NHL's disappointing players

[up2here 41]

Calling Crosby a dissappointment is just pure jealousy. The scope of his career hasnt even been determined,players dont hit their prime until 25 at the earliest. That might be the dumbest thing anyone has EVER said on these boards.

Edited March 24, 2008 by UP2HERE

[BeeRYCE 2]

What did ever happen to Blackburn? He was being touted as the next Mike Dunham for a while there and now where is he?

The next Mike Dunham? I mean he had a decent career of being a backup or a 1B goalie at best, but why would it be such an accomplishment to be considered the next Dunham?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

another thing to consider as i agree with what your saying, is that we shouldn't compare today's players to gretzky. it was a different game then, be it goalies, scoring averages for a game, etc etc. we will never see another 200 pt season, we'll be lucky if a player gets 150. i don't think it's fair to hype someone up as the next gretzky anymore and expect numbers like that, because the game is so different. i think we should hold different standards at around 100pt seasons, which crosby has done 2 seasons now and would easily have done it again this year had he not gotten hurt. and i don't think it's fair to wonder if ovechkin will ever hit 92 goals, it's ridiculous in today's game. i mean we haven't had a 60 goal scorer in 12/13 years, so why would someone get 92 ya know?

Well said. I think though that people ought to be smarter than to buy into "greatest ever" or however they hyped Crosby.

Did any sane, rational person really think Crosby or any other player was going to come into the league and score 200 points?

If they did, then they're fuggin' idiots.

Hyping any new player needs to be taken into context of where the game is now and how its played.

People who say he's been a disspointment are basing that on some personal bias and not intelligence, sorry to say but the truth hurts.

If those people thought that by the way he was hyped he'd score 200 points a year, then I call those people fools. Either that or they have no concept of what the NHL is like anymore.

If those people wanted a real dose of reality they should check out the early 90's highlights. Watch how players hooked the s*** out of guys with the puck and no penalties were called. Guys water skiing all over the ice. You could literally put your stick into a guy's midsection and stop skating and you wouldn't get called.

The 80's are over and no amount of hype for any player will ever bring those numbers back. So I say again, people should stop being duped so easily and realize the context of any hype surrounding a player.

Crosby could very well go down as one of the greatest ever. Does that mean he has to have more points than Gretzky? Maybe, maybe not. What if he so dominates the next 15 years that his PPG average is astronomically higher than everyone elses. Wouldn't that mean he somewhat transcended the sport and elevated himself to a higher level? That could be all that's needed to dub him one of the best ever. He doesn't necessarily have to score 93 goals or put up 200+ points in a year.

[Opie 308]

UP2here I hope that is not a pic of your 360 in your avatar, I unfortunately had to deal with the dreaded 3 lights of DOOOM!!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

wow!! is this really happening! you and i are in complete agreement on an issue!?? haha. and we were actually thinking the same #'s too, like 150 pts and came up with similar responses. i was in the middle of typing when you finished. crazy. wonder if this will ever happen again. lol

It's all because you have elevated your game to an elite level. You are now truly a scholar!

Now if we can just teach a thing or two to some of our fellow boardies.

[UpperCorner14 0]

Joe Juneau

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Joe Juneau

To answer the OP, Alex Daigle for sure. Although it did come out that he didn't even want to play hockey so what can you do.

and

Zac Bierk

wasn't he supposed to be a stud goalie?

PS: Not hyped much but a guy that continually baffles me by his inability to produce is Josef Vasicek. Big guy, good hands, good instincts but he just never got it going.

Chris Gratton also was supposed to be an offensive force in addition to his other talents. He became nothing more than a 3rd line fighter. Although he's gotten better the past few years.

Edited March 24, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[tino59 0]

Calling Crosby a dissappointment is just pure jealousy. The scope of his career hasnt even been determined,players dont hit their prime until 25 at the earliest. That might be the dumbest thing anyone has EVER said on these boards.

Whoops. Let's try that again: The next Mike Richter. He was alright. Actually one of my favorite goalies, so I should probably remember his name

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Crosby is still the best player in the game today. BAR NONE. NOT LIDSTROM NOT LUONGO NOT OVECHKIN

[DenJ91 0]

It's all because you have elevated your game to an elite level. You are now truly a scholar!

Now if we can just teach a thing or two to some of our fellow boardies.

we actually are also in agreement in the ovechkin thread, is this really happening. well hope it continues, i don't like being on your bad side. haha.

[up2here 41]

UP2here I hope that is not a pic of your 360 in your avatar, I unfortunately had to deal with the dreaded 3 lights of DOOOM!!

Unfortunatly it is,its on its way back to Microsoft as we speak.

[DenJ91 0]

Joe Juneau

yeah i guess i can agree with that. i'm not sure what he was hyped to become. he was never really a scorer, but very early in his career he put up 70 assists one season and had a couple 50 assists seasons. after that though his #'s went down alot and became kinda mediocre so i can agree he became disappointing.

Edited March 24, 2008 by DenJ91

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

we actually are also in agreement in the ovechkin thread, is this really happening. well hope it continues, i don't like being on your bad side. haha.

I don't have a bad side.

I have those people who I agree with who I think are super duper, smart people like me.

I have those people who don't always agree with me who I think are still super duper, smart people like BB91 and many others.

And then there are the rest of the people that are on the left hand edge of the bell curve that are bringing down the collective intelligence of the world's population. Those people aren't on my bad side. They are on my pity side as I feel bad for them.

The thing that is truly messing me up now is the number of Fedorov supporters and those with 91 somewhere in their id that I find myself agreeing with these days. Either i'm a closeted Fedorov lover and I need to get back on the wagon or something sinister is afoot. I haven't got it figured out yet but I will.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I really wish Crosby didn't get injured. I truly believe he'd be #1 in points right now, a candidate for Hart and Art Ross, and it wouldn't be an argument to say who the best player in the game is. For most of the first half of the season, Crosby and Lecavalier were battling for #1 in points, and last season, it was undisputed that Crosby was in a league of his own. Now he's hurt, isn't the talk of the town, so therefore he is a "disappointment." Some only consider Crosby a disappointment because they were expecting him to be one before his career started, too scared to admit they were wrong.

[DenJ91 0]

Crosby is still the best player in the game today. BAR NONE. NOT LIDSTROM NOT LUONGO NOT OVECHKIN

i agree that crosby is the best player but in no way would i say "bar none". i mean ovechkin is a better scorer, one could say that someone like marc savard is as good a passer as sid with much much much less talented players to pass too, and certainly there are better skaters than sid like gaborik, but when you put everything together (passing, scoring, skating) along with sid's creativety and guts to try things other wouldn't, his drive to win, his fiestyness and heart etc, he is the BEST overall player.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Crosby is still the best player in the game today. BAR NONE. NOT LIDSTROM NOT LUONGO NOT OVECHKIN

You MUST be a member of the Canadian media.

I agree that a goalie can't be the best player. They don't do enough to consider them a complete player.

When asked who is the hardest player to play against, Crosby said Lidstrom. Would Lidstrom say Crosby? I think he would probably name a goalie.

Lidstrom is the best player of the entire game of hockey (within the rules) in the world. Being a defenseman, he will never win the Richard, he will never lead the league in assists. But, he will probably win the +/- this year, he will be the highest scoring Dman this year and he is ALWAYS up against the BEST players on the other team. He is a great passer, has a great shot, great control of the stick. And he is no doubt the best player at his position. He is PROVEN reliable and he is consistent in all aspects. There are no slumps. He is better as a player.

As for AO being better than Crosby, time will determine that. But this year AO is the MVP of the league.

[awingsincebirth 0]

The reason I threw Kozlov in there is that he was drafted pretty high, and has never really filled out to much more than a third liner.

With Crosby, he was hyped as the best player ever. He has produced, but I think Ovechkin has been more impressive. Crosby has had a very solid supporting cast, yet can't get his team out of the first round of the playoffs. To me, what Ovechkin has done with the cast he has been given, is much more impressive.

Take Ovechkin away from the Caps, and you have a team that is in the lottery for Stamkos. Take Crosby away from the Pens, and they don't really miss a step.

That is why I think he isn't a real MVP candidate. IMO, a true MVP must be vital to his teams success. Crosby's injury has proven that the Pens success isn't hinged on Crosby being in the lineup.

And you are right, we wouldn't be talking about Malin if Crosby hadn't gone down. But Crosby did go down.

No offense, but I'm not buyin this. He hasn't been able to take his team out of the playoffs....in the one year that he had a chance. The guy's 20 years old! Once he gets into his late, hell, maybe even his mid 20s we can talk, but not yet. GIve him another shot.

I don't think that you are particularly unjustified in saying that Ovechkin has been more impressive (baring in mind that he is also older). However, this observation may be simply relative to the hype, as Ovechkin received far less than The Croz because he was Russian, not Canadian. Has Ovechkin been great? Yes. Has Crosby been great? Yes. I think we just have to wait until their careers are both over before we can start to really critically debate who the better overall player was.

One last thing. You seem to be docking marks from Crosby because he has a better team. However, look at the standings the past couple of years...it has shown. Crosby made the playoffs last year, Ovy didn't. Crosby's team (granted he's missed a lot of time) is fighting for top spot in the conference this year, Ovy is fighting for the playoffs. To measure Ovechkin as being more successful because he is on a worse team doesn't make any sense, because the two teams are still not on the same level. If they WERE closer to each other in the standings, then you may have a point. Then you could say "Crosby has a good team, and Ovechkin has a s*** team, yet they are close to each other in the standings, thus Ovechkin is better because he can elevate his team that much more." But this isn't the case.

For the record, I'm not the huge Crosby fan, and I love Ovechkin because he is hilarious. I just dislike semi-irrational arguments.

[awingsincebirth 0]

Crosby is still the best player in the game today. BAR NONE. NOT LIDSTROM NOT LUONGO NOT OVECHKIN

Call me a homer, call me whatever you will, but I disagree.

If I have to start a franchise from scratch using a fantasy draft and I have the #1 pick, then I'd take Crosby, because he's pretty much got his whole career ahead of him, and he is already superb.

However, if we're talking just one season, right here, right now, in the present, if it didn't matter that he only had a couple of years left, I'd take Nick Lidstrom every time baby. #1 for the Hart in my heart, I just wish the rest of the league felt the same way.

[imisssergei 0]

I still don't understand? What does Vincent Lecavalier have to do with Sidney Crosby? Crosby has dominated where Lecavalier didn't for a long time.

I'll ask it again, what specifically makes him a dissapointment? Is it that he hasn't put up Mario like numbers?

If that's the case can you show me any player in the NHL that has put up Mario like numbers since the invention of the trap system, improved defensive schemes and basically the dead puck era of the past 15 years?

Nobody is going to put those numbers up again, ever. Somebody may get to 150 put nobody is going to approach the 175+ number ever again. The players are too big, the defenses too good, the goalies too amazing and the rinks still the same size. You can't put up those numbers anymore.

If you want proof, watch video of the Oilers dynasty. All you have to do is watch Paul Coffey, a defensman, score 48 goals in one season and then look at the goals he scored. Goalies had no idea what the butterfly was and they just stood there like pylons with pucks swishing past their feet all day where games ended 9-5.

Please elaborate on why Crosby is a dissapointment.

I said see above, not below. Crosby and and Vinny have nothing to do with each other in this case. Here is the post I was referring to:

"With Crosby, he was hyped as the best player ever. He has produced, but I think Ovechkin has been more impressive. Crosby has had a very solid supporting cast, yet can't get his team out of the first round of the playoffs. To me, what Ovechkin has done with the cast he has been given, is much more impressive.

Take Ovechkin away from the Caps, and you have a team that is in the lottery for Stamkos. Take Crosby away from the Pens, and they don't really miss a step."

I don't care what type of production people expect out of a player. I know that productions is directly effected by the surrounding cast you have.

What is disappointing about Crosby to me is that he has failed to make any real impact in the playoffs. Again, without Crosby the Pens are still in the playoffs. So technically speaking, the only real gain that the Pens get from having Crosby is financial. He was hyped as the best player since Gretzky. Yes, he is young, but he hasn't really done anything all that impressive. He has a good enough supporting cast to make noise in the playoffs. And he hasn't done that. That is why I am disappointed in Crosby.

I'm not saying he needs to win a Cup. But I am saying he needs to at least get the Pens out of the first round.

[imisssergei 0]

No offense, but I'm not buyin this. He hasn't been able to take his team out of the playoffs....in the one year that he had a chance. The guy's 20 years old! Once he gets into his late, hell, maybe even his mid 20s we can talk, but not yet. GIve him another shot.

I don't think that you are particularly unjustified in saying that Ovechkin has been more impressive (baring in mind that he is also older). However, this observation may be simply relative to the hype, as Ovechkin received far less than The Croz because he was Russian, not Canadian. Has Ovechkin been great? Yes. Has Crosby been great? Yes. I think we just have to wait until their careers are both over before we can start to really critically debate who the better overall player was.

One last thing. You seem to be docking marks from Crosby because he has a better team. However, look at the standings the past couple of years...it has shown. Crosby made the playoffs last year, Ovy didn't. Crosby's team (granted he's missed a lot of time) is fighting for top spot in the conference this year, Ovy is fighting for the playoffs. To measure Ovechkin as being more successful because he is on a worse team doesn't make any sense, because the two teams are still not on the same level. If they WERE closer to each other in the standings, then you may have a point. Then you could say "Crosby has a good team, and Ovechkin has a s*** team, yet they are close to each other in the standings, thus Ovechkin is better because he can elevate his team that much more." But this isn't the case.

For the record, I'm not the huge Crosby fan, and I love Ovechkin because he is hilarious. I just dislike semi-irrational arguments.

I'm not docking Crosby for being on a better team than Ovie. There is no doubt that Crosby has the better team, he probably always will. But seriously, look at the two situations.

Caps without Ovie and Pens without Crosby.

The Pens haven't missed a step without Crosby. There is no Malkin on the Caps. If Ovie goes down, so do the Caps.

I think you are way off on your comparison of the teams. I don't think anyone would argue that if the Pens and the Caps were close, say 6 points apart, saying the Caps were overachievers and the Pens were underachievers would be a true statement.

Again, without Crosby, the Pens are still a playoff team. Without Ovechkin, the Caps are looking at Stamkos.

[DenJ91 0]

I said see above, not below. Crosby and and Vinny have nothing to do with each other in this case. Here is the post I was referring to:

"With Crosby, he was hyped as the best player ever. He has produced, but I think Ovechkin has been more impressive. Crosby has had a very solid supporting cast, yet can't get his team out of the first round of the playoffs. To me, what Ovechkin has done with the cast he has been given, is much more impressive.

Take Ovechkin away from the Caps, and you have a team that is in the lottery for Stamkos. Take Crosby away from the Pens, and they don't really miss a step."

I don't care what type of production people expect out of a player. I know that productions is directly effected by the surrounding cast you have.

What is disappointing about Crosby to me is that he has failed to make any real impact in the playoffs. Again, without Crosby the Pens are still in the playoffs. So technically speaking, the only real gain that the Pens get from having Crosby is financial. He was hyped as the best player since Gretzky. Yes, he is young, but he hasn't really done anything all that impressive. He has a good enough supporting cast to make noise in the playoffs. And he hasn't done that. That is why I am disappointed in Crosby.

I'm not saying he needs to win a Cup. But I am saying he needs to at least get the Pens out of the first round.

um, so your basically basing the 1 and only year that crosby has been in the playoffs with the penquins as "not getting them out of the first round". your basing your argument on 1 year??? wow, how many hundreds of star players in nhl history have gone 1 single playoff year not getting into the 2nd round. this is absurd. btw, he had 3 goals and 2 assists in the 5 games he played in the playoffs last year which incase you haven't figured out is a ppg. i'd say he produced in the playoffs and he will this playoff season as well.

and why are people calling the rest of the capitals practically crap!!? that really bothers me. most of them are very young and will mature, just like other teams have been over the past years. backstrom is a great player, semin is a sniper, fedorov is thriving there, nylander although hurt is always solid, chris clark is a good player, mike green is the next paul coffey, cristobal huet is a top notch goalie. brooks laich is scoring. they lack in depth on the 3rd and 4th line and half of their defense, but to call them scrubs or stamkos (which i have no idea what that means) is crazy.

Edited March 24, 2008 by DenJ91

[imisssergei 0]

um, so your basically basing the 1 and only year that crosby has been in the playoffs with the penquins as "not getting them out of the first round". your basing your argument on 1 year??? wow, how many hundreds of star players in nhl history have gone 1 single playoff year not getting into the 2nd round. this is absurd. btw, he had 3 goals and 2 assists in the 5 games he played in the playoffs last year which incase you haven't figured out is a ppg. i'd say he produced in the playoffs and he will this playoff season as well.

My argument is that if Crosby is the second coming, he should be able to do more than get his team to the playoffs.

And yes, I am basing that on the single season where the Pens made the playoffs, what else should I base it on, how well he did in mites?

[imisssergei 0]

I don't think that you are particularly unjustified in saying that Ovechkin has been more impressive (baring in mind that he is also older). However, this observation may be simply relative to the hype, as Ovechkin received far less than The Croz because he was Russian, not Canadian. Has Ovechkin been great? Yes. Has Crosby been great? Yes. I think we just have to wait until their careers are both over before we can start to really critically debate who the better overall player was.

BTW....what the does age have to do with anything here? Both have spent 3 season in the NHL.

[DenJ91 0]

My argument is that if Crosby is the second coming, he should be able to do more than get his team to the playoffs.

And yes, I am basing that on the single season where the Pens made the playoffs, what else should I base it on, how well he did in mites?

because your basically saying that because the guy didn't win the cup in his first playoff season, he's not lived up to his hype. it's ridiculous! i don't care if you come back with saying he just needed to get to the 2nd round, it's just as ridiculous. you can't base anything on one year in the playoffs. he did his part, it's not his fault the pens didn't make it to the 2nd round last season. give the guy 5 years in the playoffs before you say something like this. i mean seriously, i can't believe you're actually saying these things

Edited March 24, 2008 by DenJ91

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I don't know how much you guys know about enforcers, but Scott Parker was supposed to be the next Bob Probert when he played in the minors. That prognosis ended when he fought Probert, literally.

Also, anyone remember Rico Fata? The guy that could skate like the wind, but could disappear into it just as easily.