Update on Filppula/Chelios

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I think more people would have had Hossa not been added. That being said, he did phenomenal on the shutdown line and if there top two lines perform, why would he be bumped up if it isn't needed.

Besides, which Winger would you demote to the third line if Cleary is moved up? Homer is most certainly not a shutdown line type of player, Hossa obviously isn't going anywhere near that line, and Franzen showed a phenomenal touch from March through the rest of the season. Obviously Filppula won't play on a line with Draper given their current positions, so I guess I'm a little confused by what spot you feel he should have on the top two lines.

I think the big question mark is Franzen honestly. Will we see the Franzen of the first half of the season? or the second half? Whether the end of last year was somewhat of an anomaly, or if he finally figured out how good he is.

And over half his goals came on the power play, whereas only 5 of Cleary's 20 goals did. When you look at the whole season (at least the portion Cleary was in the lineup) I honestly think he had a better year than Franzen. Franzen just played out of his mind at the end. With 20 goals, 42 points and +21 in 63 games, you could make a case for him on the 2nd line in place of Mule, depending on which Mule shows up.

And though it would likely won't happen because it's probably not the best use of the roster, there's some appeal in seeing a big line line out there like Cleary, Franzen and Hossa. The smallest guy being Cleary at 6'0" and 210 lbs.

[T.Low 1,011]

Its a tough call. The two clear options IMO are:

Zetterburg Datsyuk Holmstrom

Hossa Filp Franzen

or go ahead and split up Zetterburg and Datsyuk as discussed so many times last year:

Hossa Datsyuk Holmstrom

Zetterburg Filp Franzen

But on the occasion that its the Hero Line of

Hossa Datsyuk Zetterburg

then Holmer and Franzen need to be split up

Holmer Filp Cleary

Franzen Draper Maltby (Helm?!!?).

Just distracted by the thought of Stuart and Kronner as the 2nd D-Line, OMFG!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

QFT

What truth? That Filppula is more skilled than Draper? Good for Filppula. Is Filppula was so skilled, he'd be getting 2nd unit PP time and be putting up points in spite of who hes playing with. A 2nd line center does not need All-Star superstars to help him break 40 point. Take a look at Hudler. He gets nothing but scratch for ice time, yet he can still put up 40+ points. Thats because hes got the offensive instincts to do so. Filppula doesn't.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I guess the bottom line for me in any line combinations is I'm not quite convinced that Flip warrants being 2nd line center.

[Turretin 0]

Gentlemen,

The Cleary love is justified. When that is combined with Franzen's hot hand, I believe it presents an issue that needs discussing.

If Franzen stays hot, Tomas Holmstrom is the most replaceable player in the potential top 6. Babcock like 2-way players. The fact that Holmstrom is the only offensive player that Babcock could not trust on the third line has to irk him a bit. Plus, refs have been singling Holmstrom out.

I think the team would be wise to experiment with the lines without Homstrom in the top 6. Just to see what it looks like. Right now, Cleary and Franzen may be more effective players if given the chance to develop chemistry and confidence that they won't be pulled off the line in 2 games.

[FinRedWing 172]

I don't really care in what line will Filppula play,as long as he's a Red Wing for a long time.

Sure he needs to be more consistent next season IF he plays in our 2nd line and he still has a terrible shot.

But he's a hard worker and somehow he was a beast in the finals. Top3 performance.

If only he could pick where he left off in October...

[Cicada 4]

have to agree with norris nick here..

i think babcock will try 3 scoring lines with drapes as 4th line centre..

i'd hazard a guess at

Hossa - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary

Hudler - Filppula - Samuelsson

Kopeky - Draper - Maltby

the good thing about that is that all the Wingers are completely interchangable, and we have a physical shutdown line..

all 3 scoring lines have at least 2 very good defensive players

then in a couple of years when Draper and Maltby retire you've got Helm and Abdelkader as their ready made replacements

Edited July 16, 2008 by Cicada

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

So you've got Z, Pavel, and Fil. That smells like 3rd line center to me.

Filppula does not have NHL level scoring line playmaking ability. If it were a matter of wingers he'd be on the 2nd PP, but he's not (unless someone ahead of him is hurt). Fil is a defensive center that can carry the puck very well, but his offensive instincts are lacking. He can handle a 2on1 fairly well, but offensive zone passing when it's set up and knowing when to pass or when to shoot, just isn't there.

Sure he'll put up points on a stacked line, but said stacked line would be far better off with a center that can maximize the offense.

No one (including myself) was questioning that.

So you've got Z, Pavel, and Fil. That smells like 3rd line center to me.

Filppula does not have NHL level scoring line playmaking ability. If it were a matter of wingers he'd be on the 2nd PP, but he's not (unless someone ahead of him is hurt). Fil is a defensive center that can carry the puck very well, but his offensive instincts are lacking. He can handle a 2on1 fairly well, but offensive zone passing when it's set up and knowing when to pass or when to shoot, just isn't there.

Sure he'll put up points on a stacked line, but said stacked line would be far better off with a center that can maximize the offense.

At this point, its hard to argue that given the type of player Val currently is. All I'm saying is that given a new role on the team and capable Wingers may change a thing or two.

So you've got Z, Pavel, and Fil. That smells like 3rd line center to me.

Filppula does not have NHL level scoring line playmaking ability. If it were a matter of wingers he'd be on the 2nd PP, but he's not (unless someone ahead of him is hurt). Fil is a defensive center that can carry the puck very well, but his offensive instincts are lacking. He can handle a 2on1 fairly well, but offensive zone passing when it's set up and knowing when to pass or when to shoot, just isn't there.

Sure he'll put up points on a stacked line, but said stacked line would be far better off with a center that can maximize the offense.

Again, no doubt it would, but then you take away some of that production from the first line.

TBH, I don't think there's a wrong answer here. I can most certainly see your point of putting Z inbetween Fil and Hossa and Dats inbetween Homer and Hossa, but no matter what there will be a trade off.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Fil centers #3 and Draper centers #4.

Ok, that I could get on board with.

If these are the lines you're thinking, I have no problem with running with it:

Hossa - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary

Hudler - Filppula - Samuelsson

Kopeky - Draper - Maltby

Downey/Mac (for play against the rough teams)

That being said, I would assume you would interchange your third and fourth line ice-times based on the opposition and home/away games.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I guess the bottom line for me in any line combinations is I'm not quite convinced that Flip warrants being 2nd line center.

Who do you (or anyone for that matter) suggest center the second line in the event the ZDH line is put together?

[Turretin 0]

Ok, that I could get on board with.

If these are the lines you're thinking, I have no problem with running with it:

Hossa - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary

Hudler - Filppula - Samuelsson

Kopeky - Draper - Maltby

Downey/Mac (for play against the rough teams)

That being said, I would assume you would interchange your third and fourth line ice-times based on the opposition and home/away games.

No No No! Do it again NFM, but this time do it without Holmstrom and with Helm. I demand it.

[norrisnick 1]

I just think that it's painfully obvious that if you add an elite natural winger you let both of our elite natural centers actually play center rather than doubling them up and letting a lesser center handle the 2nd line.

And you don't add a guy like Hossa and stick him next to Filppula. It just doesn't make sense. Like '06 when Draper was on a line with Datsyuk. It was painful.

[Heaton 1]

Anyone remember who was on Hossa's line in '06-'07 in Atlanta?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Who do you (or anyone for that matter) suggest center the second line in the event the ZDH line is put together?

If the ZDH line were kept intact, probably Franzen. He's not tremendous at distributing the puck, but I think brings more offense overall than Flip, and is responsible defensively.

Honestly though with Hossa here it probably makes more sense to let Z and Datsyuk center their own lines. There's enough offensive talent now to split them up.

[norrisnick 1]

Who do you (or anyone for that matter) suggest center the second line in the event the ZDH line is put together?

I don't put them back together. If it's a late game we need a goal right ******* now sort of situation we stack the hell out of the top line with Pavel - Z - Marian and the 2nd line is irrelevant but probably would feature Franzen - Fil - Hudler or something like that.

[norrisnick 1]

Anyone remember who was on Hossa's line in '06-'07 in Atlanta?

Slava Kozlov was centering him, I believe.

[Turretin 0]

I don't put them back together. If it's a late game we need a goal right ******* now sort of situation we stack the hell out of the top line with Pavel - Z - Marian and the 2nd line is irrelevant but probably would feature Franzen - Fil - Hudler or something like that.

NN,

Just consider:

Z - D - Hossa

Cleary - Franzen - Hudler

Helm - Fil - Samuellson

Kopper - Draper - Maltby

The big bodies help Hudler use his talents more and we have the best line in the league night in night out. I am fine with spreading the talent, but I just want to make the point about Homer.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

NN,

Just consider:

Z - D - Hossa

Cleary - Franzen - Hudler

Helm - Fil - Samuellson

Kopper - Draper - Maltby

The big bodies help Hudler use his talents more and we have the best line in the league night in night out. I am fine with spreading the talent, but I just want to make the point about Homer.

Where's Holmstrom?

[Turretin 0]

Where's Holmstrom?

Exactly. It is something to consider as we try to fit under the cap in coming years.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Exactly. It is something to consider as we try to fit under the cap in coming years.

I get what you're saying, but he's signed thru 2010 for a good price and is a 40 to 50 point player. He's gonna be in the lineup.

[norrisnick 1]

Exactly. It is something to consider as we try to fit under the cap in coming years.

Find me a cheaper top line winger that puts up 20-30 goals and is pivotal on the PP (whether he gets on the scoresheet or not). In the cap world, Homer is an incredibly cheap player. Ryan Malone is making twice as much and I'm hesitant to say he's better at all.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Does anyone here remember that Franzén was the center of the second line and Filppula was a winger? Do you still think that Filppula is the number 3 center? It's not so simple at all.

There are many possible combinations as many of you have stated that there are 7 forwards who can be on the top two line. Filppula might be a perfect fit with Hossa or not at all, but how on earth anyone here can yet write anything about that? I think Filppula has potential to be a good playmaker and on paper a line that has a playmaker, a power forward (Franzén) and a sniper (Hossa) sounds good. We'll see.

Edited July 16, 2008 by P. Marlowe

[Turretin 0]

Find me a cheaper top line winger that puts up 20-30 goals and is pivotal on the PP (whether he gets on the scoresheet or not). In the cap world, Homer is an incredibly cheap player. Ryan Malone is making twice as much and I'm hesitant to say he's better at all.

I am wondering if I could name two of them on the Wings (Franzen and Cleary) given a little time and confidence.

[norrisnick 1]

I am wondering if I could name two of them on the Wings (Franzen and Cleary) given a little time and confidence.

Cleary makes more and Franzen undoubtedly will as well once his current deal is up.

[norrisnick 1]

Does anyone here remember that Franzén was the center of the second line and Filppula was a winger? Do you still think that Filppula is the number 3 center? It's not so simple at all.

There are many possible combinations as many of you have stated that there are 7 forwards who can be on the top two line. Filppula might be a perfect fit with Hossa or not at all, but how on earth anyone here can yet write anything about that? I think Filppula has potential to be a good playmaker and on paper a line that has a playmaker, a power forward (Franzén) and a sniper (Hossa) sounds good. We'll see.

Fil took a lot more faceoffs than Franzen did last season. More often than not he was the center of the 2nd line (when he wasn't up with Datsyuk).

Filppula may have the potential to be a playmaker, but he hasn't come close to being one thus far. In the long run he'll be closer to Draper than he will be to Datsyuk.

A fun side note. Holmstrom had more assists than Filppula last season.