The Avs sucker

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Hmm, what I said amounts to "I still like Ian Lapperierre, even though he gooned it up a bit".

What the other guy (was it you? I don't care enough to go back and look) amounted to "I hope that Lappy gets his neck broken".

Not being overly upset because Lappy hit someone with a few gloved punches and wishing a broken neck on another person are not in the same ballpark, friend. Had Lappy done anything that might actually have injurred Gabby, I'd care. This was just good fun goonery, and it might serve to make this otherwise boring series worthwhile.

I like good fun goonery for goonery's sake. I liked it when Probert ran goalies and sucker punched people. I do not, hopwever, want to see anyone get seriously injurred.

This is one of the things I hate most about fighting. This misconception that hitting somebody with your glove on is harmless.

Just watch any clip of Tootoo drilling Stephan Robidas or how about Gino Odjick on Todd Harvel or Matt Johnson on Jeff Beukeboom.

I watched the clip a couple of times. Lappy has a decent punch and he knows how to throw it. He could've KO'd Gaborik with any of the first couple of right handers he launched.

Those that continue to believe that glove on punches are harmless have not spent much time getting punched in the ******* face. Excuse my french but I can attest to the contrary that glove on punches can't do serious damage.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Sorry is this Ice Hockey or is it tidily winks!!

If Dats is getting crossed checked in the back and doesn't want it to happen anymore than he should do something about it. Otherwise skate to the bench complain to the coach about it and then the coach or the enforcer has to find away to get him on the ice with said person. Then the enforcer finally meets him at center, they drop gloves and Z loses a breakaway. As opposed to Dats taking care of it himself. You know like Joe T used to do, granted he got a broken jaw out of the deal, but he took care of business himself!

Just because he is a skilled player doesn't mean parts of the game don't apply to him. It is the same argument I have against guys that do nothing but fight, just because they fight doesn't mean they should be excluded from scoring. Do I expect Dats to take on Heavyweights on a nightly basis. NO! But if he wants guys to stop hitting him, or to stop taking liberties with him, stop them.

OR deal with it, OR

take up pillow Hockey!!

Granted I don't want him breaking his hand in a fight, but I would rather he fight and break his hand then get checked in the back and mess his back up.

If Gabby didn't want to fight why then did his gloves end up on the ice, did they fall off?

How do you know he didn't want to fight? Did he tell you so, I am not sure about you but when I see a guy drop his gloves while standing on the ice jawing back and forth at some one that, to me, is a good indicator that he wants to go!

Was the cross check dirty, technically yes, but find a shift in the NHL where 2-3 of those don't happen. Everyone in the GDT was all pumped when Cheli was doing it to Kane, yet when Lappy did it to Gaborik it was dirty. Really that is interesting!

The only difference between Cheli/Kane and Gaborik/Lappy is that Gaborik wanted to stop what was happening and had the balls to turn and do something about it, he got punched in the face for his troubles.

yeah because in all of my posts i want to ban fighting and hitting..hahahaha stop trying to argue with me. all im saying is why would he even go after gabby in the first place. there is a such thing as a players code ..you usally don't go after the skilled players because it makes you look more like a DB then a tough guy.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Sorry is this Ice Hockey or is it tidily winks!!

If Dats is getting crossed checked in the back and doesn't want it to happen anymore than he should do something about it. Otherwise skate to the bench complain to the coach about it and then the coach or the enforcer has to find away to get him on the ice with said person. Then the enforcer finally meets him at center, they drop gloves and Z loses a breakaway. As opposed to Dats taking care of it himself. You know like Joe T used to do, granted he got a broken jaw out of the deal, but he took care of business himself!

Just because he is a skilled player doesn't mean parts of the game don't apply to him. It is the same argument I have against guys that do nothing but fight, just because they fight doesn't mean they should be excluded from scoring. Do I expect Dats to take on Heavyweights on a nightly basis. NO! But if he wants guys to stop hitting him, or to stop taking liberties with him, stop them.

OR deal with it, OR

take up pillow Hockey!!

Granted I don't want him breaking his hand in a fight, but I would rather he fight and break his hand then get checked in the back and mess his back up.

If Gabby didn't want to fight why then did his gloves end up on the ice, did they fall off?

How do you know he didn't want to fight? Did he tell you so, I am not sure about you but when I see a guy drop his gloves while standing on the ice jawing back and forth at some one that, to me, is a good indicator that he wants to go!

Was the cross check dirty, technically yes, but find a shift in the NHL where 2-3 of those don't happen. Everyone in the GDT was all pumped when Cheli was doing it to Kane, yet when Lappy did it to Gaborik it was dirty. Really that is interesting!

The only difference between Cheli/Kane and Gaborik/Lappy is that Gaborik wanted to stop what was happening and had the balls to turn and do something about it, he got punched in the face for his troubles.

1st bolded: This is actually not as easy to do anymore. The instigator has pretty much made it a case of cutting your own throat if you do it. Your team is going to get penalized and more often than not the punk who started it isn't going to oblige the heavyweight and just drop the mits. Just ask any player who has had to play against Jarkko Ruttu or Maxim Lapierre or Alex Burrows or Matt Cooke, I could go on and on. It's not as simple as you make it sound.

2nd bolded: Opie, this is a stretch.

Marian Gaborik knows who Lappy is and vice versa. I doubt so much Gaborik wanted to fight Lappy so much as it was Gaborik knowing he was about to get a smackdown from the type of player that Lappy is and when faced with self preservation, even the most un pugilistic amongst us would probably at least try to defend ourselves.

Lappy knew what he was doing. He has no fear of Gaborik and nothing bad can happen from him mixing it up with Gaborik. I just don't like it. It was excessive and unnecessary for a solid, middle weight fighter to trade blows with Gaborik who has how many career fights? Zero? One maybe? Hell, Lappy probably has more majors in a single game than Gaborik has in his entire career.

Completely uncool and I totally disagree that thinking otherwise means I should be for tiddlywinks or pillow hockey.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

1st bolded: This is actually not as easy to do anymore. The instigator has pretty much made it a case of cutting your own throat if you do it. Your team is going to get penalized and more often than not the punk who started it isn't going to oblige the heavyweight and just drop the mits. Just ask any player who has had to play against Jarkko Ruttu or Maxim Lapierre or Alex Burrows or Matt Cooke, I could go on and on. It's not as simple as you make it sound.

2nd bolded: Opie, this is a stretch.

Marian Gaborik knows who Lappy is and vice versa. I doubt so much Gaborik wanted to fight Lappy so much as it was Gaborik knowing he was about to get a smackdown from the type of player that Lappy is and when faced with self preservation, even the most un pugilistic amongst us would probably at least try to defend ourselves.

Lappy knew what he was doing. He has no fear of Gaborik and nothing bad can happen from him mixing it up with Gaborik. I just don't like it. It was excessive and unnecessary for a solid, middle weight fighter to trade blows with Gaborik who has how many career fights? Zero? One maybe? Hell, Lappy probably has more majors in a single game than Gaborik has in his entire career.

Completely uncool and I totally disagree that thinking otherwise means I should be for tiddlywinks or pillow hockey.

thanks for that reply GST. just because we don't like a bad play on a players part we what it to be pillow fights and flowers...geez GST like i said before some posters on here like to argue for the sake of it i think sometimes.

[Guest micah]

This is one of the things I hate most about fighting. This misconception that hitting somebody with your glove on is harmless.

I don't think they're harmless, I think they hurt! There's a reason guys drop their gloves though. Fists are smaller and spread a punch's impact across a smaller area. If you get to choose between taking a gloved punch and a bare fisted punch, which one are you gonna take? I agre that hockey gloves are not pillows, but they're softer than bare knuckles. When fighters have time to plan a sneaky punch, they'll usually drop their gloves. See the Domi v. Samuelsson cheapshot. Domi didn't have to drop his glove to do that (it certainly wasn't making the punch any more honerable) he elected to because he wanted to hurt, maybe injur, Ulfie. Gloved punches aren't nothing, and they certainly can knock a guy out - but they are still milder than bare fists.

[Opie 308]

Hillbilly:

I am done TALKING to you if you are going to say that because I have a different opinion that I am arguing with you, yet you provide nothing to discuss with me other than "Stop arguing with me" so sorry, I was wrong! BTW: When did I say you wanted fighting out of the game, when did I say I wanted fighting out of the game?

My point was, if DATS doesn't want to have that crap done to him do something about it.

Watch how GS&T and I do this, we differ on a lot of things and we will hash them out, but it is not a flame war, or trolling or arguing, it is debating!

GS&T you mean to tell me that if Gaborik skates off, and does nothing Lappy still punches him in the face, are you trying to tell me he goes Bert on him and for no reason at all?

Read "what it means to be a red wing" (if you haven't already), the players talk about how back in the day there were no enforcers, everyone protected their own back. Why should it be different today, because players are more skilled?

So because Gaborik has no fights in his career he should be able to mouth off at a guy, repercussion free? Because until you can tell me exactly what happened between those for every second that led up to that moment in time, I am not going to assume that Lappy started all of that. Odds are he did though but none of us can prove that, we are just going by our (here we go this is a good one for this board) OPINIONS!! Sure you can draw an inference and say looking at those two who is more likely to start that BS, hands down Lappy. That still doesn't make it a fact.

Because a player cross checks another a couple of times doesn't mean that that the player has to turn and drop the gloves, Gaborik DID!!

Again the gloved punches are what I have a problem with, those things can do some severe damage, one of those misplaced can do some severe, severe mental damage.

Think of it as more of a strategy instead of a thuggery, you know like the Avs wanted Gaborik looking over his shoulder for the whole playoff series.

Nobody had a problem with Avery doing it last year, after he took a run at Kovy, in fact some people were using that as a reason he SHOULD be brought back to the wings, because his actions pretty much took Kovy completely out of his game. Again I state that I think this uprising is mainly from the fact that Lappy hit Lids!

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Hillbilly:

I am done TALKING to you if you are going to say that because I have a different opinion that I am arguing with you, yet you provide nothing to discuss with me other than "Stop arguing with me" so sorry, I was wrong! BTW: When did I say you wanted fighting out of the game, when did I say I wanted fighting out of the game?

My point was, if DATS doesn't want to have that crap done to him do something about it.

Watch how GS&T and I do this, we differ on a lot of things and we will hash them out, but it is not a flame war, or trolling or arguing, it is debating!

GS&T you mean to tell me that if Gaborik skates off, and does nothing Lappy still punches him in the face, are you trying to tell me he goes Bert on him and for no reason at all?

Read "what it means to be a red wing" (if you haven't already), the players talk about how back in the day there were no enforcers, everyone protected their own back. Why should it be different today, because players are more skilled?

So because Gaborik has no fights in his career he should be able to mouth off at a guy, repercussion free? Because until you can tell me exactly what happened between those for every second that led up to that moment in time, I am not going to assume that Lappy started all of that. Odds are he did though but none of us can prove that, we are just going by our (here we go this is a good one for this board) OPINIONS!! Sure you can draw an inference and say looking at those two who is more likely to start that BS, hands down Lappy. That still doesn't make it a fact.

Because a player cross checks another a couple of times doesn't mean that that the player has to turn and drop the gloves, Gaborik DID!!

Again the gloved punches are what I have a problem with, those things can do some severe damage, one of those misplaced can do some severe, severe mental damage.

Think of it as more of a strategy instead of a thuggery, you know like the Avs wanted Gaborik looking over his shoulder for the whole playoff series.

Nobody had a problem with Avery doing it last year, after he took a run at Kovy, in fact some people were using that as a reason he SHOULD be brought back to the wings, because his actions pretty much took Kovy completely out of his game. Again I state that I think this uprising is mainly from the fact that Lappy hit Lids!

watch how we do this? you talk to me like im your 5 year old son. hahahaha whatever dude...you have your "debate" .

my comment about the fighting was because i see stuff like what you say on here all the time.just because i didn't agree with the way lappy did what he did i want pillow fights and tidily winks. please . its a different game then it was before. and ALL players know that. thats just the way it is. you don't go after a skilled player that has no fighting experience period in todays hockey. did you like it when yzerman was jumped by Maguire?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T you mean to tell me that if Gaborik skates off, and does nothing Lappy still punches him in the face, are you trying to tell me he goes Bert on him and for no reason at all?

I actually have no idea what transpired or what was said as I didn't watch the game just the clip. Lappy looked pretty pissed off. I doubt he would've pulled a Bert but I don't think Lappy would've let the issue die either. As I stated, he has everything to gain and nothing to lose in a confrontation with Gaborik.

So because Gaborik has no fights in his career he should be able to mouth off at a guy, repercussion free?

I would definitely not think that. But like I said, I don't know who started it or what was said. All I know is Gaborik isn't going to fight. One can assume (at least I am) that given the two parties history that Lappy would've been willing to throw down and Gaborik would not have. In the grand scheme of things worse things have happened to star players. I just don't like to see it happen. Did Gaborik spear Lappy earlier or something? Did he do something that warranted 3 or 4 haymaking right hands from Lappy? I'm doubting it but I can't say with any certainty.

Because a player cross checks another a couple of times doesn't mean that that the player has to turn and drop the gloves, Gaborik DID!!

The most telling thing for me is at the 1:05 mark of the youtube clip. Lappy turns around and Gaborik is standing there. He's not motioning to drop the gloves. you can't tell if he's saying anything either. I can only assume that he wasn't saying "let's go" because that would be completely out of character for him and a bit suicidal. What happens after that is Lappy just hauls off and drills him up high. At that point on its self preservation/defense on Gaborik's part. At least that's how I see it. And good for him for not backing down.

The point being there was no need for that first shot by Lappy. That wasn't a fight. It was a mugging and Gaborik fought back. Knowing Lappy's style I just can't figure out why he didn't skate up to Gaborik and ask him to go or mouth off to him or whatever. Him just teeing off really suprised me here and that's what I don't like.

Players have done that to Homer and Franzen a million times. They're gloves have come off sometimes and they've shoved and punched back too. I wouldn't call those fights. Those too are usually muggings, started by the other guy.

Think of it as more of a strategy instead of a thuggery, you know like the Avs wanted Gaborik looking over his shoulder for the whole playoff series.

I think this is exactly what it was. Maybe not in that instance was Lappy thinking that but I would bet he was salivating at the thought of fighting Gaborik.

In the end there wasn't much harm done. Lappy did his job and Gaborik did well to not look like a total chump. Still, I dont' think it was necessary to just haul off and start swinging like that. That's not a fair fight even with one hand tied behind Lappy's back.

[Opie 308]

watch how we do this? you talk to me like im your 5 year old son. hahahaha whatever dude...you have your "debate" .

my comment about the fighting was because i see stuff like what you say on here all the time.just because i didn't agree with the way lappy did what he did i want pillow fights and tidily winks. please . its a different game then it was before. and ALL players know that. thats just the way it is. you don't go after a skilled player that has no fighting experience period in todays hockey. did you like it when yzerman was jumped by Maguire?

I'm sorry I wouldn't have talked to you like that had you not said that because I stated an opinion I was arguing with you.

NO I didn't like it when Yzerman was jumped, you know why, because I couldn't take my Red Wing glasses off. That is exactly why!!!

But if you asked me to look at it as an observer, like this incident where I don't really care about either team or player, I say that I have no clue what happened between those two, all I know is that at some point in time, Gaborik willing dropped his gloves.

He could have skated away and been called names or whatever, but he didn't he was man enough to step up, unfortunately that is where Lappy crossed the line IMO, not when he started cross checking and hacking at him. To be clear (I may not have been earlier) I love what Gaborik did and I think more "Skilled" players should do it.

Now instead of defending your statements by calling me argumentative, basically a troll, why not back them up. Tell me why that was so dirty, why was it ok for Cheli to crosscheck Kane, but not Lappy to do it to Gaborik?

So that you know ahead of time, a statement Like

you usally don't go after the skilled players because it makes you look more like a DB then a tough guy.

won't exactly come off as a ringing endorsement, because that says to me that we are dealing with a double standard and that sometimes it is ok and some times it isn't. Well when is it ok, when it is someone you don't like, when the guy says some thing about your wife, when he looks at you funny? When, I am not sure when the usually turns into don't or it is ok this time?

The kind of crap before they(well Lappy) started throwing happens all of the time in the league, it is the reason Crosby got in a fight, he was tired of it, the difference being the guy that he went at it with had the balls to do it fair and not with a gloved hand. To me him punching him in the face with a glove is a totally classless and Tootoo type move, that I have a distinct problem with.

Again if Avery did this to Forsberg, this board would be up in arms screaming about this is exactly why the wings need Avery back. But, my contention is that because it was Lappy people are blowing it out of proportion.

I didn't say you wanted it to be pillow hockey because you said he shouldn't have done it, I said that because you asked me MY OPINION of what I would think if it was Dats, I answered your question. Albeit with a little attitude, but still I don't see why player A cannot be hit a certain way or a certain place while player B can be, same as I don't see why Pronger got 8 games and Simon got 30!

I am not saying you are wrong and if you re-read my posts you will notice I say things like I THINK, or IMO, I LIKE, I never said this is how it should be!

Also you seem to not have noticed that one of my main points of contention this whole discussion is that, none of us know what happened even 10 seconds before that play, let alone the whole friggin' game that had been played up until that point. And then at the end of the clip (the one you assumed I didn't watch) you will hear the announcer say he was setting the tone for the series, hey wait didn't some one on here post that exact statement, oh yeah ME!!!

I guarantee the next time they play Lappy knows what is coming to him, he went out there did what he did, knowing that he was going to have to pay for punching the teams star player.

So I get this right and I am not misunderstanding you:

If that was Mark Parrish, Mikko Koivu, or Eric Belanger do you still have a problem with how it happened, or is it just because it is Gaborik that you have the problem.

If that is the case the I assume you have no problem with Pronger only getting 8 and Simon getting 30, because you APPEAR to be fine with the double standard.

[Opie 308]

GS&T I agree with what you are saying about once they sort of squared off, I hate that he punched him with the gloves on. I love the fact that Gaborik had the balls to stand there, because like you said it was suicidal. But lets look at the setting the stage for the playoffs, maybe in Gaboriks head he is thinking, if I stand up to this guy even if I get smashed in the face, it will show my team that I (arguably the softest player on the team) won't back down and then they will feed off off of that and really take it to the Avs.

I, like you, can't say what led up to the fight, but what Lappy did to get Gaborik agitated or riled up was perfectly fine in my book.

Otherwise put the "Skilled" players in different colored jerseys, put little flags on their hips and lets not touch them! IMO!

[Saran 1]

its stupid that he did that but i'm kind of glad it happened cuz thats gonna make their series very hate filled.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T I agree with what you are saying about once they sort of squared off, I hate that he punched him with the gloves on. I love the fact that Gaborik had the balls to stand there, because like you said it was suicidal. But lets look at the setting the stage for the playoffs, maybe in Gaboriks head he is thinking, if I stand up to this guy even if I get smashed in the face, it will show my team that I (arguably the softest player on the team) won't back down and then they will feed off off of that and really take it to the Avs.

I, like you, can't say what led up to the fight, but what Lappy did to get Gaborik agitated or riled up was perfectly fine in my book.

Otherwise put the "Skilled" players in different colored jerseys, put little flags on their hips and lets not touch them! IMO!

I didn't see all of what got Gaborik riled up and frankly, that stuff doesn't bother me at all. Lappy is supposed to hack and whack and yap at the other team's star player. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

As I said, I just couldn't believe my eyes when he just started to tee off. If you could be Gaborik's brain right there I wonder what he would've been thinking.

My guesses are, in this order:

1. "oh s***"

2. "oh no you din'nt"

3. ........................................flat line as this is where he stops thinking and starts swinging back

Its no big deal really but you're right, probably a big deal for those 2 teams. I am curious though it didn't look like the Wild bench were really praising or patting Gabby on the back or anything. either they were in shock or I just didn't see it off camera. You'd think they would've been giving him some love. Just another reason I dont' see this as a real fight and more of just your everyday mugging of a star player who decided to fight his attacker off instead of getting pummelled.

[Opie 308]

That is a good point, I too would think the team would be all over him for defending himself, but you are right he just sort of walks by them all and nothing.

I honestly think that if they didn't know they were facing each other in a couple of days that incident never happens.

Edit:

But my point is still the same, you can't have a double standard for star or skilled players when it comes to them getting hit or punched, and then in another thread say that Pronger should have gotten 30 games and complain that he didn't.

You have already set a precedence for star players being treated differently!

(not saying you as in you, as in general)

Edited April 7, 2008 by Opie

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Listen not to be picky here but did you (both of you not just GMR) just compare Lappy to Probert as well as Gaborik to Gretz and Super Mario?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

In all fairness, Gaborik had dropped his gloves, therefore he was up to the task, so the argument that Lappy was sucker punching or attacking Gaborik is a little far fetched. I will agree though that punching some one in the face with a glove on while the other player has dropped his is bush league!!!

Especially when it is a "non fighter"/"skill" player who has WILLINGLY dropped his mits.

Other than that I have no problem with what Lappy did.

I can't in good faith say that the enforcer rule should be dropped and that players need to protect/police themselves, and then say that punching a "Skill" player with a glove on is ok, but also, just because Gaborik isn't a skilled player that doesn't exclude him from having to answer the bell. We have no idea what was said or happened behind the play. Crosby has to deal with slashes and all kinds of other crap, how did he try to stop it, he got in a fight.

Now if the "Non Fighter" does answer the bell, he better be able to throw. If not DON"T DROP YOUR GLOVES! Go whine to your coach or enforcer and let them take care of it, but don't expect the "dirty" play to stop.

If you don't like guys taking liberties with you, stop them, or find a way to play with them doing it.

I doubt that Gaborik was so willing to fight Lappy. He's not that stupid. And it shouldn't be a non-fighter's job to have to stand up for himself against an enforcer. That's suicide, besides, that's why teams have enforcers on their team, to do jobs like that. Lappy knew that, yet he still insisted on fighting Gaborik, instead of somebody else.

It was a cowardly move on his part, and I wouldn't want to see other fighters around the league start pulling that crap.

As far as the Gretzky and Lemieux talk, I was just saying that the code throughout the years has been for enforcers not to fight the other team's skilled, non-fighters. I'd like to see it remain that way.

[akustyk 84]

what a classless douchebag. hope Minny has them sent golfing in 4 games.

I'm slowly getting convinced having Dives in Round 1 would not be the best choice.

I wanted it but I really don't want to see this kind of ******* going after our

quality players