Wings looking to trade Quincey

[ben_usmc 253]

So what happened all those other years when we didn't win the Cup? Oh yeah, we got smacked out of the playoffs by "tougher" teams (Anaheim, Calgary, etc). Do you think the media just made up how soft the Wings were for something to talk about? Huff and Puff all you want, but toughness (including fighting) is important for success. As someone said in another thread, our road to the Cup this past year was pretty soft.

BTW, Downey and Drake were on the team all of last year and where did we finish again? I can't remember? I'm sure it wasn't first because carrying a useless enforcer like Downey just f***s everything up and takes a roster spot from a "scorer" right? Please enlighten us...

I generally think Kenny does a good job, but questioning leadership often keeps them in check.

I feel better now...

esteef

I want Downey on the roster too, but fighting has nothing to do with the soft image we had during the playoffs. That was because of people like Lang and Williams, who would just get pushed around. There weren't many fights in the playoffs that Downey or anyone else could have stopped, it was mainly the players didn't have any balls that was why we were soft.

Edited October 7, 2008 by ben_usmc

[Opie 308]

So what happened all those other years when we didn't win the Cup? Oh yeah, we got smacked out of the playoffs by "tougher" teams (Anaheim, Calgary, etc). Do you think the media just made up how soft the Wings were for something to talk about? Huff and Puff all you want, but toughness (including fighting) is important for success. As someone said in another thread, our road to the Cup this past year was pretty soft.

BTW, Downey and Drake were on the team all of last year and where did we finish again? I can't remember? I'm sure it wasn't first because carrying a useless enforcer like Downey just f***s everything up and takes a roster spot from a "scorer" right? Please enlighten us...

I generally think Kenny does a good job, but questioning leadership often keeps them in check.

I feel better now...

esteef

Here it goes, I can't promise enlightenment, you have to be willing to accept it

What happened all the years the Wings didn't win the cup, do you honestly expect them to win it every year in a league with a salary cap, seriously, really?

And yes I believe the media spear headed by guys like Cherry called the Wings soft for the simple reason that they are the most Euro based team and that scares them, threatens them, whatever term you want. Hell look at this year, Cherry still couldn't say anything good about Dats, when he did talk about him it was mocking him, so yes the media made up the soft tag. They may not be fighter heavy or fight very often but this team is not soft, baseball teams are soft, basketball teams are soft (for the most part)!

Please show me where I said Downey or Drake hurt the team, I would really like to see where that is, I will then go back and edit that post to apologize. What I said was that people need to relax, because he was sent to the AHL doesn't mean he is never going to skate for the Wings or that he was traded, due to Waiver and IR concerns Holland has to be very careful with how he moves players right now.

Lets talk about the 06-07 season though, seeing as you brought it up, so the wings got Smacked by Calgary and Anaheim, really are you trying to tell me that Kronwall and Schneids injuries were due to be smacked around, really because Calgary smacking around the Wings did what for them in the post season. Oh wait but surely you are talking about getting smacked around in the regular season because bringing up a guy like Downey you are surely not talking post season.

So lets look at the numbers

06-07

Wins 53

Losses 22

Points 113

Finished tied for first in the league with Buffalo, lost the tie breaker which was goals for.

05-06

Wins 58

Losses 16

Points 124

Ran away with the president's trophy.

07-08

Wins 54

Losses 21

Points 115

To take the pres trophy by 7 points.

So what was your point again about Downey helping the team win? I am not saying he is not a great lockerroom guy, I am not saying he should be washing cars or working on his parents farm.

Downey has no impact what so ever on the post season, and I don't want to here the BS about the Ducks beat up the Wings to beat the Wings. 2 of the top 4 (I would say top 3, but being generous) D men were out of the line up, they both also happened to be huge pieces to the PP, which sucked ass against the Ducks.

Calgary tried to Smack the Wings around and it didn't do them any good, same with San Jose. The Wings were seconds away from taking a commanding lead in the series when the 5-3 pp s*** the bed, and then a bad bounce off of Lids stick (not an excuse the Wings have won by bad bounces and lost by them, part of playoffs is luck) and a give away later the Ducks are rolling.

Any other questions?

Edited October 7, 2008 by Opie

[Superman54 91]

TBH I would have prefered to keep Quincey over Meech, but unfortuantly Quinceys weak Pre-season showing has influenced Holland to go with Derek, and I completley understand. I would have liked to have another Lilja like character, considering we already have alot of good offensively gifted defensemen (not including Erricson) but we also have enough grit in Kronwall, Stuart and Lilja that its not a neccasity.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Any other questions?

Logic fantasy championship here I come!

No they were all great points, but like you and others have said, once a person hears from a media source about a team's dynamic, they are labeled there on the spot. With the Wings, the only way to shake the notion that we were soft was by winning a championship, coincidentally we added two enforceres on the team during our championship run. Wings have built their team in the cap age to be skillful and defensively sound and din't worry about size or how Canadian they were. The only time I was happy we had Downey on the team was when Lids got cheap shotted by Lappy and Downey went on to Turtle Lappy.

What happens next shows how much Downey is actually needed. We play Colorado in the playoffs, the same team that injured our captain, how much ice time did Downey get during that entire series?

I have nothing against Downey, I think he has the BEST attitude of any hockey player right now. He is ALWAYS positive, this guy is the Sean Casey of the NHL. Will the Wings possible championship run be determined if we have an enforcer or not? Personally, I don't think so, but this is why we have forums to discuss things and HOPEFULLY be open-minded and accept things that we aren't normally willing to accept.

[esteef 2,679]

Here it goes, I can't promise enlightenment, you have to be willing to accept it

What happened all the years the Wings didn't win the cup, do you honestly expect them to win it every year in a league with a salary cap, seriously, really?

And yes I believe the media spear headed by guys like Cherry called the Wings soft for the simple reason that they are the most Euro based team and that scares them, threatens them, whatever term you want. Hell look at this year, Cherry still couldn't say anything good about Dats, when he did talk about him it was mocking him, so yes the media made up the soft tag. They may not be fighter heavy or fight very often but this team is not soft, baseball teams are soft, basketball teams are soft (for the most part)!

Please show me where I said Downey or Drake hurt the team, I would really like to see where that is, I will then go back and edit that post to apologize. What I said was that people need to relax, because he was sent to the AHL doesn't mean he is never going to skate for the Wings or that he was traded, due to Waiver and IR concerns Holland has to be very careful with how he moves players right now.

Lets talk about the 06-07 season though, seeing as you brought it up, so the wings got Smacked by Calgary and Anaheim, really are you trying to tell me that Kronwall and Schneids injuries were due to be smacked around, really because Calgary smacking around the Wings did what for them in the post season. Oh wait but surely you are talking about getting smacked around in the regular season because bringing up a guy like Downey you are surely not talking post season.

So lets look at the numbers

06-07

Wins 53

Losses 22

Points 113

Finished tied for first in the league with Buffalo, lost the tie breaker which was goals for.

05-06

Wins 58

Losses 16

Points 124

Ran away with the president's trophy.

07-08

Wins 54

Losses 21

Points 115

To take the pres trophy by 7 points.

So what was your point again about Downey helping the team win? I am not saying he is not a great lockerroom guy, I am not saying he should be washing cars or working on his parents farm.

Downey has no impact what so ever on the post season, and I don't want to here the BS about the Ducks beat up the Wings to beat the Wings. 2 of the top 4 (I would say top 3, but being generous) D men were out of the line up, they both also happened to be huge pieces to the PP, which sucked ass against the Ducks.

Calgary tried to Smack the Wings around and it didn't do them any good, same with San Jose. The Wings were seconds away from taking a commanding lead in the series when the 5-3 pp s*** the bed, and then a bad bounce off of Lids stick (not an excuse the Wings have won by bad bounces and lost by them, part of playoffs is luck) and a give away later the Ducks are rolling.

Any other questions?

A long winded answer, but not a very persuasive one.

1. Yes I believe the Wings should win it every year regardless of cap, I mean we have superior leadership that we shouldn't question right? Let alone the best scouts and farm system.

2. Don Cherry is a f***in' douchebag. He knows the game and everything but his ego is beyond assholish.

3. Agree, Downey has no impact in the playoffs, but an everyday player/fighter such as an in-shape McCarty does.

4. I understand the position the Wings are in with IR, etc., just tired of the "hockey doesn't need fighters anymore" bs (not necessarily you).

5. Agree or don't about teams manhandling us out of the playoffs, but everyone else on the planet could see it. Enough for Kenny to finally go get a Downey and a Drake to begin with.

We don't have to agree, I'm just yelling out loud too!

esteef

[Opie 308]

Logic fantasy championship here I come!

No they were all great points, but like you and others have said, once a person hears from a media source about a team's dynamic, they are labeled there on the spot. With the Wings, the only way to shake the notion that we were soft was by winning a championship, coincidentally we added two enforceres on the team during our championship run. Wings have built their team in the cap age to be skillful and defensively sound and din't worry about size or how Canadian they were. The only time I was happy we had Downey on the team was when Lids got cheap shotted by Lappy and Downey went on to Turtle Lappy.

What happens next shows how much Downey is actually needed. We play Colorado in the playoffs, the same team that injured our captain, how much ice time did Downey get during that entire series?

I have nothing against Downey, I think he has the BEST attitude of any hockey player right now. He is ALWAYS positive, this guy is the Sean Casey of the NHL. Will the Wings possible championship run be determined if we have an enforcer or not? Personally, I don't think so, but this is why we have forums to discuss things and HOPEFULLY be open-minded and accept things that we aren't normally willing to accept.

Agree 100%

I have stated it many times this offseason, DOWNEY IS THE PERFECT FIGHTER FOR THE WINGS!

He has no problem with the part-time role, going through waivers, playing in the AHL if he has to, he has the perfect team first attitude. Less than a year ago I (wrongly) thought that Downey was a wasted roster spot, I ate crow for that. But right now as of today the wings can only carry 20 players, because 3 are on IR and cannot be moved down, that leaves 12 forwards, 6 D-men and 2 goalies.

The Wings do not need Aaron Downey to win, but he sure as hell helps them in the lockerroom, on the bench, great attitude, but if you can replace him with someone who can do more than punch a tomato can, and you are not afraid that the other team is going to be dirty Downey can be in the press box.

BTW great Mayor reference, I love the fact he is on the Red Sox, not for his play but because he is getting a shot at the WS, if any one deserves a championship Sean Casey does, he is the Dallas Drake of the Red Wings for me this year!

[Opie 308]

A long winded answer, but not a very persuasive one.

1. Yes I believe the Wings should win it every year regardless of cap, I mean we have superior leadership that we shouldn't question right? Let alone the best scouts and farm system. Unrealistic

2. Don Cherry is a f***in' douchebag. He knows the game and everything but his ego is beyond assholish. Agreed 100%

3. Agree, Downey has no impact in the playoffs, but an everyday player/fighter such as an in-shape McCarty does. The wings have no access to one, how can they ice a player like that if they do not have one, Milan Lucic isn't jumping ship!

4. I understand the position the Wings are in with IR, etc., just tired of the "hockey doesn't need fighters anymore" bs (not necessarily you). Hockey, due to rule changes is going away from fighting, like it or not.

5. Agree or don't about teams manhandling us out of the playoffs, but everyone else on the planet could see it. Enough for Kenny to finally go get a Downey and a Drake to begin with.

We don't have to agree, I'm just yelling out loud too!

esteef

My answers are bolded:

Point 5

Agree or disagree but what Wing Player was hurt or injured or even knicked up enough by a hit from the other team that cost the Wings the cup that year. Because they didn't win it a year they didn't have an enforcer doesn't mean the lack of enforcer caused them to lose. Otherwise Philly would win every year and they can barely make the playoffs. Everyone assumes the Wings got beat because they got pushed around, but I saw a Calgary team try to push the Wings around even stooping to having the backup netminder take swipes at players, how far did they go in the post season that year?

[Doggy 130]

Why do people think that at any stage Kyle Quincey will get a game in Detroit without having 4 injured defensemen? He had to be traded, or lost for nothing through waivers.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I'd rather have Lebda gone than him, but I guess Quincey is one too many tough players for the Wings to have on the roster.

Typical and unsurprising move here.

Dude- the only reason he's stayed this long is because he's a tough player that plays that roll. The problem is he hasn't stepped up. He didn't taken the oppertunity given to him and run with it.

[Nev 1,085]

Anyone here remember last year when Holland and Co did a horrible job getting this team ready in the preseason, then the trade deadline came and went and he did nothing to help make this team better or get it ready for the post season, then the first round came and game five the Wings were all but dead in the water, getting ready to be owned by the Preds.

I forget how this story ends, can one of you remind me what happened, right because last year I heard all of these same arguments, and at the deadline some of you even said that if the Wings won it last year you wouldn't say these same tired, old things again this year.

Guess what, the wings won and it is the same drivel again, Wings need grit, Wings need toughness, they are acquiring or letting go of the wrong players, they are keeping a too old Cheli, BLAH ******* BLAH BLAH.

Man this is like Ground hog day only the Wings just won the cup.

I love how people on this board think they know so much more than Holland, Babcock, etc.. yet when the national media doesn't say Holland or Babcock are OMG!!!!!!11312171!!!! the Bestest ever half of this board s***s their collective pants, yet most of you on here don't have the faith and trust in the them.

Here is what we can say is a known for the Red Wings, they do the best they can to be a Stanley cup contender every year, not just make the playoffs. They ice the best team possible given the circumstances and the players at their disposal, they bring young players along at just the right time, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were with the big club immediately, Hudler and Flip not as quick but still quicker than say Meech and Quincey. They have an uncanny knack for the player everyone has passed on, Drake and Cleary for example.

Leave the personnel decisions to the people who not only have the job but have been proven very adept at making them, remember how long Hatcher was with this team, must have been salary cap, not that the Wings didn't think he was skilled enough in the right areas to make the team better, no no just s*** luck!

Do you really think they are in an office going:

"Well it would be nice to play an enforcer, the toughness we need, but nah lets be soft, that would be great, that would be something no one would expect!"

Look, I actually agree with the main thrust of your post which may be summed up as "Ken Holland knows what he's doing", but in case its escaped your attention, this is a discussion forum! People come here to talk about the wings, express their opinion etc. Except, it seems, if you want to disagree with a decision by Wings management. And except if you've never played proffesional hockey (not yours that one). Wouldn't leave us much to talk about would it?

Having said that, this "fighter vs no-fighter" argument is getting real old already and the season hasn't even begun. I sense that this will be 2008-2009's Hasek vs Osgood...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I'm confused, we have 22 players, including Quincey. Why does he need to be dealt? Howard gets healthy and gets sent down, McCarty gets healthy and gets his spot and will fight for it with Downey all season long which is exactly what I wanted to see. I just do not understand the need to trade Quincey when we are fine for cap and roster space.

[FinRedWing 172]

I'm confused, we have 22 players, including Quincey. Why does he need to be dealt? Howard gets healthy and gets sent down, McCarty gets healthy and gets his spot and will fight for it with Downey all season long which is exactly what I wanted to see. I just do not understand the need to trade Quincey when we are fine for cap and roster space.

Maybe Kenny is close to trading Quincey for Belak?

I know we'd do it in a heartbeat (and throw 1st and 2nd picks in there too.)

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Maybe Kenny is close to trading Quincey for Belak?

I know we'd do it in a heartbeat (and throw 1st and 2nd picks in there too.)

Now Fin, you know I'd be fine with that.

Bring on the Bealer!!

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

I'm confused, we have 22 players, including Quincey. Why does he need to be dealt? Howard gets healthy and gets sent down, McCarty gets healthy and gets his spot and will fight for it with Downey all season long which is exactly what I wanted to see. I just do not understand the need to trade Quincey when we are fine for cap and roster space.

Pretty sure were above the cap with Quincey on the team. So they need to trade or waive him. Obviously the latter doesn't make too much sense if you can steal a pick from someone.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Having said that, this "fighter vs no-fighter" argument is getting real old already and the season hasn't even begun. I sense that this will be 2008-2009's Hasek vs Osgood...

Damn, I was looking forward to an Osgood/Conklin battle!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Pretty sure were above the cap with Quincey on the team. So they need to trade or waive him. Obviously the latter doesn't make too much sense if you can steal a pick from someone.

Oh we are still over the cap? Damn. My mistake, too bad, I was really looking forward to seeing Quincey on this team.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Where do people come off thinking Quincey is better than Lebda? The only thing he does better than Lebda is throw the body. And he doesnt even do that all that well. I was excited at the prospect of having Quincey around, because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt during the regular season and playoffs when depth additions aren't advisable, but we're talking about a guy who was not as good as NINE other defenseman competing for a spot. We're talking about a guy that looked out of place when he should've been giving his best showing of the past year.

Holland isn't making the choice to trade Quincey. Quincey made himself the obvious choice when he failed to step up his game in over 12 months worth of time.

Edited October 8, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Where do people come off thinking Quincey is better than Lebda? The only thing he does better than Lebda is throw the body. And he doesnt even do that all that well. I was excited at the prospect of having Quincey around, because I was giving him the benefit of the doubt during the regular season and playoffs when depth additions aren't advisable, but we're talking about a guy who was not as good as NINE other defenseman competing for a spot. We're talking about a guy that looked out of place when he shouldn't been giving his best showing of the past year.

Holland isn't making the choice to trade Quincey. Quincey made himself the obvious choice when he failed to step up his game in over 12 months worth of time.

Agree completely. Some people here seem to think because Quincey is "tough", that alone should keep him on the roster. The fact is Quincey was the worst defenseman during the pre-season. Quincey got outplayed by his competition and deserves to go.

[esteef 2,679]

My answers are bolded:

Point 5

Agree or disagree but what Wing Player was hurt or injured or even knicked up enough by a hit from the other team that cost the Wings the cup that year. Because they didn't win it a year they didn't have an enforcer doesn't mean the lack of enforcer caused them to lose. Otherwise Philly would win every year and they can barely make the playoffs. Everyone assumes the Wings got beat because they got pushed around, but I saw a Calgary team try to push the Wings around even stooping to having the backup netminder take swipes at players, how far did they go in the post season that year?

#3. Trade Quincey for one?

Homer getting smacked around with no response has an effect on a team's psyche, just as much as our goalie's getting run with no response. Collectively, no one doing anything hurts the team.

Because teams win it that don't have an enforcer doesn't mean that the lack of an enforcer caused them to win.

esteef

[Doc Holiday 0]

#3. Trade Quincey for one?

Homer getting smacked around with no response has an effect on a team's psyche, just as much as our goalie's getting run with no response. Collectively, no one doing anything hurts the team.

Because teams win it that don't have an enforcer doesn't mean that the lack of an enforcer caused them to win.

esteef

Nvm, I said everything the previous poster said, but you seem to miss the fact that despite homer getting slashed with no response it had no effect on how they did in the series against Calgary. Detroit is a team that doesn't let cheap shots effect them and I think that is much better than the risk of a team gaining some mythical momentum because they are able to crosscheck a player with no resistance. If anything that frustrates a team.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Doc Holiday

[esteef 2,679]

Nvm, I said everything the previous poster said, but you seem to miss the fact that despite homer getting slashed with no response it had no effect on how they did in the series against Calgary. Detroit is a team that doesn't let cheap shots effect them and I think that is much better than the risk of a team gaining some mythical momentum because they are able to crosscheck a player with no resistance. If anything that frustrates a team.

Pretty sure you're talking about Franzen getting slashed by the backup goalie, but again another example. Just like Lebda getting knocked the f*** out by Langkow and Conroy high sticking Homer in the face, both of them missing the next game. Detroit didn't win the Cup that year did they? Nope, but we did get to enjoy Homer getting plastered up against the boards by Pronger in the Anaheim series though as the Wings struggled to keep players in the lineup.

It's called "Imposing Your Will" and other teams know if the Wings can't stop it, their doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!

esteef

[HenryMalredo 2]

Pretty sure you're talking about Franzen getting slashed by the backup goalie, but again another example. Just like Lebda getting knocked the f*** out by Langkow and Conroy high sticking Homer in the face, both of them missing the next game. Detroit didn't win the Cup that year did they? Nope, but we did get to enjoy Homer getting plastered up against the boards by Pronger in the Anaheim series though as the Wings struggled to keep players in the lineup.

It's called "Imposing Your Will" and other teams know if the Wings can't stop it, their doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!

esteef

Whats an enforcer gonna do in situations like that? You got a guy like Pronger, who's gonna throw cheap shots, but he's a star and doesn't often drop the gloves. He's not gonna waste his time with some border-line NHL enforcer, and he's not gonna be scared.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Whats an enforcer gonna do in situations like that? You got a guy like Pronger, who's gonna throw cheap shots, but he's a star and doesn't often drop the gloves. He's not gonna waste his time with some border-line NHL enforcer, and he's not gonna be scared.

Reason I'll miss Drake. Unfortunately, Pronger didnt take a cheapshot at anyone while he was here. Because Drake would've ran his head so far into the boards he'd know all of the information on the drivers license of the guy sitting in the front row.

But I do think an enforcer stops cheapshots, to an extent. Pronger is gonna do his thing because he's 6'5 and gets 60 points a year as a defenceman. He does what he pleases, but we have guys that can give it back to him. Doesnt have to be an enforcer, but if they go in first, usually ends up better. I mean, would we want Datsyuk throwing punches at Pronger? Of course not. (Even though that'd be friggin awesome.)

[ruarc' 2]

Whats an enforcer gonna do in situations like that? You got a guy like Pronger, who's gonna throw cheap shots, but he's a star and doesn't often drop the gloves. He's not gonna waste his time with some border-line NHL enforcer, and he's not gonna be scared.

it's more of "an eye for an eye" mentality. you take a run at one of mine and i'll put one of yours through the boards.

i agree though. Pronger = Total ******

[Grim 5]

Reason I'll miss Drake. Unfortunately, Pronger didnt take a cheapshot at anyone while he was here. Because Drake would've ran his head so far into the boards he'd know all of the information on the drivers license of the guy sitting in the front row.

Drake was an enforcer?? btw, bad example with Pronger... Drake was his teammate in St. Lou far longer than he was with anyone here in the D.