funny. just makes you look bad.

if you wanna call truce that's fine, i don't honestly care about you and your opinion anymore. i'm sure we'll have our differences from now on.

oh and nabokov?? now your just being silly again. nothing taken away from nabokov but even if they had toskala still in net, the sharks would still be a powerhouse. they are just such a good team overall. end of that story

i'm a very opinionated person, i don't enjoy arguing with people, sometimes when i try to explain my side of things i guess i come off alittle strong and perhaps insulting. i never try to make it that way but it can easily be taken that way so sorry about that to some of you.

what would be the point of forums if people always agreed with eachother. i never said anyone had to agree with me even if it comes off like that. this is just one topic i fail to understand how anyone could challange the agrument of ovie for the hart. eva and others pointed out many great agruments for the case, go call them stupid now, or i guess you're just worried about me cause i put your name in my replies. i mean i knew i'd get some crap for my last post, which is why i said "go ahead and bash me", but i didn't expect hitler remarks, that's just immature.

Edited March 23, 2008 by DenJ91

[Guest paveldatsukthenextsavard]

givem me a break, you failed his challenge because you are a blinded homer. the wings are my squad and lidstrom is a fav of mine so no disrespect to either cause i'm a homer too but i'm not blind. lidstrom won't even finish top 3 in mvp voting rightfully so. he can take home the norris again though. first off there are alot of defensmen on teams that play nearly half the game and are part of good defenses. and to say that it was just him when the wings were on the losing streak is dumb, zetterberg was out at times, maltby, draper, hasek, holmstrom, kronwall, just about everyone at times was hurt. detroit has zetterberg, datysuk, holmstrom, hasek, osgood etc, aside from lidstrom, all of which are very important and half were all stars this year. to me, zetterberg and or datysuk are almost as important to the team as lidstrom is. the two night in and night out are relied apon for our offense. ovechkin goes down for say 20 games, and i highly doubt they are going to win much. not taking away anything from backstrom and semin and viktor kozlov but they aren't going to put up numbers like either Z or dats would. nylander has been out for a while and they have still been winning. their captain chris clark who is very important to the caps has been out almost all year. the caps have depth too, but not explosive depth. backstrom is around 40pts behind ovechkin in points and he's played all season. malkin is around 30 pts ahead of crosby, but crosby has been hurt. if crosby had been playing all this time, he'd be leading the way, and we wouldn't be talking about malkin as much and i would say malkin would have around 80pts right now instead of the 98 or whatever he has. zetterberg and datsyuk have similar stats and are among the top 10 in scoring i think, lidstrom is number 1 in pts among dmen, so it's clear who's more valuable. some nights if not not 50% of the nights, ovechkin carried the team to victory one way or the other whether it's scoring, pumping up the team with his celebrations or making a big hit.

i've said this before but i honestly can't believe this is even an issue. those of you who think you MUST make the playoffs to win the hart need to wake up. i garauntee ovie wins the hart by a landslide. brodeur possibly 2nd and malkin 3rd. the devils with almost any other goalie aren't in the playoffs most seasons, they just don't score enough goals., and they don't have the stacked defense they once had.

icemunkee, you think malkin's defesensive abilities are top notch then over ovechkin's? i don't think so. ovie is a +23, that's pretty impressive. he is trusted enough to go on the ice when the other team pulls the goalie for the extra man. i'm sure it has to do with his explosiveness and want for the puck to score the empty net, but you also have to be responsible in that situation. i mean if a forward has to have every quality to win the hart, that's being alittle over the top. i mean how is that fair when goalies just have to stop the puck right? should they have to have more than 4 assists and score a goal. of course i'm just being sarcastic but save the defensive side for the selke trophy, that's why it exists. plus i don't think there is a conspiracy against ovie, he gets tons of media coverage.

actually i never said nicklas lidstrom would win the hard i just said i think he deserved it, winning teams are built around defense and lids is the best of the best in that category, unfortunately historically the voting has favored forwards over defenseman and nick is so perfect and makes everything look so easy that his play is often overlooked. as good as ovechkin is he's still a one dimensional player.

the fact is that historically hart winners rarely come from teams who do not win the playoffs, and if you can't see that not making the playoffs hurts ovies chances you are ******* stupid.

[DenJ91 0]

actually i never said nicklas lidstrom would win the hard i just said i think he deserved it, winning teams are built around defense and lids is the best of the best in that category, unfortunately historically the voting has favored forwards over defenseman and nick is so perfect and makes everything look so easy that his play is often overlooked. as good as ovechkin is he's still a one dimensional player.

the fact is that historically hart winners rarely come from teams who do not win the playoffs, and if you can't see that not making the playoffs hurts ovies chances you are ******* stupid.

i'm aware of history and how the generally don't give it to players who don't get their team into the playoffs and thanks for calling me stupid, i think i'll go cry now. and by the way, you said "win the playoffs". so now your talking about the conn smyth trophy but i know what you meant. so anyway my answer to that is, basically every team has been in the playoff race all year. there is only a 5 pt gap between 8th seed and 11th place in both conferences (making that up but i'm pretty close). the caps are 2 pts out right now. when have we ever had such a tight race for the playoffs? it's a different structure in today's nhl. to overlook a player because he didn't put his team in the playoffs by a couple points would be unfair. don't be such an old school traditionalists. as the game changes, so should your opinions.

and to those reading this and getting annoyed by the arguments, since i suppose i started it, although never making personal attacks i'm sorry and from now on i will do my best to argue without saying others are stupid. i don't like when it gets to the point where someone is insulted like i was so let's just end this dumb crap.

i think ovie wins it, icemunkee you think malkin i guess, others think malkin or maybe brodeur or lidstrom. so be it, i just don't care anymore

Edited March 24, 2008 by DenJ91

[IceMunkee 15]

dude you need to chill out, you just called me mini hitler, i don't think that's funny or smart on your part. i'm sorry you're one of the few to fail to see why ovie deserves the hart hands down. i feel sorry for you, if you wanna make this kinda of personal attack on me, then it's on, cause i never attacked you like that. and i'm glad that you called yourself stupid, now i don't have too. this started out friendly, but you just can't handle the fact that i called you out on some of your points. one could say i do the same, but i would never make personal insults or refer to someone as hitler and think it's funny. just makes you look bad.

if you wanna call truce that's fine, i don't honestly care about you and your opinion anymore. i'm sure we'll have our differences from now on.

oh and nabokov?? now your just being silly again. nothing taken away from nabokov but even if they had toskala still in net, the sharks would still be a powerhouse. they are just such a good team overall. end of that story

i'm a very opinionated person, i don't enjoy arguing with people, sometimes when i try to explain my side of things i guess i come off alittle strong and perhaps insulting. i never try to make it that way but it can easily be taken that way so sorry about that to some of you.

what would be the point of forums if people always agreed with eachother. i never said anyone had to agree with me even if it comes off like that. this is just one topic i fail to understand how anyone could challange the agrument of ovie for the hart. eva and others pointed out many great agruments for the case, go call them stupid now, or i guess you're just worried about me cause i put your name in my replies. i mean i knew i'd get some crap for my last post, which is why i said "go ahead and bash me", but i didn't expect hitler remarks, that's just immature.

Immaturity, immaturity. Don't make it something it is not. You need to go reread your post before getting all drama queen over my remarks. You called anyone who disagreed stupid and should be embarresed. Among other things. That just seems very Hitler esq to me. That's all. If you don't want people to come back at you don't call people stupid. Which is far more offensive. I mean I may actually be stupid but you will never be Hitler.

Saying that Toskala or whoever could play in net for the Sharks and the outcome they same, then that just shows your knowledge depth. Sure your opinion depth is as deep as the ocean but your knowledge depth seems to be just a puddle.

Alright, done and done. Agree to disagree as they say....

[DenJ91 0]

Immaturity, immaturity. Don't make it something it is not. You need to go reread your post before getting all drama queen over my remarks. You called anyone who disagreed stupid and should be embarresed. Among other things. That just seems very Hitler esq to me. That's all. If you don't want people to come back at you don't call people stupid. Which is far more offensive. I mean I may actually be stupid but you will never be Hitler.

Saying that Toskala or whoever could play in net for the Sharks and the outcome they same, then that just shows your knowledge depth. Sure your opinion depth is as deep as the ocean but your knowledge depth seems to be just a puddle.

Alright, done and done. Agree to disagree as they say....

if you think me calling someone stupid is the same as a reference to hitler so be it. i'm agreeing that i probably shouldn't have said that, it just seems un real to me how others could see it another way. yes i'm sorry i shouldn't have done that. i read through your bull on the first post when you told me that you value my opinion, i responded saying the same to be nice but i knew you didn't mean it. nice quote at the end there by the way, i actually like it.

i'd be curious now to see how many people think the sharks wouldn't be very good without nabokov but you can start that thread. i'm done with this, it's getting nowhere so yes, agree to disagree. it's fun having a forum rival though, i seem to have a few already. if everyone did agree with me, it'd be no fun.

[IceMunkee 15]

if you think me calling someone stupid is the same as a reference to hitler so be it. i'm agreeing that i probably shouldn't have said that, it just seems un real to me how others could see it another way. yes i'm sorry i shouldn't have done that. i read through your bull on the first post when you told me that you value my opinion, i responded saying the same to be nice but i knew you didn't mean it. nice quote at the end there by the way, i actually like it.

i'd be curious now to see how many people think the sharks wouldn't be very good without nabokov but you can start that thread. i'm done with this, it's getting nowhere so yes, agree to disagree. it's fun having a forum rival though, i seem to have a few already. if everyone did agree with me, it'd be no fun.

I do actually value your opinion and in the last thread it was someone else calling everyone who did not agree stupid. I think you just took it personal. It was a bit over the top with the Hitler thing but you must admit the little yellow smiley's with Nazi signs at the end was pretty damn funny. I thought a couple of your points in the first thread were valid. Where we then agreed how amazing as a player AO is and the only thing we disagreed on was the playoff part. Just to recap like the fat guy on NHL on the fly... The one that said the Detroit fans are sick of the wings because they do great all season and then get bounced round 1 or round 2. He is retarded. I dunno I am running very low on sleep. I am sitting in a hospital room as I have been since 3pm yesterday and boredum stricks. Our debate was nice and the went personal. I apologize. Look at this way in a few days we will most likely totally agree on something other people disagree with and we will validate each others perspectives. That is the beauty of this thing, I don't always agree but educated hockey fans will eventually agree on something...

Agree to disagree.....

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

......are very good. No way do the Caps get this far without AO.

[Guest paveldatsukthenextsavard]

i'm aware of history and how the generally don't give it to players who don't get their team into the playoffs and thanks for calling me stupid, i think i'll go cry now. and by the way, you said "win the playoffs". so now your talking about the conn smyth trophy but i know what you meant. so anyway my answer to that is, basically every team has been in the playoff race all year. there is only a 5 pt gap between 8th seed and 11th place in both conferences (making that up but i'm pretty close). the caps are 2 pts out right now. when have we ever had such a tight race for the playoffs? it's a different structure in today's nhl. to overlook a player because he didn't put his team in the playoffs by a couple points would be unfair. don't be such an old school traditionalists. as the game changes, so should your opinions.

and to those reading this and getting annoyed by the arguments, since i suppose i started it, although never making personal attacks i'm sorry and from now on i will do my best to argue without saying others are stupid. i don't like when it gets to the point where someone is insulted like i was so let's just end this dumb crap.

i think ovie wins it, icemunkee you think malkin i guess, others think malkin or maybe brodeur or lidstrom. so be it, i just don't care anymore

i think it's pretty obvious i meant make the playoffs, i'm stoned so cut me some slack. my opinion on who should win it is kinda irrelevant to his hart chances. it's the people who vote who dictate his hart chances, and they have shown a history of voting only for players whose team made the playoffs.

Personally even if the caps make the playoffs i'd vote for lidstrom over ovechkin because he's a more complete player and for other various reasons.

[DenJ91 0]

alright icemunkee, i was wrong, i admitted it as did you. we're cool again. it totally went sour quick and you're no longer my lgw rival! haha. as for the pavel guy, i'm not sure cause he's stoned and i just don't trust him. lol jk bro.

[eva unit zero 271]

Also if you ae going to consider Broduer for the Hart, then you MUST consier the Iron Man Nabakov. With out him starting every game for the Sharks they would not be as good. You want to talk Mot Valuable Player we need to talk Nabby. A team that rely's on one player, there you have it. Yes the Sharks have depth an great players but no team has had todepend on someone as much as the Sharks have Nabby, and they not only made the playoff's but made a tear to the top!!! For those who think goalies should not be considered need to... wake up?

Nabokov should not receive a vote for either Vezina or Hart. Nabokov has played 71 games. Four other goaltenders have started 65+ and played between 65 and 70....so it's not like he's the only guy in that range of games. Two of the guys who have played that many games are Martin Brodeur and Roberto Luongo, who are contending for the Vezina on much weaker teams than Nabokov has in front of him. Nabokov, at BEST, is the third most valuable goaltender in the league. And even that is ruling out guys like Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Lundqvist, and other top netminders who play a large number of games.

[imisssergei 0]

A few things to consider.

Players on teams that don't make the playoffs, almost never win the Hart.

Defensemen almost never win the Hart.

I've read some pretty ridiculous things in this thread, and some pretty interesting things.

Someone said that AO's +/- was effected by his PP time. A + or a - is only awarded when a goal is scored even strength. So I'm not too sure what that poster was trying to say. Anyone?

Malkin has had an incredible season. If people want to eliminate him from Hart consideration because of his supporting cast, than no one on the Wings should be in consideration either.

Crosby isn't the best player on his team, this year.

Nabokov hasn't played so many games because he is that good, it's because the backup is that bad.

Lidstrom has had a Norris caliber season, but the Hart might be a stretch.

Datsyuk has been playing out of his mind.

AO should get serious consideration for the Hart regardless if the Caps are in the playoffs or not. The argument was made that AO needs to take the Caps to the next level to get consideration for the Hart. Well, he has done just that. There is no one single player in the NHL good enough to take a team to the playoffs. We all know how good Bobby Luongo is, but even he wasn't good enough to take the Panthers to the playoffs.

Look what AO has done, and look where the Caps would be without him.

I'm not sure he takes the Hart home if the Caps don't make the playoffs, and I'm not sure he deserves if it they don't.

I'd say any of these 4 could win it:

Alex Ovechkin

Marty Brodeur

Bobby Luongo

Evgeni Malkin

[Doggy 130]

I'll puke if Luongo gets it.

Good thing he won't.

[eva unit zero 271]

A few things to consider.

Players on teams that don't make the playoffs, almost never win the Hart.

Defensemen almost never win the Hart.

I've read some pretty ridiculous things in this thread, and some pretty interesting things.

Someone said that AO's +/- was effected by his PP time. A + or a - is only awarded when a goal is scored even strength. So I'm not too sure what that poster was trying to say. Anyone?

Malkin has had an incredible season. If people want to eliminate him from Hart consideration because of his supporting cast, than no one on the Wings should be in consideration either.

Crosby isn't the best player on his team, this year.

Nabokov hasn't played so many games because he is that good, it's because the backup is that bad.

Lidstrom has had a Norris caliber season, but the Hart might be a stretch.

Datsyuk has been playing out of his mind.

AO should get serious consideration for the Hart regardless if the Caps are in the playoffs or not. The argument was made that AO needs to take the Caps to the next level to get consideration for the Hart. Well, he has done just that. There is no one single player in the NHL good enough to take a team to the playoffs. We all know how good Bobby Luongo is, but even he wasn't good enough to take the Panthers to the playoffs.

Look what AO has done, and look where the Caps would be without him.

I'm not sure he takes the Hart home if the Caps don't make the playoffs, and I'm not sure he deserves if it they don't.

I'd say any of these 4 could win it:

Alex Ovechkin

Marty Brodeur

Bobby Luongo

Evgeni Malkin

I would say the following players should be considered for the Hart:

Alexander Ovechkin. The league's top forward on a terrible team that still may make the playoffs. Realistically he deserves the award.

Evgeni Malkin. He's among the league leaders in points and kept his team afloat when their captain and star center went down injured. If Washington misses the playoffs, he's the most valuable forward on a playoff team, which is often enough to win the award.

Martin Brodeur. The league's top goaltender on a team with thin defense and weak forwards, and the league's most valuable goaltender.

Nicklas Lidstrom. The best player on the best team. That player always must be considered for the MVP award, even if he's not nominated.

[DenJ91 0]

I would say the following players should be considered for the Hart:

Alexander Ovechkin. The league's top forward on a terrible team that still may make the playoffs. Realistically he deserves the award.

Evgeni Malkin. He's among the league leaders in points and kept his team afloat when their captain and star center went down injured. If Washington misses the playoffs, he's the most valuable forward on a playoff team, which is often enough to win the award.

Martin Brodeur. The league's top goaltender on a team with thin defense and weak forwards, and the league's most valuable goaltender.

Nicklas Lidstrom. The best player on the best team. That player always must be considered for the MVP award, even if he's not nominated.

i think the capitals get a bad wrap too often about being a bad team. they are 3rd in pts i think since the all star break, don't quote me on that, but they aren't a bad team, they had a bad start and stretch under hanlon. i think their defense is weak, and lack some depth on the 3rd and 4th line but they are no slouches as a whole.

backstrom is making a run for the calder trophy, an amazing talent, one of the best passers in the league. alex semin while being dissappointing is a stud and needs to shoot the puck more!!! viktor kozlov has had a great 2nd half. nylander is always consistent but has been hurt. with the addition of fedorov, although not the scoring threat he used to be(also needs to shoot more) has provided a TON and is playing very good. huet is a top notch goalie in my opinion and cooke gives you that added depth and grit they needed. let's not forget mike green who hopefully will turn into the next paul coffey. brooks laich has even played well gettind 20 goals.

i'm just saying alot of times people say the capitals suck, i just think they played poorly, but the talent is there and will def be a force for many years to come. despite that, ovie has still carried the team bottom line.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I would say the following players should be considered for the Hart:

Alexander Ovechkin. The league's top forward on a terrible team that still may make the playoffs. Realistically he deserves the award.

Evgeni Malkin. He's among the league leaders in points and kept his team afloat when their captain and star center went down injured. If Washington misses the playoffs, he's the most valuable forward on a playoff team, which is often enough to win the award.

Martin Brodeur. The league's top goaltender on a team with thin defense and weak forwards, and the league's most valuable goaltender.

Nicklas Lidstrom. The best player on the best team. That player always must be considered for the MVP award, even if he's not nominated.

That's not a factual statement first of all.

Without Lidstrom the Wings would still be a playoff team and probably still win the Central Division. Probably. So no, he wouldn't nor shouldn't be considered.

Especially when the Wings boast the #4 scorer and #7 scorers in the league. Not when the Wings have another Top 10 scoring defensman. Not when the Wings goalies are #1 and #5 in GAA and the team is 1st in Goals Against, which is indicative of the strong team defense being played. Not when the Wings have the #1 offense in the league with potentially 6 20+ goal scorers.

You can't rule out the possibility that the best player on the best team cannot win the MVP. Certainly monster seasons by forwards on great teams has proven that. But Nick Lidstrom is not having such a monster year so much so as to be carrying the Wings or taking them to a next level of play.

AO will win the MVP regardless of making the playoffs or not. Guaranteed!

[imisssergei 0]

I would say the following players should be considered for the Hart:

Alexander Ovechkin. The league's top forward on a terrible team that still may make the playoffs. Realistically he deserves the award.

Evgeni Malkin. He's among the league leaders in points and kept his team afloat when their captain and star center went down injured. If Washington misses the playoffs, he's the most valuable forward on a playoff team, which is often enough to win the award.

Martin Brodeur. The league's top goaltender on a team with thin defense and weak forwards, and the league's most valuable goaltender.

Nicklas Lidstrom. The best player on the best team. That player always must be considered for the MVP award, even if he's not nominated.

The only reason I don't think Lidstrom will get any serious consideration for the Hart, is that he plays defense.

Since the trophy's inception in 23-24, only 12 times has a defensmen have won the trophy, 7 of which were won by Shore and Orr.

[toby91_ca 620]

The only reason I don't think Lidstrom will get any serious consideration for the Hart, is that he plays defense.

Since the trophy's inception in 23-24, only 12 times has a defensmen have won the trophy, 7 of which were won by Shore and Orr.

Yet, at the same time, your list of 4 players includes 2 goalies. A goalie has only won the award 7 times in its history.

[imisssergei 0]

Yet, at the same time, your list of 4 players includes 2 goalies. A goalie has only won the award 7 times in its history.

But of those 7 times, 6 different goalies have won. Only 7 dmen have won it.

And IMO, Bobby and Marty are more important to their teams success than Lidstrom is to the Wings.