WQF Game 3 (4/14) GDT: Predators 5, Red Wings 3

[Firehawk 305]

If the wings are worthy of a cup, they will bounce right back from this loss. If not, well, then we learn alot about this team.

[Matt 1,049]

The "dislike" over Kronwall's play is curious to me, too. How long has it been since the Red Wings had a legitmate knock-you-in-to-next-week defenseman playing on the blueline? Quite a while.

He's still building up that rep, too. Don't think that Nashville players will be more prone to keeping their heads up when coming through the neutral zone when he's on the ice.

I LOVE that facet of his game and it can't be understated. All I hope is that he 1) times them right and 2) doesn't take him out of position.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Shos were 29-26, we had only three more shost than them. It's not like it was a 40-20 shot game. We may have marginally out-played them, but that's about it. They played with way more energy than us, we deserved to lose. And saying a hard slap shot 5-10 feet from the crease is not a decent scoring chance is retardation at it's best. Not only is it a decent scoring chance, it's a great scoring chance and it was a great shot.

He was farther out than that. I expect goalies in today's NHL to stop shots like that, or else Sammy would be a 40 goal scorer each year.

And the 3rd goal was a weak wrister that should never be considered a decent scoring chance. I can't believe some people are blaming the defense for that one.

[gcom007 1,465]

The "dislike" over Kronwall's play is curious to me, too. How long has it been since the Red Wings had a legitmate knock-you-in-to-next-week defenseman playing on the blueline? Quite a while.

He's still building up that rep, too. Don't think that Nashville players will be more prone to keeping their heads up when coming through the neutral zone when he's on the ice.

I LOVE that facet of his game and it can't be understated. All I hope is that he 1) times them right and 2) doesn't take him out of position.

I love it too, but the leaving your feet thing is asking for trouble. I want to keep it clean for the sake of integrity, but also to avoid suspensions. He just needs to make sure he doesn't get too gung-ho about pushing the boundaries of what's acceptable in the league. Plenty of big, clean hits to be made.

Edited April 15, 2008 by gcom007

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

The "dislike" over Kronwall's play is curious to me, too. How long has it been since the Red Wings had a legitmate knock-you-in-to-next-week defenseman playing on the blueline? Quite a while.

He's still building up that rep, too. Don't think that Nashville players will be more prone to keeping their heads up when coming through the neutral zone when he's on the ice.

I LOVE that facet of his game and it can't be understated. All I hope is that he 1) times them right and 2) doesn't take him out of position.

i agree matt. i havn't read any of this GDT but if there are really people complaining about him then then thats pretty stupid after going 3 or 4 seasons of reading everyone crying about us not being physical.

[Hank 0]

I thought a lot of our players performed pretty well last night.

Every line is working hard, Dats and Zetts are making chances, Kronner's hitting everything in site.

The only negatives I see are:

- Stuart has too many brain farts. He's basically been doing this for years but I'd like to see him concentrate more and make the simple play when a complicated one isn't necessary.

- Hasek lets in one bad goal a game. I'm not going to fault him for Arnott's. That was a perfectly placed howitzer. He could have shot that 100 more times and I doubt he'd have shot it as perfectly as he did last night.

But Suter's goal is a goal that Hasek has to stop. Plain and simple. Just like both of Tootoo's goals.

I just hope when the dust clears we're not saying "if we had any of the other 15 goalies in our net, we would have won it all". Hasek has made some great saves but giving up one bad goal a game will not win us the Cup.

[Firehawk 305]

See now I didn't think the wings looked like they were working very hard for the second half of the game. they looked like they were standing around alot, and were trying to trap the entire 3rd period. That was a bad way to try to seal the deal. Of course, if Stuart's shot goes in, we win most likely, but I mean, the wings looked flat for half that game.

[Hank 0]

See now I didn't think the wings looked like they were working very hard for the second half of the game. they looked like they were standing around alot, and were trying to trap the entire 3rd period. That was a bad way to try to seal the deal. Of course, if Stuart's shot goes in, we win most likely, but I mean, the wings looked flat for half that game.

I agree. I said they worked hard but that's not right. Maybe I was trying to be positive? Who knows.

It seems like the Wings dont' have an answer when the Preds get fired up. Everytime they do, they have our heads spinning.

I'm scared to think what it'll look like if we play Calgary next.

What's it going to take for the Wings to get some urgency in their game? Some desparation?

I'm hoping they come out flying in Game 4. They need to.

For most of last night, while they did control the puck the majority of the time, it was like they were in a scrimmage. No emotion.

[NHLrules? 32]

Once again we scored more than enough goals to win last night.

Once again we cant get it done on the PP this series.

Once again the goaltending is average at best.

This seems like an every year thing. If we need to score three goals a game to win playoff series we wont go very far. Its been proven. We need to be able to win games 1-0, 2-1. We have not been able to do this since 2002, and have not gone very far.

If we dont get the PP figured out soon we will also go down. 2-11 or whatever wont work.

[Hank 0]

Once again we scored more than enough goals to win last night.

Once again we cant get it done on the PP this series.

Once again the goaltending is average at best.

This seems like an every year thing. If we need to score three goals a game to win playoff series we wont go very far. Its been proven. We need to be able to win games 1-0, 2-1. We have not been able to do this since 2002, and have not gone very far.

If we dont get the PP figured out soon we will also go down. 2-11 or whatever wont work.

What's troubling is that our defense is so good that we only give up a handful of decent chances, and still Hasek struggles with the low-percentage shots.

I think it's fair to say that if we had a true #1 goalie over the past 10 5 years we probably would have won a cup or two in that time span. Even Gerber is playing better than Hasek.

[NHLrules? 32]

One last thing.

Babcock trying to play Scotty Bowman isnt working for us either. Why mess with success. Whats with his love for hartigan and sammy? Whey wouldnt he just let Ozzie finish up the season and start the playoffs? Why is downy sitting and not beating the piss outta tootoo every shift?

There are too many things to list, but these are a few that piss me off. Oh and for god sake sit Lillypads ass for lebda if he wont use his size to lay the wood. Lebda is much faster and brings alot of things Lilja doesnt have, like speed and puck control.

[wingsfan_54 10]

Attention fellow red wings fans....we cant go 16-0 in the playoffs haha u have to lose sometimes, we gotta stop worrying,we have a solid team here and there's othnig to worry about...yeah sure Hasek didn't have his best game in the world..but hey we'll come otu strong next game!.....Although there is one thing i STRONGLY disagreed with and I called it that Nashville would tie it up for this sole reason...once we had the 3-2 lead we jsut dropepd abck and played defensive style generating no offence, we continued to let nashvilel come to us as we were sending mostly 1 guy in adn keepin 4 back...and I disagree with that cuz that ain't our style of play we gotta be aggressive int he offensive zone...so i knida blame Babcock on that...but regardless we all gota chill, take it for what it is..a loss...sure us Red Wing fans are a lil but on the edge around this time of year cuz of our past playoff letdowns especially to lower seeded teams...but we'll be fine...Go Wings Go..Wings in 5 !!!!! :-)

[Hank 0]

Attention fellow red wings fans....we cant go 16-0 in the playoffs haha u have to lose sometimes, we gotta stop worrying,we have a solid team here and there's othnig to worry about...yeah sure Hasek didn't have his best game in the world..but hey we'll come otu strong next game!.....Although there is one thing i STRONGLY disagreed with and I called it that Nashville would tie it up for this sole reason...once we had the 3-2 lead we jsut dropepd abck and played defensive style generating no offence, we continued to let nashvilel come to us as we were sending mostly 1 guy in adn keepin 4 back...and I disagree with that cuz that ain't our style of play we gotta be aggressive int he offensive zone...so i knida blame Babcock on that...but regardless we all gota chill, take it for what it is..a loss...sure us Red Wing fans are a lil but on the edge around this time of year cuz of our past playoff letdowns especially to lower seeded teams...but we'll be fine...Go Wings Go..Wings in 5 !!!!! :-)

Good post.

The Wings are still going to win this series.

But I'd be lying if I said our lack of intensity and Hasek letting in questionable goals doesn't worry me.

[tazzer82 0]

I honestly can't see why anyone would complain about Kronner laying monster hits like that. Sure, he may have left his skates last night, but honestly who cares? I believe a certain Preds player does it 99% of the time when he hits, and you never hear about him being suspended for any of them. Point is, Tootoo and most of the other Preds play dirty, so why not give it back to them a little? And it's not like the hit by Kronner last night was super dirty either, personally I'm glad we have someone who isn't afraid to put them on their backs, make sure they know if they come across the Wings zone, they'd better keep their heads up.

[jpfalcon09 0]

I'm not concerned, but if the Wings play the same way Wednesday night then I will be. Game 4 may very well be the series if the cards fall right. The Wings pulled sort of the same thing last year against Calgary, winning 2 at home and then losing 2 at Calgary. I don't want to see a repeat of that this series. Leave no doubts tomorrow and close it out Friday.

[VM1138 1,921]

One last thing.

Babcock trying to play Scotty Bowman isnt working for us either. Why mess with success. Whats with his love for hartigan and sammy? Whey wouldnt he just let Ozzie finish up the season and start the playoffs? Why is downy sitting and not beating the piss outta tootoo every shift?

There are too many things to list, but these are a few that piss me off. Oh and for god sake sit Lillypads ass for lebda if he wont use his size to lay the wood. Lebda is much faster and brings alot of things Lilja doesnt have, like speed and puck control.

I don't know why Hartigan plays, but Sammy shoots the puck and has been playing pretty well. Downey isn't playing because Downey isn't a good hockey player. I love the guy, but we can't waste much needed roster space for a guy who will only "send messages." The Wings just sat back last night, simple as that. They'll learn. Babcock especially learns. We will adapt and win. I think Datsyuk and Zetterberg go back together. Our secondary scoring is workign whether they play together or not. Let them focus on ZDH and have our other 3 lines light it up.

[Hank 0]

I'm not concerned, but if the Wings play the same way Wednesday night then I will be. Game 4 may very well be the series if the cards fall right. The Wings pulled sort of the same thing last year against Calgary, winning 2 at home and then losing 2 at Calgary. I don't want to see a repeat of that this series. Leave no doubts tomorrow and close it out Friday.

I was really hoping for a sweep. The West is so tough and competive that sweeping a team that isn't on the Left-Coast would give the Wings a much needed breather before moving on to the next round.

Lets hope the Wings can close this series out on Friday.

Edited April 15, 2008 by Hank

[fastballspecial 0]

I think the only thing the Wings were guilty of is trying to sit on a one goal lead, which EVERYONE knows is probably the biggest mistake a team can make. You can place your bets on that not happening again this series.

Sometimes the pucks going to take bounces against a team, in this series it's been bouncing against both teams, a lot. Hasek probably should've had Suter's goal, but the other ones were just team defense brain farts. I don't understand the point of pinching on a play though, when you're trying to sit on a one goal lead. That's the only part that doesn't add up to me.

[Packer487 3]

A) You would expect "The Dominator" to not come out stinking just as bad if not worse than the team in a must win Game 6 Conference Final Game. Isn't that the allure of Hasek? He's the guy who wins the must win games? But no, he played pretty bad and even when the Wings started turning it around in the 3rd he couldn't get going and gave up another easy goal to further dampen our chances.

I would. He didn't play well in that game. But the team didn't help him all that much, and they sure as hell didn't help him the game before when he WAS on his game and we still lost 2-1. Blame him for Game 6 all you want to, just be sure to point out that the game before he gave us a chance to take a stranglehold on the series and the offense puckered.

B) The defense really sucked, I'm hardly arguing that fact at all.

Hardly mentioning it either...

C) It's not that Hasek sucks, it's that people talk like he's so great and all and he's just getting screwed by the defense. I'm sorry, that's just not realistic. He's played fairly well at times, but that's about where it ends. He's played below average a lot this year. He's been injured a lot and that doesn't help. He's 43 years old. That doesn't help. This pattern has continued thus far in the playoffs. If you're going to sit her for a second and tell me we're going to get anywhere with average goaltending at best, you're just kidding yourself. Again, I ain't trying to just hate on him or cast all the blame on him because there's plenty to go around, but people who are unwilling to admit to the fact that he's become a weak link are just living in a state of denial. The defense could literally evaporate into thin air and there's no excuse for giving up 2 goals in such short time spans 3 times in 2 games in the playoffs let alone the regular season. Wake up.

Who exactly talks about how he's so great and all? I didn't see the first two games but I heard he played really well. And no matter how you slice it, putting up the numbers he did from December through Mid-March and the numbers that he put up against playoff teams this year...it's not being below average a lot. He was below average against the Hawks a lot. I'll give you that.

He also hasn't been a weak link. 1 of the 4 goals he allowed last night was bad. If that makes him a weak link, then so were Stuart, Kronwall, Chelios, Lilja (well...), and any forward that missed on a good scoring chance, Babcock for calling for a line change 3 seconds after the puck dropped, Rafalski, etc. It's waaaay too easy to blame the goalie when there were a lot of guys who played like s*** last night. There's no goalie in the league that is stopping that shot by Arnott. Hasek gave him almost nothing to shoot at and the guy made a perfect shot.

By the same token, exactly what did you want him to do on the second goal? The defense essentially DID evaporate into thin air on that one, but you still demand he make that save? Give me a break. Stuart went Leeeeroy Jenkins and ran out of the zone and Kronwall did absolutely nothing to help. No one is making that save unless they guess absolutely perfectly.

We won't go anywhere with average goaltending + bad defense + less than stellar offense, that much is true. That's what we had last night. It's still only one game. I'll ask all the people that are flipping out once again: Anyone want to make a bet on Nashville beating us 3 of 4 to win the series?

Again, Turco and Fleury are the only two goalies in the playoffs who haven't lost a game. All the guys frequently mentioned in the "Why can't we have a guy like XXXX" conversations (Giguere, Kipper, Luongo, maybe Nabokov, Brodeur) haven't exactly set the world on fire (or in Luongo's case, even made the playoffs). We weren't going 16-0 and I knew this board was going to be just lovely when we finally dropped a game. Calm the hell down. We're still winning this series in 5...6 at absolute most. Did anyone really want to be off for a week or more anyway? Good way to kill momentum.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

I honestly can't see why anyone would complain about Kronner laying monster hits like that. Sure, he may have left his skates last night, but honestly who cares?

I do. I care.

Look, I'm one of the biggest fans of physical play around. But, when it's dirty and calloused like Kronwall's big two hits have been this series, I have a major problem with it. There are ways to accomplish what he wants to accomplish (i.e. establishing a physical tone) without jumping into the air and elbowing guys in the face. That style of play isn't tough or intimidating. It's s***ty and careless.

So, yeah, let's knock some guys around and make them a little uneasy. But is it too much to ask that we also do it legally? I don't think so.

[Xitium 272]

I do. I care.

Look, I'm one of the biggest fans of physical play around. But, when it's dirty and calloused like Kronwall's big two hits have been this series, I have a major problem with it. There are ways to accomplish what he wants to accomplish (i.e. establishing a physical tone) without jumping into the air and elbowing guys in the face. That style of play isn't tough or intimidating. It's s***ty and careless.

So, yeah, let's knock some guys around and make them a little uneasy. But is it too much to ask that we also do it legally? I don't think so.

I didn't notice anything wrong with Kronners' hit last night?

IIRC, he left his feet after he completed the hit.

[RedWingsFanatic 4]

Not only did it appear that he left his feet during the hit, he completely clocked the guy with his elbow. It's just not a dumb move.

[Xitium 272]

Not only did it appear that he left his feet during the hit, he completely clocked the guy with his elbow.

I was able to find a youtube vid of the hit. You're right, and it did look like he was head-hunting a bit.

After a second look, it looks like he was trying to hit with his shoulder, and Radek was trying to duck the hit and ended up taking mostly elbow.

Edited April 15, 2008 by Xitium

[Third Man In 2,091]

Not only did it appear that he left his feet during the hit, he completely clocked the guy with his elbow. It's just not a dumb move.

Here's a video that shows the hit about eight different times--I'm not going to play the still frame game to illustrate my point.

To me, it seems clear that Kronner's feet are on the ice before impact, and that as he follows through the force of the impact, and Bonk going under him, is what takes him off his feet.

You have more of a point about the elbow. Kronwall does lead with his forearm/elbow, but he also doesn't raise it way up to hit Bonk in the head. But Bonk also ducks into it.

Edit: lol Xitium just posted the exact same video to illustrate a slightly different point. But I stand by mine. Get your head up Bonk!

Edited April 15, 2008 by Third Man In

[Guest ForeChecK]

Who cares if he did or not?

Its playoffs, Stuff happens. Regular season you wont see Kronner doing it, Relish the moment that we have.