Why not steal Shea Weber?

[Majsheppard 203]

Oh and get off yourself. Eva said he was no good. I was quoting someone who agreed with me and was telling someone else that Weber was NOT a 5th defensemen.

The term is what the team wanted, its what everyone wants. You want your guy to be a RFA. You want his contract to come up at 26 and not 27 so you don't have to compete with everyone, and if someone else does sign him they could get compensation. Holland does the same, you want those contracts up at 26 so you force the player to deal with you and you only at least once more.

Most cases of arbitration end up going there because of the term.

I agree with you that Pavel's contract ended up saving money, but I do not know if that trend will continue, will the cap continue to go up like this every year?

Also it is a big risk, what if Weber ends up being really bad (unlikely)? A 7 year contract would be devistating.

We gave Pavel 7 years because he was older then Weber, facing UFA, and we recognized he was a cornerstone that we couldn't let get away. Weber performs over this contract he will get a simular deal, if he wants it. It takes a club and a player to tango, or sign contracts.

As for me, I did see Franzen coming. I did see Kronner coming, and Zetter and Pavel. It is called forming an opinion. You know, like what you just did of me. The difference is I was right all those times. Go ahead and tell me some of my hair brained ideas. When I get something wrong I eat my crow with humble pie and ice cream. Like when I was optimistic with Bertuzzi and happy about Calder. You know for someone who likes to point out others misses, you sure don't like to recognize their hits.

I simply like conversation with civil and intellegent people, preferably with a sense of humor. You know, like if you read my posts and see that the concept of stealing Weber was because I would like to get Nashville. You know, funny joke. I think it is a nice change of pace from talking about Hossa every day, even though I know alot of people like to talk about him knowing its not going to happen and it is just a source of lighthearted fun.

And I will call you when Franzen has more then a half season, and a playoff worth of greatness. Athough I do think he was great in his own way before hand.

And if you disagree with that, then maybe you should change your Mule Avatar, don't want to look like a hippocrit now.

I don't want people to kiss my ass, well except maybe you right now.

All in good fun guy, remember we all bleed Red.

[eva unit zero 271]

I just do not understand how no one can ever recognize potential in players and their role on the team.

You know those badmouthing him are the same people who demanded Franzen be traded. I have heard from more then one spot that when Phanuef and Weber were being looked at together early by scouts, everyone agreed that Dion was polished and ready to be a factor but Shea would be right there with him in a handful of years. His progression seems to back that up.

Nashville made the playoffs because they had one of the best Defenses in the league from top to bottom. Obviously they don't have the top quality that we do, but they had top four dmen on the third paring. It really was like having 6 dmen that could be third dmen on other teams. Shea is undoubtably the number one guy for them down the line.

Nashville's top six defensemen from last season, arranged by number of shifts taken per game (most to least) as well as player age as of right now is as follows:

Dan Hamhuis, 25

Ryan Suter, 23

Greg DeVries, 35

Marek Zidlicky, 31

Shea Weber, 23

Greg Zanon, 28

Somehow, that doesn't suggest to me Weber rising up and becoming Nashville's top defenseman in a couple seasons. If you assume that young players will get better, and older players will decline, the best he is likely to do in the next few years is to be the #3 guy. Why? Because Nashville's top two defensemen are JUST AS YOUNG AS WEBER. Also notable is the fact that Weber was fifth among defensemen in PK ice time on the Preds, which suggests that he is not as defensively capable as Suter or Hamhuis, both of whom were PK mainstays for Nashville.

I get that Weber is a decent young guy...I just don't understand why people love him so much ahead of Hamhuis or Suter, who are more complete, more skilled defensemen in the same age group.

What did Weber do that anointed him as a 'future Norris contender' that Suter didn't do, given that Suter is the #2 defenseman while Weber is the #5, and Suter was drafted ahead of Weber in the same year?

I guess what I am complaining about is the unfounded hype for Weber and ONLY Weber. If Weber is going to be a perennial Norris contender...then Nashville has a dynasty in the making because there are two young guys who are more sure bets for the Norris than Shea.

EDIT: And btw...Weber's ice time and shifts per game, as well as his breakdown of ES/PP/PK time from last season rank him as no better than the #5 in 06-07, either. I never said Shea Weber was a #5 NHL defenseman; simply the #5 on Nashville. That much is a fact. Compared to Hamhuis and Suter, he is a defensive liability and his own coach doesn't consider him to be as good a player as those two. He has never been Nashville's best defenseman over the course of an entire season; he hasn't even been close. Why people are acting like he's some kind of hockey god because he's a decent young kid just baffles me.

Edited June 24, 2008 by eva unit zero

[Majsheppard 203]

I don't think I said he was going to be a Norris contender.

I don't disagree with you in that their core has alot of good young players.

Weber will however find himself on one of the top two parings, as well as a dominant fixture on the special teams.

I think its going to be Suter Weber

Dan and Zid

Zannon and DeVries

With DeVries on his way out sooner or later, and Zannon prob being classified as a top four defensemen as well.

Remember Top four defensemen don't necessarly have to play on the top two pairings. They can anchor the third paring and take extra shifts on special teams. Some teams play

1,3

2,5

4,6

in their parings.

My thinking is that their D was so good that they had some great players taking less ice time then they could on other teams even though they are young.

I think two of the best young (under 24) Defensemen are in the Central.

[Majsheppard 203]

And btw...Weber's ice time and shifts per game, as well as his breakdown of ES/PP/PK time from last season rank him as no better than the #5 in 06-07, either. I never said Shea Weber was a #5 NHL defenseman; simply the #5 on Nashville. That much is a fact. Compared to Hamhuis and Suter, he is a defensive liability and his own coach doesn't consider him to be as good a player as those two. He has never been Nashville's best defenseman over the course of an entire season; he hasn't even been close. Why people are acting like he's some kind of hockey god because he's a decent young kid just baffles me.

I always respected your looking at things by the books and getting the stats.

I agree with what your saying, a simple misunderstanding.

I don't think he is a hockey god, but he is pretty darn good, and has potential.

That is what I am always looking at, I have done some scouting in my day. A little for football and a little for hockey, nothing past high school level mind you, and I always look for upside and how to break it out.

I hope I am completely wrong about Shea, I HATE Nashville.

REALLY HATE THEM.

[eva unit zero 271]

I don't think I said he was going to be a Norris contender.

I don't disagree with you in that their core has alot of good young players.

Weber will however find himself on one of the top two parings, as well as a dominant fixture on the special teams.

I think its going to be Suter Weber

Dan and Zid

Zannon and DeVries

With DeVries on his way out sooner or later, and Zannon prob being classified as a top four defensemen as well.

Remember Top four defensemen don't necessarly have to play on the top two pairings. They can anchor the third paring and take extra shifts on special teams. Some teams play

1,3

2,5

4,6

in their parings.

My thinking is that their D was so good that they had some great players taking less ice time then they could on other teams even though they are young.

I think two of the best young (under 24) Defensemen are in the Central.

My rating of Weber as the #5 is based on the fact that other guys play more than him. It is not based on which pairing he is on. Perhaps I should have clarified and instead of sayign Weber was the #5, I should have said that "there are four guys on his team who play more than he does."

And as far as his value...Weber could sign a deal with the Wings and he would never see ice time in the top half on the first contract unless there were injuries. Given the kind of cash he would cost and the kind of compensation the Wings would have to give up weighed against what he would be providing to the team...Weber is, as I said before...COMPLETELY NOT WORTH IT.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

He played in 51 games last season. He was getting back to game speed in some of them as well. Next year, he will be the #2 or #1 defenceman on Nashville in every catagory. You should check out his 05/06 stats, and then his 06/07 stats and see why he is not a 5th defenceman.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

$4.5 million per for Shea Weber....No Thanks!

...if Nashville signs Weber for $4.5 million, say goodbye to Stuart...

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

My rating of Weber as the #5 is based on the fact that other guys play more than him. It is not based on which pairing he is on. Perhaps I should have clarified and instead of sayign Weber was the #5, I should have said that "there are four guys on his team who play more than he does."

And as far as his value...Weber could sign a deal with the Wings and he would never see ice time in the top half on the first contract unless there were injuries. Given the kind of cash he would cost and the kind of compensation the Wings would have to give up weighed against what he would be providing to the team...Weber is, as I said before...COMPLETELY NOT WORTH IT.

Eva, some of your statistics are wrong......as usual.

Not to nitpick but let's just clarify a couple of things

Last season Weber averaged 19:29 which was 4th, not 5th on the Preds and the only 2 Preds that averaged more shifts per game than Weber were Suter and Hamuis. I don't know how you missed that. Hamuis was the only Pred dman that averaged more shifts/game than Weber in the playoffs as well.

Your numbers are correct for 2006. Except you fail to acknowledge his 17 goals were tops for the Preds and his 40 points were second only to Timmonen. Despite getting the 5th most minutes he absolutely outshined the rest of his fellow dmen in offensive output. This from a guy who is also a bigger hitter and can kick the s*** out of Hamuis and Suter. Why is this important? Well, since you consider Hamuis and Suter to be better, why is it that they contributed far less. Weber is more physical, tougher and put up better numbers. Is that your indication that the other 2 are better than him?

Weber gets alot of time to contribute offensively. Frankly, Suter and Hamuis are probably a little better than him in their own end which can explain the couple of extra minutes they get per game. But given the total package, Weber provides intangibles that the other 2 do not. Suter in my opinion has been a semi-bust. I thought he'd be more prolific. Hamuis is nothing special but a pretty good 2 way guy. IMO, Weber has the most potential and given 100% health will likely be the most productive of the 3 again next season.

We'll see if 4.5 is too much in time. If it is I'll come back here and eat crow. If it isn't you can add this to the list of things i've been right about and you've been wrong about. You might need another sheet of paper though.

[nkuehnl 0]

Weber could sign a deal with the Wings and he would never see ice time in the top half on the first contract unless there were injuries.

Are you really saying Lilja, Lebda, Chelios, and Meech are all better than Weber? Really? Really?

Weber would immediately step in and share the #3 duties on the depth chart with Kronwall. It is also practically a guarantee that Weber will be better than Kronwall over their respective careers. Weber is already better offensively, and he has the tools to be better defensively as well.