I'm Scared...

[Nightfall 871]

I find the conspiracy theory thoughts here as well as the Penguins fans moaning about "obstruction" and the fans of both teams going back and forth yapping at each other pretty lame as well.

I know there is a fan aspect of the game and I'm all for friendly trash talk and ribbing on each other and things like that, but some of the yapping back and forth between the teams' fans has gotten pretty absurd at times. Part of me wants this series to end Monday/ASAP just to put an end to all of these shenanigans (that's a word I haven't said/typed in a long while ) from the fans of both teams.

It will end only until the Wings come back for the 08-09 season. Then it all starts over again.

[Guest nutz2u]

The only thing Bettman gets sweaty over is the thought of Cindy Crosby.

Chicken hawk just gets a little sweaty about Cindy. His real passion is b4 puberty, creep's a pedophile.

[dicksmack 33]

One of the nice things about overcoming questionable reffing and winning is that you can thumb your nose at them: "Nice try but we still won"...

[Nightfall 871]

One of the nice things about overcoming questionable reffing and winning is that you can thumb your nose at them: "Nice try but we still won"...

Wings fans would never be happy with the reffing unless the wings got 20 power plays to the penguins 2.

Only then would it be a well reffed game to the Wings fans.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

What's the other part of you want? To go to game 7? Goodness...

As a die hard fan of a sports team, doesn't matter if it's the Red Wings or any other team, wanting a series to go to 7 games when you want your team to win it all is a pretty ridiculous wish to fathom.

[dicksmack 33]

Wings fans would never be happy with the reffing unless the wings got 20 power plays to the penguins 2.

Only then would it be a well reffed game to the Wings fans.

As it was, 8 to 4 is one-sided... So it's nice to flip off the refs since we still won!

[GreatBallsOfFire 0]

Huge win for Detroit last night. They deserve a lot of credit for again forcing the Pens into playing their style of game and hanging on to win it in a close fought game. The Pens could not answer the bell when needed and are now really up against it down 3-1, but it ain't over just yet. Obviously the 5 on 3 was a golden opportunity wasted, but its good to see at least a couple Wings fans here admit it was a legitimate call and I hope that Wings fans also can finally admit the obstruction that occured previously was legitimate as well.

Last night there were by my count at least 4 indisputable obstruction calls against the Wings that the refs made and they were exactly the type that Therrien was complaining about in games 1 & 2 which were going uncalled. I'm not saying they were the deciding factor in those first 2 games, but they existed nonetheless, and Therrien was forced to put pressure on the refs to pay better attention to it whether he wanted to or not. He may have come across as whining, but its the SCF and the coach has to stick up for his team if he thinks the playing field is tilted to one side more than the other. Last nights game proved yet again that the Wings do in fact employ subtle obstruction play to compliment their stellar team skill play and that is a big reason they are 1 win from raising the Cup.

Even though the Pens lost I'm glad they did so on a level playing field last night and the game was all the more entertaining as a result.

[Mule Train 0]

Wings fans would never be happy with the reffing unless the wings got 20 power plays to the penguins 2.

Only then would it be a well reffed game to the Wings fans.

I'd be a lot happier if all the ticky-tack garbage didn't get called an we would play mostly five on five. There are way too many PPs in the new NHL. I think that it puts way too much emphasis on special teams and not enough on team play.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Mule Train

[Firehawk 305]

Wings fans would never be happy with the reffing unless the wings got 20 power plays to the penguins 2.

Only then would it be a well reffed game to the Wings fans.

They'd be complaining that we still obstructed and got away with it...

I seriously don't think they know what obstruction is. I saw some fans on the Pens board saying that they considered obstruction when the forechecker is headed into the corner to get the puck, and the defender is even with him (body beside body) and the defender lays a hand or something on the Pen player.

I mean, yes, ideally, you would prefer no player ever takes their hands off of their stick. But in reality, that's not what the obstruction call is meant for. Obstruction is hooking away from the puck, grabbing a player nowhere near the puck, cutting someone off and doing it by going out of your way to do it, impeding a player to the puck when you have no intention of going for it yourself to defend, etc. All of these examples are examples of obstruction. You can go into the corner with teh forechecker, trying to gain position (as long as you don't bearhug or somthing, which falls under trying to impede without intent of getting the puck specifically).

[Firehawk 305]

I'd be a lot happier if all the ticky-tack garbage didn't get called an we would play mostly five on five. There are way too many PPs in the new NHL. I think that it puts way too much emphasis on special teams and not enough on team play.

The pens can't handle Detroit 5 on 5, so the shots on goal at the end of the game would be something like 35-6 in Detroit's favor, if zero penalties were called on the Red Wings.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

I'm just really not worried in the slightest, the pens even with the help of the refs can't touch us on our home ice.

Go Wings!!

[kylee 727]

I'm not worried anymore. We took the best shot the refs could throw at us tonight and still came out with the W.

exactly. Yesterday's game was called HORRIBLY and im not one to hardly ever complain about refs but the Wings still made it happen. i think the inevitable has already begun. I think the Wings cannot be stopped on monday at home with a chance to win the Cup.

[Mule Train 0]

The pens can't handle Detroit 5 on 5, so the shots on goal at the end of the game would be something like 35-6 in Detroit's favor, if zero penalties were called on the Red Wings.

Yes I know. That's why I would like to see it. It would be a real eye opener for the Crosby nation.

[Nightfall 871]

As it was, 8 to 4 is one-sided... So it's nice to flip off the refs since we still won!

Incorrect.

16 PIMs for Detroit

10 PIMs for Pitt

Total power play chances were 5-3 in the Penguins favor according to the box scores. Helps to read those before you just toss out random numbers to try to justify your point.

As someone who watched that game last night, and a Wings fan mind you, I have to agree with the calls the refs made. I probably could have called more against both teams, but I am not out there with the refs shirt on.

I have to agree with other posters here that the bulk of hockey fans don't know what obstruction and other hockey penalties are. Heck, some rec hockey refs don't know what what some penalities are. Sometimes its just a defenseman getting body position on someone thats called interference. These NHL refs watch game tape all the time. This is their full time job and they care about it.

Some people don't want to see the "ticky tacky" crap called. Oh, only if its against the opposing team. Against our team, that crap better NOT be called. Look at all the times when Holmstrom is shoved in front of the net, or hit in the back, or hit in the back of the legs by the goalie. All that should be called. However, when they are in front of our net and we cross check the crap out of them, that shouldn't be called.

As I said before, the winning team or fans of the team don't complain about the reffing. Its always the losing one that *******. Same for last night. Crosby complained about the obstruction.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Nightfall

[GreatBallsOfFire 0]

I'm just really not worried in the slightest, the pens even with the help of the refs can't touch us on our home ice.

Go Wings!!

..and Pens fans were saying exactly the same thing going into game 4. Home ice is way overated. Pens can win in Detroit if they outhustle them like they did in game 3, but to win 3 in a row against them now will be extremely difficult.

Why would ANY Detroit fan be worried at this point? You're up 3-1.

[NHLrules? 32]

How many times did a pit player run into Ozzie the last two games?

How many times was it called?

I have no problem with calling penalties as long as it is consistent through out. These calls change from minute to minute.

[Mule Train 0]

Incorrect.

Some people don't want to see the "ticky tacky" crap called. Oh, only if its against the opposing team. Against our team, that crap better NOT be called. Look at all the times when Holmstrom is shoved in front of the net, or hit in the back, or hit in the back of the legs by the goalie. All that should be called. However, when they are in front of our net and we cross check the crap out of them, that shouldn't be called.

Since you used my quote let me say it straight out: I do not consider stick fouls to be ticky tack crap. If you choose to break your stick over the back or arm of the opposing player; you go to the box. I don't care if you are Orpik or Lidstrom. You take the conseqences of your actions. Run someones head into the board - into the bin. These are not subjective calls.

Obstruction, on the other hand, is generally nothing but a free pass for referees to equalize a game. It happens over and over again from the drop of the puck at the first game of the season to the last minute of the SCF. It gives the officials a way to gerrymander games without being totally obvious. Again - if we commit the penalty - we man up and take the seat. Don't assume that everyone who ******* about the absymal officiating and lack of consistancy is such a total homer that they think the home team commits no penalties. Fix the consistancy issues in officiating and I will have no further complaint.

[Nightfall 871]

Since you used my quote let me say it straight out: I do not consider stick fouls to be ticky tack crap. If you choose to break your stick over the back or arm of the opposing player; you go to the box. I don't care if you are Orpik or Lidstrom. You take the conseqences of your actions. Run someones head into the board - into the bin. These are not subjective calls.

Obstruction, on the other hand, is generally nothing but a free pass for referees to equalize a game. It happens over and over again from the drop of the puck at the first game of the season to the last minute of the SCF. It gives the officials a way to gerrymander games without being totally obvious. Again - if we commit the penalty - we man up and take the seat. Don't assume that everyone who ******* about the absymal officiating and lack of consistancy is such a total homer that they think the home team commits no penalties. Fix the consistancy issues in officiating and I will have no further complaint.

I used your quote because you were incorrect in your 8-4 count in power play chances in an attempt to show referee favoritism toward one team. As for your comments....

I agree with your analysis in your first paragraph. Anyone who breaks their stick by slashing or hitting someone across the back in a cross check should be calls. Truth be told, it is called a vast majority of the time.

Obstruction is something that should be called if it is blatant. Setting picks is for basketball, not hockey. If you can't recognize it, then I won't spend the time trying to explain it to you.

You are right though, I shouldn't assume that everyone who ******* about the abysmal officiating and lack of consistancy is a total homer. However, it sure sounds like it when you read the people voicing their opinions on this forum, on the radio, and around the watercooler. First off, its extremely rare to hear someone complain about the reffing if their team wins. During the course of a game, its rare that I hear a wings fan agree with a call against their team.

In the end, there is no fixing these "consistency issues" you speak of. The game is reffed by human beings, and if we have learned anything, humans are inconsistent. The game is played at such a fast pace. Its impossible the same game will be called the same by every ref out there. Your definition of consistency is totally different than mine, or Bettman's, or Colin Campbells for that matter. Its what makes hockey a very passionate sport among the players and fans.

My criticism comes from reffing at the rec league level and hearing these same complaints all the time. No matter what you do, its a losing battle. No matter how much you do to study tape, learn from your mistakes, and work hard at being the best ref out there. The NHL refs do this full time, and in my mind, they are the best refs of any sport out there bar none.

Anyone who wants to complain about the reffing should be a ref in hockey already to even know what its like before they talk. Everyone else should just do what the players do. ***** about it, which happens already, and take a seat. The conspiracy theories are just stupid, and pulling numbers out of your ass to try to justify that the calls were going against your team is even moreso.

[Mule Train 0]

I used your quote because you were incorrect in your 8-4 count in power play chances in an attempt to show referee favoritism toward one team.

I pretty much agree with all except the above. This wasn't my quote. If anything, I think there are way too many PPs on both sides of the ledger. My complaints along these lines are primarily with the 'we just got a goal so you KNOW within a minute we are going to be on the PK' type calls. On face this happens way too often and smacks of referees trying to even up. It happens on both sides.

[DaKineMaui 8]

I rewatched the game immediately after the interviews ended, and you can see Crosby jump at Lilja and promptly fall down. He was attempting to get a call rather than making a hockey move.

:::NOTE to admin/mods: Please delete my post immediately, in that, I'm about to stick up for Andreas Lilja. I beg you - I will hit a hot shower after hitting [ADD REPLY]::::

Correct - I jumped off the fricken' couch when I saw the arm go up. Sid the God might be trying to (1) accept a pass, -OR (2) just chip it deep and go chase. Ummmm, was Lilly spoda stop and ask Cindy what his plan was?

Answer: NO! Put a ******* hip into him!

Lilja performed a "body-check". And should have. And should continue to do the EXACT same thing.

Gah!....now I feel dirty.

[Williams29fan 6]

I think the wings are coming out fired up... even with the refs... I dont think the pens can win game 5! I am not scared.

[Nightfall 871]

I pretty much agree with all except the above. This wasn't my quote. If anything, I think there are way too many PPs on both sides of the ledger. My complaints along these lines are primarily with the 'we just got a goal so you KNOW within a minute we are going to be on the PK' type calls. On face this happens way too often and smacks of referees trying to even up. It happens on both sides.

You are right. Dicksmack is the guy I quoted so I apologize.

You would enjoy playing hockey at this place I know. The refs don't call anything....and I mean they let everything go. Even some blatant high sticks don't get called. I played hockey out there a few times, and as a goalie, you have to be ready to get hit in your crease, hooked behind the skate and upended, and interfered with at least 2 times during the course of one game.

Personally, I believe that you can't put a number on how many penalities they should call in a game. Some games are clean. Others require a ton of penalty calls. You think there are way too many PP chances, and I agree and disagree. I have seen some games that are very cleanly played where it seems like the refs are looking for calls to make. Other games need MUCH more penalties called than the refs actually do call.

As for your "we just got a goal so we are going to get called next" thought, I don't agree with it. There really is no hard facts to back that up. You remember when it happens to you, but you don't remember when you get 4 power play chances in a row and net 3 goals off them. IMO, it all depends on how the players play and react. After you get a goal scored on you, the other team is trying to get momentum back so maybe the team that scored gets sloppy in their own end. Who knows.....

Point is, its not the refs who manipulate the outcome of a game. The players do that.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. Why some people on this board believe the NHL have it out for the the wings, or love the Pens, Preds, Stars, or Avalanche is beyond me. Especially since we are 1 win away from lifting the cup.

[dicksmack 33]

Incorrect.

16 PIMs for Detroit

10 PIMs for Pitt

Total power play chances were 5-3 in the Penguins favor according to the box scores. Helps to read those before you just toss out random numbers to try to justify your point.

As someone who watched that game last night, and a Wings fan mind you, I have to agree with the calls the refs made. I probably could have called more against both teams, but I am not out there with the refs shirt on.

I have to agree with other posters here that the bulk of hockey fans don't know what obstruction and other hockey penalties are. Heck, some rec hockey refs don't know what what some penalities are. Sometimes its just a defenseman getting body position on someone thats called interference. These NHL refs watch game tape all the time. This is their full time job and they care about it.

Some people don't want to see the "ticky tacky" crap called. Oh, only if its against the opposing team. Against our team, that crap better NOT be called. Look at all the times when Holmstrom is shoved in front of the net, or hit in the back, or hit in the back of the legs by the goalie. All that should be called. However, when they are in front of our net and we cross check the crap out of them, that shouldn't be called.

As I said before, the winning team or fans of the team don't complain about the reffing. Its always the losing one that *******. Same for last night. Crosby complained about the obstruction.

No, it's right. The one call for delay of game doesn't count to me, since it's non-discretionary; and you counted the 5 on 3 as one pp whereas I didn't. I counted the # of calls against per team minus the and automatic DOG call. If you factor out the coincidentals, you get:

6 for the Wings, 2 for the Pens. With a quick cut/paste:

PENALTY SUMMARY

1st Period

1) 02:11

Dallas Drake : Roughing - 2 min

2) 05:04

Pascal Dupuis : Cross checking - 2 min

2) 09:03

Brian Rafalski : Roughing - 2 min

3) 14:28

Kris Draper : Holding - 2 min

16:59

Maxime Talbot : Diving - 2 min

16:59

Brett Lebda : Cross checking - 2 min

17:55

Brooks Orpik : Roughing - 2 min

17:55

Johan Franzen : Elbowing - 2 min

2nd Period

2) 03:44

Jordan Staal : Interference - 2 min

4) 16:04

Brian Rafalski : Holding - 2 min

3rd Period

04:08

Marc-Andre Fleury served by Marian Hossa : Delay of game - 2 min

5) 09:36

Kirk Maltby : Hooking - 2 min

6) 10:10

Andreas Lilja : Interference - 2 min

This proves nothing but suggests that the Pens had the calls going their way for this game. And they still lost haha... and I think they are done for... But I think the refs should give 5 on 3's in the finals with non-borderline calls...

[BowHuntingFool 0]

The only thing Bettman gets sweaty over is the thought of Cindy Crosby.

HAAAHAHAAAAAHAAAA! Thats a good one! Classic!

[Inultus 12]

Why would ANY Detroit fan be worried at this point? You're up 3-1.

Dunno, I'm not worried. I even think the Wings will win tomorrow and I will partially disagree with you because although I think home ice is overrated, this game is special because if we win it, we have Stanley at home and the players all know that, therefore they will play extra hard.