Lilja gone?

[B.B. 0]

Well, I would much rather have Lilja than Chelli, and I think Lilja is about as good a #6/7 Dman as you can have in this era. But, honestly, why would Lilja WANT to come back? He won his championship, and now he gets his final chance to cash in on a pretty good contract. On a bad team, he could easily play top 4 minutes and get paid more than he would here. If he re-signed with us, there really is no guarantee that he would see the ice. I doubt Lilja wants to come back (regardless what he says), and since we seem to be offering Chelli a contract, then I think Lilja walks.

Even if/when? Stuart walks, I think we will go out and grab another #4 defensemen, and would have no bearing on whether or not Lilja comes back. Lilja has been given plenty of opportunities to play on the second pairing, but has struggled. And, I don't think it is a coincidence that Kronwall really excelled once he started to play with a real #4 D-man in Stuart. Lilja is prolly gone if you ask me.

[Feldmarschall 9]

The whole situation is quite the clusterf*ck and pretty impossible to predict. For the sake of discussion, let's assume that Lebda stays in Detroit, as he's locked up through the 09-10 season. With that in mind, everything hinges on three players in our system - Lilja, Chelios, and Stuart. Keep in mind that's 3 of our 7 active defensemen. Pretty significant UFA class, really. If any of the three should leave, it'll mean change.

For Chelios or Lilja to go (or both) it means losing an active PKer but getting to keep Meech and Quincey.

For Stuart to go, we're missing a #4 guy that plays in all situations, except when Sammy takes his spot on the #2 PP unit. That vulnerability makes Lilja both important (as depth) and expendable (at a projected contract of $1.5 million), because we could use the cap space to pick up another top-four guy.

If the Wings can keep their entire roster intact for next season, we'll lose some unproven players in Meech and/or Quincey, Ericsson will spend more time in the AHL, and we soldier on with seven/eight active defensemen on the roster. If not, the org has to decide who is worth keeping, who is not, and what holes have to be filled. It's a business - I'm sure Holland, Nill, and Babcock are capable of handling any of those situations with aplomb. Let's all just try to be patient and wait.

For what it's worth, I'd prefer seeing either Lilja or Chelios gone and Meech given time as a #6/#7 guy. He was really great in February and I think he's plenty hungry enough after a whole season as a healthy scratch. Quincey just didn't seem impressive enough to warrant tossing a Cup veteran out for his sake.

Edit - Point I'm trying to make here is that there are just too many variables, and it pisses me off.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Feldmarschall

[Guest redwingsfan04]

our defense is in a log jam

Lilly or chelly has to leave i vote LILS off the island chelly can help mentor our prospects! IMO

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Not a joke, it's true.

I'm not saying that Lilja doesn't have positives. Every NHLer does. However, he doesn't do the "good things" with enough consistency to outweigh the bad things.

I don't understand how posters can say, "well, he hits people" while ignoring his glaring turnovers.

I mean, if we had a guy who punched a referee in the face every time he scored a goal, thus earning multiple suspensions, I have a feeling several posters would defend him by saying "but he scores!" Yes, and he is often suspended for multiple games at a time, thus limiting his value. Lilja hits--so did Gord Kruppke.

It's called player evaluation, and in the role that the Wings have him playing vs. the team's long term plan, Lilja is a blockade to prospect development. But hey, I bet Slava Fetisov could still block some shots with 10 minutes a game. Why not pair him with Lilja. (That's not a knock on Fetisov). Give one spot to a kid; if they need more seasoning, maybe we bring back the "Pain Train" at Christmas-- just in time for him to give a gift of a turnover goal to a divisional opponent.

My point was that nobody is ignoring the mistakes Lilja makes. The are flaunted constantly on LGW. He and Sammy are the two Wings that people here are the hardest on, and no one in their right mind would think that Lilja is given a free pass simply because he blocks shots.

The fact of the matter is he's a solid PK'er, blocks an ass-load of shots, and plays well in his role as a number 6 man. Of course he makes more mistakes than our top 4 guys do, but every 6th man in the league makes them or else they wouldn't be a number 6 guy. Keep in mind how crappy Lebda was in the early rounds of this years playoffs and how bad Cheli was toward the end.

Now, if were talking bringing some kid up that can take his spot.....that's understandable. However, keep in mind that you will lose some of that PK experience and a good amount of shot blocking. Will the good outweigh the bad...probably in the long run, but this team is built to win it all again next year. Don't forget that.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

our defense is in a log jam

Lilly or chelly has to leave i vote LILS off the island chelly can help mentor our prospects! IMO

I really have a hard time following this reasoning when the Wings have Lidstrom on their team.

[egroen 384]

Um, so who is the 4th D-man on the PK if Lilja goes?

Chelios and Quincey.

In the playoffs last year, Quincey had decent ice time, and I did not notice any glaring mistakes like Lilja -- plus he is ten years younger than Lilja, so you have some room for improvement. I think we have seen as good as Lilja is going to get. Plus, Quincey will be a lot cheaper.

He was also up this year when our defense was decimated and was playing as much as 18 minutes a game... again, for the most part he was not noticeable -- just about everything you could hope for from a stay-at-home defenseman.

Losing Quincey for Lilja would seem like a mistake to me. Sure, it is a little more risky, but the reward is higher as well.

... and Quincey fights.

[Opie 308]

I honestly think the D will shake down like this:

-Stuart resigns for about 250k discount around 3.25-3.5 m a year for 3 years (with Ralf and Kronner up in 4 you don't want your top 3, at that time lids probably will be in the rafters, coming up in the same year).

-Lilja is picked up by another team, becomes a solid #5 d-man and some wings fans blame Holland for getting rid of a solid D-man, after all this is LGW.com!

-Quincey and Cheli take turns with Cheli seeing more time than Quincey.

-Ericsson plays the #5 role for the majority of the season with Meech giving the youngster a rest when he can.

So it looks something like this when healthy

Lids Ralf

Stuart Kronwall

Ericsson Cheli

Meech Quincey

I left Lebda off because I see the wings packaging him and Sammy (now that Mule has shown what he can do) for a gritty winger to play the 4th line ala Drake!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

He didn't cost us a SEASON this year. He did a year ago. Do we just want to hope that he doesn't next year?

Lilja did not cost the Wings the season last year any more than a failed clearing attempt or a late game penalty did. All three of those things should be held in the same discussion if people are so narrow-minded as to say one play cost the Wings the season.

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

Lilja did not cost the Wings the season last year any more than a failed clearing attempt or a late game penalty did. All three of those things should be held in the same discussion if people are so narrow-minded as to say one play cost the Wings the season.

Brilliant post. (No sarcasm, I mean it.)

[Guest Crymson]

Lilja already turned down a two-year offer. He's gone.

Lilja is in general lazy and careless and I do not like it when he is on the ice.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Crymson

[Guest mindfly]

Lilja already turned down a two-year offer. He's gone.

Lilja is in general lazy and careless and I do not like it when he is on the ice.

YAY! I hope it's true! you have any source???

[chrisdetroit 189]

It think Lilja is waiting on Stuart. If Stewie signs, Lilja walks because he is a #5 at best after that when he can be top 4 on another team (a bad team, I know). This is what I hope happens so we can bring in Ericsson, he's ready. No, he won't be a Kronwall his first year, but........neither was Kronwall. Remember that.

Here we go again. Everybody loves Ericsson because he's big. But he isn't ready. Patience....

[Opie 308]

According to Babs he was ready this year? So what makes you think Ericsson isn't ready?

Are you some sort of super scout that knows more than Babs?

[Guest mindfly]

According to Babs he was ready this year? So what makes you think Ericsson isn't ready?

Are you some sort of super scout that knows more than Babs?

Maybe he was just being politically correct at those press conferences

[chrisdetroit 189]

I honestly think the D will shake down like this:

-Stuart resigns for about 250k discount around 3.25-3.5 m a year for 3 years (with Ralf and Kronner up in 4 you don't want your top 3, at that time lids probably will be in the rafters, coming up in the same year).

-Lilja is picked up by another team, becomes a solid #5 d-man and some wings fans blame Holland for getting rid of a solid D-man, after all this is LGW.com!

-Quincey and Cheli take turns with Cheli seeing more time than Quincey.

-Ericsson plays the #5 role for the majority of the season with Meech giving the youngster a rest when he can.

So it looks something like this when healthy

Lids Ralf

Stuart Kronwall

Ericsson Cheli

Meech Quincey

I left Lebda off because I see the wings packaging him and Sammy (now that Mule has shown what he can do) for a gritty winger to play the 4th line ala Drake!

You are going to take a guy directly from the AHL with 3 games of NHL experience and make him the #4 D-man on the best team in the league?!

You my friend are on drugs.

[Opie 308]

You are going to take a guy directly from the AHL with 3 games of NHL experience and make him the #4 D-man on the best team in the league?!

You my friend are on drugs.

You my friend need to learn to read,

Ericsson is in the 3rd pairing and in Detroit the 3rd pairing sees the least minutes.

Lids #1

Ralf #2

Kronwall #3

Stuart #4

Cheli/Ericsson/Meech/Quincey depending on who is playing will all be 5 or 6.

So who is on drugs again?

And as seen in this post season there were even times when Lids and Ralf were taking turns on the 3rd pairing.

Not sure how you saw Ericsson on the 3rd pairing and instantly thought 4th d-man?

Edited June 10, 2008 by Opie

[TheOctopusKid 19]

I think we are overlooking how operationally effective the Red Wings.

There is precedence of this time and time again that the Red Wings allow their prospects time to prove themselves, anywhere from 1-3 years and are either dealt, allowed to walk away due to contract negotiations, or are signned to a long term contract.

Andreas Lilja is a boarderline player. Yes, he does have value in the fact that he does sacrifice his body in terms of blocking shots however it is his potential as an overall player that continually devalue him to the organization. His time has come, he has been determined to be a 5th-6th defensemen and was offered salary accordingly ($1M annually) and he believes he's worth more. To be honest, he'll probably get a larger, long term contract to play the 3rd or 4th spot with another team. I believe someone earlier stated that role players of championship teams are often overpaid in free agency.

The Wings' Front office is not dellusional. They know his value and they know how easily he can be replaced.

And I don't believe that anyone here believes that Ericsson will suddenly step up and play the 4th spot with as little experience he has. If Stuart does walk away, I suspect that the Wings will aggressively sign a veteren blueliner that can provide a fine year stopgap to allow them time to develop Kindl and Ericsson and hopefully one of the two will develop.

Chelios will be back at the minimum, but I suspect he will be in a three way rotation with Lebda and Ericsson for the 5th and 6th to allow them time to develop and spell Chelios for period of time to perserve his health and endurance.

At the end of the day, "gritty" players who are willing to throw their bodies at the puck during penalty kills are easy to find - any young player, excited to prove himself and make an impact will make up any shortcoming in skill with reckless abandon in hopes of impressing someone. Lilja will demand $2M, which would put him above Hudler and Franzen and a little less than Holmstrom and Draper. I don't think he is worth anywhere near that kind of salary hit.

[redwinger4747 6]

Maybe he was just being politically correct at those press conferences

Are you forgetting that Babcock went OUT OF HIS WAY to praise Ericsson? As in, there was no prompt, no question about Ericsson, nothing. Babcock just said, out of no where, "and we've got this guy Ericsson who I can't believe we don't dress because he's going to be a monster in this league." Umm..yeah I think that says a lot.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Lilja already turned down a two-year offer. He's gone.

Lilja is in general lazy and careless and I do not like it when he is on the ice.

Oh no! Another player branded with the Lazy™ tag!

Lilja isn't the most talented guy and makes some incredibly stupid moves on the ice, but lazy play is not among his faults.

Edited June 10, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Slave 31]

Lilja already turned down a two-year offer. He's gone.

Lilja is in general lazy and careless and I do not like it when he is on the ice.

if i were gm i would send him out, he played decent enough for us but i think we have to bring in some of the younger talent while we still have the real talent to help cover up some of the mistakes they may make, would hate to see lilja/cheli leave the same year and then god forbid an injury to the blueline that has us with only 3 or 4 dmen with any major experience.

and i hope we can sign stuart for about 3-3.5, if he turns it down i live about 40 minutes from rocky mountain house so i will drive out there and kick his ass or something

p.s and in the long run i am more worried about getting Filppula locked up long term then our D

[CrossoverThrash 0]

anybody notice the comical face lilja makes the the championship hat/shirt package commercial?

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

It all depends on Stuart - if he walks than Lilja may be offered a contract while the Wings shop for a #4 D-man and then try to assimilate him to their system. If Stuart signs I think Lilja is done.

The thing i dont like is We almost lose either one (Quincy - or - Lilja) depending if Stuart re - ups with us If he does we lose either one i think Im not sure the wings want to Let Quincey get away cause he cant be sent down to GR without clearing Waivers.. Do You think he has a snowballs chance or clearing I dont either and Lilja can go IMO he will want more than the wings will offer and its just not worth it to me

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

My point was that nobody is ignoring the mistakes Lilja makes. The are flaunted constantly on LGW. He and Sammy are the two Wings that people here are the hardest on, and no one in their right mind would think that Lilja is given a free pass simply because he blocks shots.

The fact of the matter is he's a solid PK'er, blocks an ass-load of shots, and plays well in his role as a number 6 man. Of course he makes more mistakes than our top 4 guys do, but every 6th man in the league makes them or else they wouldn't be a number 6 guy. Keep in mind how crappy Lebda was in the early rounds of this years playoffs and how bad Cheli was toward the end.

Now, if were talking bringing some kid up that can take his spot.....that's understandable. However, keep in mind that you will lose some of that PK experience and a good amount of shot blocking. Will the good outweigh the bad...probably in the long run, but this team is built to win it all again next year. Don't forget that.

Logic can be a scary thing sometimes.

It is somply amazing how when people just obsessively hate somebody that just about every time it clouds judgement in some form.

If you (not you specifically NFM as you can probably tell) think that Lilja solely and completely cost the Wings the 2006-07 season or game 5 of the WCF, you need to lay off the paint stripper. Did his muffed pass hurt? Without question. How about Franzen's failed clearing attempt late in that game though? Why does that get a pass? How about Lidstrom (of all people /sarcasm) putting his stick in the way to deflect the shot past Hasek which tied the game 1-1 late? Why does Lidstrom get a free pass then?

[croaker 0]

I'd let him go and give the playing time to any of the three youngsters that got into the middle of this season.

Meech showed Lebda like speed and offensive skills. Erickson is frickin huge and can move the puck like all the other Sweedes. Quincey was very effective when called upon.

Lilja makes me nervous as hell every shift out and he takes way too many minor penalties for the 1 or 2 hits he throws per game. i'd let him go.