Norris Trophy 08-09

[Guest mindfly]

Is it as crystalclear as previous years that Lidström will win the norris trophy this year or will he struggle alot more or maybe even loose it to someone else? Will Phaneuf still be the closest condender? Niedermayer were pretty lousy last year... Do you have any wildcard perhaps?

Lids at 6

Harvey at 7

Orr at 8

Wow... imagine if he wins 2more.. and consider the skill level, capspace era etc... lidström might even be the greatest defenseman of all time already, what do you say about that?

Edited July 7, 2008 by mindfly

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Is it as crystalclear as previous years that Lidström will win the norris trophy this year or will he struggle alot more or maybe even loose it to someone else? Will Phaneuf still be the closest condender? Niedermayer were pretty lousy last year... Do you have any wildcard perhaps?

Lids at 6

Harvey at 7

Orr at 8

Wow... imagine if he wins 2more.. and consider the skill level, capspace era etc... lidström might even be the greatest defenseman of all time already, what do you say about that?

If Nick wins 10 Norris trophies he still won't be as good as Bobby Orr.

Bobby Orr could win a game all by himself, and could do anything he wanted to do out there on the ice at will. He was physically and mentally way better than anyone else. Lidstrom is great, but he can't win a game all by himself the way Orr could, and can't just embarass people out there the way Orr could. The man was a God and a phenom, the likes of which the game will never see again.

With that said, I can see Nick passing Harvey or tying him in Norrises, cementing him in my opinion as the 2nd best ever. However, number 1 is reserved.

Also, I think Phaneuf will be the toughest competition, because he's a scoring machine. Likewise, look for Pronger to be a candidate again after having a year off in the Norris balloting.

[stillwater 186]

Jeff Finger

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

Ill say it'll come down to Boyle Lidstrom Chara.

[miller76 463]

Liljas the lock!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Liljas the lock!

Unfortunately, not.

Enforcers never even come close to winning any awards, especially this one.

[miller76 463]

Unfortunately, not.

Enforcers never even come close to winning any awards, especially this one.

lmao. Its funny I was typing Lilja, and I couldn't help but think of you and what you would say! lol.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

lmao. Its funny I was typing Lilja, and I couldn't help but think of you and what you would say! lol.

No problem.

Just keep setting me up beautifully, and I'll eat it up with a spoon each time.

[miller76 463]

No problem.

Just keep setting me up beautifully, and I'll eat it up with a spoon each time.

rofl

[Booster313 138]

I would love to see Lidstrom get to at least eight Norris trophies

[dicksmack 33]

Unfortunately, not.

Enforcers never even come close to winning any awards, especially this one.

Lilja's never even come close to being an enforcer... lol... He's perhaps a "reinforcer", ie depth d-man.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Lilja's never even come close to being an enforcer... lol... He's perhaps a "reinforcer", ie depth d-man.

Phaneuf, Sharp, Begin and Neil would disagree with you.

[Guest Four]

Lidstrom for 7!

[Doggy 130]

Wow... imagine if he wins 2more.. and consider the skill level, capspace era etc... lidström might even be the greatest defenseman of all time already, what do you say about that?

Lol.

No.

[stillwater 186]

Phaneuf, Sharp, Begin and Neil would disagree with you.

So what you're saying is non-enforcers would disagree with him? It's one thing to drop the gloves now and again. It's another thing to be termed an "enforcer".

Saku Koivu had more PIM's than 2 of those guys.

Edited July 8, 2008 by stillwater

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Orr was a forward who could play defense. Essentially he was the 70s Fedorov. Put Fedorov on D in the 70s and he would have smashed teams by himself too.

The fact is as much as Orr could dominate a team, Lidstrom can shut down a team by himself. By playing him in key situations against the opposition's best players it severely limits their play-making ability, which is the definition of defense.

So, the 2 best defenseman of all time are offensive-defenseman Bobby Orr and defensive-defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom.

[Happy Pancake 6]

Lindstrom!

[eva unit zero 271]

Bobby Orr could win a game all by himself, and could do anything he wanted to do out there on the ice at will. He was physically and mentally way better than anyone else. Lidstrom is great, but he can't win a game all by himself the way Orr could, and can't just embarass people out there the way Orr could. The man was a God and a phenom, the likes of which the game will never see again.

Nick Lidstrom could very well be considered the best defenseman ever when it's all over.

The reason Bobby Orr was able to be so far ahead of the competition had much more to do with the lack of NHL-level talent in the 70s and early 80s than Orr's top-end talent.

Orr is ahead of Lidstrom, but if Lidstrom wins three or four more Norrises that might not be the case. Lidstrom was a first-team all-star nine of the past ten seasons, and nine of sixteen total in his career. Orr was the best in eight of twelve seasons. People often cite longevity and health as the reason Gretzky was better than Lemieux. If Lidstrom plays five more seasons, and is a first team all-star every one of them...that gives him the same 2/3 ratio Orr had of first-team selections. In that case, the longevity argument would then rank Lidstrom ahead of Orr.

No, right now, Lidstrom does not rank above Orr. But to say he could not finish as the best ever is naive.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I know this sounds really Homerist of me, but I believe Kronwall will be the player to dethrone Lidstrom from his Norris streak, and it won't happen this year.

[awingsincebirth 0]

I feel like it may be a bit closer than it was this year, but Lids will still win it in convincing fashion. Phaneuf probably will be #2 again, because he tends to put up the right numbers in the the right places, despite the fact that he will never even be close to what Lidstrom is.

In my eyes, Lids has locked up a spot as both the #2 d-man of all time, and the #1 European of all-time after this year's Cup. Nonetheless, he will never be considered the best defenseman ever, and rightfully so. Bobby is numero uno, Lids is numero two. If Lids can remain dominant, he can narrow that gap a pit (subsequently widening the gap between himself and number 3, whoever that may be), but he will never quite close it entirely. However, I think that those two will stay atop the pinnacle of all-time defensemen for many, many years to come.

[Guest Four]

Lindstrom!

Did you do that on purpose of this years awards?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Nick Lidstrom could very well be considered the best defenseman ever when it's all over.

The reason Bobby Orr was able to be so far ahead of the competition had much more to do with the lack of NHL-level talent in the 70s and early 80s than Orr's top-end talent.

Orr is ahead of Lidstrom, but if Lidstrom wins three or four more Norrises that might not be the case. Lidstrom was a first-team all-star nine of the past ten seasons, and nine of sixteen total in his career. Orr was the best in eight of twelve seasons. People often cite longevity and health as the reason Gretzky was better than Lemieux. If Lidstrom plays five more seasons, and is a first team all-star every one of them...that gives him the same 2/3 ratio Orr had of first-team selections. In that case, the longevity argument would then rank Lidstrom ahead of Orr.

No, right now, Lidstrom does not rank above Orr. But to say he could not finish as the best ever is naive.

Longevity wise, many people are ahead of Orr already. The reason he's the best are the aforementioned reasons in my previous post, which I won't restate again.

Also, there was no lack of talent back in those days anymore than there is now. In fact, I remember there being a thread several weeks ago about how the competition in the 80's amongst defensemen was better than what it is now in Lidstrom's era. You could make a similar argument for the 70's. Personally, I don't think this era is that far above others.

Furthermore, believe it or not sports is a popularity contest, and Orr's contribution and status in the game will never be 2nd to any defenseman.

[Doggy 130]

Nick Lidstrom could very well be considered the best defenseman ever when it's all over.

The reason Bobby Orr was able to be so far ahead of the competition had much more to do with the lack of NHL-level talent in the 70s and early 80s than Orr's top-end talent.

Orr is ahead of Lidstrom, but if Lidstrom wins three or four more Norrises that might not be the case. Lidstrom was a first-team all-star nine of the past ten seasons, and nine of sixteen total in his career. Orr was the best in eight of twelve seasons. People often cite longevity and health as the reason Gretzky was better than Lemieux. If Lidstrom plays five more seasons, and is a first team all-star every one of them...that gives him the same 2/3 ratio Orr had of first-team selections. In that case, the longevity argument would then rank Lidstrom ahead of Orr.

No, right now, Lidstrom does not rank above Orr. But to say he could not finish as the best ever is naive.

You crack me up.

[#19=Legend 29]

I think the number of Norrises Lids wins is up to himself. Meaning I think he will win every norris until he retires. So it could be quite a few more.

[awingsincebirth 0]

Longevity wise, many people are ahead of Orr already. The reason he's the best are the aforementioned reasons in my previous post, which I won't restate again.

Also, there was no lack of talent back in those days anymore than there is now. In fact, I remember there being a thread several weeks ago about how the competition in the 80's amongst defensemen was better than what it is now in Lidstrom's era. You could make a similar argument for the 70's. Personally, I don't think this era is that far above others.

Furthermore, believe it or not sports is a popularity contest, and Orr's contribution and status in the game will never be 2nd to any defenseman.

I think that this is a very important point. Bobby Orr redefined the defensive position. That is the one thing that Bobby has that Nick will never be able to (He perfected it, yes, but he did not singlehandedly alter it)....that, and the word "Canada" on his birth certificate (This is another important factor that would keep Bobby ahead of Nick even if Nick WERE to out-Norris Orr)

Edited July 8, 2008 by awingsincebirth