Wings current rank

[Hiei 192]

Just THINKING about the red wings potential this season gives me a ******

Edited July 6, 2008 by Hiei

[egroen 384]

According to that research paper:

Datsyuk was right-priced at $6.7 million and the two expensive defensemen, Lidstrom and Rafalski, were not far above fair price.

.... so his numbers show that Lidstrom, with 70 pts and a run away Norris win was "not far above his fair price"?

Crap, we've been overpaying Lidstrom!

As for Osgood, I would say he is easily the best value in the league for goalies. His salary is a complete steal.

[RedFX 48]

Sometimes, but not in all cases.

They can be the worst team in the NHL the next season, but they still have the Cup, and you still need to first get through them to get the cup.

[Guest Four]

According to that research paper:

.... so his numbers show that Lidstrom, with 70 pts and a run away Norris win was "not far above his fair price"?

Crap, we've been overpaying Lidstrom!

As for Osgood, I would say he is easily the best value in the league for goalies. His salary is a complete steal.

Lidstrom for 7.45m is the biggest steal in the league, period.

[detroit4life 0]

There's no way you could realistically consider Detroit's goaltending number 5. Just based on starting goaltenders alone we can't compete. That's not to mention we have 2 relatively unproven backups. Take Starters. You think Osgood is consistently better than the following: Leclaire, Fleury, Backstrom, Gerber, Vokoun, Kipursoff, Miller, Giguere, Ward, Dipietro, Thomas.

I would trade Osgood straight up for any of those goalies (the list doesn't include the goalies on the teams ranked 1-4 for you).

Really? You would take Gerber straight up?? Thomas? Backstrom is a question mark. Even Fleury I would hesitate. Ozzie does have 2 Cups as a starter and a 3rd as backup, there is a s***load of experience there. And Fleury seems to lose when it matters most. International play, Stanley Cup. So he would have to win before I would make that trade. But yeah, the others, I would trade straight up as well.

[Nineteen 0]

No form of statistical analysis can ever decide how "good" a player is - but they can certainly provide the information necessary to conclude that someone like Ozzie was no more important to our success than LaBarbera was to the Kings. It certainly bears far more credibility than someone who suggests Osgood is one of the five best goaltenders in the league without any legitimate grounds to stand on.

This statistic set is based entirely on contribution to the team, players are punished for having better teammates. Just because Ozzie is slightly less responsible for the Wings' success than LaBarbara is for the Kings' does not at all mean LaBarbara is better. For Osgood to have a similar contribtution to LaBarbara he would have to post ridiculous numbers. Any goalie for the Red Wings will have a lower value to the team because the rest of the team is worth more, that does not make them worse. According to these stats Mathieu Garon was more valuable to Edmonton than Huet (Who led his team to the playoffs and had a better save %) was to the Canadiens/Caps based on his shootout performances alone (meaning it doesnt matter if Garon played a single minute of actual hockey).

From what I can figure, the stats appear to be a combination of total # of saves, save %, and shootout saves. Fleury, like Osgood, is outside the top 20 because he saw too few shots. While these stats paint a decent picture, I believe thay fail to really show who the better goaltenders are.

While stats are fun, they have to be grounded in reality. The shootout is given ridiculous importance in this set and I have a problem with it being based entirely on this past regular season. According to the numbers given, Devereaux is a more valuable player than Draper, Meech, Maltby, Howard, Kopecky, Stuart, Ericsson, Helm, McCarty, and Downey. I would dare argue that I would rather have every single one of them over Devereaux, even Downey and Helm who apparently contributed negatively to the Wings. When comparing skaters from different teams, these stats obviously don't mean much.

You can base your top 5 goalies on raw number of saves, save %, and shootouts from this past regular season, but don't pretend that that list is any better than anyone else's. I personally would place Osgood top 5 based on his willingness to take any role and any salary the team needs him to, his playoff stats, his pummeling of Roy, his goal against the Whale, and his 3 CUPS. Osgood has what it takes to win, regardless of his stats. They can have Vokoun.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh aand I know this isn't really my fight, but as an economist I'm not a fan of improperly used statistics.

I'll contribute something I suppose:

Top 5 Active Goalies:

1. Brodeur

2. Turco

3. Nabokov

4. Osgood

5. Lundqvist

5. Giguere

Edited July 6, 2008 by Nineteen

[19Hockeytown5 0]

Goaltending top 10 (7-10)

Now I love Osgood as much as the next diehard. He isn't spectacular in that he carries the team (doesn't have to) but he just gets the job done. He doesn't face alot of shots but he makes the key saves. He really is calm and obviously switching to him was the catalyst for the cup run.

Defense #1.

Nicklas Lidstrom...Need I say more? lol. Anyways we have the best top 4 in the game and alot of depth. We play a smart patient system and have a solid goaling backstopping it.

Offense (1-2)

Our first and second lines should be stellar and we once again have alot of depth. Charactor guys that can score on any given night (draper/huddler/ectect). Zet, dat, holms/fran, hossa, filp.

[Doggy 130]

And you know the major difference between Chris Osgood and Cam Ward or Bill Ranford? Cam Ward and Bill Ranford have never been elite-level goaltenders in their career outside of one stellar cup run that happened because their team's starter was unable to perform. They are guys who weren't even the best goalie on their team in the year they won the Cup, they just happened to be the guy in net and playing well. Osgood has for the most part of his career been one of the better starters in the league.

You do know Cam Ward won the Conn Smythe, right? And you do know Bill Ranford was the Oilers starting goalie in '90 and ahem, won the Conn Smythe, right?

You know that yeah? Coz, it doesn't seem like you do.

[eva unit zero 271]

You do know Cam Ward won the Conn Smythe, right? And you do know Bill Ranford was the Oilers starting goalie in '90 and ahem, won the Conn Smythe, right?

You know that yeah? Coz, it doesn't seem like you do.

Grant Fuhr entered the 89-90 season as a top-five goaltender in the league. He missed a good chunk of games injured and this resulted in his being unable to play in the postseason despite his team's best efforts to get him ready. The team considered him the starter as he played a LARGE majority of games when healthy that season.

Ward didn't even start the playoffs, was pulled twice during the postseason, and has yet to post a .900 save percentage or a GAA below 2.90 for a full season.

Neither Ward nor Ranford's Smythe performance - as of yet their only notable postseason performance - was as good as Osgood's 98 Cup run. Ozzie's 98 run was his SECOND best Cup-winning performance.

Do you guys just not get the difference between Ward/Ranford and Osgood?

[Doggy 130]

Grant Fuhr entered the 89-90 season as a top-five goaltender in the league. He missed a good chunk of games injured and this resulted in his being unable to play in the postseason despite his team's best efforts to get him ready. The team considered him the starter as he played a LARGE majority of games when healthy that season.

Ward didn't even start the playoffs, was pulled twice during the postseason, and has yet to post a .900 save percentage or a GAA below 2.90 for a full season.

Neither Ward nor Ranford's Smythe performance - as of yet their only notable postseason performance - was as good as Osgood's 98 Cup run. Ozzie's 98 run was his SECOND best Cup-winning performance.

Do you guys just not get the difference between Ward/Ranford and Osgood?

Lol, nice stats. Anyway, I never mentioned Ozzie.

[eva unit zero 271]

Lol, nice stats. Anyway, I never mentioned Ozzie.

If your mention of Ranford and Ward's Smythes had nothing to do with Ozzie, than WTF were you talking about? I said that outside of one good playoff run each they have never been elite level goaltenders. This is a fact. It's not like asking if Henrik Lundqvist should have been a Vezina finalist this year. It's like asking if Johan Holmqvist should have. There is only one answer to the question.

[Doggy 130]

If your mention of Ranford and Ward's Smythes had nothing to do with Ozzie, than WTF were you talking about? I said that outside of one good playoff run each they have never been elite level goaltenders. This is a fact. It's not like asking if Henrik Lundqvist should have been a Vezina finalist this year. It's like asking if Johan Holmqvist should have. There is only one answer to the question.

It just seemed that you were giving them no credit for their Cup wins. Winning a playoffs MVP is a pretty good achievement in my view, except of course when it doesn't fit your argument. Anyway, that was all I had to say on it. Continue with the stats...