Babcock speaks about line combos

[Chunkylover 26]

It's highly unlikely that ZDH won't be reunited at some point during the regular season, bumping Filppula up a line with Hossa.

Babs started out with Z and D split up, then put them together when Franzen was injured, then broke them up in the middle of the season when everyone else was slumping.

We'll see every possible line combination this year.

[dallas27 7]

It can work both ways. While I'm perfectly happy with having Hossa on Datsyuk's wing I could see Hossa doing wonders for Filppula's confidence and long term development. Hossa scored 100 points on a line by himself in Atlanta, he's shown he doesn't "need" an elite center to produce a massive amount of points but that's not to say it won't enchance him. Since I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other I will say this again, while Holland didn't sign Filppula based solely on his point production his point production isn't going to see any drastic improvements with his linemates he currently has. On that same token, he is better suited to play on the 3rd line with our current lineup - but people better temper their expectations and not be disappointed when he still ends up between 35-45 points. No one is going to produce a ton playing on the 3rd line with vitually no PP time.

I really don't know where the venom is coming from towards Filppula, we won the cup with him centering the 2nd line and no he wasn't the focal point of offense on that line but no one ever should've expected that out of him. His speed, defense and determination is second to only a few on the team and that coupled with probably a cut off point of 55-60 points a year is right in his wheel house. This is a long term contract, Holland isn't expecting him to be worth his value by training camp.

No venom, I said he plays his role to a T, all of which you said above. For whatever reason people think he is somehow going to get 60-70 points a season which he just simply won't. He is a role player and he plays his role very well.

And he won't hinder Hossa, don't get me wrong, but he certainly won't be the best of help either if Datsyuk is the other candidate.

[eva unit zero 271]

No venom, I said he plays his role to a T, all of which you said above. For whatever reason people think he is somehow going to get 60-70 points a season which he just simply won't. He is a role player and he plays his role very well.

And he won't hinder Hossa, don't get me wrong, but he certainly won't be the best of help either if Datsyuk is the other candidate.

As far as who the 'best' options for centering Hossa are...the first two are Dats and Z. Anyone else, and it means Hossa is on a different line than them. The best option after those two is Hudler. Filppula is a distant fourth, as he's the next best offensive center on the team, but well behind Hudler in that regard; especially in playmaking ability, which is the primary concern here.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

wow sounds great

I do hope Helm stays on 4th line..he had the drive Wings need from time to time.

I dunno- I'd rather he stays in GR than sit in Detroit just so he has a sniff at playing 5 mins a night. Playing on the first line in GR is probably better for him in the long run. Bring him up next season...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

All this talk about line combinations or getting all worked up that the Wings brass might not use the exact combos you want really doesn't matter. The line combos are going to change plenty during the season.

[Nev 1,085]

Never said he was, but way to make up stuff to try and make a point.

"You aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him ", others have specifically talked about getting Hossa 50, 55 goals.

It's not about padding his stats, it's about getting the most out of him.

Wrong! Its about winning the Stanley Cup. Did we get the most out of Brett Hull on the '02 team by sticking him on the 4th line with a rookie Datsyuk and Boyd Devereaux? No, but did we win the Stanley Cup? Yes. Was that the objective? Yes.

Secondly, stop with the chemistry stuff. People have no right to chime in about chemistry if you haven't played the game (and at a high level), pardon me if you have.

1) That statement is against the board rules

2) You don't have to have "played the game at a high level" to know that just throwing good players together doesn't always work. Back to the '02 team, why did Brett Hull have the time of his life with Datsyuk and Devereaux and Luc Robitallie look like a fish out of water with Larionov and Holmstrom? When players mesh, its a thing of beauty, but it doesn't always work, and why it does or doesn't work isn't easily definable. Until you put players together, you just don't know.

3) Its a discussion forum. People come here to discuss the Wings. As we say over here "opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one"

[FinRedWing 172]

It can work both ways. While I'm perfectly happy with having Hossa on Datsyuk's wing I could see Hossa doing wonders for Filppula's confidence and long term development. Hossa scored 100 points on a line by himself in Atlanta, he's shown he doesn't "need" an elite center to produce a massive amount of points but that's not to say it won't enchance him. Since I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other I will say this again, while Holland didn't sign Filppula based solely on his point production his point production isn't going to see any drastic improvements with his linemates he currently has. On that same token, he is better suited to play on the 3rd line with our current lineup - but people better temper their expectations and not be disappointed when he still ends up between 35-45 points. No one is going to produce a ton playing on the 3rd line with vitually no PP time.

I really don't know where the venom is coming from towards Filppula, we won the cup with him centering the 2nd line and no he wasn't the focal point of offense on that line but no one ever should've expected that out of him. His speed, defense and determination is second to only a few on the team and that coupled with probably a cut off point of 55-60 points a year is right in his wheel house. This is a long term contract, Holland isn't expecting him to be worth his value by training camp.

QFMFT

No venom, I said he plays his role to a T, all of which you said above. For whatever reason people think he is somehow going to get 60-70 points a season which he just simply won't. He is a role player and he plays his role very well.

And he won't hinder Hossa, don't get me wrong, but he certainly won't be the best of help either if Datsyuk is the other candidate.

Except in every post...

[Dawgs 0]

Im not sure I like breaking up Z and Datsyuk. The chemistry they have built up is incredible. With Homer, its the best line in hockey.

In the preseason Id like to see a line of Filpula-Hossa- Franzen just to see if they can build some chemistry together. The one problem with a Mule- Hossa -Filpula and Z-Datsyuk- Homer lineup is your 3 best centers are on two lines. With Draper centering the checking line would you use Hudler between Cleary and Sammy?

[DMAC 25 18]

I really wanna see

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hossa

Lidström-Rafalski

On the powerplay... DAMN... most impressive pp in many years You think there is a possibility?

agreed i would love to see that line for the power play i think its a strong possibility but maybe he might mix it up a bit who knows but it would be awsome no one would be able to stop that power play

[dallas27 7]

"You aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him ", others have specifically talked about getting Hossa 50, 55 goals.

Anywhere in there did I say anything about padding his stats? Thank you! But again, you aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him. Just a statement of fact, has nothing to do with padding Hossa's stats.

Wrong! Its about winning the Stanley Cup. Did we get the most out of Brett Hull on the '02 team by sticking him on the 4th line with a rookie Datsyuk and Boyd Devereaux? No, but did we win the Stanley Cup? Yes. Was that the objective? Yes.

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. Brett Hull was 38 in '02. I don't believe they were going to get Brett Hull type numbers in his prime. He was also a one-tool player, especially, especially at 38. He could score, and that's it. Hossa, on the otherhand, can do anything he wants.

1) That statement is against the board rules

2) You don't have to have "played the game at a high level" to know that just throwing good players together doesn't always work. Back to the '02 team, why did Brett Hull have the time of his life with Datsyuk and Devereaux and Luc Robitallie look like a fish out of water with Larionov and Holmstrom? When players mesh, its a thing of beauty, but it doesn't always work, and why it does or doesn't work isn't easily definable. Until you put players together, you just don't know.

3) Its a discussion forum. People come here to discuss the Wings. As we say over here "opinions are like arseholes - everyones got one"

If you have never stepped on the ice how do you even have a clue what chemistry is on the ice? It's easy to sit back in a chair and go "oooohhhhhh, throwing them on the ice does work out, who would have thought?" Players of Hossa, Hank, Datysuk, Lidstrom, etc. skill level aren't going to have any problem with chemistry.

Why did Robitaille look like a fish out of water? Because he was way past his prime? Unlike Brett Hull, who was going through the same thing, didn't have a rocket shot. Robitaille had nothing to fall back on. Hull could just sit back and have Datysuk toss the puck to him so he could put it in the net. I'm sure that probably had something to do with why Hull loved playing with him. Someone else on the current team would have a ton of fun playing with Datsyuk too. Can't put my thumb on him though.

Edited September 2, 2008 by dallas27

[dallas27 7]

Except in every post...

Because I don't jump on Flip and ride him til' he bucks means it's venom? So because I say he isn't a first-line center it's venom? Because I say he is a career second-liner it's venom? Because I say he is a 50 point type of guy it's venom?

Again, this goes back to the "Bobby Orr" goal in the playoffs. Guy does that everyone thinks it vaults him into a first-line 80 point getting center.

He's a role player on this team and always will be. He does everything he is asked and does it at 110%.

If that is venom then so be it, I like to see it as the truth (sometimes the truth hurts).

Edited August 31, 2008 by dallas27

[dallas27 7]

As far as who the 'best' options for centering Hossa are...the first two are Dats and Z. Anyone else, and it means Hossa is on a different line than them. The best option after those two is Hudler. Filppula is a distant fourth, as he's the next best offensive center on the team, but well behind Hudler in that regard; especially in playmaking ability, which is the primary concern here.

Left me speechless. Be careful about saying Filppula is a distant fourth though, people don't take too kindly to those words 'round here.

[Reds4Life 51]

Because I don't jump on Flip and ride him til' he bucks means it's venom? So because I say he isn't a first-line center it's venom? Because I say he is a career second-liner it's venom? Because I say he is a 50 point type of guy it's venom?

Again, this goes back to the "Bobby Orr" goal in the playoffs. Guy does that everyone thinks it vaults him into a first-line 80 point getting center.

He's a role player on this team and always will be. He does everything he is asked and does it at 110%.

I like Filppula and I do agree with you. He is very good defensively and if he stays on 3rd line with Cleary and Sammy, then we have the best 3rd line in the NHL.

[FinRedWing 172]

Because I don't jump on Flip and ride him til' he bucks means it's venom? So because I say he isn't a first-line center it's venom? Because I say he is a career second-liner it's venom? Because I say he is a 50 point type of guy it's venom?

Again, this goes back to the "Bobby Orr" goal in the playoffs. Guy does that everyone thinks it vaults him into a first-line 80 point getting center.

He's a role player on this team and always will be. He does everything he is asked and does it at 110%.

If that is venom then so be it, I like to see it as the truth (sometimes the truth hurts).

None of those above,it's because comments like Valtteri freaking Filppula,pass me what you're smoking etc. in every other post.

I don't mind if Filppula plays on the 3rd line or even 4th,as long as he's a Red Wing.

That's all I care. So the truth doesn't hurt me at all.

But I bet 5yrs - $3Million did.

Edited August 31, 2008 by FinRedWing

[chrisdetroit 189]

I'm thrilled to finally see Babcock acknowledge Hudler should be on the second line. He is a better scorer and playmaker than Filppula, and partnered with two excellent defensive players (Zetterberg and Franzen) he can really focus on offense.

Flip is much better defensively that Huds and much better at protecting the puck. In short, Flip is a better all around hockey player and should be on the 2nd line over Rex. That siad, I think that these line combinations are subject to change very quickly. Babs will make adjustments as necessary.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Anywhere in there did I say anything about padding his stats? Thank you! But again, you aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him. Just a statement of fact, has nothing to do with padding Hossa's stats.

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. I also wasn't aware that Brett Hull is just as good as Marian Hossa. That's two things I've learned today. Brett Hull was 38 in '02. I don't believe they were going to get Brett Hull type numbers in his prime. He was also a one-tool player, especially, especially at 38. He could score, and that's it. Hossa, on the otherhand, can do anything he wants.

If you have never stepped on the ice how do you even have a clue what chemistry is on the ice? It's easy to sit back in a chair and go "oooohhhhhh, throwing them on the ice does work out, who would have thought?" Players of Hossa, Hank, Datysuk, Lidstrom, etc. skill level aren't going to have any problem with chemistry.

Why did Robitaille look like a fish out of water? Because he was way past his prime? Unlike Brett Hull, who was going through the same thing, didn't have a rocket shot. Robitaille had nothing to fall back on. Hull could just sit back and have Datysuk toss the puck to him so he could put it in the net. I'm sure that probably had something to do with why Hull loved playing with him. Someone else on the current team would have a ton of fun playing with Datsyuk too. Can't put my thumb on him though.

Anything he wants?! What kind of Hossa pot are you smoking. You are comparing Hossa to Brett fricking Hull. Brett Hull is a first vote Hall of Famer. Marian Hossa has a LONG way to go before you can start comparing him to Brett Hull.

Hossa has great potential but comparing him to Brett Hull? Come on...

[skacore 2]

Anything he wants?! What kind of Hossa pot are you smoking. You are comparing Hossa to Brett fricking Hull. Brett Hull is a first vote Hall of Famer. Marian Hossa has a LONG way to go before you can start comparing him to Brett Hull.

Hossa has great potential but comparing him to Brett Hull? Come on...

Hossa in his current form is so, so, so much better than Brett Hull in the form he was in Detroit, who cares about comparing their careers..?

[ArcticWing 0]

At some point of the season, I would like to see Flip-Huds-Hossa line-up. Would be fun to see what havoc good playmaker with two speedy wingers could cause. And this line would also be defensively great. Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Franzen would also be fun to see. Too many interesting line possibilities, we are badly spoiled.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Hossa in his current form is so, so, so much better than Brett Hull in the form he was in Detroit, who cares about comparing their careers..?

Brett was in Detroit 3 years, he had point totals of 63, 76 and 68. Marian Hossa had 66 points last year. Hmmm maybe you should put down the Hossa crack pipe and start checking your facts.

While your at it why don't you look up Hossa's playoff stats for the last several years...

And don't come up with that lame ass excuse that he played on bad teams. Alex Ovechkin isn't exactly on a good team and he seems to be doing ok.

[norrisnick 1]

Flip is much better defensively that Huds and much better at protecting the puck. In short, Flip is a better all around hockey player and should be on the 2nd line over Rex. That siad, I think that these line combinations are subject to change very quickly. Babs will make adjustments as necessary.

The reasons you give and the conclusion you arrive at don't match. Filppula is far better suited for a checking line role than a scoring line role. Hudler is significantly better offensively, which is why he was on the 2nd PP unit and Fil got scrap minutes here and there on the man advantage.

[norrisnick 1]

Brett was in Detroit 3 years, he had point totals of 63, 76 and 68. Marian Hossa had 66 points last year. Hmmm maybe you should put down the Hossa crack pipe and start checking your facts.

While your at it why don't you look up Hossa's playoff stats for the last several years...

And don't come up with that lame ass excuse that he played on bad teams. Alex Ovechkin isn't exactly on a good team and he seems to be doing ok.

If Marian is here three years, he'll blow those totals out of the water. Hossa had 100 and 92 points the previous two seasons before this most recent one (the first time Marian had a somewhat significant injury in his NHL career).

Marian has 57pts in his last 61 playoff games. If you think that's bad, then I'd hate to think what you'd say about Hull's 55 points over his last 72 playoff games...

[skacore 2]

Brett was in Detroit 3 years, he had point totals of 63, 76 and 68. Marian Hossa had 66 points last year. Hmmm maybe you should put down the Hossa crack pipe and start checking your facts.

While your at it why don't you look up Hossa's playoff stats for the last several years...

And don't come up with that lame ass excuse that he played on bad teams. Alex Ovechkin isn't exactly on a good team and he seems to be doing ok.

Point totals aside, Hossa blows Hull out of the water in every other aspect of the game.

[eva unit zero 271]

At some point of the season, I would like to see Flip-Huds-Hossa line-up. Would be fun to see what havoc good playmaker with two speedy wingers could cause. And this line would also be defensively great. Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Franzen would also be fun to see. Too many interesting line possibilities, we are badly spoiled.

The thing about the first line you mentioned; Flip would be the center, not Hudler, as Flip is bigger, better defensively and much better on draws. So the playmaker would be the LW. Realistically, it shouldn't cause a significant difference as all three are talented two-way players, just pointing out that tidbit. DZF was used for the last stretch of the regular season...remember the start of Franzen's hot streak? Getting put on that line is what started it....he just never stopped scoring when Holmstrom came back.

I still want to see how a second line with Cleary, Franzen, or even Kopecky lining up opposite Hossa with Hudler in the middle would do. I think a line like that would be a GREAT second line to use behind ZDH.

[ArcticWing 0]

The thing about the first line you mentioned; Flip would be the center, not Hudler, as Flip is bigger, better defensively and much better on draws. So the playmaker would be the LW. Realistically, it shouldn't cause a significant difference as all three are talented two-way players, just pointing out that tidbit.

I was a bit narrow minded, by placing playmaker automatically in the middle. Should have given more thought to it.

DZF was used for the last stretch of the regular season...remember the start of Franzen's hot streak? Getting put on that line is what started it....he just never stopped scoring when Holmstrom came back.[/font]

And thats exactly why I would like to see this line sometimes. Just few shifts every now and then with D and Z could help Franzen maintain his hot streak and confidence.

Huds-Flip-Franzen is our next edition of Datsuyk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom, but in order to get there they need top six minutes an PP time. I know many here disagree, but if you take a look at H-F-F stats development compared to D-Z-H stats development it ain't so far fetched. And for sure they have at least potential to be best second line on NHL. I hope we won't waste their potential, thats why I wasn't so thrilled when we signed Hossa. We might end up wasting our future in favor of a one season.

To all Hossa enthuastics:

No need to attack against this post. I am sure he'll do well, make no mistake about that! Just felt that our future players deserved a better chance, thats all (folks).

Edited September 1, 2008 by ArcticWing

[chrisdetroit 189]

If Marian is here three years, he'll blow those totals out of the water. Hossa had 100 and 92 points the previous two seasons before this most recent one (the first time Marian had a somewhat significant injury in his NHL career).

Marian has 57pts in his last 61 playoff games. If you think that's bad, then I'd hate to think what you'd say about Hull's 55 points over his last 72 playoff games...

You are picking and chosing the stats that reinforce your argument. You want to ignore last years regular season becuse it doesn't fit your argument but then you want to include last years playoffs and ignore previous years playoffs. Incidently he played in 72 games last year so the injury argument is pretty weak.

Fact is his regular season last year wasn't great and his 6 of the 8 times he was in the playoffs he was invisible.

He's a great player but he's hasn't yet shown that he can consistantly make a difference especially in the playoffs.